Ok devs, it's time, something clearly stinks...

starkerealm · August 2017

aresula wrote: »

How does CE even work on an MMO? Did ZOS actually store important data clientside?

Yep. It was how they intended to make Cyrodiil's large scale PvP manageable, originally. It makes sense for consoles, less so for PC. A lot of the lag issues in Cyrodiil are just the server having to sanity check what the player is doing.

technohic · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Though I know possible, it's much less frequent on console. Also most console players play on console for the very reason that they don't have to do programming like stuff to play lol

Yeah I switched every other game I play to console. Just not this one because I have too much stuff. Need an account transfer service. Would pay good money for that

Thogard · August 2017

Never seen a cheater before. But I've been reported for cheating many many many times whenever I use blessed meridia.

When I actually see a cheater then ill take these posts seriously. It's just hard to take them seriously when I get reported so often by noobs who don't know the game mechanics.

Would really like to see a video of someone cheating, but apparently those don't exist either. With the amount of stresmers in the game, you'd think it'd be easy to find.. but nope.

f047ys3v3n · August 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

lulz - CE has been here from day 0 and prolly will never leave.
I know its a cynical view but I suspect a lot more players use CE than we may think.

Apprently the latest CE Meta is to boost stats by 5-15%, enough to have a winning edge, but not over 'theoretical max'.
e.g. 2500 regen, not 25000.

and notice, how a lot of players who either video or screencap never show us there detailed stats including regen, pen etc?
seems they switch off everything prior to this.

Also, classic CE user technique is to tell you its a L2P issue, its lag, its a bug, its ani cancelling, its running around rocks, its mega weaving... and put the heat back on any1 who questions.

the CE undground even has CE meta builds - lol

CE has not been around since day 0. In fact there was a whole year before it came on the scene. It started around the time of Imp city though I am not sure if a little before or after that as I did not know of it's existence for a while.

Honestly, I do not know why ZOS has paid so little attention to the issue. They have addressed it only so far as optics are concerned by making an algorithm that catches the 100k spell power and infinite ultimate crowd. They seem to be happy as long as metiers aren't raining infinitely from folks flying in cyridiil. They could have relatively easily made a real fix and some real bans that would have made folks think twice.

Things for the new guys in charge to think about. I'm assuming we will probably get some soon. 15% month on month player declines despite a $9.99 sale price for the base game, empty weekly leaderboards, and a crown sale indicate revenues must be flagging. I expect they are flagging bad. Morrowind fail.

Jade1986 · August 2017

itscompton wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

It's been clear for a long time that some stam dodge too much. Having 10-15 attacks in a row dodged on a regular basis is inexplicable under the current understanding of dodge chance. Other people doing the same thing with the same build dodge at an expected rate.

I am in PvP right now and every mag sorc I run into is dodging. Some are not even bothering with shields.

Someone rode buy on a horse and dodged 5 ranged attacks... Never stopped, just kept riding.

Something is wrong and it's time to actually look into it.

This has actually been going on for quite some time and in fact used to be even worse as far as how many people are using whatever exploit is causing it. I remember at one point it was just about impossible to land an attack on pretty much any stam character I fought. My guess is they patched the old exploit and someone figured out a new one and it's just not known by as many people yet.

So thats why people are dodging 9999999999999999999 attacks atm. Yeesh, teach me to make a nature based bow class. This was going on outside of alessia today , literally had 20 people on him , and nothing was even landing.

itscompton · August 2017

Thogard wrote: »

Never seen a cheater before. But I've been reported for cheating many many many times whenever I use blessed meridia.

When I actually see a cheater then ill take these posts seriously. It's just hard to take them seriously when I get reported so often by noobs who don't know the game mechanics.

Would really like to see a video of someone cheating, but apparently those don't exist either. With the amount of stresmers in the game, you'd think it'd be easy to find.. but nope.

I guess you missed all the posts when people first started using cheat engine and had unlimited ultimate so they were dropping ice comets non-stop. Cheating is less common on console since it's not a simple software download. But there is a piece of USB hardware I saw mentioned a while back (can't remember the exact name) that can be loaded with scripts on PC and then it plugs into the PS4 controller port letting the user do pretty much anything you can do with CE.

