Sharpened/Defending Nerf Is Too Much

Shadzilla · August 2017

I mean I agree they needed nerfs to make them more competitive with other traits, don't get me wrong. Yet again we see our games development company doing a MASSIVE shift in balance, instead of moderate one. Call me crazy but doing a 50% nerf to these traits while significantly buffing others really does further the nerfage well beyond the directly visible 50%. I understand, they were meta for a very long time and that had to change... In my opinion the nerf was waaaaaay too severe, and sharpened is no longer BIS for any min/max builds.

Sincerely,

Someone who grinded out sharpened vma/moon/master staves, vma/vo/war machine daggers + axes, vma/masters bows, vma 2h's and probably some more relevant weapons I cannot think of atm.

Malic · August 2017

The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.

The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.

How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.

What an out of the box way of thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

MehrunesFlagon · August 2017

they do need to need to do something to return maelstrom weapons to being bis.Kind of a bs move making enchants anyone can get work better than the jardest weapons to get in game.

Leandor · August 2017

Is everyone posting agreement aware that sharpened will still be the best trait on many builds and that the nerf actually makes it so that precise will be the same or a hair's breadth better with a little change in setups? That infused will not be more than a percent better? That we now actually have three (in pvp four) options that are all valid and workable?

I hate the complaint machine that is this forum.

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Sharpened is still BiS for solo play and probably dungeons. I'd expect it to be a very minor DPS difference in trials too. It also means you can put less points into spell erosion.

Here is the math behind the changes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/359916/mundus-trait-and-cp-optimisation-for-pve-damage-dealers/p1

BlazingDynamo · August 2017

You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.

Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.

Chill.

Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

It took a 50% nerf and a buff to other traits to bring it in line. It was massively outperforming the other traits. Gj zos.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.

Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.

Chill.

Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.

I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.

Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.

Nelson_Rebel · August 2017

The question I have is how it'll affect PvP

Seems like it's an indirect Buff for heavy armor/high resistance builds. And will create lengthier fights, for better or worse I don't yet know.

IronCrystal · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.

Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.

Chill.

Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.

I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.

Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.

I dunno about pvp, but defending was bis for healers in trials. Although i feel like it had a good tradeoff like you get more defense but less healing.

Nelson_Rebel · August 2017

so will this effectively nerf high burst builds?

If so I'm all for it. I'm sick of dying instantly to incap/suprise attack with (insert proc here) in less time than my game can even register it before I'm dead.

And yes I use all impen on 5heavy and still have this happen on a full cp max character

Sigma957 · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.

Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.

Chill.

Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.

I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.

Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.

With the nerf to sharpened, defending would have been too op so to counter balance it it had to be reduced to the same as sharpened.

Izaki · August 2017

Sharpened is just as good as Precise or Infused now. It depends on the content you're doing that's all.

But most traits and mundus stones are more or less equal in terms of DPS now.

Electrone_Magnus · August 2017

They should make maelstrom weapons of any trait do like 2k more dps so that those who grinded vma don't get left out.. It shouldn't be too much extra dps else it will cause a problem and people will be forced to run vma. Right now on pts I don't think vma daggers are even used which is really bad for those who worked really hard for those daggers.

BlazingDynamo · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.

Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.

Chill.

Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.

I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.

Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.

Sorry I was only talking about sharpened my bad

Shadzilla · August 2017

Electrone_Magnus wrote: »

They should make maelstrom weapons of any trait do like 2k more dps so that those who grinded vma don't get left out.. It shouldn't be too much extra dps else it will cause a problem and people will be forced to run vma. Right now on pts I don't think vma daggers are even used which is really bad for those who worked really hard for those daggers.

VMA daggers have not been best in slot since the 1k weapon damage nerf 9ish months ago

TheDoomsdayMonster · August 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

It took a 50% nerf and a buff to other traits to bring it in line. It was massively outperforming the other traits. Gj zos.

Well said...

It that doesn't exemplify just how much better Sharpened/Defending were than the other traits then nothing will...

The changes were absolutely needed as a result...

Betsararie · August 2017

Given how much time and gold we put into obtaining sharpened weapons, I think the nerf was incorrect. Sharpened needed to remain as the highest damage option so people are rewarded for their time and gold.

