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PVE is too Easy
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DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?
Being able to slaughter everything in a couple of seconds without the faintest hint of danger isn't that interesting or fun to me though. And that is quite a long way from being ultra competitive and professional.
I'm not suggesting that they increase the difficulty of the landscape enemies to rival those you would encounter in a veteran dungeon. But it would be nice if they posed enough of a threat that they could actually fight back or make bringing a friend along worthwhile. It would also make exploring Tamriel more interesting if you had to stay aware of your surroundings and be at least somewhat careful. That would help bring the environments more to life.
I don't disagree with you, but I can't handle 90% of what's out there now. Crank up the difficulty, especially for very poor or completely inexperienced players hardly seems fair and it would drive away new players. Just a thought. Not a criticism.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?
Being able to slaughter everything in a couple of seconds without the faintest hint of danger isn't that interesting or fun to me though. And that is quite a long way from being ultra competitive and professional.
I'm not suggesting that they increase the difficulty of the landscape enemies to rival those you would encounter in a veteran dungeon. But it would be nice if they posed enough of a threat that they could actually fight back or make bringing a friend along worthwhile. It would also make exploring Tamriel more interesting if you had to stay aware of your surroundings and be at least somewhat careful. That would help bring the environments more to life.
I don't disagree with you, but I can't handle 90% of what's out there now. Crank up the difficulty, especially for very poor or completely inexperienced players hardly seems fair and it would drive away new players. Just a thought. Not a criticism.
Someone suggested having a difficulty setting. That might be worth looking into. Or maybe they could make certain instances of the zone more difficult than others so players could choose which one was right for them.
I'm sure they could come up with something reasonable if they tried and a solution that would work for both of us.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes but this would not be an starting zone, it would assume you done silver and gold first or other stuff to bring you up towards cp200 at this point you would you will have an crafted set and an overland one, main expense is the materials for the crafted set.After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?
Being able to slaughter everything in a couple of seconds without the faintest hint of danger isn't that interesting or fun to me though. And that is quite a long way from being ultra competitive and professional.
I'm not suggesting that they increase the difficulty of the landscape enemies to rival those you would encounter in a veteran dungeon. But it would be nice if they posed enough of a threat that they could actually fight back or make bringing a friend along worthwhile. It would also make exploring Tamriel more interesting if you had to stay aware of your surroundings and be at least somewhat careful. That would help bring the environments more to life.
I don't disagree with you, but I can't handle 90% of what's out there now. Crank up the difficulty, especially for very poor or completely inexperienced players hardly seems fair and it would drive away new players. Just a thought. Not a criticism.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?
Being able to slaughter everything in a couple of seconds without the faintest hint of danger isn't that interesting or fun to me though. And that is quite a long way from being ultra competitive and professional.
I'm not suggesting that they increase the difficulty of the landscape enemies to rival those you would encounter in a veteran dungeon. But it would be nice if they posed enough of a threat that they could actually fight back or make bringing a friend along worthwhile. It would also make exploring Tamriel more interesting if you had to stay aware of your surroundings and be at least somewhat careful. That would help bring the environments more to life.
I don't disagree with you, but I can't handle 90% of what's out there now. Crank up the difficulty, especially for very poor or completely inexperienced players hardly seems fair and it would drive away new players. Just a thought. Not a criticism.
Someone suggested having a difficulty setting. That might be worth looking into. Or maybe they could make certain instances of the zone more difficult than others so players could choose which one was right for them.
I'm sure they could come up with something reasonable if they tried and a solution that would work for both of us.
That makes sense. I thought the latest updates set the world encounters to the level of the player though. Am I wrong? I can still remember that damnable crab when first played a dark elf. Thing just slaughtered me.
Oh well. I need to reinstall and start again. I just ended up with 80 odd gb on my PS4. It took up way too much room.0 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yes - once upon a time if you tried taking a level 15 character to Bangkorai, you would get your backside handed to you on a silver platter. Enemies were truly above your level.Bladerunner1 wrote: »There was a time when a group of three overland bears who were 8 levels higher than you could maybe kill you. Those were the days. Years ago I spent so much time plunging into territory I had no business being in that by the time I tried my first group dungeon it was a breeze.
