Sets and developer notes

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

From the Natch Potes today:

I happen to agree with this sentiment. There SHOULD be many different ways to get the necessary stats for end game content. However, in reality, guilds still require specific armor sets, even if they don't really help. Ebon for tanks is an example, an extra 1k health isn't going to keep you from being one shot, or allow you to stand in red. Having Aggressive Warhorn up the entire time helps more. Wathcing your feet helps most.

I'd rather see end game head towards stats based qualifications, not armor sets. Thoughts?

MagicalSociety · August 2017

Ebon and that 1k can be the difference in life or death, nothing is going to prevent the one shot, but as a tank it should be about helping your group.

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

Trexton wrote: »

Ebon and that 1k can be the difference in life or death, nothing is going to prevent the one shot, but as a tank it should be about helping your group.

Ok, name me an example where that 1k has saved you. Please, I'm serious and not being snarky.

And wearing Alkosh does help the group a lot, and means I lost a set of armor that could be making me more resistant to dying. So, please, tell me how that 1k is the difference.

ynotcruzwitme · August 2017

Have you never been healed with more or less than 1k health? I know it's rare but it can make or break a fight. Like the above post said, it's all about helping your group. No one buff is going to make a difference but when they're piled on it makes a huge difference

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

ynotcruzwitme wrote: »

Have you never been healed with more or less than 1k health?

I think you needed to remove the "more". Tanks are either ok on health or dead. If I have less than 10% (4k) I am VERY dead.

If you're relying on 1k health, step out of the red please.

SaintSubwayy · August 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Trexton wrote: »

Ebon and that 1k can be the difference in life or death, nothing is going to prevent the one shot, but as a tank it should be about helping your group.

Ok, name me an example where that 1k has saved you. Please, I'm serious and not being snarky.

And wearing Alkosh does help the group a lot, and means I lost a set of armor that could be making me more resistant to dying. So, please, tell me how that 1k is the difference.

So you want exampels:

vAA: Stone Attro stomps, Varlariel's explosion, The Mage in executestage
vHRC: Ra Kotu's whirlwinds, The Warrir's Shieldthrow

just a few exampels where 1k can make the difference since there is no area where you'd be safe (except for the shieldthrow, which you can survive with block and ebon btw;) )

So you think ebon is not worth the 5pcs bonus...so should they buff it to 2k or what? ^^

dpencil1 · August 2017

The problem with this dev comment, in my mind, is that it essentially equates all sets. I don't see why Trials sets should be equally as powerful as crafted or other dropped PvE sets. it should go: Trials > Dungeon > Crafted > Overland. And with the move toward content-specific buffs like Minor Slayer, there's still plenty of room for generally useful sets like those that are crafted or drop from Overland content.

And now with Minor Slayer essentially being gutted by being made additive, the motivation to run Trials sets is even smaller than it used to be. I get better DPS with 3 purple Willpower jewelry (which are super easy to get) compared to 3 gold IA jewelry. How does that make sense?

ynotcruzwitme · August 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

ynotcruzwitme wrote: »

Have you never been healed with more or less than 1k health?

I think you needed to remove the "more". Tanks are either ok on health or dead. If I have less than 10% (4k) I am VERY dead.

If you're relying on 1k health, step out of the red please.

You're thinking only for tank not the group wide buff

ezeepeezee · August 2017

There are actually different setups that are optimal based on the content. So while you're seeing the BiS setup for trials on any given content creator's site, you may not be aware that that gear is specifically for trials, for example. I would not run the same gear, skills or CP in a trial as I would in vMA, or in PVP, or in vDSA.

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

Ok, to everyone - ZOS is making tanking increasingly more difficult. Why must the tank wear a DPS set and provide a group buff with no buffs to themselves?

Seriosuly, this was supposed to be about armor, I'm tired of being excluded from trials beause I don't wear Alkosh and Ebon. I can tank these trials just fine, and my groups survive very well.

So let's think outside the box - why must only a few sets be accpetable at end game?

