Magsorc ridiculously OP

Takes-No-Prisoner · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

First thing is not dying to the sorc, which requires either Purging Curse (blue Betty) and/or dealing with Frag (block, Shimmering)

I was surprised when I ran Shimmering, that I had to still block the knockdown from Frags. One would think Shimmering's ability, it would just be absorbed into it.

Waffennacht · August 2017

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Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First thing is not dying to the sorc, which requires either Purging Curse (blue Betty) and/or dealing with Frag (block, Shimmering)

I was surprised when I ran Shimmering, that I had to still block the knockdown from Frags. One would think Shimmering's ability, it would just be absorbed into it.

Yeah, surprised me first too. I also don't think it does anything to skoria or comet (that or the damage reduction was too low to notice)

But it's all about that ult gain, never ending forests or actually being able to use N. Storm consistently.

Imo the best counter to any ranged build is defensive posture, it lasts forever and actually adds to your burst. Plus even passives.

We're going to see bleed builds the most I think.

Takes-No-Prisoner · August 2017

Definitely, I've run a dumb build that can poop out forests every 30~45 seconds if I'm under the right conditions. 5x Tava's Heavy, 5x Impregnable, 2x monster then just chill out at a hole in the wall and let the heals comes out.

It still dies quickly when focused, but 1v1 it simply won't die as long as I can press L1/R1 fast enough.

Waffennacht · August 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Definitely, I've run a dumb build that can poop out forests every 30~45 seconds if I'm under the right conditions. 5x Tava's Heavy, 5x Impregnable, 2x monster then just chill out at a hole in the wall and let the heals comes out.

It still dies quickly when focused, but 1v1 it simply won't die as long as I can press L1/R1 fast enough.

Blocking, Light Attacks (heavy?), Heals all have different ult gains. Decisive triggers potentially on all three individually, then you have major and minor heroism potentially too, another 2 decisive ult gain opportunities. At iirc 40% to gain 1 ult per each would average to 2 additional ult per sec I think that's like 19 ult per sec?

Add in like animal passive and you should be able to have 100% uptime on your forest

Takes-No-Prisoner · August 2017

While I didn't go decisive(went powered) for weapons, yea that is powerful lol. Getting hit in general and LA/HA does generate some ult. But the meat and potatoes is having Heroism up as much as possible. We also forgot to mention Bloodspawn procs since that also boosts it. Plus there is fun sets like ;

Blessing of the Potentates(member Mid-year Mayhem? member gold jewelry for this was available? I member...)
Akaviri Dragonguard

I haven't toyed with either. Build is a work in progress tho, so I digress............ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Lexxypwns · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you

Become vampire

unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , they cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

Why bother posting things you know yourself are factually incorrect if you don´t care yourself?

@Derra if you were a fish you'd have been hooked and in my cooler by now. Dont bother with these 1 star forumtards.

So i can´t pvp bc of crippling lag and fps bugs...

I try to forumpvp instead and here you are - my forumequivalent to crippling lag and fps drops

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Mag sorc is a whole tier below both warden specs. Mag warden is one of the top performing specs and neither sorc cracks top 5

It´s kinda interesting how different console and pc play out.
They´re are hardly any to be found on pc. Top performing ones are basically leprechauns riding on unicorns.

Magwarden is literally only outperformed by mag sorc in solo situations, nowhere else. As soon as there's a second person on your side it's not even close because warden has superior defense, lesser but adequate offense, better passives, better ultis etc. if you're only fighting 1v1 you should never get hit with the full burst from either warden or mag sorc so arguing against shalks as a CC is irrelevant, especially since you need a destro ability on bar anyway and flame reach is a perfectly good cc.

And warden is about 150,000 times more survivable solo than sorc.

What offensive ult do you use btw @Derra
Unless it's destro warden can use it better.

Derra · August 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

What offensive ult do you use btw @Derra
Unless it's destro warden can use it better.

I´m switching these days if i´m playing. For BGs it´s dawnbreaker for open world i´ve grown to like attro (yeah people can just walk away but most don´t when they outnumber you).

I´d argue about the survivable statement - simply bc of the survivability streak adds.

1v1 sorc should never beat a warden that slotted shimmering (so every warden?).

Waffennacht · August 2017

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Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

What offensive ult do you use btw @Derra
Unless it's destro warden can use it better.

I´m switching these days if i´m playing. For BGs it´s dawnbreaker for open world i´ve grown to like attro (yeah people can just walk away but most don´t when they outnumber you).

I´d argue about the survivable statement - simply bc of the survivability streak adds.

1v1 sorc should never beat a warden that slotted shimmering (so every warden?).