Now the hardest content is pugging a vet DLC dungeon. There's a chance you'll be paired with unprepared people who've spent hours grinding easy-to-kill overland junk mobs.
If you went back to Bangkorai at level 48 after starting the Coldharbour zone, you could kill anything and everything that crossed your path.
One Tamriel ruined the fun and challenge of choosing the level and difficulty of overland enemies.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭disintegr8 wrote: »
Yes - once upon a time if you tried taking a level 15 character to Bangkorai, you would get your backside handed to you on a silver platter. Enemies were truly above your level.Bladerunner1 wrote: »There was a time when a group of three overland bears who were 8 levels higher than you could maybe kill you. Those were the days. Years ago I spent so much time plunging into territory I had no business being in that by the time I tried my first group dungeon it was a breeze.
Now the hardest content is pugging a vet DLC dungeon. There's a chance you'll be paired with unprepared people who've spent hours grinding easy-to-kill overland junk mobs.
If you went back to Bangkorai at level 48 after starting the Coldharbour zone, you could kill anything and everything that crossed your path.
One Tamriel ruined the fun and challenge of choosing the level and difficulty of overland enemies.
One Tamriel ruined alot of things.0 -
WhoSlappedThePie✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
Yes - once upon a time if you tried taking a level 15 character to Bangkorai, you would get your backside handed to you on a silver platter. Enemies were truly above your level.Bladerunner1 wrote: »There was a time when a group of three overland bears who were 8 levels higher than you could maybe kill you. Those were the days. Years ago I spent so much time plunging into territory I had no business being in that by the time I tried my first group dungeon it was a breeze.
Now the hardest content is pugging a vet DLC dungeon. There's a chance you'll be paired with unprepared people who've spent hours grinding easy-to-kill overland junk mobs.
If you went back to Bangkorai at level 48 after starting the Coldharbour zone, you could kill anything and everything that crossed your path.
One Tamriel ruined the fun and challenge of choosing the level and difficulty of overland enemies.
One Tamriel ruined alot of things.
It also made some things better. I can farm anywhere now without needing to do Cadwells quests."It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop."
Current Toons (Max CP):
Magsorc Breton
Magblade Darkelf
Stam DK Redguard
Healer Templar High Elf
Tank DK Argonian
Stamblade Redguard
Completed: vHoF | vMoL | vSO | vSO HM | vAA | vAA HM | vHR | vHR HM | vMA | vDSA3 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the idea of a higher difficulty if it is incorporated sensibly into the world.
This has been suggested many times, but something like a debuff akin to Battle Spirit that halves all your stats that you can get by making a bargain with a Daedric Prince (most naturally, the Prince of Bargains, Clavicus Vile). In return, while having this debuff, you can get better or unique loot. Something like the Tel Var system would be neat. This system could also be easily expanded to include dailies, like completing specific delves or dungeons with the debuff active.
Only problem I foresee is when somebody without the debuff helps you kill something. If that disables your loot bonus, it could be the source for griefing and kill-stealing, if it doesn't, it basically allows circumventing the whole idea by teaming up with a non-debuffed friend.disintegr8 wrote: »
Yes - once upon a time if you tried taking a level 15 character to Bangkorai, you would get your backside handed to you on a silver platter. Enemies were truly above your level.Bladerunner1 wrote: »There was a time when a group of three overland bears who were 8 levels higher than you could maybe kill you. Those were the days. Years ago I spent so much time plunging into territory I had no business being in that by the time I tried my first group dungeon it was a breeze.
Now the hardest content is pugging a vet DLC dungeon. There's a chance you'll be paired with unprepared people who've spent hours grinding easy-to-kill overland junk mobs.
If you went back to Bangkorai at level 48 after starting the Coldharbour zone, you could kill anything and everything that crossed your path.
One Tamriel ruined the fun and challenge of choosing the level and difficulty of overland enemies.
