The issues related to logging in to the European PC/Mac megaserver have been resolved at this time. If you continue to experience difficulties at login, please restart your client. Thank you for your patience!
STAMINA DPS IN PVE IS FINALLY SOMEWHAT BALANCED!!!
-
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭There is that trapping webs in which it's useless for every boss fight. There isn't much synergy for stam players. Well if the damage and substain is better than I guess it's a meh.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like how you say 'somewhat balanced' when stamina is ridiculously outperforming magicka in PVE right now.3 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like how you say 'somewhat balanced' when stamina is ridiculously outperforming magicka in PVE right now.
Really? For 90% of this games existence it has been 8 mag dps runs for world record scores... Now that 4 stam toons are around for some nice single target damage and 4 mag for aoe burns you refer to that as " ridiculously outperforming"? Well compared to absolutely no stamina dps toons being present I would have to agree they are ridiculously outperforming considering runs now usually consist of 4 stam and 4 mag, both using seperate strengths... I understand you may enjoy 8 mag dps toons every run, and thats fine... Personally I enjoy seeing a good half and half mix of both. If we start seeing some 8 stam dps only runs for world record scores, like we have so many times with mag, I will agree with you. Until then, I think ZOS deserves some positive feedback on the balance they current have achieved.6 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like how you say 'somewhat balanced' when stamina is ridiculously outperforming magicka in PVE right now.
Really? For 90% of this games existence it has been 8 mag dps runs for world record scores... Now that 4 stam toons are around for some nice single target damage and 4 mag for aoe burns you refer to that as " ridiculously outperforming"? Well compared to absolutely no stamina dps toons being present I would have to agree they are ridiculously outperforming considering runs now usually consist of 4 stam and 4 mag, both using seperate strengths... I understand you may enjoy 8 mag dps toons every run, and thats fine... Personally I enjoy seeing a good half and half mix of both. If we start seeing some 8 stam dps only runs for world record scores, like we have so many times with mag, I will agree with you. Until then, I think ZOS deserves some positive feedback on the balance they current have achieved.
The pity argument is a bad argument. Just because stamina was always ***, doesn't mean they should be miles ahead right now.
And the only reason you even have magicka in raid anymore is because it's literally impossible to have everyone in melee, and you need some destro ults for AOE. Not because they actually contribute equally.0 -
derpmander✭✭✭If i could i would run 8 stam this patch but ubfortunately due to mechanics we forced to fill in 3-4 slots with rangedWhat Mechanics
One Frag No Magicka - Magicka Sorcerer0 -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭Lol, what a surprise. You are late for like 2 months already. Another pointless thread by Spamdzilla xdFounder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel6 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I love how stam players think that stam is only balance when they are over performingEdited by FloppyTouch on August 28, 2017 7:52AM2 -
Raghul✭✭✭
https://youtu.be/0S12CIti6Ho
https://youtu.be/zZzbWp9CNLc
Seems pretty balanced to me, and keep in mind, the magsorc pulled 67k dps few days ago but he didn't record that fight.
I guess many magicka players just haven't figured out yet how to do high damage and still sustain it?
Also during those fights i as a stamsorc was buffed with major slayer and the magicka sorc was not so he was doing more damage then me anyway
Aeg4n
The Flawless Conqueror
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer1 -
Raghul✭✭✭
Fearturbo is alive!FeaR Turbo wrote: »REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Meanwhile Alkosh can't crit!!!
When will you upload more content m8?
Aeg4n
The Flawless Conqueror
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer1 -
NiclasFridholm✭✭✭✭https://youtu.be/0S12CIti6Hohttps://youtu.be/zZzbWp9CNLc
Seems pretty balanced to me, and keep in mind, the magsorc pulled 67k dps few days ago but he didn't record that fight.
I guess many magicka players just haven't figured out yet how to do high damage and still sustain it?
Also during those fights i as a stamsorc was buffed with major slayer and the magicka sorc was not so he was doing more damage then me anyway
Damn DPS stealer, nerf you!
Tobias Funke - Magplar since forever1 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭https://youtu.be/0S12CIti6Hohttps://youtu.be/zZzbWp9CNLc
Seems pretty balanced to me, and keep in mind, the magsorc pulled 67k dps few days ago but he didn't record that fight.
I guess many magicka players just haven't figured out yet how to do high damage and still sustain it?
Also during those fights i as a stamsorc was buffed with major slayer and the magicka sorc was not so he was doing more damage then me anyway
when you look carefully at the magsorc-fight, he use mag/hp/magregen-food. Looking at his video from vAA he uses normal-food and was like heavy-attacking 24/7 and is still low on magicka.