Thogard · August 2017

itscompton wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Never seen a cheater before. But I've been reported for cheating many many many times whenever I use blessed meridia.

When I actually see a cheater then ill take these posts seriously. It's just hard to take them seriously when I get reported so often by noobs who don't know the game mechanics.

Would really like to see a video of someone cheating, but apparently those don't exist either. With the amount of stresmers in the game, you'd think it'd be easy to find.. but nope.

I guess you missed all the posts when people first started using cheat engine and had unlimited ultimate so they were dropping ice comets non-stop. Cheating is less common on console since it's not a simple software download. But there is a piece of USB hardware I saw mentioned a while back (can't remember the exact name) that can be loaded with scripts on PC and then it plugs into the PS4 controller port letting the user do pretty much anything you can do with CE.

Yeah I think that was two years ago, around when IC dropped.

I haven't seen a cheater in a looong time.

Post videos taken after Morrowind if you want to be taken seriously.

Smmokkee · August 2017

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Just had another ride by with 50% dodge rate. Also just kept on trucking.

Edit: Might be important to note first 2 arrows hit, next two were dodged. Like they turned something on maybe...

LOLLOLOLOLOL

BlazingDynamo · August 2017

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

And yet, Stam doesn't have the constant hardened wards or sorc wards to continually cast. So what do we have? We can roll around in the dirt for a while.

Wouldn't be so bad if you had to time your dodge roll..casting a shield cost magic like dodge rolling cost stam. Only difference is a shield eill still take damage but a dodge roll counters attacks 100% of the time. It's straight cheese.

BohnT · August 2017

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

And yet, Stam doesn't have the constant hardened wards or sorc wards to continually cast. So what do we have? We can roll around in the dirt for a while.

Wouldn't be so bad if you had to time your dodge roll..casting a shield cost magic like dodge rolling cost stam. Only difference is a shield eill still take damage but a dodge roll counters attacks 100% of the time. It's straight cheese.

Even if it would, which it does not there are many abilities which completely ignore dodge roll:
Every magicka based AoE, Meteor, Birds, beams / channels, ground aoes, dawnbreaker, jabs, templar sweep, applied dots, curse.

And also there is a cost increase which forces you to think about when you can dodge.
Meaning a dodge roll has a unknown effectiveness it may be very strong against against one build but another might completely ignore it.
With shields on the other hand you are guarded for a set amount of damage no matter what for the next 6 seconds

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2017

Dodge chance has been a PITA for a long time. It's no accident that all of the 1vX types run shuffle. Now magicka users are running it. Anyone with the stam for it should, since it's extra "skill" at a press of a button.

On top of that, there has been shuffle exploit after shuffle exploit. There used to be full sets you could equip then bug out and unequip for permanent shuffle. Since ZOS is terrible at recursion testing, people have been able to replicate this bug over and over again with different methods.

MirkoZ · August 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

I think we should just be clear though, shuffle in of itself doesnt need a nerf I don think. I once made a post on adjusting shuffle after chasing someone and watching what I assumed was shuffle proc 8 times in a row. However these instances arent common and its possible that 1) there were other sets/abilites involved or 2) there is in fact an exploit. If there is an exploit it needs to be fixed. But in reality, shuffle isnt a super power. In fact I often dont bother running it because I feel like its a playstyle and not necessarily that great. For me at least it doesnt seem to affect my survivability all that much. I think what people perceive as an issue with shuffle is more related to kite builds running shuffle and probably miats pvp alerts along with high regen that can afford to kite nearly infinitely. Overall I dont see shuffle in of itself to be much of an issue, both from the perspective of a stam only player and from the perspective of having to fight people with it. I find shields to be far more annoying than shuffle.

Nope , shields are ok right now , maybe u can complain about bolt escape or penacea those are really annoying , but not shields

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2017

aresula wrote: »

How does CE even work on an MMO? Did ZOS actually store important data clientside?

Most things have to run clientside, but MMOs also run a check on the final values server side to keep it in line. That takes processing power on the server though and also causes lag.
They may have taken shortcuts that reduces that verification step and allows cheating.

f047ys3v3n · August 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

aresula wrote: »

How does CE even work on an MMO? Did ZOS actually store important data clientside?

