Alternative to War Horn for tanks?

Magdalina · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I appreciate the encouragement attempts, it's very nice of people to take the time. But what I see here is that if I want to do endgame content I need to pick a different role than tank. I was interested in it, but not to the extent that I am willing to do any amount of PvP for it. It's not the mechanics of PvP that bother me, it's PvPers that I have been exposed to. I am just not up to tolerating any amount of bullying, and while I realize that jerks can happen in PvE as well, I have personal experience to tell me that my chances of encountering it are almost 100% in a PvP area vs. very rarely in PvE. Basically people being utterly crappy to me in PvP ruined it for me forever, so I'll just keep working on DPS and healing. Again, thanks for the effort. Too bad you folks weren't the ones I ran into when I tried PvP and got an impression to last a lifetime.

Sorry to inform you but you still need to do PvP as a DD or healer . Healers should be using Warhorn as well . Stamina DDs need Caltrops . Magicka and Stamina DDs also need Purge from Support tree for certain mechanics . Whatever role you pick , you will have to do PvP to get the most of your character .

Thankfully I have found some endgame builds at Deltias Gaming, which I have been told is pretty solid, that do not require PvP skills.

Given Deltia left/stopped making guides with Morrowind I'd take that guide with a grain of salt. Just saying. Alcast has up to date guides.

Magicka dps is probably the role least reliant on PvP skills(endgame-wise; non endgame, it's whatever basically). But then again you might need Purge for certain fights...unless you're a magplar with Purifying I guess.

That said, and please don't take it the wrong way, it seems weird you'd be THAT opposed to PvP because someone was mean to you there. I mean I believe you, some people are jerks, I'm sorry you ran into one of those, but what are you gonna do when you run into a jerk in PvE? Personally my experience has been with a lot more toxicity in PvE than PvP because in PvP numbers are strength, but in PvE an instance only houses so many people so your performance is always up for judgement, and sometimes people prefer to judge not actual performance but amount of cp, quality of gear...or lack of certain skills they're used to seeing - like Warhorn. And there's no "just ignore and go on" in PvE when you're in the middle of an instance with these people. Clearly your experience has been different, but what will you do when/if you run into that jerk in a group dungeon who trash talks you for not having enough cp or whatever as he lies there dead on the very first boss because he was too busy calling you names to step out of aoe? Will you quit PvE as well?

Don't let people spoil your day. This is MUCH easier in PvP mind you because as I said, strength is numbers. Turn zchat off, go in offline mode so no one can whisper you, join a group and stick to it so you don't get ganked or 10v1'd, and off you go. What is the worst they can do, show you a /boo?

Minyassa · August 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I appreciate the encouragement attempts, it's very nice of people to take the time. But what I see here is that if I want to do endgame content I need to pick a different role than tank. I was interested in it, but not to the extent that I am willing to do any amount of PvP for it. It's not the mechanics of PvP that bother me, it's PvPers that I have been exposed to. I am just not up to tolerating any amount of bullying, and while I realize that jerks can happen in PvE as well, I have personal experience to tell me that my chances of encountering it are almost 100% in a PvP area vs. very rarely in PvE. Basically people being utterly crappy to me in PvP ruined it for me forever, so I'll just keep working on DPS and healing. Again, thanks for the effort. Too bad you folks weren't the ones I ran into when I tried PvP and got an impression to last a lifetime.

Sorry to inform you but you still need to do PvP as a DD or healer . Healers should be using Warhorn as well . Stamina DDs need Caltrops . Magicka and Stamina DDs also need Purge from Support tree for certain mechanics . Whatever role you pick , you will have to do PvP to get the most of your character .

Thankfully I have found some endgame builds at Deltias Gaming, which I have been told is pretty solid, that do not require PvP skills.

Given Deltia left/stopped making guides with Morrowind I'd take that guide with a grain of salt. Just saying. Alcast has up to date guides.

Magicka dps is probably the role least reliant on PvP skills(endgame-wise; non endgame, it's whatever basically). But then again you might need Purge for certain fights...unless you're a magplar with Purifying I guess.

That said, and please don't take it the wrong way, it seems weird you'd be THAT opposed to PvP because someone was mean to you there. I mean I believe you, some people are jerks, I'm sorry you ran into one of those, but what are you gonna do when you run into a jerk in PvE? Personally my experience has been with a lot more toxicity in PvE than PvP because in PvP numbers are strength, but in PvE an instance only houses so many people so your performance is always up for judgement, and sometimes people prefer to judge not actual performance but amount of cp, quality of gear...or lack of certain skills they're used to seeing - like Warhorn. And there's no "just ignore and go on" in PvE when you're in the middle of an instance with these people. Clearly your experience has been different, but what will you do when/if you run into that jerk in a group dungeon who trash talks you for not having enough cp or whatever as he lies there dead on the very first boss because he was too busy calling you names to step out of aoe? Will you quit PvE as well?

