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[FIXED] BOUNTY FOR KILLING HARD NPCs BUGGED AFTER HOTR PATCH
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Left4Daud✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »...sounds good to me!
If it wasn't intentional, they bloody well ought to make it so!
It fits perfectly with the setting, that killing someone important would bring a higher bounty... and its you yourself after all who decides which crimes to committ, right?
Can't pay the fine? Don't do the crime! (or at least don't get caught...)
Hello, thanks for posting. I don't disagree with you but please understand why I brought this issue up.
The increase in bounty was never the issue here. I thought I was bringing a bug or unintended change in the Justice System to the devs attention, which you can glean from my earlier posts. In one such post I linked the relevant section of the patch notes that pertained to nobles. It mentioned they were now harder to "steal" from, which sounds like a pickpocket thing - not "they now give you more bounty when killed." If the devs meant for different class NPCs to give different amounts of bounty when killed that is fine, but it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, and if it was it wasn't very clear.
So for the last time they could make the bounty 50g for killing a Noble, or they could make the bounty 50,000g for killing a Noble I don't care. I just wanted to know if an unmentioned, unclear change to the Justice System was an intended one and I thought bringing it to their attention would be worth it. Edited by Left4Daud on August 19, 2017 9:21PM6 -
Vizikul✭✭✭✭this change could be a counteract to all those players that constantly slaughter the nobles within a town in an attempt to farm those legendary throne recipes.Pugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist0 -
Jamini✭✭✭✭✭@Left4Daud
Sadly we can't have the other side of the justice system because then our edgy 12-year-old "Hardcore psycopath assassins" would complain viciously about having to deal with the natural consequence of crime from dawn until dusk no matter how much said system could be made to give them the advantage."Adapt. or Die."1 -
Left4Daud✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Left4Daud
Sadly we can't have the other side of the justice system because then our edgy 12-year-old "Hardcore psycopath assassins" would complain viciously about having to deal with the natural consequence of crime from dawn until dusk no matter how much said system could be made to give them the advantage.
If only the PVP component to the Justice System was OPTIONAL (OFF BY DEFAULT) - and criminals had a way to do COMMUNITY SERVICE as a way to amend their ways. Yes as it is now it barely makes sense and is passable at the lowest standard...
It's more of an Injustice System than a Justice System lol2 -
Jamini✭✭✭✭✭@Left4Daud
Sadly we can't have the other side of the justice system because then our edgy 12-year-old "Hardcore psycopath assassins" would complain viciously about having to deal with the natural consequence of crime from dawn until dusk no matter how much said system could be made to give them the advantage.
If only the PVP component to the Justice System was OPTIONAL (OFF BY DEFAULT) - and criminals had a way to do COMMUNITY SERVICE as a way to amend their ways. Yes as it is now it barely makes sense and is passable at the lowest standard...
It's more of an Injustice System than a Justice System lol
Personally, I've always advocated a tabard-style item given to vigilantes that flags them as a neutral PvP target to everyone and allows them to attack notorious (not disreputable or upstanding) criminals only. Naturally attacking a player with a tabard should result in a higher bounty for the attacker (flagging them immediately as notorious). Death should count as dying to a guard (you pay your bounty and lose your stolen items immediately), and the vigilantie should gain a special form of currency for catching criminals in this manner.
Solves a lot of issues without creating new ones.
1. Thieves who do not get caught often don't get bounties, never need to worry about vigilanties coming for them.
2. Thieves who become notorious (which is KOS by guards) can clear it with fence as normal.
3. If a player has an issue with a Justicar, they can attack the Juticar (who is opting in for PvP)
4. Mass-murderers and bad thieves who get caught only get caught once and end up paying their bounties off.
Some fallback for people that run out of gold when stealing should be taken into account for any PvP. In that edge case, losing a level of your bounty (without decreasing the value) might be appropriate.Edited by Jamini on August 17, 2017 3:59PM"Adapt. or Die."2 -
FLambda✭✭✭
I, personally am still waiting on player-enforced bounties.puffytheslayer wrote: »interesting point - this could be a bid to make those gold edicts have a use
only 1 of my characeters ever found a use for hers, and thats cause she stayed at the wedding reception a little 2 long looking for a bubbler pattern (completing the quest -line to get the edict with her bounty was... interesting shall we say)
Honestly the Justice System is an unfinished mess that could have been so much better and will probably never be properly overhauled or revamped.