Most things have to run clientside, but MMOs also run a check on the final values server side to keep it in line. That takes processing power on the server though and also causes lag.
They may have taken shortcuts that reduces that verification step and allows cheating.

Bingo

CavalryPK · August 2017

As a range magblade the most annoying and high sodium event in open world pvp is when a stambuild is able to constantly LOS and dodge out of sticky situations. There was once this guy he managed to kite over 5 ep including me around the building untill his friends arrived. The attacks would just mostly be dodged and we were not able to pin him down since every snare he would just castle shuffle dodge on a bow bar and sprint around walls. After that event i relized that he clearly has a hugh advantage over me thus i just disengage an go do something else.

What is also super annoying is if there are no structures to LOS in a pinch they can just dodge role 3 times and they are out of range. I cannot do anything about that. Its super frustrating. .. so i am L2Ping to burst them down when they attack me vs when they are on defensive. I hop they cam be adjusted.

Adjusting would require some creativity since you can not take their dodge away. .. its like shields for.mag builds with the benefit of super high mobility.

itscompton · August 2017

Thogard wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Never seen a cheater before. But I've been reported for cheating many many many times whenever I use blessed meridia.

When I actually see a cheater then ill take these posts seriously. It's just hard to take them seriously when I get reported so often by noobs who don't know the game mechanics.

Would really like to see a video of someone cheating, but apparently those don't exist either. With the amount of stresmers in the game, you'd think it'd be easy to find.. but nope.

I guess you missed all the posts when people first started using cheat engine and had unlimited ultimate so they were dropping ice comets non-stop. Cheating is less common on console since it's not a simple software download. But there is a piece of USB hardware I saw mentioned a while back (can't remember the exact name) that can be loaded with scripts on PC and then it plugs into the PS4 controller port letting the user do pretty much anything you can do with CE.

Yeah I think that was two years ago, around when IC dropped.

I haven't seen a cheater in a looong time.

Post videos taken after Morrowind if you want to be taken seriously.

Why would I care if you take me seriously or not? It's not like you can do anything to fix the problem, you're just some guy on the internet trying to feel important.

Thogard · August 2017

itscompton wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Never seen a cheater before. But I've been reported for cheating many many many times whenever I use blessed meridia.

When I actually see a cheater then ill take these posts seriously. It's just hard to take them seriously when I get reported so often by noobs who don't know the game mechanics.

Would really like to see a video of someone cheating, but apparently those don't exist either. With the amount of stresmers in the game, you'd think it'd be easy to find.. but nope.

I guess you missed all the posts when people first started using cheat engine and had unlimited ultimate so they were dropping ice comets non-stop. Cheating is less common on console since it's not a simple software download. But there is a piece of USB hardware I saw mentioned a while back (can't remember the exact name) that can be loaded with scripts on PC and then it plugs into the PS4 controller port letting the user do pretty much anything you can do with CE.

Yeah I think that was two years ago, around when IC dropped.

I haven't seen a cheater in a looong time.

Post videos taken after Morrowind if you want to be taken seriously.

Why would I care if you take me seriously or not? It's not like you can do anything to fix the problem, you're just some guy on the internet trying to feel important.

Buddy, there's nothing you can do or say that would ever make me take you seriously.

But if you really think somebody is cheating, you should record it with a video so that the devs will take you seriously.

But with your post history, I doubt even that would work.

doslekis · August 2017

Why all this shuffle hate? Everyone I know that slots this skill use it for snare removal and snare immunity for a few seconds after hitting.

LegacyDM · August 2017

aresula wrote: »

How does CE even work on an MMO? Did ZOS actually store important data clientside?

Certain values are stored in memory client side. It was designed this way to reduce overhead and latency. Values could be resource pool, regen, running speed, and stealth location. Think of it this way, as the client talks to the server those values are modified client side by CE. CE can inject its own values in memory. If the server doesn't have integrity checks or their is no anti cheat program looking for third party applications altering memory locations, then CE will work. Zos did implement integrity checks but it appears their anti cheat integrity check looks only for thresholds. Therefore, if someone sets a Stam regen of 2500 when they should only have 1500 it's acceptable under the zos server integrity checks and the anti cheat wouldn't detect it. Now if soneone sets a value of 25000 it would detect it.

maxjapank · August 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

aresula wrote: »

How does CE even work on an MMO? Did ZOS actually store important data clientside?