Don't let people spoil your day. This is MUCH easier in PvP mind you because as I said, strength is numbers. Turn zchat off, go in offline mode so no one can whisper you, join a group and stick to it so you don't get ganked or 10v1'd, and off you go. What is the worst they can do, show you a /boo?

I ran into several people who were bored and decided to make it their personal entertainment for a while to just kill me the very second I managed to get on my feet, repeatedly, and mock my requests to at least let me get my bearings as a newbie. I don't have the faith that others have that this wouldn't happen again. It was the equivalent of walking into a bar that isn't marked as a bar owned by a gang, and getting your ass kicked. You don't go into those bars again. And just when I think that maybe it's time to try again, I read the responses from PvPers to other threads, and I see the mocking and the teabagging and the open desire to upset other people for entertainment, and I realize that nothing will ever change, so yeah I will totally forego trying a new role to avoid that kind of nasty experience again. Some of us just cannot afford to take on extra stress in the activity that we go to to get away from stress.

Magdalina · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I appreciate the encouragement attempts, it's very nice of people to take the time. But what I see here is that if I want to do endgame content I need to pick a different role than tank. I was interested in it, but not to the extent that I am willing to do any amount of PvP for it. It's not the mechanics of PvP that bother me, it's PvPers that I have been exposed to. I am just not up to tolerating any amount of bullying, and while I realize that jerks can happen in PvE as well, I have personal experience to tell me that my chances of encountering it are almost 100% in a PvP area vs. very rarely in PvE. Basically people being utterly crappy to me in PvP ruined it for me forever, so I'll just keep working on DPS and healing. Again, thanks for the effort. Too bad you folks weren't the ones I ran into when I tried PvP and got an impression to last a lifetime.

Sorry to inform you but you still need to do PvP as a DD or healer . Healers should be using Warhorn as well . Stamina DDs need Caltrops . Magicka and Stamina DDs also need Purge from Support tree for certain mechanics . Whatever role you pick , you will have to do PvP to get the most of your character .

Thankfully I have found some endgame builds at Deltias Gaming, which I have been told is pretty solid, that do not require PvP skills.

Given Deltia left/stopped making guides with Morrowind I'd take that guide with a grain of salt. Just saying. Alcast has up to date guides.

Magicka dps is probably the role least reliant on PvP skills(endgame-wise; non endgame, it's whatever basically). But then again you might need Purge for certain fights...unless you're a magplar with Purifying I guess.

That said, and please don't take it the wrong way, it seems weird you'd be THAT opposed to PvP because someone was mean to you there. I mean I believe you, some people are jerks, I'm sorry you ran into one of those, but what are you gonna do when you run into a jerk in PvE? Personally my experience has been with a lot more toxicity in PvE than PvP because in PvP numbers are strength, but in PvE an instance only houses so many people so your performance is always up for judgement, and sometimes people prefer to judge not actual performance but amount of cp, quality of gear...or lack of certain skills they're used to seeing - like Warhorn. And there's no "just ignore and go on" in PvE when you're in the middle of an instance with these people. Clearly your experience has been different, but what will you do when/if you run into that jerk in a group dungeon who trash talks you for not having enough cp or whatever as he lies there dead on the very first boss because he was too busy calling you names to step out of aoe? Will you quit PvE as well?

Don't let people spoil your day. This is MUCH easier in PvP mind you because as I said, strength is numbers. Turn zchat off, go in offline mode so no one can whisper you, join a group and stick to it so you don't get ganked or 10v1'd, and off you go. What is the worst they can do, show you a /boo?

I ran into several people who were bored and decided to make it their personal entertainment for a while to just kill me the very second I managed to get on my feet, repeatedly, and mock my requests to at least let me get my bearings as a newbie. I don't have the faith that others have that this wouldn't happen again. It was the equivalent of walking into a bar that isn't marked as a bar owned by a gang, and getting your ass kicked. You don't go into those bars again. And just when I think that maybe it's time to try again, I read the responses from PvPers to other threads, and I see the mocking and the teabagging and the open desire to upset other people for entertainment, and I realize that nothing will ever change, so yeah I will totally forego trying a new role to avoid that kind of nasty experience again. Some of us just cannot afford to take on extra stress in the activity that we go to to get away from stress.

This is why you join a group or better yet, come with friends

Bring your own gang! Seriously, it sucks (and if anything you could probably report them for harassment) but it's really easy to avoid.