You never could chose, if you fought an enemy 10 levels above yours you outright missed 50% of the time regardless how good you were, and outside your level range you didn't get any rewards. That's really an issue and why the old vet zones failed so hard, if there isn't a substantially better reward, a harder difficulty just steals your time. ZOS got the right idea with normal/vet/hardmode group content, let's hope they don't regress.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.3 -
seedubsrun✭✭✭✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?
Being able to slaughter everything in a couple of seconds without the faintest hint of danger isn't that interesting or fun to me though. And that is quite a long way from being ultra competitive and professional.
I'm not suggesting that they increase the difficulty of the landscape enemies to rival those you would encounter in a veteran dungeon. But it would be nice if they posed enough of a threat that they could actually fight back or make bringing a friend along worthwhile. It would also make exploring Tamriel more interesting if you had to stay aware of your surroundings and be at least somewhat careful. That would help bring the environments more to life.
I don't disagree with you, but I can't handle 90% of what's out there now. Crank up the difficulty, especially for very poor or completely inexperienced players hardly seems fair and it would drive away new players. Just a thought. Not a criticism.
I completely support higher difficulty for overland and questing content but only if it comes as an option. There's definitely still plenty of players struggling to get there bearings out there and it wouldn't be right to screw them over. An option though would be fantastic. I like the idea of it being Battle Spirit like. That would probably be easier to implement as the effects would be character based not mob based. This game doesn't give new players much info on how to become the powerful character they want to be. Another example of the need for a proving ground type system.
C'mon back though DenMoria! There's plenty of people here that would be happy to help get you where you want to be.0 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh sure, it can become quite easy in trials when you have 2 healers constantly spamming healing, a tank or two doing what a tank suppose to do and 8-9 hard-hitting dpses. Yeah, it can't be too hard with a big group, even going against world boss pits and vet dungeons. Also, sure, most overland contents of PvE and questing are quite easy. However, go ahead and solo world boss pits such as the gargoyle boss pit in Rivenspire, Rageclaw in Eastmarch, or the Bittegreen guar in Deshaan, for example, or the DLC's world boss pit like Looming Shadow and the Arena in the Gold Coast or the Mad Ogre pit in Wrothgar.. just to spout out a few more out of many. See how easy PvE is then..
By the way, PvE isn't so easy for new players with no CP. Even dolmen, public and group dungeons are a bit harder for those under 200 CPish (sololy.) With 300 CP and above, sure, you can solo those contents comfortably. Again.. try soloing those world boss pits I mentioned above, even if you are maxed CP. I assure you this part of PvE isn't so easy.Edited by GreenhaloX on September 1, 2017 1:02PM1 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?
Being able to slaughter everything in a couple of seconds without the faintest hint of danger isn't that interesting or fun to me though. And that is quite a long way from being ultra competitive and professional.
I'm not suggesting that they increase the difficulty of the landscape enemies to rival those you would encounter in a veteran dungeon. But it would be nice if they posed enough of a threat that they could actually fight back or make bringing a friend along worthwhile. It would also make exploring Tamriel more interesting if you had to stay aware of your surroundings and be at least somewhat careful. That would help bring the environments more to life.
I was going to type a response to @DenMoria but @Jeremy said exactly what I was going to say.
Also, hang in there Denmoria, there's a lot of great things in this game, especially for a newer or casual player.Edited by Zardayne on September 1, 2017 1:01PM0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭GreenhaloX wrote: »Oh sure, it can become quite easy in trials when you have 2 healers constantly spamming healing, a tank or two doing what a tank suppose to do and 8-9 hard-hitting dpses. Yeah, it can't be too hard with a big group, even going against world boss pits and vet dungeons. Also, sure, most overland contents of PvE and questing are quite easy. However, go ahead and solo world boss pits such as the gargoyle boss pit in Rivenspire, Rageclaw in Eastmarch, or the Bittegreen guar in Deshaan, for example, or the DLC's world boss pit like Looming Shadow and the Arena in the Gold Coast or the Mad Ogre pit in Wrothgar.. just to spout out a few more out of many. See how easy PvE is then..
