Eso is a very unique mmo pvp wise, should there be more like it?

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

The definition of normal mmo's is a tank, healer, and dps. A dps is usually long range mage type, tank is sword and board guy with tons of health that can't kill things, and a healer does nothing but heal. But in eso which is the only mmo I've ever seen where a healer, a tank, and a dps can 1vx multiple players due to skill. Isn't that pretty cool? Do you think more mmo's should be like this?

sadownik · August 2017

I wonder what are you talking about?

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

sadownik wrote: »

I wonder what are you talking about?

Do you think mmo's should follow elder scrolls online' version of pvp?

sadownik · August 2017

@Micah_Bayer in what way it is unique?

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

sadownik wrote: »

@Micah_Bayer in what way it is unique?

The fact that you can 1vx other players regardless what role you play. In other mmos the most you can take on is like two players from what I've played. But in this eso you can take on multiple players as one player.

IcyDeadPeople · August 2017

In the past I played some multiplayer fps games and TES single player games, but never imagined anything remotely like ESO's pvp system.

Not sure exactly what the specific appeal is, but it's managed to keep my interest for a long time, more fun than anything else so far. Tried a few other MMOs after ESO but got bored pretty quickly.

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

In the past I played some multiplayer fps games and TES single player games, but never imagined anything remotely like ESO's pvp system.

Not sure exactly what the specific appeal is, but it's managed to keep my interest for a long time, more fun than anything else so far. Tried a few other MMOs after ESO but got bored pretty quickly.

That's exactly how I feel.

Thrymbauld · August 2017

One of the things I don't particularly like about the game is that it is NOT unique.

Meta? Check.
Meta changes, but doesn't go away, virtually every "balance" patch? Check.
Classes, often pigeonholed into roles either because they are the best choices for it or lackluster at other things? Check.
Gear that further pigeonholes? Check.
Trinity with rudimentary aggro system? Check.
Illusion of spec freedom, but actual performance says otherwise? Check.

Not that it's all bad, mind. I like the game and enjoy playing it. It's just that the one word I'd never use to describe what they've made here is not "unique".

RupzSkooma · August 2017

Of course but I don't want it to happen. I want ESO to thrive . Because I love elder scrolls and not really into MMO. But I still love ESO. Another MMORPG doing that will take the player base from this game like this game did to guild wars 2 wvwvw PvP players . Even if another game do a PVP which is more flexible than ESO , I still won't give that MMORPG a chance unless it is in Nirn cause I can't stick to any other MMORPG for long enough to do the good stuffs.

But I am pretty sure it will happen sooner or later.

Sylosi · August 2017

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

The definition of normal mmo's is a tank, healer, and dps. A dps is usually long range mage type, tank is sword and board guy with tons of health that can't kill things, and a healer does nothing but heal. But in eso which is the only mmo I've ever seen where a healer, a tank, and a dps can 1vx multiple players due to skill. Isn't that pretty cool? Do you think more mmo's should be like this?

Not quite sure what you mean, but if you are talking about classes that aren't traditional fixed roles like tank, heal, DPS, etc then no ESO is not unique, there have been quite a few MMOs that don't follow the standard WOW type "trinity", Guild Wars 2 for example.

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

Sylosi wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

The definition of normal mmo's is a tank, healer, and dps. A dps is usually long range mage type, tank is sword and board guy with tons of health that can't kill things, and a healer does nothing but heal. But in eso which is the only mmo I've ever seen where a healer, a tank, and a dps can 1vx multiple players due to skill. Isn't that pretty cool? Do you think more mmo's should be like this?

Not quite sure what you mean, but if you are talking about classes that aren't traditional fixed roles like tank, heal, DPS, etc then no ESO is not unique, there have been quite a few MMOs that don't follow the standard WOW type "trinity", Guild Wars 2 for example.

I'm talking about pvp you can be any class and still play quite well depending on your skill hence you can take on more than 2 players if you're good enough.