Anything involving other people has a possibility to end badly because not all people are equally nice. This refers to the Internet and online communities as well(in a way moreso because there's little to no consequences online), but is this really a reason to avoid any human interaction possible? You'd have to stay out of group PvE as well. PvE community isn't really much better. Or much worse, for that matter - people are people.

In the end of the day it's of course up to you but I really think you shouldn't let that incident - and others that will probably happen at some points if you partake in group activities, PvE or PvP wise - get to you and spoil your fun.

TheStealthDude · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I appreciate the encouragement attempts, it's very nice of people to take the time. But what I see here is that if I want to do endgame content I need to pick a different role than tank. I was interested in it, but not to the extent that I am willing to do any amount of PvP for it. It's not the mechanics of PvP that bother me, it's PvPers that I have been exposed to. I am just not up to tolerating any amount of bullying, and while I realize that jerks can happen in PvE as well, I have personal experience to tell me that my chances of encountering it are almost 100% in a PvP area vs. very rarely in PvE. Basically people being utterly crappy to me in PvP ruined it for me forever, so I'll just keep working on DPS and healing. Again, thanks for the effort. Too bad you folks weren't the ones I ran into when I tried PvP and got an impression to last a lifetime.

Sorry to inform you but you still need to do PvP as a DD or healer . Healers should be using Warhorn as well . Stamina DDs need Caltrops . Magicka and Stamina DDs also need Purge from Support tree for certain mechanics . Whatever role you pick , you will have to do PvP to get the most of your character .

Thankfully I have found some endgame builds at Deltias Gaming, which I have been told is pretty solid, that do not require PvP skills.

You are going to have a hard time going far in end-game PvE if you aren't willing to get the necessary skills. Other players will be chosen over you for raids because they will have more abilities at their disposal when the situations call for adaptation. The moment you say "I don't have those skills because I choose not to PvP" will have you marked as someone who is not prepared and not willing to do their part to help the team. And really, why should you be taken on a raid over someone else who has put in the time and effort that you refuse to do?

Minyassa · August 2017

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I appreciate the encouragement attempts, it's very nice of people to take the time. But what I see here is that if I want to do endgame content I need to pick a different role than tank. I was interested in it, but not to the extent that I am willing to do any amount of PvP for it. It's not the mechanics of PvP that bother me, it's PvPers that I have been exposed to. I am just not up to tolerating any amount of bullying, and while I realize that jerks can happen in PvE as well, I have personal experience to tell me that my chances of encountering it are almost 100% in a PvP area vs. very rarely in PvE. Basically people being utterly crappy to me in PvP ruined it for me forever, so I'll just keep working on DPS and healing. Again, thanks for the effort. Too bad you folks weren't the ones I ran into when I tried PvP and got an impression to last a lifetime.

Sorry to inform you but you still need to do PvP as a DD or healer . Healers should be using Warhorn as well . Stamina DDs need Caltrops . Magicka and Stamina DDs also need Purge from Support tree for certain mechanics . Whatever role you pick , you will have to do PvP to get the most of your character .

Thankfully I have found some endgame builds at Deltias Gaming, which I have been told is pretty solid, that do not require PvP skills.

You are going to have a hard time going far in end-game PvE if you aren't willing to get the necessary skills. Other players will be chosen over you for raids because they will have more abilities at their disposal when the situations call for adaptation. The moment you say "I don't have those skills because I choose not to PvP" will have you marked as someone who is not prepared and not willing to do their part to help the team. And really, why should you be taken on a raid over someone else who has put in the time and effort that you refuse to do?

Still less painful than PvP. And really I may end up finding that this game isn't a good match for me, if ZOS built it so that you can't function in it without being forced into PvP. If that happens I will be sad but there are other games where I don't have to touch PvP so I'll be okay. In the meantime I will just play things that don't make me do stuff that ruins my day.

pizzaow · August 2017

You can make any role (even tank) work without PvP skills. However, you'll do a little bit better with it.

* Any stam dps can work without caltrops; I substituted trapping webs for caltrops; it's a DPS loss, but not much. I missed vigor more than anything
* Tanks could run another skill... standard, magma shell, anything. Warhorn isn't going to be the reason you don't finish a trial. However, there are some utility PvP skills that are nice on occasion: Purge makes some fights (e.g. Velidreth) much easier. Sometimes you might be asked to run Guard. I will usually slot rapids if we are doing a speed run, Vigor is handy on occasion. Shoot, sometimes I'll even run barrier for the extra magic recovery. Again, you don't *need* any of these, it just makes slightly things easier for certain fights.
* Healers are similar to tanks, most will run warhorn, but could run mitigation ultimate's instead. Similar to tanks, purge is a useful skill for healers, but not 100% required.
* magic dps is the only class which doesn't have much need for any PvP skills (possibly purge, but that's rare).

