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Sharpened/Defending Nerf Is Too Much
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »BlazingDynamo wrote: »You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.
Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.
Chill.
Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.
I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.
Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.
With the nerf to sharpened, defending would have been too op so to counter balance it it had to be reduced to the same as sharpened.
So essentially, PVE nerfed for the sake of PVP, again.
For the thousand time.
Not really. This nerf is great for PvE as it promotes build diversity.Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 13, 2017 7:54AM4 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »BlazingDynamo wrote: »You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.
Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.
Chill.
Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.
I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.
Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.
With the nerf to sharpened, defending would have been too op so to counter balance it it had to be reduced to the same as sharpened.
So essentially, PVE nerfed for the sake of PVP, again.
For the thousand time.
Not really. This nerf was great for PvE as it promotes build diversity.
One word: And it's censored.
Build diversity is non-existant. It has been non-existant ever since the Morrowind patch, when what was viable shortened by about five pages.
If Build diversity was the goal, this was counter productive. Because the traits never mattered in the slightest.1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Pretty simple. Power creep happens when you keep buffing skills and items while chasing the ever elusive "balance" myth. It is ALWAYS better to make small nerfs to some things and small buffs to others. Just continually raising the power bar instead of keeping OP issues in check is far more damaging than a few nerfs here and there.
Before you know it, content is too easy (We have been there before and are headed there again already). From there the only answer is yet another "balance" update - but this time it is on a massive and game changing scale. Those massive balance changes is where you lose large chunks of the player base.3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Pretty simple. Power creep happens when you keep buffing skills and items while chasing the ever elusive "balance" myth. It is ALWAYS better to make small nerfs to some things and small buffs to others. Just continually raising the power bar instead of keeping OP issues in check is far more damaging than a few nerfs here and there.
Before you know it, content is too easy (We have been there before and are headed there again already). From there the only answer is yet another "balance" update - but this time it is on a massive and game changing scale. Those massive balance changes is where you lose large chunks of the player base.
Again, your throwing out vague concepts. Give me specifics based on the game. Give me examples.
And considering only the forums thought the changes were needed, and everyone else was content to run trials, maybe that's a -you- problem.
But no, seriously, give names to the concepts. Explain to me using specific systems and sets in the game what your talking about because it seems like vague ***.2 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Pretty simple. Power creep happens when you keep buffing skills and items while chasing the ever elusive "balance" myth. It is ALWAYS better to make small nerfs to some things and small buffs to others. Just continually raising the power bar instead of keeping OP issues in check is far more damaging than a few nerfs here and there.
Before you know it, content is too easy (We have been there before and are headed there again already). From there the only answer is yet another "balance" update - but this time it is on a massive and game changing scale. Those massive balance changes is where you lose large chunks of the player base.
Again, your throwing out vague concepts. Give me specifics based on the game. Give me examples.
And considering only the forums thought the changes were needed, and everyone else was content to run trials, maybe that's a -you- problem.
But no, seriously, give names to the concepts. Explain to me using specific systems and sets in the game what your talking about because it seems like vague ***.
Power creep is NOT a vague concept - I know for a fact you are not that dense. Quit playing the "I just don't understand" game. It diminishes you greatly.
It's not my job to give you specifics, If you can't figure out what power creep is - I can't help you. I guess I gave you much more credit than you are showing. Power creep is a very simple concept and I have no intention writing a thesis on it for you.
Edited by Bouldercleave on August 12, 2017 10:55PM4 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Pretty simple. Power creep happens when you keep buffing skills and items while chasing the ever elusive "balance" myth. It is ALWAYS better to make small nerfs to some things and small buffs to others. Just continually raising the power bar instead of keeping OP issues in check is far more damaging than a few nerfs here and there.
Before you know it, content is too easy (We have been there before and are headed there again already). From there the only answer is yet another "balance" update - but this time it is on a massive and game changing scale. Those massive balance changes is where you lose large chunks of the player base.
