Today's Patch and Maw

Reverb · August 2017

Maw of the Infernal had finally, finally become relevant. That summoned beast had been wrecking things in group content, and I had guildmates actually farming for it this weekend, for the first time ever. Now, if I'm reading the patch notes right, it was only strong because it could crit, which has now been reverted. Is that right?

Item Sets
Fixed an issue where the enchantments on some older PvP sets were dealing significantly higher Oblivion and Flame Damage than intended.
Fixed an issue where Item Sets that summon monsters could critically strike

This is both funny and sad.

theamazingx · August 2017

That's correct. They neutered an entertaining set that performed decently at best in some trial environments, and a handful of sets no one actually uses along with it.

B A L A N C E

Tyrion87 · August 2017

Pretty much yes... in that case I won't be farming/using it.

But replacing the first bonus (max health) with max magicka would make this set viable again imo. The same goes for Nerien'eth.

SammyFable · August 2017

Well, seeing as Gilliamtherogue has shown that Maw beats a set like Kra'ghs for it's DPS alone on a stam character, you'll agree, that Maw was overperforming, right?.

Reverb · August 2017

SammyFable wrote: »

Well, seeing as Gilliamtherogue has shown that Maw beats a set like Kra'ghs for it's DPS alone on a stam character, you'll agree, that Maw was overperforming, right?.

Not necessarily. Your case is "something beats something else, so it must be overperforming". It's when something is notable better than every other option in its category or role that it is clearly overperforming.

theamazingx · August 2017

SammyFable wrote: »

Well, seeing as Gilliamtherogue has shown that Maw beats a set like Kra'ghs for it's DPS alone on a stam character, you'll agree, that Maw was overperforming, right?.

On a stationary dummy, yes. In practice, many fights have those overgrown alligators spending more time running around like a chicken with their head cut off than actually hitting stuff.

I tried it out, thought it'd be fun. With perfect weaving it was mediocre on Zhaj and abysmal on the Twins. Then it seemed he had more of a taste for assassins than Rakkhat or the hulk.

SammyFable · August 2017

Ok, I get your point, but it's not like Maw is a stam set. It's a mag set. As a mag set you normally wouldn't even consider it on a stamina character. Seeing, that it's hits harder, even though it doesn't benefit from your highest recource pool (as a magicka based pet, it only benefits from high max magicka) or your CP distribution, doesn't seem right.

And of course, being a proc set it should have lost it's ability to crit with the rest of the proc sets back in January with the Homestead patch.

theamazingx · August 2017

Maybe heavy weaving builds would have a better time controlling it, but limiting it to them would improve diversity, wouldn't it? Also, they chain lightning on Mage, so not even an option there.

hydrocynus · August 2017

Reverb wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

Well, seeing as Gilliamtherogue has shown that Maw beats a set like Kra'ghs for it's DPS alone on a stam character, you'll agree, that Maw was overperforming, right?.

Not necessarily. Your case is "something beats something else, so it must be overperforming". It's when something is notable better than every other option in its category or role that it is clearly overperforming.

Its a magic set that beat a stam set on a stam toon. That I think is clearly over preforming.

theamazingx · August 2017

hydrocynus wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

Well, seeing as Gilliamtherogue has shown that Maw beats a set like Kra'ghs for it's DPS alone on a stam character, you'll agree, that Maw was overperforming, right?.

Not necessarily. Your case is "something beats something else, so it must be overperforming". It's when something is notable better than every other option in its category or role that it is clearly overperforming.

Its a magic set that beat a stam set on a stam toon. That I think is clearly over preforming.

It's not a mag set any more than Red Mountain is.

Masel · August 2017

hydrocynus wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

Well, seeing as Gilliamtherogue has shown that Maw beats a set like Kra'ghs for it's DPS alone on a stam character, you'll agree, that Maw was overperforming, right?.

Not necessarily. Your case is "something beats something else, so it must be overperforming". It's when something is notable better than every other option in its category or role that it is clearly overperforming.

Its a magic set that beat a stam set on a stam toon. That I think is clearly over preforming.

I don't use kragh for the same reason I don't use maw in raids, because it's not practical. In a lot of fights you can use it and it will do it's job fine, but in many fights both are weaker than others. Kragh misses quite a lot due to the very small radius and maw is only viable in pretty static fights. It's not op in any sort of way, even with it being able to critically strike... A fix where there was no need for one.

I wish they'd rather fix endless hail being empowered by the front bar infused trait than things like this.

WuffyCerulei · August 2017

This shouldn't be a huge issue. The beast is apart of a proc and shouldn't be able to crit.

SirMewser · August 2017

I'm sorry but for me the Daedroth was performing as good as a skill, he was dealing 13k crits on my sorc where; vulnerability, daedric prey, major breach, and crusher enchant was up most of the time.

No one has yet to mention the fact that these summoned proc sets scale with CP and major/minor bonuses now, only the fact that it can crit was ever mentioned with a quote from the patch notes, no one has actually tried it after the fix.

Don't use it if you don't like it, it still hits strong and profits from group utilities more than it ever did prior to HotR and for that, I am not giving up because of a wall of text stating a reasonable fix.

No other sets (should) crit.

the_man_of_steal · August 2017

SammyFable wrote: »

Well, seeing as Gilliamtherogue has shown that Maw beats a set like Kra'ghs for it's DPS alone on a stam character, you'll agree, that Maw was overperforming, right?.

I actually would disagree and would use Gilliam's own video mentioning Maw to do so.

Gilliam notes that the pet can be CCed and can stand in AOE. I also believe the pet can be interrupted alla the dwermer from Engine Guardian. My conclusion would therefore be even with the crit, the Maw monster set was not BIS but certainly a viable option especially for Mag DKs (which Zos should have made the Maw burning normal burning and not pet burning as a fix).

idk · August 2017

It was great while it lasted, however, we all knew this was unintended and would be corrected. The only monster set that could crit was clearly not going to last.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

You are mixing issues. Monster (proc) sets no longer crit. Maw got a damage buff when they reworked sets this patch. Even without critting, it is outperforming other go to sets like ilambris or grothdarr (which dont crit either). Maw is pretty strong right now. It is doing as much as 4k DPS in some fights, which is a lot. The problem is that the daedroth that spawns doesnt seem to be as resilient as some of the other pets in the game. It is easily snared by certain mechanics and will just stand there doing nothing. It also has a tendency to get killed.

The reality is that right now Maw is the best DPS set on some fights and not viable on others. If you are min maxing, it will be in your inventory. If you want one set for all occasions, you should probably look elsewhere.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

Dont you people get it?

ZOS does not think fun and effectiveness are mutually exclusive, SO ALL THAT IS EFFECTIVE MUST DIE.

wolfxspice · August 2017

cool, fun set becomes useful, gets nerfed.