In each of the cases above, if the player didn't have those skills (and many don't), our group would find another way around it. Personally, I like being flexible, but I also hate PvP so I understand.

Too bad this question didn't come a few weeks ago... the double AP event made leveling up skill lines super-easy.

Betsararie · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I appreciate the encouragement attempts, it's very nice of people to take the time. But what I see here is that if I want to do endgame content I need to pick a different role than tank. I was interested in it, but not to the extent that I am willing to do any amount of PvP for it. It's not the mechanics of PvP that bother me, it's PvPers that I have been exposed to. I am just not up to tolerating any amount of bullying, and while I realize that jerks can happen in PvE as well, I have personal experience to tell me that my chances of encountering it are almost 100% in a PvP area vs. very rarely in PvE. Basically people being utterly crappy to me in PvP ruined it for me forever, so I'll just keep working on DPS and healing. Again, thanks for the effort. Too bad you folks weren't the ones I ran into when I tried PvP and got an impression to last a lifetime.

Sorry to inform you but you still need to do PvP as a DD or healer . Healers should be using Warhorn as well . Stamina DDs need Caltrops . Magicka and Stamina DDs also need Purge from Support tree for certain mechanics . Whatever role you pick , you will have to do PvP to get the most of your character .

Thankfully I have found some endgame builds at Deltias Gaming, which I have been told is pretty solid, that do not require PvP skills.

Given Deltia left/stopped making guides with Morrowind I'd take that guide with a grain of salt. Just saying. Alcast has up to date guides.

Magicka dps is probably the role least reliant on PvP skills(endgame-wise; non endgame, it's whatever basically). But then again you might need Purge for certain fights...unless you're a magplar with Purifying I guess.

That said, and please don't take it the wrong way, it seems weird you'd be THAT opposed to PvP because someone was mean to you there. I mean I believe you, some people are jerks, I'm sorry you ran into one of those, but what are you gonna do when you run into a jerk in PvE? Personally my experience has been with a lot more toxicity in PvE than PvP because in PvP numbers are strength, but in PvE an instance only houses so many people so your performance is always up for judgement, and sometimes people prefer to judge not actual performance but amount of cp, quality of gear...or lack of certain skills they're used to seeing - like Warhorn. And there's no "just ignore and go on" in PvE when you're in the middle of an instance with these people. Clearly your experience has been different, but what will you do when/if you run into that jerk in a group dungeon who trash talks you for not having enough cp or whatever as he lies there dead on the very first boss because he was too busy calling you names to step out of aoe? Will you quit PvE as well?

Don't let people spoil your day. This is MUCH easier in PvP mind you because as I said, strength is numbers. Turn zchat off, go in offline mode so no one can whisper you, join a group and stick to it so you don't get ganked or 10v1'd, and off you go. What is the worst they can do, show you a /boo?

I ran into several people who were bored and decided to make it their personal entertainment for a while to just kill me the very second I managed to get on my feet, repeatedly, and mock my requests to at least let me get my bearings as a newbie. I don't have the faith that others have that this wouldn't happen again. It was the equivalent of walking into a bar that isn't marked as a bar owned by a gang, and getting your ass kicked. You don't go into those bars again. And just when I think that maybe it's time to try again, I read the responses from PvPers to other threads, and I see the mocking and the teabagging and the open desire to upset other people for entertainment, and I realize that nothing will ever change, so yeah I will totally forego trying a new role to avoid that kind of nasty experience again. Some of us just cannot afford to take on extra stress in the activity that we go to to get away from stress.

lol. The spawn points in cyro are nowhere near enemies.

All you'd have to do to avoid this is hide your chat box.

But it seems you've already made up your mind. No harm done.

Riptide · August 2017

Tanking a couple of hard instance is far more stressful than the very minor effort to get wahorn. You have to truly be on your toes and everyone depends on you in a hard group or raid.

Your issues with the (very very minor) pvp are because you are overly sensitive to the idea of another thinking human being taking advantage of you. Let go of that. If you are to be the protector of others you must be capable of putting the self/ego aside and doing what must be done.

Once you have you will wonder what the fuss was about.

Minyassa · August 2017

pizzaow wrote: »

You can make any role (even tank) work without PvP skills. However, you'll do a little bit better with it.