—Snip—
Anyways tagging the devs again and shamelessly bumping this thread one last time before giving up on trying to get an answer.
I know you guys are swamped but can you pretty please just let me know if this was an intended change and so I don't feel like speaking up was a waste of time?
Thanks
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
Remember: there's no such thing as the Universal Standard of Descriptional Qualifications and Metrics.
The Wisdom of M'aiq the Liar:- You wish to become a lich? It's very easy, my friend. Simply find the heart of a lich, combine it with the tongue of a dragon, and cook it with the flesh of a well-ridden horse. This combination is certain to make you undead.
- M'aiq prefers to adventure alone. Others just get in the way. And they talk, talk, talk.
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bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭sadly the lack of confirmation as to whether this was intended or not is perfectly normal!
a few diffrent things could of happened here- they are too busy and havent noticed the thread
- they have noticed the thread, they dont know if it was intended, dont know who to ask, so ignoring it hoping someone else will deal with it
- they have noticed the thread, it is not intended, and are currently decideing whether or not to fix it or dress it up as a new feature
Edited by bebynnag on August 17, 2017 6:12PM3 - they are too busy and havent noticed the thread
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purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭True story. Outrageous bounty killing the one of the mages in Deshaan Mages guild (there's two in the one room adjacent to the daily quest giver). Like 3500g or something like that. He really worth that much? Lol!
I thought it was just me.Edited by purple-magicb16_ESO on August 17, 2017 6:51PMI don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]1 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Left4Daud
Sadly we can't have the other side of the justice system because then our edgy 12-year-old "Hardcore psycopath assassins" would complain viciously about having to deal with the natural consequence of crime from dawn until dusk no matter how much said system could be made to give them the advantage.
Firstly, I think if ZOS increased or changed the bounty they should say so. When something could legitimately be a bug, but you don't know due to lack of feedback, is indeed very frustrating.
Secondly, I have played mmo's for longer than I care to admit, but in all that time I don't think I've ever run across such a high percentage of folks that seem to enjoy intentionally hurting others ... and defending their right to do so. I wish this game had an option to "play to the dark side" or "play to the light side" ... where you could accumulate points that effected things in the game. For example, reaching a certain level of points to the "light side" would increase the amount of gold you got from NPC merchants by X%, or perhaps, reaching a certain level of points on the "dark side" would increase your running speed (pve areas) by X%.1 -
FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭@Left4Daud
Sadly we can't have the other side of the justice system because then our edgy 12-year-old "Hardcore psycopath assassins" would complain viciously about having to deal with the natural consequence of crime from dawn until dusk no matter how much said system could be made to give them the advantage.
If only the PVP component to the Justice System was OPTIONAL (OFF BY DEFAULT) - and criminals had a way to do COMMUNITY SERVICE as a way to amend their ways. Yes as it is now it barely makes sense and is passable at the lowest standard...
It's more of an Injustice System than a Justice System lol
Personally, I've always advocated a tabard-style item given to vigilantes that flags them as a neutral PvP target to everyone and allows them to attack notorious (not disreputable or upstanding) criminals only. Naturally attacking a player with a tabard should result in a higher bounty for the attacker (flagging them immediately as notorious). Death should count as dying to a guard (you pay your bounty and lose your stolen items immediately), and the vigilantie should gain a special form of currency for catching criminals in this manner.
Solves a lot of issues without creating new ones.
1. Thieves who do not get caught often don't get bounties, never need to worry about vigilanties coming for them.
2. Thieves who become notorious (which is KOS by guards) can clear it with fence as normal.
3. If a player has an issue with a Justicar, they can attack the Juticar (who is opting in for PvP)
4. Mass-murderers and bad thieves who get caught only get caught once and end up paying their bounties off.
Some fallback for people that run out of gold when stealing should be taken into account for any PvP. In that edge case, losing a level of your bounty (without decreasing the value) might be appropriate.