Again, your throwing out vague concepts. Give me specifics based on the game. Give me examples.
And considering only the forums thought the changes were needed, and everyone else was content to run trials, maybe that's a -you- problem.
But no, seriously, give names to the concepts. Explain to me using specific systems and sets in the game what your talking about because it seems like vague ***.
Power creep is NOT a vague concept - I know for a fact you are not that dense. Quit playing the "I just don't understand" game. It diminishes you greatly.
It's not my job to give you specifics, If you can't figure out what power creep is - I can't help you. I guess I gave you much more credit than you are showing. Power creep is a very simple concept and I have no intention writing a thesis on it for you.
Cannot explain, therefore should not be opening mouth about it. Period. If you cant discuss it, you shouldn't -be- discussing it.
Now to adress powercreep itself.
1.Adressing power creep does not in fact have anything to do with half of the changes thus far. The traits? Maybe. If your -stretching- it. Radically re-designing they're game on a core point like sustain? Bull.
2. ESO hasn't taken any of the traditional release valves for power creep. (IE, Heroic difficulty from WoW, ect.) Things I've been suggesting for ages now.
Powerceeep is just the newest scapegoat for people like you in a desperate attempt to explain ZOS's poor decisions. The gods are just crazy. There's your explination.
Maybe, if the reason was PVP, they should re-examine they're PVP design instead of trying to alter everything else with it as a way of geting out of overhauling or even rolling back PVP changes.
Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 12, 2017 11:05PM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Because when something is overperforming you nerf it to become balanced. You dont buff everything else to make them all overperforming. Its common sense that you are going to create huge problems to the game when everything is OP.4 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Pretty simple. Power creep happens when you keep buffing skills and items while chasing the ever elusive "balance" myth. It is ALWAYS better to make small nerfs to some things and small buffs to others. Just continually raising the power bar instead of keeping OP issues in check is far more damaging than a few nerfs here and there.
Before you know it, content is too easy (We have been there before and are headed there again already). From there the only answer is yet another "balance" update - but this time it is on a massive and game changing scale. Those massive balance changes is where you lose large chunks of the player base.
Again, your throwing out vague concepts. Give me specifics based on the game. Give me examples.
And considering only the forums thought the changes were needed, and everyone else was content to run trials, maybe that's a -you- problem.
But no, seriously, give names to the concepts. Explain to me using specific systems and sets in the game what your talking about because it seems like vague ***.
Power creep is NOT a vague concept - I know for a fact you are not that dense. Quit playing the "I just don't understand" game. It diminishes you greatly.
It's not my job to give you specifics, If you can't figure out what power creep is - I can't help you. I guess I gave you much more credit than you are showing. Power creep is a very simple concept and I have no intention writing a thesis on it for you.
Cannot explain, therefore should not be opening mouth about it. Period. If you cant discuss it, you shouldn't -be- discussing it.
Now to adress powercreep itself.
1.Adressing power creep does not in fact have anything to do with half of the changes thus far. The traits? Maybe. If your -stretching- it. Radically re-designing they're game on a core point like sustain? Bull.
2. ESO hasn't taken any of the traditional release valves for power creep. (IE, Heroic difficulty from WoW, ect.) Things I've been suggesting for ages now.
Powerceeep is just the newest scapegoat for people like you in a desperate attempt to explain ZOS's poor decisions. The gods are just crazy. There's your explination.
Actually, it's not that I CAN'T discuss it, it's that I don't like you and CHOOSE not to discuss it with YOU. I find you to be simply too pretentious.
Please feel free to take that personally - that is exactly how it was meant.
Edited by Bouldercleave on August 13, 2017 2:05AM6 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Because when something is overperforming you nerf it to become balanced. You dont buff everything else to make them all overperforming. Its common sense that you are going to create huge problems to the game when everything is OP.
Here's the thing.
