Gilliam's critique of new update

  • Bowser
    Bowser
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    Is it really a surprise that ZOS fails to identify cause and effect, and they can't math?

    Why would they when they have unpaid interns YouTubers that do it all for them?
    @King-Koopa
    World First DK Tank Execute on Rakkhat HM
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  • Betsararie
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    Bowser wrote: »
    Is it really a surprise that ZOS fails to identify cause and effect, and they can't math?

    Why would they when they have unpaid interns YouTubers that do it all for them?

    LOL.
  • TomoTomo
    TomoTomo
    Take a deep breath. MMO balance isn't something you achieve. It's more like a journey that never ends.

    It is constantly evolving and changing. That is just the reality of creating and running an MMO.

    Try to chill before the devs end up like Blizzards. Full of contempt for their own customers.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    TomoTomo wrote: »
    Take a deep breath. MMO balance isn't something you achieve. It's more like a journey that never ends.

    It is constantly evolving and changing. That is just the reality of creating and running an MMO.

    Try to chill before the devs end up like Blizzards. Full of contempt for their own customers.

    I would rather they did, and left.

    This is not an adequate reason to stop pushing them to do a better job. Because the current balance is atrocious, and has been for ages. needless changes and nonsensical 'solutions' to problems that nobody wanted fixed.

    They. Need. To. Learn. By feedback or by profit loss.
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    In short, crit builds always getting the shaft be it pve or pvp.

    I'd like a rebalanced of proc sets and let them crit again.

    Kind of a shame being that crit resistance in pvp is a bit of an equalizer. You'd actually be able to have something hitting hard in pve using crits that wouldn't be as strong in pvp because of impen if it was done right.

    Mainly I'm not a fan of rolling out changes without testing or input, which is what they've done with a lot of these changes. It went from a few things needing tweaked to be balanced well and achieve the goal they wanted - which was a lot of set variety being good to making several sets, stones, enchants not even worth running. So close, but once again gg zos.
    -- @xaraan --
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  • TomoTomo
    TomoTomo
    TomoTomo wrote: »
    Take a deep breath. MMO balance isn't something you achieve. It's more like a journey that never ends.

    It is constantly evolving and changing. That is just the reality of creating and running an MMO.

    Try to chill before the devs end up like Blizzards. Full of contempt for their own customers.

    I would rather they did, and left.

    This is not an adequate reason to stop pushing them to do a better job. Because the current balance is atrocious, and has been for ages. needless changes and nonsensical 'solutions' to problems that nobody wanted fixed.

    They. Need. To. Learn. By feedback or by profit loss.

    Yeah, keep up the awful attitude and I promise you they will continue to ignore whatever it is you have to say. No one is going to read hundreds of posts everyday from people just bashing them nonstop with the mentality of a tween.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    TomoTomo wrote: »
    TomoTomo wrote: »
    Take a deep breath. MMO balance isn't something you achieve. It's more like a journey that never ends.

    It is constantly evolving and changing. That is just the reality of creating and running an MMO.

    Try to chill before the devs end up like Blizzards. Full of contempt for their own customers.

    I would rather they did, and left.

    This is not an adequate reason to stop pushing them to do a better job. Because the current balance is atrocious, and has been for ages. needless changes and nonsensical 'solutions' to problems that nobody wanted fixed.

    They. Need. To. Learn. By feedback or by profit loss.

    Yeah, keep up the awful attitude and I promise you they will continue to ignore whatever it is you have to say. No one is going to read hundreds of posts everyday from people just bashing them nonstop with the mentality of a tween.

    They continue to ignore what we have to say even when there is no hostility. Gilliam is a perfect example of this. The man made a about hour long video with comprehensive, nonthreatening feedback, and was blatently ignored. This was reguarding the sustain changed with morrowind.

    They were never going to lisen. Your appeasement attitude is weakness. I will continue to tell people how it is, and to tell them if they want change, they must financially impact ZOS to the point where the problem people get fired. That is the only way this gets fixed.