Would we be able to steal from these people then? Because if the justice system becomes a pvp matter then the crime system should as well. If crime is pve only then justice should too.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It had been fun, however see problems, yes you would require an decent crime level to be legal to hunt, so towns don't turn into oblivion style mob scenes if some pick up something by mistake.
However main issue, would be that either the lawless would be able to hit first or not.
First strike would let them gank new players in starting areas.
Not would let other just follow them, waiting for them to be engaged and having taken some damage before dropping ultimate.
Neither setting would be very fun with lot of grieving potential.
Raising bounty of killing however is realistic, punishment for murder is some magnitude higher than pickpocket.
And have some guard protect Hadran’s Caravan, think of the kittens.
Khajiit thinking that pickpocket targets should be shared an reused.
Also don't get bounty, it's stupid.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mages in Vvardenfell get you a 1,000+ gold bounty when killed as well now.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭im confused. there are two things that can happen here:
1. you dont get seen and get no bounty. your response to that was: Again, gaining and paying bounty is part of the achievement system...which means being witnessed. to me, this says you want to be seen to get a bounty for the achievement. so not being seen is no problem.
2. you do get seen and get a bounty. doesnt this increased bounty make the achievement easier as you accrue bounty faster? so again, no problem.
either way, its not an actual issue unless you dont want to get a bounty. in which case learn to be stealthier.
I'm interested in if the increase was intended or not because there are a few NPCs that are positioned so you will always be seen committing the crime. Before the patch they would just yell for a guard or demand you stop your evil ways. With that you get a 92 gold bounty. Since the patch they are more apt to fight. That was announced as a change and I don't mind the change. It means less loot running my circle but oh well.
After you pickpocket twice instead of pickpocketing a third time it is best for everyone (but the NPC) to just kill them and take the third item. That way you don't have an NPC with empty pockets standing around. They respawn quick so the next evil doer can go about his business. Before it was worth the bounty if you were seen killing an NPC if you were on an extended crime spree. Now it might not be worth it to pop them when there is no way to do it unobserved. This doesn't bother me as I can choose to just skip that NPC or go ahead a pop them. Right now what happens depends on what I am planning to do next. If it is something that will take me to areas where guards might be I move on.
I'm good either way just a small adjustment on my part. I would like to know if the change was planned and just didn't make it into the notes or if it wasn't planned and is going to change. If it was planned I'll continue my daily crime spree with a few adjustments. If it is something that will be changed I might take a break from crime and work on other achievements for a while. I'm getting close (got a late start) to the achievement for fencing a million good worth of goods so one way or the other my crime spree is going to continue. A little info on the bounty changes would help me decide how it is going to continue.
Again don't care either way, would just like to know if it is here to stay or not.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
Left4Daud✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm good either way just a small adjustment on my part. I would like to know if the change was planned and just didn't make it into the notes or if it wasn't planned and is going to change. If it was planned I'll continue my daily crime spree with a few adjustments. If it is something that will be changed I might take a break from crime and work on other achievements for a while. I'm getting close (got a late start) to the achievement for fencing a million good worth of goods so one way or the other my crime spree is going to continue. A little info on the bounty changes would help me decide how it is going to continue.
Again don't care either way, would just like to know if it is here to stay or not.
Yes this is precisely how I feel and why I tried to bring this issue up! I appreciate everyone who has posted and contributed to the discussion about the Justice System. Even if the devs aren't interested in changing the mechanics I do like hearing the different ideas people have. Nothing wrong with imagining what could be, logistics and feasibility aside. Nevertheless I do feel it is a shame that the system we have now, as clearly incomplete as it is, will never be given reconsideration.
Edited by Left4Daud on August 19, 2017 9:23PM1 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good change nobles should be higher bounty.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.0 -
Left4Daud✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good change nobles should be higher bounty.
It's fine if that is what the devs want. But some clarification on their vision for the Justice System would be nice and that is all we are really asking for here...
Because it isn't JUST nobles giving these new higher rates. Any NPC target that is classified as "hard" by the Justice System now gives 4620g bounty if witnessed being killed. NPCs classified as "easy/medium" by the Justice System give 924g in bounty. Obviously these numbers change according to your rank in the Dark Brotherhood skill line of course. The values I posted are with 0/4 scales of pitiless justice.Edited by Left4Daud on August 17, 2017 9:38PM1 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Left4Daud
Sadly we can't have the other side of the justice system because then our edgy 12-year-old "Hardcore psycopath assassins" would complain viciously about having to deal with the natural consequence of crime from dawn until dusk no matter how much said system could be made to give them the advantage.