By the way, PvE isn't so easy for new players with no CP. Even dolmen, public and group dungeons are a bit harder for those under 200 CPish (sololy.) With 300 CP and above, sure, you can solo those contents comfortably. Again.. try soloing those world boss pits I mentioned above, even if you are maxed CP. I assure you this part of PvE isn't so easy.
I've come to understand that it's not that easy for newer players. Even when I make a new character with no cp I still know the mechanics so it's still easy to me. I just wish there was a happy medium.
Sure, the world bosses were just recently beefed up and made more challenging. In the beginning most were easily done with a friend. When you got some cp everyone was soloing most of them (Except Wrothgar).Wrothgar's wold bosses were done right from the get go. Of course as a veteran player I'm not going to just run around overland zones killing world bosses until the next expansion comes out with a new dungeon. It's like running the same dungeons over and over. It would get old pretty quick. Now if you sprinkled in some mobile and/or random world bosses or even lesser strength champion mobs throughout each it might make it worthwhile for vet players to come back to these zones to hunt and kill these beasts. Right now, you know where these "pits" are and the mobs just stand there waiting waiting to be killed. Where's the excitement and adventure in that? Couldn't they have left the marker off the map at least so you could have accidentally ran into them and startled you a bit..
Semi off topic but it does relate to the ease of overland and delves, there's just too much hand holding in MMOs these days. I mean damn..get a quest, open your map, and walah..there's the marker telling you where your objective is. This is fine in the starter zones but come on..Edited by Zardayne on September 1, 2017 2:26PM1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I like the idea of a higher difficulty if it is incorporated sensibly into the world.
This has been suggested many times, but something like a debuff akin to Battle Spirit that halves all your stats that you can get by making a bargain with a Daedric Prince (most naturally, the Prince of Bargains, Clavicus Vile). In return, while having this debuff, you can get better or unique loot. Something like the Tel Var system would be neat. This system could also be easily expanded to include dailies, like completing specific delves or dungeons with the debuff active.
Only problem I foresee is when somebody without the debuff helps you kill something. If that disables your loot bonus, it could be the source for griefing and kill-stealing, if it doesn't, it basically allows circumventing the whole idea by teaming up with a non-debuffed friend.disintegr8 wrote: »
Yes - once upon a time if you tried taking a level 15 character to Bangkorai, you would get your backside handed to you on a silver platter. Enemies were truly above your level.Bladerunner1 wrote: »There was a time when a group of three overland bears who were 8 levels higher than you could maybe kill you. Those were the days. Years ago I spent so much time plunging into territory I had no business being in that by the time I tried my first group dungeon it was a breeze.
Now the hardest content is pugging a vet DLC dungeon. There's a chance you'll be paired with unprepared people who've spent hours grinding easy-to-kill overland junk mobs.
If you went back to Bangkorai at level 48 after starting the Coldharbour zone, you could kill anything and everything that crossed your path.
One Tamriel ruined the fun and challenge of choosing the level and difficulty of overland enemies.
You never could chose, if you fought an enemy 10 levels above yours you outright missed 50% of the time regardless how good you were, and outside your level range you didn't get any rewards. That's really an issue and why the old vet zones failed so hard, if there isn't a substantially better reward, a harder difficulty just steals your time. ZOS got the right idea with normal/vet/hardmode group content, let's hope they don't regress.
Exactly - taking longer and being challenging are two very different things. The former can be achieved in a non-instanced zone but the latter cannot because more than just debuffs are required.
Consider what happens to a single ogre fight is you have the rune cage iirc and DOTs. freeze it and wail away not breaking the freeze. The fact that it takes longer because you do less dmg is irrelevant. or same thing but add in better heals and regen and invis etc...
you need more mechanics and variety of threats to challenge fully unlocked characters - not just debuffs.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭I like the idea of a higher difficulty if it is incorporated sensibly into the world.
This has been suggested many times, but something like a debuff akin to Battle Spirit that halves all your stats that you can get by making a bargain with a Daedric Prince (most naturally, the Prince of Bargains, Clavicus Vile). In return, while having this debuff, you can get better or unique loot. Something like the Tel Var system would be neat. This system could also be easily expanded to include dailies, like completing specific delves or dungeons with the debuff active.