* Any stam dps can work without caltrops; I substituted trapping webs for caltrops; it's a DPS loss, but not much. I missed vigor more than anything
* Tanks could run another skill... standard, magma shell, anything. Warhorn isn't going to be the reason you don't finish a trial. However, there are some utility PvP skills that are nice on occasion: Purge makes some fights (e.g. Velidreth) much easier. Sometimes you might be asked to run Guard. I will usually slot rapids if we are doing a speed run, Vigor is handy on occasion. Shoot, sometimes I'll even run barrier for the extra magic recovery. Again, you don't *need* any of these, it just makes slightly things easier for certain fights.
* Healers are similar to tanks, most will run warhorn, but could run mitigation ultimate's instead. Similar to tanks, purge is a useful skill for healers, but not 100% required.
* magic dps is the only class which doesn't have much need for any PvP skills (possibly purge, but that's rare).

In each of the cases above, if the player didn't have those skills (and many don't), our group would find another way around it. Personally, I like being flexible, but I also hate PvP so I understand.

Too bad this question didn't come a few weeks ago... the double AP event made leveling up skill lines super-easy.

Thank you, this is the only post actually answering the question I asked. However due to the overwhelming number of people that have said that Warhorn is a must-have and not having it would be a dealbreaker I don't feel that I would be doing anyone a favor by playing a tank without it.

I considered trying PvP here during the event, but as I was closely watching many of the PvP threads in the forum, and seeing a majority of the type of personality that I find most repellent in play, it only reinforced my aversion. I think people underestimate how uncomfortable some people can find other people when they are trying to be awful. Some people ARE like ducks in the rain and everything runs off their backs and that is great for them, but there are people who utterly lack that ability and I think if those people choose to avoid situations where they are going to get upset, they shouldn't be scolded for making that decision. If I went into PvP and then complained about how I was treated, I would bet money that I would be told "Lol what did you expect". So honestly I am doing everyone a favor by steering clear.

Riptide · August 2017

Some people are like ducks rain...hah. Thats like the folks who find out I skydive, after the requisite "perfectly good airplane" cracks they always think are new - you get the "well some folks heights just don't bother".

I then tell them I have a phobia of heights, and that it never, ever goes away, and show them the sweaty palms I get just telling them stories of my jumps. And how I recite the Litany Against Fear from Dune on every plane ride up through the clouds.

But they don't believe me, not really.

Summon the courage to get it done. If you are on PS4 I will help you.

Betsararie · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

pizzaow wrote: »

You can make any role (even tank) work without PvP skills. However, you'll do a little bit better with it.

* Any stam dps can work without caltrops; I substituted trapping webs for caltrops; it's a DPS loss, but not much. I missed vigor more than anything
* Tanks could run another skill... standard, magma shell, anything. Warhorn isn't going to be the reason you don't finish a trial. However, there are some utility PvP skills that are nice on occasion: Purge makes some fights (e.g. Velidreth) much easier. Sometimes you might be asked to run Guard. I will usually slot rapids if we are doing a speed run, Vigor is handy on occasion. Shoot, sometimes I'll even run barrier for the extra magic recovery. Again, you don't *need* any of these, it just makes slightly things easier for certain fights.
* Healers are similar to tanks, most will run warhorn, but could run mitigation ultimate's instead. Similar to tanks, purge is a useful skill for healers, but not 100% required.
* magic dps is the only class which doesn't have much need for any PvP skills (possibly purge, but that's rare).

In each of the cases above, if the player didn't have those skills (and many don't), our group would find another way around it. Personally, I like being flexible, but I also hate PvP so I understand.

Too bad this question didn't come a few weeks ago... the double AP event made leveling up skill lines super-easy.

Thank you, this is the only post actually answering the question I asked. However due to the overwhelming number of people that have said that Warhorn is a must-have and not having it would be a dealbreaker I don't feel that I would be doing anyone a favor by playing a tank without it.

Just to clarify, Warhorn is only an absolute necessity in trials, in 4 man dungeons (vet or normal), it's just very nice to have. But I won't think twice if I notice the tank isn't using it.

Minyassa · August 2017

Riptide wrote: »

Some people are like ducks rain...hah. Thats like the folks who find out I skydive, after the requisite "perfectly good airplane" cracks they always think are new - you get the "well some folks heights just don't bother".

I then tell them I have a phobia of heights, and that it never, ever goes away, and show them the sweaty palms I get just telling them stories of my jumps. And how I recite the Litany Against Fear from Dune on every plane ride up through the clouds.

But they don't believe me, not really.

Summon the courage to get it done. If you are on PS4 I will help you.

That's great, I'm glad you can do that. My own father used to go rock-climbing to challenge his fear of heights.

I personally go out into the world among people I don't trust just to get errands done, expecting that I could be the victim of a drive-by shooting or catch a disease from someone or get driven into by some fool who's texting and driving, and it takes buckling up my nerve to do that every time because I see nothing but the danger in the world at every turn and it is a constant struggle to function despite that viewpoint. (Before anyone suggests it, yes, I am in therapy. PTSD is not just foxhole flashbacks like in the movies.)

