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Shold ZoS Include an Indirect Damage Type?
Avran_Sylt
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This would encompass skills that are "Fire-and-Forget" such as Caltrops, Volley, Wall of elements, Poison injection poison, Twin Slashes Bleed, Rend Ultimate, etc. and allow them to apply various balances appropriately while also eliminating odd inconsistencies such as the Nerien'eth Set not proccing off of abilities that appear to be direct damage (such as caltrops, volley).
It would also allow them to address things such as this:
Weapon
Bow
Poison Injection (Poison Arrow morph): This morph will now recalculate its damage over time each time it ticks. This fixes the issue where the execute damage was not updating as the target gained or lost health, but also means the tick value can increase or decrease if your stats change while it’s active.
The poison could be categorized as an Indirect "fire-and-forget" DoT effect that will only have stats from when it was applied and the enemies current debuffs, rather than recalculated it with your stats every tick. This would also be true of things such as volley and Wall of elements.
Edited by Avran_Sylt on August 28, 2017 7:46PM It would also allow them to address things such as this:
Weapon
Bow
Poison Injection (Poison Arrow morph): This morph will now recalculate its damage over time each time it ticks. This fixes the issue where the execute damage was not updating as the target gained or lost health, but also means the tick value can increase or decrease if your stats change while it’s active.
The poison could be categorized as an Indirect "fire-and-forget" DoT effect that will only have stats from when it was applied and the enemies current debuffs, rather than recalculated it with your stats every tick. This would also be true of things such as volley and Wall of elements.
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DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭^^^^^Edited by DeadlyRecluse on August 28, 2017 7:51PMThrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other than the initial damage from Razor Caltrops it is not direct damage. Your comment is Caltrops do not proc Nerienth and it should not, other than that initial hit of the Razor morph since it should be direct damage.
Further, a huge assumption is made that classifying would change anything. The issue with Poison Injection would not have been solved with the idea presented. It was most likely in coding that had absolutely nothing to do with the damage type but more having to do with it being an execute.
So would be pointless, and probably more problematic, creating a needless additional damage type.
BTW, Dots applied are fire an forget as it is. Fire it, the dot goes out and stays there if ground based and if it is something that is applied to a target it remains for it's full duration unless cleansed.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Danksta @DeadlyRecluse @Oakmontowls_ESO
Partially, yes. However the current DoTs can be influenced by stat changes. Indirect Dots should not be influenced by stat changes.Edited by Avran_Sylt on August 28, 2017 8:01PM0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Except for dots like Flurry, Rapid Fire, Soul Assault, Templars Jesus Beam, most channeled abilities.
These are classified as DoTs, but I would classify them as Direct Dots. whereas things such as Volley would be an Indirect DoTEdited by Avran_Sylt on August 28, 2017 7:59PM0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I get what you are saying now. I do agree that it would be beneficial to sort damage into channeled skills vs. "true" DoTs (what you are calling indirect dots) vs. direct damage, but my guess is that DoTs and channels are somewhat inextricable on the back end.
Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@DeadlyRecluse
Yeah, that's the unfortunate part.
Indirect would also cover things such as daedric mines, Rearming trap, etc.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Except for dots like Flurry, Rapid Fire, Soul Assault, Templars Jesus Beam, most channeled abilities.
These are classified as DoTs, but I would classify them as Direct Dots. whereas things such as Volley would be an Indirect DoT
It would not. Direct damage in ESO is defined as non dot damage. Dots, by definition in ESO should not be direct damage. With CP that is the difference between Thaumaturge and Master-at-Arms. And your assumption that is will fix anything is that, an assumption that is based on a false premise which I explained before.
You need to understand some of the basics in this game to make these kinds of suggestions.
EDIT: Doubling the type of damage in the manner OP suggests does not provide any assurances the problems that we have seen would be corrected. In the response OP made that is quoted in this post ignores my previous statement that problems like Poison Injection is not relevant to the discussion since the issue was clearly due to other factors, most likely something having to do with it being an execute.
Besides Zos apparently fixing it without adding another damage type, OP does not actually offer a solution. He does not understand how the database powering the game is organized and as such the suggestion is nothing more than change for the sake of change.Edited by idk on August 28, 2017 8:49PM0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Right, so I was talking to a friend who knew a bit more about MMO's than I do, and he brought up the concept of Snapshots for abilities that was used in WoW. And I think I can make a much more coherent post with this information
peruse old content if you wish:Right, let me lay this out a little more clearly for you:
I do not think this will fix anything. Honestly, it's gonna break a lot of things until it all gets reordered and standardized.
The reason I make this suggestion is that the basics in this game are broken and poorly defined. I suggest this for the sake of consistency and clarity
Look at the Twin Slashes Bleed: Single Target, Fire and Forget. DoT, shows as Orange Combat Text (DoT)
When swapping to another bar the damage of the applied Bleed does not change. The Bleed functions in a manner I would attribute to an Indirect DoT as the bleed is an open wound on the enemy. This makes sense.
Look at Soul Assault: Single Target, Is not Fire and Forget. shows as Orange Text (DoT)
When Swapping Bars (In this case used the Domihaus set for weapon Damage Increase/Decrease) the damage does not recalculate. It seems that this is a Direct DoT, so this does not make sense, as while the player is getting buffed the damage is not recalculated even though the source (the player) is changing.
Look At Volley: AoE, Fire and Forget.shows as White Combat Text (Direct Damage). When Swapping to another bar the damage of each tick will change to reflect your current stats. (Inconsistent with the Bleed DoT). This should function as an indirect DoT as the fired barrage of arrows is the source of damage. But with it changing based on the player stats it doesn't make sense, as buffs from an uninvolved source is impacting its damage.
Look at the New Poison Injection: Single Target, Fire and Forget. Swapping to another bar will reflect that bars stats. (Inconsistent with the bleed DoT, Consistent with the Volley DoT).
Look at Caltrops: AoE, Fire and Forget. Swapping to another bar will reflect the bars stats. (Inconsistent with the bleed DoT, Consistent with the Volley DoT).
Look at Rapid Fire: Single Target, Is not Fire and Forget. When gaining weapon damage (through domihaus), does not recalculate.
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talking w/friend, realize how much inconsistency there us with DoTs in this game. Learned about snapshops, etc.0
