Low Pop Bonus

Earthewen · August 2017

Dear ZOS,

Playing on a lower population server has its own challenges. As a raid lead, I generally try to stay off of the whole gate camping thing. However, when DC was getting a low pop bonus of over 90 or 100 points just for not showing up, they took first place in the campaign. The only way to stop the win was to take everything blue on the map including the back keeps. There is something really wrong with this system and it needs to be addressed. We shouldn't be forced to push all the way back to the gates in order to win a campaign.

Grimlok_S · August 2017

Seconding,

Logging on to see your faction pushed to your scroll keeps makes folks think twice about heading to Cyrodiil, just to have to spend an hour to regain your trikeeps.

Earthewen · August 2017

Exactly! I know it sounds silly in a video game, but I don't particularly like pushing DC or AD to their gates. I know I don't like getting gate camped at all. However, because of this bonus system as it is, there is no choice if you want to win the campaign against as faction that didn't even show up to the war.

zyk · August 2017

Earthewen wrote: »

Exactly! I know it sounds silly in a video game, but I don't particularly like pushing DC or AD to their gates. I know I don't like getting gate camped at all. However, because of this bonus system as it is, there is no choice if you want to win the campaign against as faction that didn't even show up to the war.

Yeah, but if the low pop bonus is a factor, is it a campaign worth doing everything to win? It sort of sounds like you're compromising your values to preserve a win by default.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

I would love to join a camp inn losing side, take my guild, and resource cap all the resources right before eval over anD over.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

But actual fighting is too much fun

mook-eb16_ESO · August 2017

why do people want to fight in a near empty campaign, its like turning up to a party when its over.

brandonv516 · August 2017

Yes there should be a bonus while you are the underdog. Then when it evens out you lose the bonus.

Earthewen · August 2017

brandonv516 wrote: »

Yes there should be a bonus while you are the underdog. Then when it evens out you lose the bonus.

However, this current system doesn't work this way. I've seen huge DC zergs on a map and they still are getting the low pop bonus due to some sort of delay. I've also heard of mass log outs just to get the low pop bonus kicking, and then everyone logs back in and rolls the map WITH the bonus on and running. Totally an exploit.

Still, my point is that if you don't show up to the game, why should you get anything? That's like telling the Cardinals that they can not show up to the World Series and still win. It's pretty simple. If you don't show, you forfeit. If DC or AD or EP wants to win the campaign, they need to break up any zerg they have over on Vivec and simple spread out a bit.

Soul_Demon · August 2017

Yeah, I see the same problem with low pop bonus you do....If you get better rewards for what the alliance score is, and there is such a thing as winning - anything really based on points earned that require you to drop siege and actually spend AP to take things, why would you bother to do that if you could be getting the same thing for not showing up?

No incentive if the only incentive is to play for top score for the alliance or better rewards at end of camp....without that the game turns into one huge battleground without rules whatsoever and no one cares in the least. Same goes for changing up alliances on a whim, people tell you they do it to 'even' the populations out and always go to the underdog, but we see the map and populations.....simply put either they are paying lip service or not enough are doing it to balance population.

Low pop bonus is one of the reasons people will simply log off- You cant beat ZOS and the bonus itself encourages you to take everything on the map if you do care about win for camp......strange that you set up a game with a way to win based on scores gained by taking things, then unlock alliances to discourage playing on one side or the other and then further discourage playing the map by giving the alliance a 'bonus' that could win the campaign without playing.

Personally I might be unable to properly process this concept- seems a newer snowflake idea that one needs to do nothing, not even show up and you can win something without effort. So, for snowflakes who get this- apologies as I don't understand the 'contest' where ones doesn't apply effort or show up to win.

Earthewen · August 2017

@Soul_Demon, yes I am thinking the same thing. As a retired educator, I could see the mentality was switching from working on you grades to getting grades without the work. It appears to be the same idea here. I'm not actually sure why anyone would think this system is a good one ESPECIALLY with a delay in the bonus which enables zergs to roll the map with said bonus and gain unrealistic amounts of AP. Would there not be a way to make it instant? Something needs to be done as clearly, the current system does nothing to encourage game play or put the points in proper perspective for the campaign. It's how you end up with the mess that was Hadde and the dead map in Shor.

ZOS shouldn't force us to push anyone to the back keeps to prevent that bonus from taking the win of any campaign by any faction that just didn't show up.

Earthewen · August 2017

zyk wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Exactly! I know it sounds silly in a video game, but I don't particularly like pushing DC or AD to their gates. I know I don't like getting gate camped at all. However, because of this bonus system as it is, there is no choice if you want to win the campaign against as faction that didn't even show up to the war.

Yeah, but if the low pop bonus is a factor, is it a campaign worth doing everything to win? It sort of sounds like you're compromising your values to preserve a win by default.

That is my point exactly. In a way, ZOS forces us to make that choice or lose a campaign. If people show up to a campaign to win it, but can't because of the low pop bonus is so easily exploitable and just downright too high, what are they supposed to do? Give up? What about when they finally show up, roll the map in mass, and then log off again all the while getting that bonus? What then? In order to gain ground again, the faction that DID show up, has to push them all the way back. Then they get slammed for killing a server and pushing that far. Seem like ZOS has set up the system to promote failure for those people who DO show up to the game and want to play.

Malibulove · August 2017

Scoring in general should be dynamic, because there are many instances where campaign population fluctuates dramatically throughout the day. Logic would dictate the maximum amount points to be earned should be tied directly to the total number of players in the campaign.

With the real low-pop bonus simply being a caveat that any faction whose at a population disadvantage get an immediate {but slight) boost to scoring until the factions normalized. That way a 2-bar faction could be rewarded for defending vs the horde without it suddenly skyrocketing them into 1st place.

The current low-pop bonus is the worst of both worlds; never around when you need it, and way too impactful when it finally shows up. If I was a betting man, I would almost guess ZOS couldn't figure a way to do it in realtime so they just supercharged it to compensate.