Sylosi · August 2017

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

The definition of normal mmo's is a tank, healer, and dps. A dps is usually long range mage type, tank is sword and board guy with tons of health that can't kill things, and a healer does nothing but heal. But in eso which is the only mmo I've ever seen where a healer, a tank, and a dps can 1vx multiple players due to skill. Isn't that pretty cool? Do you think more mmo's should be like this?

Not quite sure what you mean, but if you are talking about classes that aren't traditional fixed roles like tank, heal, DPS, etc then no ESO is not unique, there have been quite a few MMOs that don't follow the standard WOW type "trinity", Guild Wars 2 for example.

I'm talking about pvp you can be any class and still play quite well depending on your skill hence you can take on more than 2 players if you're good enough.

You can do that in pretty much any MMORPG that doesn't have a very rigid limited class system, people do it in GW2, Rift, and so on, it is also less skillful at times to do in a game like ESO (than for example GW2) in that ESO has quite large power differences between players because of stuff like CP.

Also 1vX isn't really about skill, I mean yeah players that do that are obviously competent, but really it is about the 'X' players being not very good, having bad builds or simply builds that are designed for group play not fighting some guy in a build specifically designed for 1vX.

Really if you want skill you are in the wrong game and the wrong genre, skilled PvP isn't about fighting 'x' worse players, it is about playing competitive PvP against players around the same skill level, in a game with a reasonably high skill cap, that does not exist in ESO,

sadownik · August 2017

@Micah_Bayer again, its not unique to ESO at all.

KingYogi415 · August 2017

It is impossible to 1vx even 2 people who are at your own skill.

Don't stand around light attacking then get mad when some1 blows you up because they notice you have 0 shields or buffs up.

Cheers!

Sheyta · August 2017

...

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

Sheyta wrote: »

...

The jack of all trades I think is a good model. I like that a tank can be a dps at the same time. It's more diversity. As a dps in other games you die so fast it really is a specific class. Other classes trump that class or you have to be a specific type to beat that type. You don't have a chance to beat a class if it's the one that counters your class. That is why I like eso.

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

It is impossible to 1vx even 2 people who are at your own skill.

Don't stand around light attacking then get mad when some1 blows you up because they notice you have 0 shields or buffs up.

Cheers!

Yes but in eso you can do it in such a way other games don't allow you like "blowing someone up in seconds because they failed to react."

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

sadownik wrote: »

@Micah_Bayer again, its not unique to ESO at all.

Eso is unique. No other game out has quite the pvp eso has.

WhiteMage · August 2017

Frankly I consider the ability to 1vX in ESO a flaw in the combat system. The TTK is far too low and the power gap is quite large. I prefer a combat system where a fight is the sum of its parts as opposed to the capitalization on a moment of weakness. I want the whole battle to showcase your skill from start to finish. In ESO, you win because the other person tripped or just plain isn't up to the challenge in terms of power, and the only thing you can be concerned about is the now: I need to dodge that frag NOW; I need to blockcast a heal NOW; I need to LoS them NOW; his health is low, I need to ult him NOW. In games with lower TTK and less OP healing, you can mind how the battle will progress and prepare for it. Ok, that healer has a strong heal with a long CD. Let's all attack this other guy suddenly to make the healer blow his CD and then switch and use our CDs on him to kill him. That mage has a very damaging AoE with a long cast time that can wreck our group, so let's have one of our guys go harass him so he can't fire it off. Etc. Etc.

Often, in these games 1 player = 1 player. This type of thing is important to facilitate better gameplay in general.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2017

I guess I'm missing something. In all mmos Ive played, a whole bunch of them, it is possible to 1vx.

But the X have to be worse then the 1. And that is true here as well as all the others. Even in the games where people consider some classes counter classes or counter builds, that only matters if they are good. And the way you 1vX is by finding a bad X.

Like me for example. Im in all sorts of 1vX. Im usually laying on the ground with 10 other people as the 1 walks away, wondering if I should log out so no one sees me.