I get that people have to make weighted decisions on what they are willing to risk for a reward. I do that myself. But when I play a game in my leisure time, I want to relax. I am not going to feel accomplished after spending the majority of my down time doing something that makes me miserable just so that I can experiment with something that may or may not be my cup of tea in the long run. That would make me feel like I wasted my leisure time. So far I've enjoyed ESO playing things other than tanks. While it might be interesting to try that role, I just don't see that the projected suffering is worth an uncertain reward. I mean if tanking won me a special mount or something...

But do you see what I'm saying? Sometimes a game NEEDS to be just a game, because you're doing it as a break from the real risks you take every day.

I asked the original question because I saw a disparity between what was listed as a necessity and what I felt able to do, and was looking for an alternative. Now that the majority of answers have shown me that there is not an alternative that would satisfy me or others, I know that I need to look in another direction. At no time have I suggested that other people should not do what is suggested here, I speak only for myself. I appreciate that there is such a thing as working for results, but other people need to appreciate that everyone has a line they're willing to cross for a certain level of reward.

Riptide · August 2017

I get it

You can definitely try tanking without warhorn though, no doubt.

Good luck to you!

Minyassa · August 2017

Riptide wrote: »

I get it

You can definitely try tanking without warhorn though, no doubt.

Good luck to you!

Thank you!

Once I get my DK capped, I will just try a tank configuration and see if I'm any good at it.

I'm sure I can at least run some content with friends who may let me slide if I'm not the greatest. xD

Magdalina · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

pizzaow wrote: »

You can make any role (even tank) work without PvP skills. However, you'll do a little bit better with it.

* Any stam dps can work without caltrops; I substituted trapping webs for caltrops; it's a DPS loss, but not much. I missed vigor more than anything
* Tanks could run another skill... standard, magma shell, anything. Warhorn isn't going to be the reason you don't finish a trial. However, there are some utility PvP skills that are nice on occasion: Purge makes some fights (e.g. Velidreth) much easier. Sometimes you might be asked to run Guard. I will usually slot rapids if we are doing a speed run, Vigor is handy on occasion. Shoot, sometimes I'll even run barrier for the extra magic recovery. Again, you don't *need* any of these, it just makes slightly things easier for certain fights.
* Healers are similar to tanks, most will run warhorn, but could run mitigation ultimate's instead. Similar to tanks, purge is a useful skill for healers, but not 100% required.
* magic dps is the only class which doesn't have much need for any PvP skills (possibly purge, but that's rare).

In each of the cases above, if the player didn't have those skills (and many don't), our group would find another way around it. Personally, I like being flexible, but I also hate PvP so I understand.

Too bad this question didn't come a few weeks ago... the double AP event made leveling up skill lines super-easy.

Thank you, this is the only post actually answering the question I asked. However due to the overwhelming number of people that have said that Warhorn is a must-have and not having it would be a dealbreaker I don't feel that I would be doing anyone a favor by playing a tank without it.

I considered trying PvP here during the event, but as I was closely watching many of the PvP threads in the forum, and seeing a majority of the type of personality that I find most repellent in play, it only reinforced my aversion. I think people underestimate how uncomfortable some people can find other people when they are trying to be awful. Some people ARE like ducks in the rain and everything runs off their backs and that is great for them, but there are people who utterly lack that ability and I think if those people choose to avoid situations where they are going to get upset, they shouldn't be scolded for making that decision. If I went into PvP and then complained about how I was treated, I would bet money that I would be told "Lol what did you expect". So honestly I am doing everyone a favor by steering clear.

Tbh - and I don't want to scare you away - it sounds like you're very likely to feel same aversion to PvE soon as you run into one or two bad pugs

If you think people are only mean in PvP, you're sadly mistaken. Imo it's worse PvE wise because in PvP, only people who can "hurt" you are your enemies and you can always simply go away from them and lose nothing - whereas in PvE it can well be your teammates and going away from them means losing time, possible loot etc on an unfinished run. I suppose one way around would be to never ever pug and only run things with friends(in which case lack of PvP skills would also be less of an issue as even in a raid setting if not aiming for #1 lb people could cut you some slack).
If/when you get a group of friends to run with though, might as well bring them to PvP as well so they protect you and you all can have some good natured fun together

There're a lot of really great people playing this game - along with some jerks. I've had some idiot spoil my day a couple months ago by trash talking(and subsequently kicking in the middle of the dungeon) my cp 140 eu lowbie who was successfully killing a boss as he laid there dead, having died to very first, super easily avoidable attack the boss did. I've also met some really awesome people pugging/running dungeons. I ended up in sour mood and not going back to Cyrodiil for months after getting ganked there several times in a row on my first time(so I guess I kinda know the feeling, though probably not to such extent

). I've later on met some of my best in-game friends on the battlefield - and they were my enemies there.