    The problem is mismanagement. The only way to cure mismanagement is to change managers.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 15, 2017 3:43AM
  • Dekrypt
    Dekrypt
    Soul Shriven
    I don't have a big elaborate argument or comment to let ZOS know that I have been playing since the beginning and that I am thankful for a mostly functional game that I have sunk a lot of time into, BUT I will say that if you, ZOS, expect to earn trust from your community then you should invest more trust in those of us that put valuable time in the game and give insight to improve it. In this I believe you have erred drastically by seemingly throwing caution to the wind and valuable input aside, going LIVE with untested changes and content. It's a shame you did that, and I'm sure it will all work out, but I agree @Gilliamtherogue. His and other's efforts and time are appreciated by the community. ZOS should do the same even more so.
  • Thunderknuckles
    Thunderknuckles
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    Haven't been able to log in yet today. Are you all saying that the stam NB I've been working on for two weeks now to get his crit up is now going to ....underperform? As in, I may now need to re-adjust to another set of armor or whatnot?
  • Anlace
    Anlace
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    TomoTomo wrote: »
    Take a deep breath. MMO balance isn't something you achieve. It's more like a journey that never ends.

    It is constantly evolving and changing. That is just the reality of creating and running an MMO.

    Try to chill before the devs end up like Blizzards. Full of contempt for their own customers.

    I take it you never watch their Twitch. For at least one of them, that ship sailed long ago.
    Templar - Warden - Sorc
    all magicka all the time
  • LadyLethalla
    LadyLethalla
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    Malic wrote: »
    lets just say I have two observations:

    1. Given the opening paragraph, imagine someone like that having their apple cart upset. He's a bit of a geek, its not a put down its meant in a positive light but its clearly an overreaction. He's talking about things being "nerfed to oblivion" which they werent.

    Except... as he points out in the video, he tested and tested on the PTS after every HOTR patch and worked out what was BiS. So to have these nerfs on live, that make what time was spent testing, would be a kick in the face.


    My own opinion is that someone at ZoS saw his and other like videos and went, "Hey, they've announced what's going to be BiS when HOTR goes live. Let's really **** with them and nerf every set/ trait/ mundus that was mentioned!!" (Trollface)

    Mother's Sorrow, Shadow, Infused, even Twice Fanged were all mentioned in a previous Gilliam PTS video.
    x-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
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  • Publius_Scipio
    Publius_Scipio
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    Gilliam is extremely powerful. One of the best minds in the community. At the same time, I am impressed ZOS reacted as fast as they did to fix things like torug's with infused etc. that's a good thing.
  • Kurkikohtaus
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    Gilliam is contradicting himself.

    In the video, he is saying that "build diversity" is out the window after the live changes.

    But if the changes had not happened, EVERY SINGLE SORC would be using Julianos/Mothers Sorrow/Shadow. How is THAT build diversity?
  • Slack
    Slack
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    What I always wonder is why people open threads, linking YouTube videos of some guy.
    And write things like "he said that...."

    When he wanted it to be on forums, he should post it himself.
    But in this case it just looks like someone is longing for their "Idol's" appreciation
    Edited by Slack on August 15, 2017 5:21AM
    PC EU
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  • WeyounTM
    WeyounTM
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    I can only fully agree to what Gilliam said in his video. It is like a slap in the face to change those things in the last minute. And so I am in the same boat as most of you. I was kinda hyped to get my toons into a better place and now feel massively disappointed.
    What is the point in testing things for weeks and then changing it in the last seconds?
    If I were a content creator for this game I would be sooooo angry. Can only admire Gilliam for keeping his cool.

    So yeah, the world isnt ending but it is a massive let down and I can't even bring myself to go into the new dungeons. Damn shame....
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  • hmsdragonfly
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    :O
    Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    #HireGilliam
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Players: All these bonus and mundus changes are really nice. Can't wait to see them on live!

    ZOS when HotR goes live:
    tumblr_m3mshvc46R1rr5lawo2_500.gif

    This had me dead, lmao xD
  • Bevik
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    Gilliam is contradicting himself.

    In the video, he is saying that "build diversity" is out the window after the live changes.

    But if the changes had not happened, EVERY SINGLE SORC would be using Julianos/Mothers Sorrow/Shadow. How is THAT build diversity?

    That. You all should have just checked Alcast magicka builds. They all were the same. After live patch he had to remove the builds.

    That was the setup for mag sorc, mag dk, mag nb.

    Still love Alcast and Gilliam tho. But they is no diversity when 1 setup working for all.
    Edited by Bevik on August 15, 2017 7:24AM
  • Coilbox
    Coilbox
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    Message from ZOS to all the players out there:

    Shut up you moron, i know better.

    @Gilliamtherogue superb as usual. Cheers buddy.
    Comrade, a word...
  • SnubbS
    SnubbS
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    They *** Zo$'d it so hard.

    "I do more damage with Warrior when I crit than I do with Shadow when I crit"

    hahahahahahaha.
    Xbox NA: SnubbS
    GoW eSports player & part time ESO Pug Ball Zerger.
    GB
  • SnubbS
    SnubbS
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    TomoTomo wrote: »

    Try to chill before the devs end up like Blizzards. Full of contempt for their own customers.