Why not using the same build on dummy and in trials? maybe not viable bc of low HP?
edit: to clarify...really nice DPS nonetheless...but if i see such a video and someone writing like "maybe they need to learn how to sustain" i'm getting a little bit mad
Edited by Destruent on August 28, 2017 5:45PMNoobplar1 -
Mitoice✭✭✭✭✭Right now?? Mag Sorcerors are the kings and queens of PvE DPS ...... PERIOD.
I would gladly take a mag sorceror for a trial or hard dungeon than a stam blade... anytime... unless of course i know the sorc and he sucks...
0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Right now?? Mag Sorcerors are the kings and queens of PvE DPS ...... PERIOD.
I would gladly take a mag sorceror for a trial or hard dungeon than a stam blade... anytime... unless of course i know the sorc and he sucks...
Did you just emerge from a doomsday bunker? Not even close to the case any longer. Is the game perfectly balanced, nope, and guess what, it never will be. It is an impossible standard. That said, we are in a pretty darn good spot.
Stam is ahead of magic in Single target, and it should be. It is a more difficult melee playstyle. With risk comes reward. We are constrained by mechanics of having more than 4-5 of them in raid, so magic is still very much needed. Magic also has better AOE, altough the gap is closer than it used to be.
In terms of the stam class, yes, DK is still likely on top, but the other classes are all viable. Sorc is going to be the easiest to play, so its a good break in role because of the extra heals from crit surge. It also is going to have better AOE than others because of hurricane. Templar is behind in damage, but it brings a powerful Debuff with PotL. Stamblade, might actually have a higher celiing than DK, but it is certainly toughest to play so you dont see them as much. They do have a wonderful low cost ulti for War Machine Uptime.
Balance will never be perfect, but the days of 7-8 sorcs or behind us. That is a good thing.8 -
theamazingx✭✭✭✭Can anyone comment on recent experience on stam in stuff like Maw hm? I can see it being viable on either easier content or piloted by a player that already has significant experience with the content, but for progression groups I imagine it's still really rough not having a sizable shield on deck, especially if you had one as a runner.0
-
DarkAedin✭✭✭✭✭
Bc theres much balance right now.
Dw is outperforming 2h and bow for stam dps.
Its even outperforming destro staff on some builds.
In pvp many magica builds dw, and stam builds are more powerful in dw
(Deadly cloak and a 2nd 5 piece bonus, which really outperforms 2h' dizzying if u know how to play, even sword and board does better in a lot of situations)0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭gethemshauna wrote: »Lol, what a surprise. You are late for like 2 months already. Another pointless thread by Spamdzilla xd
I would highly disagree with this thread being pointless. I am more than happy to congratulate ZOS on the best state of balance PVE has ever had... As far as not making this thread last patch, I didn't want to see another patch with 8 mag sorcs. If there was a bunch of attention on how balanced things were last patch, this update would have seen stam surely nerfed back down to 10k lower single target than ranged mag sorcs.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Right now?? Mag Sorcerors are the kings and queens of PvE DPS ...... PERIOD.
I would gladly take a mag sorceror for a trial or hard dungeon than a stam blade... anytime... unless of course i know the sorc and he sucks...
Did you just emerge from a doomsday bunker? Not even close to the case any longer. Is the game perfectly balanced, nope, and guess what, it never will be. It is an impossible standard. That said, we are in a pretty darn good spot.
Stam is ahead of magic in Single target, and it should be. It is a more difficult melee playstyle. With risk comes reward. We are constrained by mechanics of having more than 4-5 of them in raid, so magic is still very much needed. Magic also has better AOE, altough the gap is closer than it used to be.
In terms of the stam class, yes, DK is still likely on top, but the other classes are all viable. Sorc is going to be the easiest to play, so its a good break in role because of the extra heals from crit surge. It also is going to have better AOE than others because of hurricane. Templar is behind in damage, but it brings a powerful Debuff with PotL. Stamblade, might actually have a higher celiing than DK, but it is certainly toughest to play so you dont see them as much. They do have a wonderful low cost ulti for War Machine Uptime.
Balance will never be perfect, but the days of 7-8 sorcs or behind us. That is a good thing.
This is the single best post I have seen out of you on these forums, ever.2 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭I like how you say 'somewhat balanced' when stamina is ridiculously outperforming magicka in PVE right now.
Really? For 90% of this games existence it has been 8 mag dps runs for world record scores... Now that 4 stam toons are around for some nice single target damage and 4 mag for aoe burns you refer to that as " ridiculously outperforming"? Well compared to absolutely no stamina dps toons being present I would have to agree they are ridiculously outperforming considering runs now usually consist of 4 stam and 4 mag, both using seperate strengths... I understand you may enjoy 8 mag dps toons every run, and thats fine... Personally I enjoy seeing a good half and half mix of both. If we start seeing some 8 stam dps only runs for world record scores, like we have so many times with mag, I will agree with you. Until then, I think ZOS deserves some positive feedback on the balance they current have achieved.