Just the same as I was in all the other mmos Ive played.

fastolfv_ESO · August 2017

eso pvp is a kockoff of daoc but watered down theres zero unique about it, and for the guy that said the WoW trinity your showin your age buddy thats been around since the start of mmo gaming

KingYogi415 · August 2017

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

It is impossible to 1vx even 2 people who are at your own skill.

Don't stand around light attacking then get mad when some1 blows you up because they notice you have 0 shields or buffs up.

Cheers!

Yes but in eso you can do it in such a way other games don't allow you like "blowing someone up in seconds because they failed to react."

If you let all your buffs fall off you die very easily. It's a basic game mechanic that is true for people of all skill...

Rygonix · August 2017

Not many online games out there where a magickal staff is anything other than a "stat stick" strapped to your back.

But in my opinion every mmo out there is unique in it's own way. I tend to join mmo's expecting a certain "structure" to it that I am familiar with, but beyond that I have not many expectations.

Each mmo I play has a totally unique kind of playerbase with certain personalities I eventually Identify as unique to that game. It's odd, but cool.

And yes what I am referring to is pvp.

IcyDeadPeople · August 2017

WhiteMage wrote: »

Frankly I consider the ability to 1vX in ESO a flaw in the combat system. The TTK is far too low and the power gap is quite large. I prefer a combat system where a fight is the sum of its parts as opposed to the capitalization on a moment of weakness. I want the whole battle to showcase your skill from start to finish. In ESO, you win because the other person tripped or just plain isn't up to the challenge in terms of power, and the only thing you can be concerned about is the now: I need to dodge that frag NOW; I need to blockcast a heal NOW; I need to LoS them NOW; his health is low, I need to ult him NOW. In games with lower TTK and less OP healing, you can mind how the battle will progress and prepare for it. Ok, that healer has a strong heal with a long CD. Let's all attack this other guy suddenly to make the healer blow his CD and then switch and use our CDs on him to kill him. That mage has a very damaging AoE with a long cast time that can wreck our group, so let's have one of our guys go harass him so he can't fire it off. Etc. Etc.

Often, in these games 1 player = 1 player. This type of thing is important to facilitate better gameplay in general.

I have seen a couple people recently complaining that TTK (time to kill) is too short.

I find the opposite to be true. Any 2 skilled players 1v1 can keep fighting for a really long time, sometimes forever and then they just agree to walk away. TTK is too long in my view.

TTK is very short if someone without a lot of experience in PVP gets ganked, but once they spend time practicing and develop PVP build, learn how to manage resources etc, they can last a long time in most fights.

MakoFore · August 2017

i thnk the combat system in many ways is more like a moba than an mmo.
we only get 5 skills on each bar- not 20 or something- there isnt a detail on micro figthing- in terms of block up , block down, strike up strike down- but rather skills that affect area and teammates- as well as enemies. i find the combat in both pve and pvp very satisfying and visceral.

Honghua · August 2017

Thrymbauld wrote: »

One of the things I don't particularly like about the game is that it is NOT unique.

Meta? Check.
Meta changes, but doesn't go away, virtually every "balance" patch? Check.
Classes, often pigeonholed into roles either because they are the best choices for it or lackluster at other things? Check.
Gear that further pigeonholes? Check.
Trinity with rudimentary aggro system? Check.
Illusion of spec freedom, but actual performance says otherwise? Check.

Not that it's all bad, mind. I like the game and enjoy playing it. It's just that the one word I'd never use to describe what they've made here is not "unique".

You could say it about every single game out there with pvp.
In eso, even if you play an underdog bosmer or nord, you are not useless, the differences between specifed item sets and between races are really low to the point, where one second of CC or a single mistake in abilities rotation is able to equalize both characters pretty easly.
And now after sharpened being nerfed and the last patch there are in fact more options to choose from in gear overall.
Classes are also being better balanced nowadays.
Do you remember godlike DK? Jesus beam? Sunfire tank? Magicka sorcer aka "joke"?

Animus-ESO · August 2017

Thrymbauld wrote: »

One of the things I don't particularly like about the game is that it is NOT unique.