Only problem I foresee is when somebody without the debuff helps you kill something. If that disables your loot bonus, it could be the source for griefing and kill-stealing, if it doesn't, it basically allows circumventing the whole idea by teaming up with a non-debuffed friend.disintegr8 wrote: »
Yes - once upon a time if you tried taking a level 15 character to Bangkorai, you would get your backside handed to you on a silver platter. Enemies were truly above your level.Bladerunner1 wrote: »There was a time when a group of three overland bears who were 8 levels higher than you could maybe kill you. Those were the days. Years ago I spent so much time plunging into territory I had no business being in that by the time I tried my first group dungeon it was a breeze.
Now the hardest content is pugging a vet DLC dungeon. There's a chance you'll be paired with unprepared people who've spent hours grinding easy-to-kill overland junk mobs.
If you went back to Bangkorai at level 48 after starting the Coldharbour zone, you could kill anything and everything that crossed your path.
One Tamriel ruined the fun and challenge of choosing the level and difficulty of overland enemies.
You never could chose, if you fought an enemy 10 levels above yours you outright missed 50% of the time regardless how good you were, and outside your level range you didn't get any rewards. That's really an issue and why the old vet zones failed so hard, if there isn't a substantially better reward, a harder difficulty just steals your time. ZOS got the right idea with normal/vet/hardmode group content, let's hope they don't regress.
Exactly - taking longer and being challenging are two very different things. The former can be achieved in a non-instanced zone but the latter cannot because more than just debuffs are required.
Consider what happens to a single ogre fight is you have the rune cage iirc and DOTs. freeze it and wail away not breaking the freeze. The fact that it takes longer because you do less dmg is irrelevant. or same thing but add in better heals and regen and invis etc...
you need more mechanics and variety of threats to challenge fully unlocked characters - not just debuffs.
good point0 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭There seems to be a delicate balance between things like
build diversity
armor sets (and set bonuses)
unique skills
character development in general
On the one hand we would love for everything to be ... equally efficient - at least within certain game modes (PvP, trials etc).
On the other hand we'll make sure we use the best combination of all. If things like our mana or stamina sustain is changed we cry foul. "They" just want everything to take longer and us buying things from a store most likely. For convenience of course lest someone brings up P2W.
How many threads are there about the change to T1 - "my character feels less powerful the more I level" and similar?
If someone posts a "fun" build they get booed into oblivion because they are not using the right skills etc etc.
Now I might be totally wrong, but to me MMO's are about character development, story, farming, crafting etc when it comes to solo play. Then there are solo challenges for sure, can even be jumping puzzles or the like.
Different challenges apply to group content, coordination etc and similar for diverse PvP content from duels to battlegrounds.
Personally I always used to like being able to draw a huge crowd of mobs with a tank character and methodically mow them down. There are limited options here.
Anyways ... long story short, I think the biggest indication is that "harder" maps used to exist but are no more.
Of course I am intrigued by the idea of dangerous bands of mobs roaming around, the smell of adventure. We actually have the odd away-team of daedra beaming down. "Dynamic quests" sounded good in another universe - and it was fun for a bit, until the best chains are figured out and farmed and you download timers to port from one to the next.
So in essence - will my character just feel weaker, or will I feel even further pigeonholed into a certain build/rotation. Will it be fun or a nuisance after the third time?Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett1 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭GreenhaloX wrote: »Oh sure, it can become quite easy in trials when you have 2 healers constantly spamming healing, a tank or two doing what a tank suppose to do and 8-9 hard-hitting dpses. Yeah, it can't be too hard with a big group, even going against world boss pits and vet dungeons. Also, sure, most overland contents of PvE and questing are quite easy. However, go ahead and solo world boss pits such as the gargoyle boss pit in Rivenspire, Rageclaw in Eastmarch, or the Bittegreen guar in Deshaan, for example, or the DLC's world boss pit like Looming Shadow and the Arena in the Gold Coast or the Mad Ogre pit in Wrothgar.. just to spout out a few more out of many. See how easy PvE is then..