It's good to have one single/definitive BiS option so people have something to work towards and work for. I actually didn't have any issue at all with the weapon traits, I also don't care much about build diversity. I liked knowing that sharpened was without a doubt the best option in most scenarios, and I would actively seek it out. Getting the sharpened weapon you were seeking was a great feeling.

Possibly even worse than the sharpened nerf is the defending nerf, I mean this is truly ridiculous. I wish they would rethink it. Defending isn't even over-performing. It's just good. It's a means to mitigate damage. Especially for players in light armor defending provided some much needed defense. It being nerfed simply because sharpened is being nerfed (which itself is a terrible idea) is just ridiculous.

There is no reason that this change would be implemented besides 'build diversity' which is not something I value on any level.

Shadzilla · August 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Given how much time and gold we put into obtaining sharpened weapons, I think the nerf was incorrect. Sharpened needed to remain as the highest damage option so people are rewarded for their time and gold.

It's good to have one single/definitive BiS option so people have something to work towards and work for. I actually didn't have any issue at all with the weapon traits, I also don't care much about build diversity. I liked knowing that sharpened was without a doubt the best option in most scenarios, and I would actively seek it out. Getting the sharpened weapon you were seeking was a great feeling.

Possibly even worse than the sharpened nerf is the defending nerf, I mean this is truly ridiculous. I wish they would rethink it. Defending isn't even over-performing. It's just good. It's a means to mitigate damage. Especially for players in light armor defending provided some much needed defense. It being nerfed simply because sharpened is being nerfed (which itself is a terrible idea) is just ridiculous.

There is no reason that this change would be implemented besides 'build diversity' which is not something I value on any level.

Very well written, I 100% agree.

Tyrobag · August 2017

While I don't agree that sharpened should be absolute bis, I do think that maybe chopping it in half was a little bit much. It was definitely waaaay too much of a nerf for defending, defending was bis for tanks, but not to the extent that it was required.
I do think that sharp needed a nerf, and I like the idea that now bis may be to actually use two different traits on either weapon rather than everything but sharpened being trash.

Massive_Stain · August 2017

It was a less than 50% nerf, bois. Gg

Everstorm · August 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Given how much time and gold we put into obtaining sharpened weapons, I think the nerf was incorrect. Sharpened needed to remain as the highest damage option so people are rewarded for their time and gold.

The very fact that ppl put that much time and gold into obtaining that one specific trait shows how badly overpowered it was. If that trait was somehow harder to get than the other ones you would have had a point, but it's just pure RNG. You had one superprice, one or two runners up and the rest rubbish.

zaria · August 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Given how much time and gold we put into obtaining sharpened weapons, I think the nerf was incorrect. Sharpened needed to remain as the highest damage option so people are rewarded for their time and gold.

The very fact that ppl put that much time and gold into obtaining that one specific trait shows how badly overpowered it was. If that trait was somehow harder to get than the other ones you would have had a point, but it's just pure RNG. You had one superprice, one or two runners up and the rest rubbish.

You don't need to put so much into penetration cp to compensate.

Denyiir · August 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

The question I have is how it'll affect PvP

Seems like it's an indirect Buff for heavy armor/high resistance builds. And will create lengthier fights, for better or worse I don't yet know.

You replace thief mundus, which get nerfed a little btw, for lover and it's like nothing changed xD

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

I mean I agree they needed nerfs to make them more competitive with other traits, don't get me wrong. Yet again we see our games development company doing a MASSIVE shift in balance, instead of moderate one. Call me crazy but doing a 50% nerf to these traits while significantly buffing others really does further the nerfage well beyond the directly visible 50%. I understand, they were meta for a very long time and that had to change... In my opinion the nerf was waaaaaay too severe, and sharpened is no longer BIS for any min/max builds.

Sincerely,

Someone who grinded out sharpened vma/moon/master staves, vma/vo/war machine daggers + axes, vma/masters bows, vma 2h's and probably some more relevant weapons I cannot think of atm.

Sharpened nerf was necessary...now several traits are viable, instead of just 1

pieratsos · August 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Given how much time and gold we put into obtaining sharpened weapons, I think the nerf was incorrect. Sharpened needed to remain as the highest damage option so people are rewarded for their time and gold.