Meta? Check.
Meta changes, but doesn't go away, virtually every "balance" patch? Check.
Classes, often pigeonholed into roles either because they are the best choices for it or lackluster at other things? Check.
Gear that further pigeonholes? Check.
Trinity with rudimentary aggro system? Check.
Illusion of spec freedom, but actual performance says otherwise? Check.

Not that it's all bad, mind. I like the game and enjoy playing it. It's just that the one word I'd never use to describe what they've made here is not "unique".

Dude your smoking too much crack. No mmo has pvp like eso aside from BDO. Having cool downs and 50 hot bars is tedious as *** and not skillful at all. ESO's combat shines a light on MECHANICAL skill and the ability to react to a shifting battlefield intelligently. If you think you can just put on a good build and mash buttons and win then you're stupid. If you build a pure tank, im going to ignore you and kill all your friends. ESO has no true roles when it comes to pvp. Everyone needs to be able to survive on their own or they are doomed at the beginning of the fight.

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

Honghua wrote: »

Thrymbauld wrote: »

One of the things I don't particularly like about the game is that it is NOT unique.

Meta? Check.
Meta changes, but doesn't go away, virtually every "balance" patch? Check.
Classes, often pigeonholed into roles either because they are the best choices for it or lackluster at other things? Check.
Gear that further pigeonholes? Check.
Trinity with rudimentary aggro system? Check.
Illusion of spec freedom, but actual performance says otherwise? Check.

Not that it's all bad, mind. I like the game and enjoy playing it. It's just that the one word I'd never use to describe what they've made here is not "unique".

You could say it about every single game out there with pvp.
In eso, even if you play an underdog bosmer or nord, you are not useless, the differences between specifed item sets and between races are really low to the point, where one second of CC or a single mistake in abilities rotation is able to equalize both characters pretty easly.
And now after sharpened being nerfed and the last patch there are in fact more options to choose from in gear overall.
Classes are also being better balanced nowadays.
Do you remember godlike DK? Jesus beam? Sunfire tank? Magicka sorcer aka "joke"?

Good post.

Micah_Bayer · August 2017

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

Thrymbauld wrote: »

One of the things I don't particularly like about the game is that it is NOT unique.

Meta? Check.
Meta changes, but doesn't go away, virtually every "balance" patch? Check.
Classes, often pigeonholed into roles either because they are the best choices for it or lackluster at other things? Check.
Gear that further pigeonholes? Check.
Trinity with rudimentary aggro system? Check.
Illusion of spec freedom, but actual performance says otherwise? Check.

Not that it's all bad, mind. I like the game and enjoy playing it. It's just that the one word I'd never use to describe what they've made here is not "unique".

Dude your smoking too much crack. No mmo has pvp like eso aside from BDO. Having cool downs and 50 hot bars is tedious as *** and not skillful at all. ESO's combat shines a light on MECHANICAL skill and the ability to react to a shifting battlefield intelligently. If you think you can just put on a good build and mash buttons and win then you're stupid. If you build a pure tank, im going to ignore you and kill all your friends. ESO has no true roles when it comes to pvp. Everyone needs to be able to survive on their own or they are doomed at the beginning of the fight.

Good post.

Solariken · August 2017

I almost wrote this off as another #nerfsorc thread in disguise until I noticed who the OP was.

I have my opinions on this and @WhiteMage framed it well. The sad and scary truth about ESO's game design is that there is no game design.

I appreciate what they wanted to do by breaking free of the typical MMO role archetypes, but they weren't diligent in any area of importance and basically just cooked up a bunch of half-baked abilities and spread them over some poorly-planned skill lines, all in a combat system that was all designed with all boons and no banes.

Thogard · August 2017

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

eso pvp is a kockoff of daoc but watered down theres zero unique about it, and for the guy that said the WoW trinity your showin your age buddy thats been around since the start of mmo gaming

It is uncanny how similar ESO PvP is to DAoC

I wonder if that's because Matt Firor directed both games