Therefore, if someone sets a Stam regen of 2500 when they should only have 1500 it's acceptable under the zos server integrity checks and the anti cheat wouldn't detect it. Now if soneone sets a value of 25000 it would detect it.

Never knew how CE worked. Never tried it nor would I. But that was a very insightful explanation. That's why a few are able to hit so hard and yet still have good resource regen. They could essentially build for dps, all dmg enchants, and use CE for the regen they otherwise wouldn't have.

Thing is. As much as I suspect a few players. It doesn't change anything. I still have to fight them...or find another fight. Kinda have to invoke the serenity prayer here. Accept the things I cannot change, etc.

Thogard · August 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

aresula wrote: »

How does CE even work on an MMO? Did ZOS actually store important data clientside?

Certain values are stored in memory client side. It was designed this way to reduce overhead and latency. Values could be resource pool, regen, running speed, and stealth location. Think of it this way, as the client talks to the server those values are modified client side by CE. CE can inject its own values in memory. If the server doesn't have integrity checks or their is no anti cheat program looking for third party applications altering memory locations, then CE will work. Zos did implement integrity checks but it appears their anti cheat integrity check looks only for thresholds. Therefore, if someone sets a Stam regen of 2500 when they should only have 1500 it's acceptable under the zos server integrity checks and the anti cheat wouldn't detect it. Now if soneone sets a value of 25000 it would detect it.

Im pretty sure regen is server side (now anyway). So is damage. The main thing that's client side is movement, block status (whether or not you're blocking), and channel duration. Bar swapping starts off client side but has a server side check, which is why sometimes when your ping is high you can accidentally swap cancel skills - the skill is server side but the swap is client side so it goes off before the skill when ping is high.

GCD is definitely server side.

Main potential for exploits, assuming it is possible, would be in insta-casting channeled abilities like snipe, and in running too fast.

starkerealm · August 2017

At this point I seriously suspect the dodge chance is stored locally, and unchecked. But, that could just be a mix of salt and paranoia talking.

Thogard · August 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

At this point I seriously suspect the dodge chance is stored locally, and unchecked. But, that could just be a mix of salt and paranoia talking.

Hmmm... well block is, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that the 100% miss chance of dodgeroll is too. The shuffle 15% isn't though.

Wreuntzylla · August 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

At this point I seriously suspect the dodge chance is stored locally, and unchecked. But, that could just be a mix of salt and paranoia talking.

When mag sorcs start to dodge 10 attacks in a row, I suspect it's neither salt nor paranoia....

KingYogi415 · August 2017

Console master race!

No macro meta either..,

Feanor · August 2017

We've all heard the "he's just a good player" stories before. It's not even about CE. That was just the most obvious and blatant thing after it was exposed. But subtle things? Double mundus exploit? Hist bark exploit? Yeah, all just really good players, L2P, git gut. I mean, actually we should be grateful for the handful of players who went flying through Cyrodiil dropping Meteors like spammables. They made something aware to even the most ingnorant.

Any really good player should have a natural interest in getting rid of exploits and cheats. Because his or her skill will always be tainted with the suspicion of foul play in an environment like this. What we get is belittling others for voicing concerns telling them there are noobs and scrubs who just don't know enough about the game. But then again must people obviously only care for their AP and the latest video highlights. Not for the means how they got there.

I stopped caring about exploits and cheats after seeing how poorly ZOS handled the CE exposure on a grand scale. If you step into Cyrodiil you accept that skill is inconsequential there. It's either zerging or exploiting. The very few who choose neither are mostly not the ones 1vXing on YouTube.

WaltherCarraway · August 2017

I don't know who's serious here.

Those CE posts apparently trolling anyway

I honestly don't give a hoot until someone spammed 10 shooting stars in a row.

Feanor · August 2017

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

I don't know who's serious here.

Those CE posts apparently trolling anyway

I honestly don't give a hoot until someone spammed 10 shooting stars in a row.

That's exactly what everyone said before CE was exposed grand scale.