I used to play a game called Champions online, where everything was OP in it's own way. Objectively. Some damage specs could put out an insane ammount of damage, some tank builds could become nigh invincible. And with sub, you could mix and match and choose what you wanted. Yet the game survived up to a point and then declined. Why?
Short version: No new content. Or sparse new content.
Powercreep isn't a problem, even CO"s PVP scene survived mostly intact through years of near-broken powersets that people eventually learned to counter. The problem is keeping people interested and allways has been. Especially in games like that, mostly power based, and games like this, in which 90% of the gearsets are absolutely useless.
...Also, the irony of people whining about how power creep is a problem despite people going 'should the DLC stuff be so powerfull?" is met with vitriol and hate. You people just cant be pleased.
Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 12, 2017 11:23PM0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Do you just not know what would happen or are you being .....?0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Do you just not know what would happen or are you being .....?
I was trying to get him to clarify his position. He refused and restorted to personal attacks.
Draw from that your own conclusions.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »BlazingDynamo wrote: »You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.
Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.
Chill.
Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.
I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.
Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.
With the nerf to sharpened, defending would have been too op so to counter balance it it had to be reduced to the same as sharpened.
So essentially, PVE nerfed for the sake of PVP, again.
For the thousand time.
Not really. This nerf was great for PvE as it promotes build diversity.
One word: And it's censored.
Build diversity is non-existant. It has been non-existant ever since the Morrowind patch, when what was viable shortened by about five pages.
If Build diversity was the goal, this was counter productive. Because the traits never mattered in the slightest.
Until this patch, any trait other than sharpened was a huge DPS loss.
Now, you can use sharpened, infused, or precise.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »BlazingDynamo wrote: »You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.
Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.
Chill.
Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.
I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.
Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.
With the nerf to sharpened, defending would have been too op so to counter balance it it had to be reduced to the same as sharpened.
So essentially, PVE nerfed for the sake of PVP, again.
For the thousand time.
Not really. This nerf was great for PvE as it promotes build diversity.
One word: And it's censored.
Build diversity is non-existant. It has been non-existant ever since the Morrowind patch, when what was viable shortened by about five pages.
If Build diversity was the goal, this was counter productive. Because the traits never mattered in the slightest.
Until this patch, any trait other than sharpened was a huge DPS loss.
Now, you can use sharpened, infused, or precise.
To what end? There is no variety in truth, just a different color gem on your weapon hilt.2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.
The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.
How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.
What an out of the box way of thinking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.
Explain how.
I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave
Because when something is overperforming you nerf it to become balanced. You dont buff everything else to make them all overperforming. Its common sense that you are going to create huge problems to the game when everything is OP.
Here's the thing.
I used to play a game called Champions online, where everything was OP in it's own way. Objectively. Some damage specs could put out an insane ammount of damage, some tank builds could become nigh invincible. And with sub, you could mix and match and choose what you wanted. Yet the game survived up to a point and then declined. Why?
Short version: No new content. Or sparse new content.
Powercreep isn't a problem, even CO"s PVP scene survived mostly intact through years of near-broken powersets that people eventually learned to counter. The problem is keeping people interested and allways has been. Especially in games like that, mostly power based, and games like this, in which 90% of the gearsets are absolutely useless.
...Also, the irony of people whining about how power creep is a problem despite people going 'should the DLC stuff be so powerfull?" is met with vitriol and hate. You people just cant be pleased.
No need to talk about other games. You are playing ESO. You want an example. Proc sets. Dealing unavoidable very high dmg with the click of a button. And your solution is buff everything else to match proc set strength. Sound logical right? All the sets would be balanced after all. What could possibly go wrong? Well everyone is oneshotting everyone by pressing one button. Thats whats wrong. Like i said when everything is OP its common sense that its going to break the game.0 -
IronCrystal✭✭✭✭✭
✭As far as powercreep, it's an issue because zos has decided to design their game this way.