"...If I'm playing..."

What do you not play anymore @Derra?

Sharee · August 2017

Apherius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you

Become vampire

unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their daedric mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , daedric mines cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

You will lose more magicka constantly mistforming to clear mines than the sorc will use replacing them.

Yes, mistform is cheaper (4481 magicka, mines cost 5962 magicka), but while mistform runs you do not regen magicka, so the sorc will get 2 regen ticks while you get none.

If the sorc has only 740 magicka regen, he's better off than you. And that does not even take into account the fact he can do two heavy attacks on you while you're misting for 4 seconds, giving him even more magicka (and the side effect of you taking damage while he's not).

And yeah, sorry for throwing math in your face.

Derra · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

What offensive ult do you use btw @Derra
Unless it's destro warden can use it better.

I´m switching these days if i´m playing. For BGs it´s dawnbreaker for open world i´ve grown to like attro (yeah people can just walk away but most don´t when they outnumber you).

I´d argue about the survivable statement - simply bc of the survivability streak adds.

1v1 sorc should never beat a warden that slotted shimmering (so every warden?).

"...If I'm playing..."

What do you not play anymore @Derra?

Lets say i´ve made 300k ap since the last event ended. 150k being on the last two days. Post event depression was real.

The harsh reality when you´re confronted with what pvp could be like when the devs just cared a little more and gave incentives to go to cyrodiil for the people...

Killset · August 2017

MetalHead4x4 wrote: »

Give me a break. I'm a Mag Sorc, I run Kag's, Infernal Guardian and Willpower (2 heavy 5 light), my shields are only about 17k with my 21k health, 36k magicka and 9k stam. I run the witchmother food for sustain with 1900 recovery and I run out of magicka all the time because of poisons. I think some classes have many advantages over Sorcs.

Take Streak/Ball Lightning, whether offensively or defensively, 2H Crit Rush, or the NB gap closer reaches further than we do, if you are running immovable pots, we don't get the stun. Same with frags, same with flaming reach, you don't get the knockdown so when your up close the 7 meter melee range is eating our shields and health.

6 seconds shields, what a joke, when you are taking damage you have to spam them. They are gone in a second or two, which is funny when you come across people like Faso, Xevenex, or Thetruelegend that seem to never lose their shields while eating damage from 5-6 guys and these Sorcs are nuking us down. rarely do you see any kind of animation AT ALL unless its a bar swap. There's no way they are simply that much better using the same skill set. They have some kind of edge.

Radiant Magelight, a joke. I still get insta-killed sometimes by NB's or anyone using a 2H build when hit from behind.

9k stam I'm lucky to get one block and a Dodge Roll out of it.

NB's, give me a break, guys like Mizaru and Miat nuke me in seconds, they dodge 9/10 of my attacks and hit me twice and I'm dead, that's with both shields up. When I do hit with flaming reach or frag, I'm lucky to get a 2k hit and thats with 3k spell damage. Plus that gap closer snare I can't move, lose all mobility.

I can't burn down a DK. I run out of magicka.

If I get gap closed, by the time I react and cast a shield, I've taken 5 hits from melee animation cancellers.

Defensive Rune, a joke, if you are insta-killed with a burst it doesn't protect you.

Healing Ward, sometimes it doesn't cast on you but someone else.

NB's can stealth even when using a Lightning Staff heavy attack.

Boundless Storm, the physical resistance is a joke, EVERY 2H attacks hits me for at least 7-8k, that's one shield I have to recast.

I noticed Templar Biting Jabs ignores my shields, I get my health burned down and my shields are still up.

Noticed lately I can't break free out of Fear, and half the time I get knocked down I can't get back up (I get knocked down! But can't get up again!) That should be the real song lyrics.

So anyone complaining probably has never played a Sorc. In 5 light 2 heavy you don't last long.

LOL your build sucks and you complain EVERY class is better than you. You even manage to cite over powered Sorcs killing you as an example of why Sorcs are not over powered! Well done!

Killset · August 2017

IAVITNI wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Its not the stalemate I have an issue with. As I explained in the second part. That example I used was to show that a sorc that matches me in survivability has: More damage and more movability. (Quite a bit more too.) For balance to happen in PvP, it has to be a pick two situation. Sustain is down to the player.

Not to nit pick your posts (just commented on your dk thread xD) but you mention trade offs rather one sidedly. You consider the cross-class trade offs but ignore the internal-class trade offs. Yes a mag DK/Templar is tankier than a Sorc, but just because you couldn't kill the sorc does not mean the sorc is just as tanky as your dk/templar. DK/Templar is naturally tankier but their damage is also naturally lower than a sorc.