It's understandable to want to avoid things making you upset. But at the same time, somewhere along with things that can possibly upset us often lie things that are fun and can make us happy. There will always be some bad apples in the basket. The question is, will you let them spoil the whole harvest for you?

pizzaow · August 2017

I was looking through all the ultimates in the game and warhorn is the only ultimate which passively buffs the group's DPS. All other ultimates are designed to either cause damage or mitigate/shield damage.
The closest I've seen is a tank build which runs war machine, and uses a cheap ultimate. I saw a video where someone achieved 100% major slayer up-time using the warden's healing ultimate.

It would be nice to have another dps buff ultimate in addition to warhorn... I noticed that the undaunted skill tree does not have an ultimate, and this would be an excellent place to put a PvE tank ultimate.

If ZOS did add an ultimate designed to buff group dps what would you like to see?

Some ideas:
* [tank morph] applies major vulnerability to a target (increase damage taken by X% for Y seconds)
* [healer morph] applies major magickasteal/staminasteal/lifesteal to an enemy (damaging the target restores X magic/stam/health every second for Y seconds)

FakeFox · August 2017

As a warden you can play the forest with Warmachine or Master Architect, that is actually insanely strong. For all others you can still do the same with any cheap ultimate, but its far less effective. If you don't want those sets there is no alternative. I mean you can play pretty much any ultimate, but it kind of sucks for your group since warhorn is a very strong buff.

Skullstachio · August 2017

When getting warhorn, I find it easier to spend gold (& alliance points) on keep wall masonry kits & other things that repair keep doors & walls, it takes a long time but at least you don't have to complain more often than normal as enemy confrontations are not as frequent when metaphorically playing "Repair man." its how I got war horn for my main dragonknight tank by repairing keep walls & doors as it adds on to assault & support skill lines.

sneakymitchell · August 2017

Why can't there be an alternative to war horn? Like an unduanted one. In which you buff your allies giving them major force and major beserk? That would be the best solution if players can't pvp much or don't want to. It's like some skills forces players to get it cause it's the meta.

FoolishHuman · August 2017

People say it's so easy to get done, but the problem is when you are doing something that you don't really want to it will feel like ages. And this PvP is sometimes really boring with riding around for hours, only to be killed and having to ride back again. Also it might not always be possible to do PvP. You are dependant on other people playing, so if you are not usually playing on evenings or weekends you won't ever be able to collect enough AP alone. This isn't a job and noone should be forced or talked into doing something they don't want to.
That said, the only part you can't do without warhorn or other PvP skills is veteran trials and I guess veteran maelstrom where you might need vigor for stamina characters. That's only a tiny percentage of what this game has to offer, so it's no big loss to just do without it.

Betsararie · August 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

People say it's so easy to get done, but the problem is when you are doing something that you don't really want to it will feel like ages. And this PvP is sometimes really boring with riding around for hours, only to be killed and having to ride back again. Also it might not always be possible to do PvP. You are dependant on other people playing, so if you are not usually playing on evenings or weekends you won't ever be able to collect enough AP alone. This isn't a job and noone should be forced or talked into doing something they don't want to.
That said, the only part you can't do without warhorn or other PvP skills is veteran trials and I guess veteran maelstrom where you might need vigor for stamina characters. That's only a tiny percentage of what this game has to offer, so it's no big loss to just do without it.

yes, but the best tanks have warhorn. If you want to be good at your role, you have to have it. It provides very significant buffs.

Sure, any content outside of vet trials can be completed without it, but I still don't think that's an excuse not to have it.

As for AP, you don't even have to do anything to gain AP. Just join a group, and you gain AP off of things your group does. Capturing a keep will net you 6k, which involves you standing in one place for roughly 30 seconds. It can be done quickly.

FoolishHuman · August 2017

Blanco wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

People say it's so easy to get done, but the problem is when you are doing something that you don't really want to it will feel like ages. And this PvP is sometimes really boring with riding around for hours, only to be killed and having to ride back again. Also it might not always be possible to do PvP. You are dependant on other people playing, so if you are not usually playing on evenings or weekends you won't ever be able to collect enough AP alone. This isn't a job and noone should be forced or talked into doing something they don't want to.
That said, the only part you can't do without warhorn or other PvP skills is veteran trials and I guess veteran maelstrom where you might need vigor for stamina characters. That's only a tiny percentage of what this game has to offer, so it's no big loss to just do without it.

yes, but the best tanks have warhorn. If you want to be good at your role, you have to have it. It provides very significant buffs.