Let's look at WoW. They raise the max power level every single expansion and with it release the new BiS gear. All the new content is scaled to the new high difficulty. All old content becomes faceroll easy and end game players just play the expansion. Meta becomes whatever they release in the expansion simply because "its a higher level." No one complains about grinding for more gear because its well known it will change when the next expansion is released.
Look at ESO. ZoS has decided that they want all zones to be equally difficult (or easy depending on your view. That was made quite obvious when One Tamriel was released. Zos can't release zones that are more difficult and give better (higher level drops) because they have decided to standardise the difficulty of all zones.
So, what can ZOS do? All they can hope to do is balance what content already exists. But they have decided to also increase our champion level, which means end game players are getting progressively more powerful. That is powercreep when the players get more and more powerful but content stays the same difficulty.
Make PC NA raiding great again!
Down with drama!
What Mechanics Healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Homestead Raid Scores
vHRC 157,030
vAA 138,287
vSO 153,393
vMoL 154,550
Not raiding in Morrowind2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronCrystal wrote: »As far as powercreep, it's an issue because zos has decided to design their game this way.
Let's look at WoW. They raise the max power level every single expansion and with it release the new BiS gear. All the new content is scaled to the new high difficulty. All old content becomes faceroll easy and end game players just play the expansion. Meta becomes whatever they release in the expansion simply because "its a higher level." No one complains about grinding for more gear because its well known it will change when the next expansion is released.
Look at ESO. ZoS has decided that they want all zones to be equally difficult (or easy depending on your view. That was made quite obvious when One Tamriel was released. Zos can't release zones that are more difficult and give better (higher level drops) because they have decided to standardise the difficulty of all zones.
So, what can ZOS do? All they can hope to do is balance what content already exists. But they have decided to also increase our champion level, which means end game players are getting progressively more powerful. That is powercreep when the players get more and more powerful but content stays the same difficulty.
I'm really not sure what the point of an ever-increasing CP cap is.
We're at the point now where you can get all the points you need without making any sacrifices. It's ridicuolous how easy the game has become.
I propose a huge nerf to CP, as well as more nuanced buffs (instead of OP crap like increase damage by X%).0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »As far as powercreep, it's an issue because zos has decided to design their game this way.
Let's look at WoW. They raise the max power level every single expansion and with it release the new BiS gear. All the new content is scaled to the new high difficulty. All old content becomes faceroll easy and end game players just play the expansion. Meta becomes whatever they release in the expansion simply because "its a higher level." No one complains about grinding for more gear because its well known it will change when the next expansion is released.
Look at ESO. ZoS has decided that they want all zones to be equally difficult (or easy depending on your view. That was made quite obvious when One Tamriel was released. Zos can't release zones that are more difficult and give better (higher level drops) because they have decided to standardise the difficulty of all zones.
So, what can ZOS do? All they can hope to do is balance what content already exists. But they have decided to also increase our champion level, which means end game players are getting progressively more powerful. That is powercreep when the players get more and more powerful but content stays the same difficulty.
I'm really not sure what the point of an ever-increasing CP cap is.
We're at the point now where you can get all the points you need without making any sacrifices. It's ridicuolous how easy the game has become.
I propose a huge nerf to CP, as well as more nuanced buffs (instead of OP crap like increase damage by X%).
A lot of people already suggested to completely rework the CP and make it give actual customization passives with little effect to combat. Instead they just prefer to increase cp cap --> people are too powerful --> nerf cp passives --> increase cp cap --> people are too powerful --> nerf cp passives. And we are stuck in this endless cycle that does absolutely nothing.8 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭While I understand the journey to finally getting your VMA weapons is especially frustrating, the nerf is called for.
Like others have said, Sharpened will still be BiS for damage dealing in solo play. So nothing changed here. Other traits like Nirn, Decisive, Infused and Precise among others are in dire need for a buff.
You may think "so why not buff them and leave Sharpened untouched like what you've said".