Zer0oo · August 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

From the Natch Potes today:

I happen to agree with this sentiment. There SHOULD be many different ways to get the necessary stats for end game content. However, in reality, guilds still require specific armor sets, even if they don't really help. Ebon for tanks is an example, an extra 1k health isn't going to keep you from being one shot, or allow you to stand in red. Having Aggressive Warhorn up the entire time helps more. Wathcing your feet helps most.

I'd rather see end game head towards stats based qualifications, not armor sets. Thoughts?

Ebon is one of the only real good heavy armor tank set in the game compared to all tank sets from trials which are just really bad(2k shield, getting one free death, 15% protection for only 2 random ppl in a 12 ppl grp).

Also kind of funny now with the nerfed 5th piece of IA it is now probably back to trash for dds (you get the IA debuff easy from lightning damage), so it is now loser in all situations and not really helping with set diversity. So we should now just choose between Julianus or Mother's Sorrow?

DarkAedin · August 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Trexton wrote: »

Ebon and that 1k can be the difference in life or death, nothing is going to prevent the one shot, but as a tank it should be about helping your group.

Ok, name me an example where that 1k has saved you. Please, I'm serious and not being snarky.

And wearing Alkosh does help the group a lot, and means I lost a set of armor that could be making me more resistant to dying. So, please, tell me how that 1k is the difference.

Depending on group and amount of synergies going out; I swap my 2nd set between alkosh and imperium, my mindset is similar to urs. Imho imperium goes VERY far. Further then ebons 1k.

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Ok, to everyone - ZOS is making tanking increasingly more difficult. Why must the tank wear a DPS and provide a group buff with no buffs to themselves?

Seriosuly, this was supposed to be about armor, I'm tired of being excluded from trials beause I don't wear Alkosh and Ebon. I can tank these trials just fine, and my groups survive very well.

So let's think outside the box - why must only a few sets be accpetable at end game?

With most trials being about burn, support roles need to support damage. Ebon lets dps run potent or dubius if they need to sustain. Alcosh allow for champion points to be put into damage stars instead of penetration stars. PuGs are rarely picky. But guilds requiring SPC, ebon,worm, and alcosh have the right to. Heck when I am tanking I enjoy the master resto staff. It helps things be easier that's why they are required at endgame.

ccfeeling · August 2017

Put IA into bank , trial set is freaking weak , we spent hour and hour for this freaking set!
Who the hell use eternal war set , I have no idea how u get this job!

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

Ebon is one of the only real good heavy armor tank set in the game compared to all tank sets from trials which are just really bad(2k shield, getting one free death, 15% protection for only 2 random ppl in a 12 ppl grp).

I will agree that most tank sets suck. I do run 3 piece Eternal Warrior for the 5% damage reduction. If ZOS insists on making PvE tanking difficult to baby PvP, and PvE groups insist tanks not protect themselves... how about making tanking sets that do something?

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

With most trials being about burn, support roles need to support damage.

Ok, on Valariel, I'm doing the best I can by keeping her big ice one-shot on me. Can my DPS do me a favor and not stand in the mushrooms and watch out for the red spots at your feet? With too many deaths, the healers aren't healing, DPS aren't DPSing and it goes poorly. With groups that actually watch and move it goes much better. An armor set can't take the place of being aware. Also, maybe we should also talk about 50k DPS - I know that's what guilds want, but is that what the devs are thinking of? Are we trying to play the game "wrong"?

That's mostly a rhetorical question, in before 50 replies telling me I'm wrong BECAUSE.

FoolishHuman · August 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

The problem with this dev comment, in my mind, is that it essentially equates all sets. I don't see why Trials sets should be equally as powerful as crafted or other dropped PvE sets. it should go: Trials > Dungeon > Crafted > Overland.

If I can beat trials without the sets, what do I need the sets for after the trial? That doesn't make any sense. The best gear needs to be acquirable before going into the hardest content or it's useless.