Sure, any content outside of vet trials can be completed without it, but I still don't think that's an excuse not to have it.

As for AP, you don't even have to do anything to gain AP. Just join a group, and you gain AP off of things your group does. Capturing a keep will net you 6k, which involves you standing in one place for roughly 30 seconds. It can be done quickly.

The excuse not to have it is that you don't wanna do the content to get it. And that's a totally valid excuse. As I said, this is not a job and noone should get angry at someone not having that skill outside veteran trials. It might be BIS, but I suspect that only a very small part of the playerbase is running BIS in everything, the game is still running nonetheless and none for the worse.

Betsararie · August 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

People say it's so easy to get done, but the problem is when you are doing something that you don't really want to it will feel like ages. And this PvP is sometimes really boring with riding around for hours, only to be killed and having to ride back again. Also it might not always be possible to do PvP. You are dependant on other people playing, so if you are not usually playing on evenings or weekends you won't ever be able to collect enough AP alone. This isn't a job and noone should be forced or talked into doing something they don't want to.
That said, the only part you can't do without warhorn or other PvP skills is veteran trials and I guess veteran maelstrom where you might need vigor for stamina characters. That's only a tiny percentage of what this game has to offer, so it's no big loss to just do without it.

yes, but the best tanks have warhorn. If you want to be good at your role, you have to have it. It provides very significant buffs.

Sure, any content outside of vet trials can be completed without it, but I still don't think that's an excuse not to have it.

As for AP, you don't even have to do anything to gain AP. Just join a group, and you gain AP off of things your group does. Capturing a keep will net you 6k, which involves you standing in one place for roughly 30 seconds. It can be done quickly.

The excuse not to have it is that you don't wanna do the content to get it. And that's a totally valid excuse. As I said, this is not a job and noone should get angry at someone not having that skill outside veteran trials. It might be BIS, but I suspect that only a very small part of the playerbase is running BIS in everything, the game is still running nonetheless and none for the worse.

I still get angry if someone isn't running it in normal trials even though they are a faceroll, but that aside.

It is a valid excuse there's no arguing that, but it just means you won't be that good at your role. And it's true, you don't have to be. Vet Dlc dungeons can be completed with a functional but low-performing tank. Any other vet dungeons can also be completed with a very low-performing tank.

I do wish that more players played with the mindset that having a BiS build is of the utmost priority, but they don't, and in my opinion the game suffers because of that.

Ironically if people did view this game with more of a 'job' like mentality, they would likely be far better at the game. I certainly put in similar effort to this game that I do in the workplace, and utilize more or less the same mentality.

But that is how I enjoy the game, that is what is enjoyable for me.

Beardimus · August 2017

You might be wise sticking to your guns, without war horn you may get hassle off the trials crowd, I'd say they are way more critical than anyway I've come across in PvP, who are after all the enemy.

Restro Ulti gives part of the same buff, but again its not what you can run it's what people will expect you to run.
I ditto others tho, solo PvP as a noob ain't fun. Establish a group with friends, and go in as a crew on a loo pop server and I'm sure you would be ok. The forum PvP is way more hostile!!

Either way gd luck and respect for playing how you want to!

QuebraRegra · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

I've been looking at tank builds and I need a replacement Ultimate for War Horn. Since that's a PvP skill that ain't gonna happen for me, so what's the next best thing? What do the other carebears use?

I RU. Aggressive warhorn as a hea!er in PUGs

Bowser · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

I've been looking at tank builds and I need a replacement Ultimate for War Horn. Since that's a PvP skill that ain't gonna happen for me, so what's the next best thing? What do the other carebears use?

Destro ult with ice staff.

cpuScientist · August 2017

Minyassa wrote: »

I appreciate the encouragement attempts, it's very nice of people to take the time. But what I see here is that if I want to do endgame content I need to pick a different role than tank. I was interested in it, but not to the extent that I am willing to do any amount of PvP for it. It's not the mechanics of PvP that bother me, it's PvPers that I have been exposed to. I am just not up to tolerating any amount of bullying, and while I realize that jerks can happen in PvE as well, I have personal experience to tell me that my chances of encountering it are almost 100% in a PvP area vs. very rarely in PvE. Basically people being utterly crappy to me in PvP ruined it for me forever, so I'll just keep working on DPS and healing. Again, thanks for the effort. Too bad you folks weren't the ones I ran into when I tried PvP and got an impression to last a lifetime.

Make sure it's not a Stam DPS, you'll need vigor.

Pavlina20 · August 2017

Don't the healers run warhorn? I mean, really. If the tank doesn't run it it isn't the end of the world. Jeez.

AverageJo3Gam3r · August 2017

MehrunesFlagon · August 2017

It's warhorn or gtf out.