Good question but if ZoS were to do that, survivability in PvP and PvE will have a huge (and I mean HUGE) discrepancy and the whole combat spectrum will need humongous balancing.
For example, for Nirn to be as competitive as Sharpened in PvE and PvP, the former has to be buffed by approx. 3 fold (refer to le Master du Calculacion @Asayre's archive of threads if you want to figure out the calculations).
That will severely impact PvP since both combat modes aren't balanced separately and I don't advocate for separate balancing for reasons which is another topic for another thread for another day.Edited by Sneaky-Snurr on August 13, 2017 6:49AMThe Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki0 -
Krayzie✭✭✭✭✭So the premise of this topic is Zenimax has no idea what they're doing, and we can all agree.I'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.1 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭The Order of the Shadows: Nightmare
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EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki3 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I disagree, this update im interested in the most.
It became stale for months. BSW, Sharpened, Thief and push buttons like a robotic monkey.
Now LOADS of variation and only a small difference between est and worst. Less grinding as other traits are viable. Clearly anyone that has hit vMA a few times kept all the weapons in case this happened.
It's a good thing for PvE at least.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach3 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭
@KrayzieSo the premise of this topic is Zenimax has no idea what they're doing, and we can all agree.
Actually, I kinda agree on the weapon trait and mundus stones buffs. Tbh, after all that has happened the past months, this is the one thing they did right.
Like @Beardimus said, the variation in builds were getting stale by the day and it's especially monotonous with Sharpened as the absolute main choice for max/overall DPS.
I advocate for the recent changes ZoS are making. Though they need to get the fixes right since a lot of things are broken patch by patch.The Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki0 -
humpalicous✭✭✭Just head on over to Gilliam's channel and watch his content (and streams if you have the time). He is super-detailed on the math behind the changes and what's BiS for each situation.
Infused is the best performing trait at the moment for pure single target. Sharpened applies to every single damage output you have, meaning that it has better AOE damage output.
Sharpened is by no means useless, just invest 20 points in the CP tree that offers penetration and you're getting close to what Sharpened was (is on live atm) before the patch.
Apparently there's another bug as well with the enchants as well, with the enchant carrying over from the back bar wall of elements ticks to the front bar, effectively giving you 2 enchants at once. So basically VMA staves will still be BiS on the back bar for magicka builds if they fix this bug.
All in all, the BiS gear and traits in the upcoming update will be very situational and will depend on the composition of your group and build.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So the premise of this topic is Zenimax has no idea what they're doing, and we can all agree.
I think most people like the changes. I know I do.
There was zero build diversity before. You went sharpened and thief or bust.
The only nerf I don't like is necro since it knocks the set out of the PvE meta while not fixing it in PvP (it was already going to be one of the weaker sets this patch in PvE before the nerfs hit).Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 13, 2017 7:58AM2 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is BiS exists in the first place. Everything should give you the opportunity to succeed, no matter the playstyle.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!2 -
humpalicous✭✭✭The problem is BiS exists in the first place. Everything should give you the opportunity to succeed, no matter the playstyle.
How is this accomplished? Make the majority of sets mostly the same in terms of strength?
I'm not super-experienced with MMO's in general so I wouldn't know how others do in this regard.0 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭
@MLGProPlayerMLGProPlayer wrote: »So the premise of this topic is Zenimax has no idea what they're doing, and we can all agree.
I think most people like the changes. I know I do.
There was zero build diversity before. You went sharpened and thief or bust.
The only nerf I don't like is necro since it knocks the set out of the PvE meta while not fixing it in PvP (it was already going to be one of the weaker sets this patch in PvE before the nerfs hit).
Well said.The Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki2 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »It took a 50% nerf and a buff to other traits to bring it in line. It was massively outperforming the other traits. Gj zos.
And it should (or something should)... If there is not anything that clearly outshines the rest then they might as well ditch traits all together. We can have a few select weapons like sword, staff, maul, etc. There is a time where balance = everything is the same; not fun if you ask me.1