The pity argument is a bad argument. Just because stamina was always ***, doesn't mean they should be miles ahead right now.
And the only reason you even have magicka in raid anymore is because it's literally impossible to have everyone in melee, and you need some destro ults for AOE. Not because they actually contribute equally.
So you need magic because they vastly outperform stam in AOE, group utility, and survivability but they don't contribute equally? Stam does considerably more single target damage, but that's it. They are significantly more difficult to survive on, do significantly less AOE dps, and most stam builds offer nothing to the group outside buffing other stam builds.
This phenomena is called balance.Brodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger2 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »I like how you say 'somewhat balanced' when stamina is ridiculously outperforming magicka in PVE right now.
Really? For 90% of this games existence it has been 8 mag dps runs for world record scores... Now that 4 stam toons are around for some nice single target damage and 4 mag for aoe burns you refer to that as " ridiculously outperforming"? Well compared to absolutely no stamina dps toons being present I would have to agree they are ridiculously outperforming considering runs now usually consist of 4 stam and 4 mag, both using seperate strengths... I understand you may enjoy 8 mag dps toons every run, and thats fine... Personally I enjoy seeing a good half and half mix of both. If we start seeing some 8 stam dps only runs for world record scores, like we have so many times with mag, I will agree with you. Until then, I think ZOS deserves some positive feedback on the balance they current have achieved.
The pity argument is a bad argument. Just because stamina was always ***, doesn't mean they should be miles ahead right now.
And the only reason you even have magicka in raid anymore is because it's literally impossible to have everyone in melee, and you need some destro ults for AOE. Not because they actually contribute equally.
So you need magic because they vastly outperform stam in AOE, group utility, and survivability but they don't contribute equally? Stam does considerably more single target damage, but that's it. They are significantly more difficult to survive on, do significantly less AOE dps, and most stam builds offer nothing to the group outside buffing other stam builds.
This phenomena is called balance.
There's only ONE place where that actually holds true, and that's vHoF.
Every other trial stamina is easy as hell to survive and pull way ahead of magicka, even when there is tons of AOE leech available.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »Lol, what a surprise. You are late for like 2 months already. Another pointless thread by Spamdzilla xd
I would highly disagree with this thread being pointless. I am more than happy to congratulate ZOS on the best state of balance PVE has ever had... As far as not making this thread last patch, I didn't want to see another patch with 8 mag sorcs. If there was a bunch of attention on how balanced things were last patch, this update would have seen stam surely nerfed back down to 10k lower single target than ranged mag sorcs.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Right now?? Mag Sorcerors are the kings and queens of PvE DPS ...... PERIOD.
I would gladly take a mag sorceror for a trial or hard dungeon than a stam blade... anytime... unless of course i know the sorc and he sucks...
Did you just emerge from a doomsday bunker? Not even close to the case any longer. Is the game perfectly balanced, nope, and guess what, it never will be. It is an impossible standard. That said, we are in a pretty darn good spot.
Stam is ahead of magic in Single target, and it should be. It is a more difficult melee playstyle. With risk comes reward. We are constrained by mechanics of having more than 4-5 of them in raid, so magic is still very much needed. Magic also has better AOE, altough the gap is closer than it used to be.
In terms of the stam class, yes, DK is still likely on top, but the other classes are all viable. Sorc is going to be the easiest to play, so its a good break in role because of the extra heals from crit surge. It also is going to have better AOE than others because of hurricane. Templar is behind in damage, but it brings a powerful Debuff with PotL. Stamblade, might actually have a higher celiing than DK, but it is certainly toughest to play so you dont see them as much. They do have a wonderful low cost ulti for War Machine Uptime.
Balance will never be perfect, but the days of 7-8 sorcs or behind us. That is a good thing.
This is the single best post I have seen out of you on these forums, ever.
Not sure if that's a compliment to this post or criticism of the 3000 that came before it. Haha
We will go with the first one. 3 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.
I wouldn't say much stronger, and I'd add that stamina is only better in single target and in sustain. Stamina has the advantage of being able to synergize several sets to augment the total group DPS, magicka still has better AoE and better utility (synergies, etc.), so both are important to have in groups.
And this is how it is supposed to be. Playing stamina is a risk-reward playstyle, so it should reward you with higher damage on the bosses.
No it shouldn't, unless it's guaranteed that you can't benefit from that risk 100% of the time. Because if you can learn and can make it so that no one dies - that means there's no longer any risk and no magicka DPS can compete with you for the score. \
The ceiling HAS TO BE THE SAME.I like how you say 'somewhat balanced' when stamina is ridiculously outperforming magicka in PVE right now.