Firstly, I think if ZOS increased or changed the bounty they should say so. When something could legitimately be a bug, but you don't know due to lack of feedback, is indeed very frustrating.
Secondly, I have played mmo's for longer than I care to admit, but in all that time I don't think I've ever run across such a high percentage of folks that seem to enjoy intentionally hurting others ... and defending their right to do so. I wish this game had an option to "play to the dark side" or "play to the light side" ... where you could accumulate points that effected things in the game. For example, reaching a certain level of points to the "light side" would increase the amount of gold you got from NPC merchants by X%, or perhaps, reaching a certain level of points on the "dark side" would increase your running speed (pve areas) by X%.
(oh come on - someone had to!)2 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No reply from ZOS?
bugged or intended?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_BrianWheeler1 -
AdicusDio✭✭✭I've also noticed increased values, but mine are in the 2k range. I think 2400~ range. Happened in Morrowind.
Also noticed completely wonky detection rates. An npc 15' away reading a book when I'm off to the side picking a pocket (Khajiit with everything maxed or reduced) apparently can detect me despite being in full stealth beforehand.
If pickpocket victim agros on me, and I just jold block as they attack, if they die, I can get a stupid high bounty despite never actually striking them (think riposte kills them and sets procing from that).
If this is the new norm, then please add another level or 2 to the skill lines to reduce heat/bounty faster. As it stands now, 4k worth of bounty takes awhile. When values get to the point where you are better logging off for an hour, something is wrong. Stop breaking the core gameplay already. Many of us are looking for reasons to quit. Keeping screwing things up and plenty will.2 -
Left4Daud✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've also noticed increased values, but mine are in the 2k range. I think 2400~ range. Happened in Morrowind.
If this is the new norm, then please add another level or 2 to the skill lines to reduce heat/bounty faster. As it stands now, 4k worth of bounty takes awhile. When values get to the point where you are better logging off for an hour, something is wrong. Stop breaking the core gameplay already. Many of us are looking for reasons to quit. Keeping screwing things up and plenty will.
Your rates are lower because you have points in the Dark Brotherhood Scales of Pitiless Justice passive.
The increased values I posted in the OP are with 0/4 scales of pitiless justice.1 -
VinyParsley2016✭✭✭✭I suggest ZOS raise the bounty to 10000 Gold to prevent greedy ppl kill Nobles all day.0
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Left4Daud✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hello! The devs have confirmed that this is indeed a bug and they will be looking to tune these values back to where they were before HotR.
Gina's official statement is in the linked thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/366383/justice-system-major-crimes-causing-much-more-bounty-than-previously-is-this-working-as-intended#latest
Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno for your response on this matter.Edited by Left4Daud on August 18, 2017 4:26PM3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Wrong pickpocket loot is instanced.After you pickpocket twice instead of pickpocketing a third time it is best for everyone (but the NPC) to just kill them and take the third item. That way you don't have an NPC with empty pockets standing around. They respawn quick so the next evil doer can go about his business. Before it was worth the bounty if you were seen killing an NPC if you were on an extended crime spree. Now it might not be worth it to pop them when there is no way to do it unobserved. This doesn't bother me as I can choose to just skip that NPC or go ahead a pop them. Right now what happens depends on what I am planning to do next. If it is something that will take me to areas where guards might be I move on.
Have you ever run into an NPC with empty inventory? That you have not pickpocket before and forgot.
have had multiple players pickpocket the same target, lady citing on chair outside TG in hews bane might be the best place to observe this.
An load door like the thief guild will reset npc inventory.
Killing them forces all others to wait.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hello! The devs have confirmed that this is indeed a bug and they will be looking to tune these values back to where they were before HotR.
Gina's official statement is in the linked thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/366383/justice-system-major-crimes-causing-much-more-bounty-than-previously-is-this-working-as-intended#latest
Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno for your response on this matter.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4435414/#Comment_44354140