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

The problem with this dev comment, in my mind, is that it essentially equates all sets. I don't see why Trials sets should be equally as powerful as crafted or other dropped PvE sets. it should go: Trials > Dungeon > Crafted > Overland.

If I can beat trials without the sets, what do I need the sets for after the trial? That doesn't make any sense. The best gear needs to be acquirable before going into the hardest content or it's useless.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^

I have to grind norm trials to get gear I HAVE to wear for vet. So very backwards.

ccfeeling · August 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

The problem with this dev comment, in my mind, is that it essentially equates all sets. I don't see why Trials sets should be equally as powerful as crafted or other dropped PvE sets. it should go: Trials > Dungeon > Crafted > Overland.

If I can beat trials without the sets, what do I need the sets for after the trial? That doesn't make any sense. The best gear needs to be acquirable before going into the hardest content or it's useless.

Yes , this is logic !!!

Feanor · August 2017

Sets are just there to keep the player base other than RPers and very casual players grinding. The changes made to them are for no other reason. And if you're not into the top 1% you can just stop grinding and instead try enjoying the game. Much healthier too.

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Sets are just there to keep the player base other than RPers and very casual players grinding. The changes made to them are for no other reason. And if you're not into the top 1% you can just stop grinding and instead try enjoying the game. Much healthier too.

I enjoy tanking trials. However, pug groups for vet trails ... just don't work. So, how about we make end game about enjoying the game?

Mettaricana · August 2017

Trexton wrote: »

Ebon and that 1k can be the difference in life or death, nothing is going to prevent the one shot, but as a tank it should be about helping your group.

Never been saved by ebon and using it didnt stop healers from dpsing in red did better with plague and pact and a group just paying attention

XGCAlbatr0ss · August 2017

In trials main tank should use a set for his benefit and group DPS benefit I.e plague doctor/alkosh, dragon/alkosh. Main tank should be the one running alkosh because he/she will be head to head with boss and popping all the synergies for the debuff. Now off tank can pretty much run whatever the hell he/she wants. In my groups trials I wear dragon/alkosh for most fights as main tank and my off tank will run ebon/ alkosh or ebon/war machine or ebon/ lunarbastion depending on the trial and fight. Remember being a tank you are a support role and need to support the team. Tank sets in this game are actually great, you really only need one tank set on yourself to tank anything, the off set can be whatever the group needs the most. But those who say alkosh is stupid to run on a tank have obviously never tanked or ever ran with a competent trials group. That debuff is incredible and uptime is ridiculous.

dpencil1 · August 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

The problem with this dev comment, in my mind, is that it essentially equates all sets. I don't see why Trials sets should be equally as powerful as crafted or other dropped PvE sets. it should go: Trials > Dungeon > Crafted > Overland.

If I can beat trials without the sets, what do I need the sets for after the trial? That doesn't make any sense. The best gear needs to be acquirable before going into the hardest content or it's useless.

I never said Trials should be impossible without Trials sets. But completing Trials should be rewarding and the gear you get should make you more powerful. It should lead to being able to clear content faster.

DPShiro · August 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

The problem with this dev comment, in my mind, is that it essentially equates all sets. I don't see why Trials sets should be equally as powerful as crafted or other dropped PvE sets. it should go: Trials > Dungeon > Crafted > Overland.

If I can beat trials without the sets, what do I need the sets for after the trial? That doesn't make any sense. The best gear needs to be acquirable before going into the hardest content or it's useless.

I never said Trials should be impossible without Trials sets. But completing Trials should be rewarding and the gear you get should make you more powerful. It should lead to being able to clear content faster.

This^

theamazingx · August 2017

Ebon is helpful for dps to hit the commonly accepted 18k health mark to buffer the heavy unavoidable spike damage that exists in hardmode trials. Support should already be keeping the stat portion of Warhorn up 100%, and better Major Force uptime is secondary to group survivability. There is no "Watching your feet" when someone in the melee of Mage HM has to deal with an Atro execute, chain lightning, and a meteor at the same time.