Really? For 90% of this games existence it has been 8 mag dps runs for world record scores... Now that 4 stam toons are around for some nice single target damage and 4 mag for aoe burns you refer to that as " ridiculously outperforming"? Well compared to absolutely no stamina dps toons being present I would have to agree they are ridiculously outperforming considering runs now usually consist of 4 stam and 4 mag, both using seperate strengths... I understand you may enjoy 8 mag dps toons every run, and thats fine... Personally I enjoy seeing a good half and half mix of both. If we start seeing some 8 stam dps only runs for world record scores, like we have so many times with mag, I will agree with you. Until then, I think ZOS deserves some positive feedback on the balance they current have achieved.
90% of the game's existence is irrelevant right now. Or should we perhaps enslave some people because other people were slaves for more than a hundred of years in the past? So that's not an argument at all, stop bringing it up please.
Now, 4 and 4 mix is a good argument. But again, it's too early to say anything. What we see now is that stamina is overpefrorming in tests and single target, and boss fights are by far where most of the vitality is lost. Could be that 4 and 4 is just here because some people are still using their old characters - maybe they didnt' level alts yet, or their group didn't replace them yet if they refuse? Time will showSeems pretty balanced to me, and keep in mind, the magsorc pulled 67k dps few days ago but he didn't record that fight.
I guess many magicka players just haven't figured out yet how to do high damage and still sustain it?
Also during those fights i as a stamsorc was buffed with major slayer and the magicka sorc was not so he was doing more damage then me anyway
You do understand that sorcs are not the only ones who try to play magicka, right? They were overperfroming compared to other mages before and nothing changed in that regard - we all remember patch notes where they were not touched. Now show me the same videos with magicka Nightblade or Warden pulling these numbers, then maybe you have a point.
1 -
Moltyr✭✭✭When was stam not a viable part of endgame content? Granted they can't spam harness magicka to avoid dying, but I've never had DPS issues as stam. Ever. In fact, that's why I switched to magicka. It is way too incredibly easy to get 40k DPS with a stam toon (NB/DK for me). Even after HotR, I was still getting 35k+ DPS on a Khajiit Stamblade with NMG and VO....without even trying. That was also after just coming back from 6 months or so AFK. I think there are advantages to both types of DPS, each has their own scenario where they shine best. For me personally, I just got tired of having the same exact build as any other stam toon pretty much regardless of class. Though, I do miss being able to roll dodge/break free more etc.0 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamina were not allowed in raids a short time ago. It is nice to see some balance achieved
2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.
I wouldn't say much stronger, and I'd add that stamina is only better in single target and in sustain. Stamina has the advantage of being able to synergize several sets to augment the total group DPS, magicka still has better AoE and better utility (synergies, etc.), so both are important to have in groups.
And this is how it is supposed to be. Playing stamina is a risk-reward playstyle, so it should reward you with higher damage on the bosses.
No it shouldn't, unless it's guaranteed that you can't benefit from that risk 100% of the time. Because if you can learn and can make it so that no one dies - that means there's no longer any risk and no magicka DPS can compete with you for the score. \
The ceiling HAS TO BE THE SAME.
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. Every time you play, there is a chance you will make a mistake and die. Sure practice allows you to minimize that, but there is always a chance. Stam must deal with more mechanics and damage than magic. They are closer to the fight and don't have a shield. Therefore, the chances they will make mistake and die is always greater. They are rewarded with more damage. It's good balance that way if you ask me. Mechanics prevent more than 4 or 5 melee which is also good because if helps enforce the balance to some degree. Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.
Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on August 29, 2017 6:04AM3 -
DPShiro✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would rather have Blade Cloak than a shield, that skill is so good now.~ Gryphon Heart ~
~ Immortal Redeemer ~
~ Grand Master Crafter ~
~ Master Angler ~
~ Former Emperor ~3 -
Fallewarrior✭✭✭✭Lol to who ever says stam is harder to survive on. Deadly cloak makes u tankier then a shield spamming sorc.
Also big lol to who ever calls this balance. Pulling 15k st dps ahead & still have very good cleave is not balance.
Funfact. You could pull 50st on rakkhat as a stam class back in homestead np.Hocus Pocus Grim Focus
-Fallen | TICK TOCK TORMENTERR | IMMORTAL MEMERR | GRYPHON HEART
HODOR!
Worlds First Tick Tock & Disassembly General (No death speedrun HM vHoF)
Worlds First vAS Hardmode
Worlds First Cloudrest clear, and hardmode
Worlds First Cloudrest HM Nodeathspeedrun (Gryphon Heart)
PC/EU4 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.
Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.1