It's good to have one single/definitive BiS option so people have something to work towards and work for. I actually didn't have any issue at all with the weapon traits, I also don't care much about build diversity. I liked knowing that sharpened was without a doubt the best option in most scenarios, and I would actively seek it out. Getting the sharpened weapon you were seeking was a great feeling.

Possibly even worse than the sharpened nerf is the defending nerf, I mean this is truly ridiculous. I wish they would rethink it. Defending isn't even over-performing. It's just good. It's a means to mitigate damage. Especially for players in light armor defending provided some much needed defense. It being nerfed simply because sharpened is being nerfed (which itself is a terrible idea) is just ridiculous.

There is no reason that this change would be implemented besides 'build diversity' which is not something I value on any level.

Just because some people got more lucky with drops, it doesnt make them more worthy than other people who were unlucky with drops. People need to drop their feeling of entitlement to have absolute BiS gear because they farmed them. There are people who did hundreds of vMA runs and never got a sharpened inferno but got plenty of other traits that will work now. They are just as worthy as the people who got the sharpened staff.

And no, seeking a sharpened weapon isnt a great feeling. Its the exact opposite. Doing hundreds of dungeon runs and never getting what u want because u are unlucky doesnt make u feel great. Its frustrating and stupid.

Insandros · August 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

I mean I agree they needed nerfs to make them more competitive with other traits, don't get me wrong. Yet again we see our games development company doing a MASSIVE shift in balance, instead of moderate one. Call me crazy but doing a 50% nerf to these traits while significantly buffing others really does further the nerfage well beyond the directly visible 50%. I understand, they were meta for a very long time and that had to change... In my opinion the nerf was waaaaaay too severe, and sharpened is no longer BIS for any min/max builds.

Sincerely,

Someone who grinded out sharpened vma/moon/master staves, vma/vo/war machine daggers + axes, vma/masters bows, vma 2h's and probably some more relevant weapons I cannot think of atm.

Sharpened is not really nerfed, simply brought back to almost what it was before they made it the mainly only useful trait by boosting it too much.

Insandros · August 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

they do need to need to do something to return maelstrom weapons to being bis.Kind of a bs move making enchants anyone can get work better than the jardest weapons to get in game.

even if sharpened in droepd down etc.. vMa will always be better than any other staff besides moondancer, the stat it gives (spell power, crit) etc,, will always be useful versus a random wepon and for exemple stafff, for someone weaving, it will always be useful and help... it will all stay the same, what i mean is, pen will be less, but it will be the same on all weapons, sharpen won't affect only vma stuff. On my side, i don't run MoL so i won't be able to get a 4 piece of moondancer trying to get a staff for front bar, so having a vma staff will always be a bit better than using 4 pieces of IA and having to find a randon wepon to fit the 5 pieces missing from amour to make the 5 piece set... my vMA staff will give me more spell power than the IA 4 piece i can get, adding the boost to light attack weave... as for other vma weapons, i don't know i don't melee ***

Bouldercleave · August 2017

Malic wrote: »

The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.

The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.

How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.

What an out of the box way of thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

Sigma957 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

You make it sound like vma weapons are usless. Like many have pointed out the dps difference between traits are slim to none. There will always be something that's at least 0.000001% better.

Certain traits perform better in different situations. But everything is on par now. Sharpened just isn't be all end all.

Chill.

Keep using you vma weapons they're still good.

I defy you to tell me how Defending was overperforming. Given armor is negledgeable in PVP given it's all burst damage, the only people using it would be tanks who you dont target first anyway.

Explain to be why defending needed nerfed.

With the nerf to sharpened, defending would have been too op so to counter balance it it had to be reduced to the same as sharpened.

So essentially, PVE nerfed for the sake of PVP, again.

For the thousand time.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

The problem is one that has plagued this MMO for years and is embodied to a great deal by its community. Point if view is a fantastic corollary.

The point of view that nothing needs to be nerfed but rather other things need to be buffed to compensate is the mindset that gets shouted down regularly. In essence, if you repeat the same behaviors (nerfing) and expect a different result youre an idiot.

How about next patch, where ZOS re does everything and negates players months of grinding they simply "buff" items that are lagging.

What an out of the box way of thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

Because that creates an unsustainable power creep which is even harder and more painful to fix.

Explain how.

I allways see people go on about powercreep, but actually explain it. Explain in depth what would happen @Bouldercleave