    So if we don't chill then we'll get devs from Blizzard?



    Promise?

    201506_2253_fhehb_sm.jpg
    Xbox NA: SnubbS
    GoW eSports player & part time ESO Pug Ball Zerger.
    GB
  • MCBIZZLE300
    MCBIZZLE300
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    Zenimax needs to watch this. I don't want to play the game with a botched last minute nerf since my guild is striving to complete vhof and vmol.
  • MakoFore
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    ZOS are just so clumsy with their changes- like watching a bull in a china shop. this isn't experimental- its mathematical- its logical- its scientific- yet the way they do things is ridiculous- "oh lets try taking a 1000 off this and putting 8 percent into that! no? lets try putting on 1000 and taking away 8 percent!" its stupid. gamers have a finer understanding of their own calculations they they do- its really embarrassing to seem them stumble about each time.

    to me theyre like idiot teens who inherited dads fortune and company. like jerry buss or something. the people that made this fine game have long gone- now we re left with dumpsties who dont know how to balance a game. we all want the same thing- multiple weapons, traits, builds that are viable- but they can't get it right. its been 3 years.

    i want for example to duel 3 people- same skill and class, different builds, and each of us to have an advantage over another- but a disadvantage over someone else- and for it to be contextual as gil says.

    so that if i go into a trial- i might have better damage over light targets- but another dps does more damage aoe- or anther guy does more damage on bosses. each of us needed specific builds and weapons for our tasks. as it is- we ve seen meta- where everyone has the same crap - but it changing to different metas each time- thats just rearranging of the same problems. to condense that- you ADD more Cp to an already overflowing cup of dps increase that is swallowing the content of the game.

    I'm close to being done zos- I've given you so much money and time- but you guys stuff it up time and time again- please make some changes - not to the balance - that is obvious- but to your company, strategy , staff and structure. you're not doing it wrong- its more fundamental- the wrong people are doing it.
  • Nifty2g
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    Gilliam is contradicting himself.

    In the video, he is saying that "build diversity" is out the window after the live changes.

    But if the changes had not happened, EVERY SINGLE SORC would be using Julianos/Mothers Sorrow/Shadow. How is THAT build diversity?
    Did you not watch the whole video? How do you fail to understand that when it was directly addressed?

    There was multiple set ups for different scenarios.
    #MOREORBS
  • Fuxo
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    @Gilliamtherogue If the game provided an easy access to crit chance bonus, PvP builds would still be using impen gear with no real other choices. I mean if there are sets that provide 21% crit chance, shouldn't there be sets to counter that with critical resistance? Those 21% was indeed so over the top that Leviathan set was not even needed as it would provide more than 100% crit chance for many stamina builds. In PvP, you would have builds with high crit chance and high crit damage but many stamina builds have no access to shields to counter that.

    I would really like if the devs changed the Shadow mundus to provide critical resistance bonus instead of damage, which is very situational.
  • LadyDestiny
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    So glad I didn't farm the c**p out of sets or waste legendary mats on new gear for this update.
  • Wrecking_Blow_Spam
    Wrecking_Blow_Spam
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    The sky is falling
    Xbox one EU
    8 Flawless conquerors on all class specs (4 stam, 4 magicka)
    Doesn't stand in red
  • MyKillv2.0
    MyKillv2.0
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    I know it has been said a couple of times but did anyone not see this coming? I was surprised that it happened this quickly but if you run the SAME sets on every magic class, how is that diversity? Especially when none of those sets are trial or new content sets?

    Props to Zo$ for watching PTS and fixing something BEFORE it goes live....wow, what a concept from the company.
  • Kneighbors
    Kneighbors
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    MyKillv2.0 wrote: »
    I know it has been said a couple of times but did anyone not see this coming? I was surprised that it happened this quickly but if you run the SAME sets on every magic class, how is that diversity? Especially when none of those sets are trial or new content sets?

    Props to Zo$ for watching PTS and fixing something BEFORE it goes live....wow, what a concept from the company.

    Diversity doesn't means it's cool to have every player wearing differently. Farming together some sets was big part of the game for me. This update was a straightdown hammer to group farming DD's sets. Now the concept of "Don't farm, just put what you have, the difference isn't big anyways" is not healthy to the game if you ask me. People hate farming, people complain and cry on it, but they continue to do it and feel pleasure when they get what they were looking for. This is essential part of the game no matter how much you "hate" it (or is it love? :-) )
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