By the way, PvE isn't so easy for new players with no CP. Even dolmen, public and group dungeons are a bit harder for those under 200 CPish (sololy.) With 300 CP and above, sure, you can solo those contents comfortably. Again.. try soloing those world boss pits I mentioned above, even if you are maxed CP. I assure you this part of PvE isn't so easy.
I've come to understand that it's not that easy for newer players. Even when I make a new character with no cp I still know the mechanics so it's still easy to me. I just wish there was a happy medium.
Sure, the world bosses were just recently beefed up and made more challenging. In the beginning most were easily done with a friend. When you got some cp everyone was soloing most of them (Except Wrothgar).Wrothgar's wold bosses were done right from the get go. Of course as a veteran player I'm not going to just run around overland zones killing world bosses until the next expansion comes out with a new dungeon. It's like running the same dungeons over and over. It would get old pretty quick. Now if you sprinkled in some mobile and/or random world bosses or even lesser strength champion mobs throughout each it might make it worthwhile for vet players to come back to these zones to hunt and kill these beasts. Right now, you know where these "pits" are and the mobs just stand there waiting waiting to be killed. Where's the excitement and adventure in that? Couldn't they have left the marker off the map at least so you could have accidentally ran into them and startled you a bit..
Semi off topic but it does relate to the ease of overland and delves, there's just too much hand holding in MMOs these days. I mean damn..get a quest, open your map, and walah..there's the marker telling you where your objective is. This is fine in the starter zones but come on..
Well.. prior to Morrowind patch, I would've agreed with you more that (overall) PvE is easy (for veterans and higher CP bracket.) However, with Morrowind patch with resistance, resources, and dps skillsets nerfed down with crappy shield for stam toons, a lot of contents within PvE isn't that much of a cake walk anymore. Since (aside from the normal overland adds and trash mobs), bosses and even adds at world boss pits, dolmen, and public and group dungeons are hitting harder and packing more heat. Again, sure, with a group of 3 or more, any PvE contents can be easy, even now. However, sololy, even for a veteran dude with maxed CP and years of experiences (and as you had mentioned challenging) certain contents as I have mentioned can be a bit challenging as any new players or newcomers going through the game and leveling for the first time.
Yes, being on the game for a while now and been around the block a few times, I have knocked out pretty much everything within the game (except for the current Reach stuff) with my first/original toon like any other long time ESO gamers. So yes, I don't make it a habit either repeatedly hitting every world boss pits and dungeons over and over again. However, with 14 character slots and 14 toons, there are a lot of leveling up. I'm not a grinder or farmer, i.e. bears, dreugh, skyreach, whatever for xp or whatnot. For me, leveling up 14 toons (actually 18 cause I had committed toon suicides four times and re-creating new toons four different times) and grabbing whatever xp as I roll along and through all the zones and map areas unlocking whatever to get the xp, a big part is doing the dailies, undaunted and hitting just those world boss pits in Wrothgar and the Gold Coast. These world boss dailies give the 18.5 bonus xp, and with enlightenment, that is 74k bonus a piece. So for me, yes, I am hitting just these DLC world bosses over and over again for the huge bonus xp, and it doesn't matter if there are other peeps there, I'll hit those pits sololy if I have to. Heck, a lot of times there was only one other toon with me going at it in the Looming Shadow, the Arena or any of the other Wrothgar boss pits. We get through it, but not a cake walk or being considered as easy.
Yeah, sure.. again, if anyone is just romping around and through the overland PvE areas and just hitting the normal adds and trash mobs and not really hitting those contents I have mentioned; oh sure, PvE can be considered as easy. Particularly, in a group or mass of players, even a brand spanking new player just spitted out from Coldharbour will fair just fine when there are mass of others hitting the same world boss pit, dolmen or delve as well. However, without engaging those world boss pits, dolmens and dungeons even sololy, or at least with another toon (especially when the other toon is well below 200 CP), I can't agree wholeheartledly with someone who says that, overall, PvE to be considered easy.0