So some kindergarten math to convey my point:

Sorc has 2 hp, and each attack deals 2 damage.
DK has 4 hp, and each attack deals 1 damage.

Sorc vs DK--> Kill time is the same but the DK is still naturally tankier than the sorc. Yes a duel is a lot more complicated, but Hardened+Harness does the same thing as Vigor+Rally. Both allow you to go back on the offensive after being cast. Now their effectiveness may differ (not counting Rally burst heal), but tbh that has more to do with the pointless increased vigor cost and the difficulty of balancing dodge roll.

ak_pvp wrote: »

I know that it seems like I am bashing on sorcs, I am not. Its just the shield aspect that I have an issue with, a few other players and you yourself have acknowledged there is a problem, derra even showing the maths behind perma shielding and it having no penalty.

It seems like your bashing on sorcs because your comments seem biased. Again, saying perma shielding has no penalty is biased. There is a penalty. Lets assume my only shield is Hardened. If I'm perma shielding I'm not doing any damage and I am draining my resources big time. The problem isn't perma shielding. That's like saying perma HoTs is OP. The problem is shield stacking, and only stacking Harness + Hardened due to the infinite sustain vs magicka.

1v1 vs a stam class, you're not going going to have infinite shielding without weaving in a heavy attack. 1v1 vs a mag class, and you both have the same broken mechanic, so technically balanced? If I'm fighting 5 stam classes all spamming crit rush and not dying to my Dawnbreaker burst because they aren't potatoes, my Magicka pool is gone in a matter of seconds. now throw in a Magicka class as one of the 5 and my life gets a lot easier. So maybe sorc shields aren't broken, but Harness is?

Not saying M sorc doesn't need fine tuning. Amberplasm is over performing in combination with dark conversion. This combo gives sorcs infinite magicka and the ability to dodge roll frequently.

Before a sorc nerf actually foes through, they need to balance dark exchange + morphs and Harness magicka. I know people complain about Mage Wrath too. It serves as both a proactive and reactive execute. it shouldn't do both. Diminish its ability to reactively execute and it should be in a good place (ex. it only deals full execute damage after 2 seconds. <2 seconds the execute portion is half)

Magicka sorc is actually well balanced as a class overall, barring the aforementioned skill and maybe some slight number adjustments. Most other classes are simply imbalanced. If you place a balanced class beside an imbalanced class, then ya, the balanced class is going to look op.

Ahhh... Sorc is just balanced while everyone else is imbalanced! Now I understand. The arguments that Sorcs come up with to defend their class are priceless! What's next? Hypnotism?

Killset · August 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s kinda interesting how different console and pc play out.
They´re are hardly any to be found on pc. Top performing ones are basically leprechauns riding on unicorns.

Derra, one of the things to keep in mind about PC vs Console is accessibility. If you have a problem with your build, you are just one alt-tab away from google search. A quick over view of some things you might of missed on another website you may favorite from time to time, then your off and about on your toon with the answer you needed. You find improvement, you get better, cause you have a PC.

Console players do not do this. Those of us who do are few and far in between.

So the number of potatoes we fight are many and numerous. Most never take the time to even ask, let alone seek further information to keep developing their builds...they just run whatever they scrap together.

Wrong... Where are you PvPing? Because it isn't on Vivec or Shor. The 6-8 man try hard groups running the most OP builds and classes are real. I'm sorry but half the PC videos of 1vX and small scale are so bad it looks staged. I understand this is just a glimpse of the big picture but man the masses on PC seem bad. There are tons of EXTREMELY skilled players on console and it's just sad that most of these groups are AD and D.C. From a reds perspective anyways.

ThoraxtheDark · August 2017

Lmao all the people defending sorcs though.

davey1107 · August 2017

@killset I'm on PS4 NA, and EP has always has low population problems. I'd also like to see more red players...the more competitive it is, the better for the game. However, since Morrowind I've seen a big push by red, so hopefully that sticks.

I've always wondered if the native races play a big role in the disparity. With nords, argonians and dunmer...that's not very diverse or the more popular races for pvp. For a long time Argoniams were bad for pvp, leaving red as tank city. Things are better now, but those races are tough for stamblade and some other class mixes.

My suggestion - Zos should offer "Any race any alliance" for either free, or drop it to 500 crowns. Then new players could use their free crowns toward this, and maybe the racial mix would get better for EP toons.

Betsararie · August 2017

Feel very very bad for the people that have to start these discussions.

JaJaLuka · August 2017

We should make a competition!
Winner is the person who can find a link to a thread complaining about every class.
GO!