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Viper vs Automaton
Vapirko
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Does anyone know if strength of the automaton would out perform vipers in terms of damage or vice versa? Im trying to avoid vipers, cause i really hate cheese. Currently running a no proc build including only 1 pc monster set and doing fine, but sometimes I want some more punch when Im out numbered. Running a stam sorc btw.
Edited by Vapirko on June 22, 2017 12:21PM 1
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Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buffs basically all of DW, most of Two hander, almost nothing for Bow.
If + 400 WD nets you more than 1680 DPS, then it's better.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's not going to outperform Viper. Viper is extremely strong. The Viper proc outweighs what +400 weapon damage gives you.
That said, with enough skill you can be extremely dangerous with Auto. It's especially good on stamplar, and great on stam sorc too, because it buffs literally everything in your kit, with the exception of Poison Injection if you're running bow.
There's no question Auto is an extremely good stamina PVP set. I think the main question for you is what it would be replacing.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Automaton should give less weapon damage than other sets that buffs stuff like 2handed abilites (sword singer), DW abilities (sword dancer) etc. Or Those sets that were named should be given more weapon damage than Automaton that buffs both DW and 2h abilities.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Automaton should give less weapon damage than other sets that buffs stuff like 2handed abilites (sword singer), DW abilities (sword dancer) etc. Or Those sets that were named should be given more weapon damage than Automaton that buffs both DW and 2h abilities.
Keyword is "should" - bc it would make sense. But in reality they both give 400 weapon damage. At least the last time I checked.
The great thing about viper in comparison to other proc sets is, that it is extremly reliably. Not like those 10% from RM. However, automaton must bring you up to do these extra 2500-4500 dmg in your burst window or else viper will outperform it. Not sure if it does tho.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Automaton should give less weapon damage than other sets that buffs stuff like 2handed abilites (sword singer), DW abilities (sword dancer) etc. Or Those sets that were named should be given more weapon damage than Automaton that buffs both DW and 2h abilities.
Keyword is "should" - bc it would make sense. But in reality they both give 400 weapon damage. At least the last time I checked.
The great thing about viper in comparison to other proc sets is, that it is extremly reliably. Not like those 10% from RM. However, automaton must bring you up to do these extra 2500-4500 dmg in your burst window or else viper will outperform it. Not sure if it does tho.
Yea both/all 3 gives the same weapon damage. But why use Sword Singer (2h) or Sword Dancer (DW) set to boost specific skill-lines when you can use Automaton and Boost both for an equal amount (since all skills in 2h and DW are physical damage abilities last time I checked)? Reduce Automaton wpn-damage or buff Sworddancer and Swordsinger.2 -
nCats✭✭✭Reduce Automaton wpn-damage or buff Sworddancer and Swordsinger.
Automaton weapons are harder to get than sword singer, so im fine with both sets being equal in final damage. Sword Dancer though, yes, why bother if.
On topic: in CP environment, a good player with high CP and right distribution (important: crit damage) will get more out of Automaton rather than Viper (remember also that 4-piece bonuses of Viper are not as good as Auto). In non-CP, while viper outperforms, one can still be dangerous with Auto or say Spriggan. One does not have to output maximum possible damage to be good, and playing a non-meta build can be a satisfying challenge.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Reduce Automaton wpn-damage or buff Sworddancer and Swordsinger.
Automaton weapons are harder to get than sword singer, so im fine with both sets being equal in final damage. Sword Dancer though, yes, why bother if.
On topic: in CP environment, a good player with high CP and right distribution (important: crit damage) will get more out of Automaton rather than Viper (remember also that 4-piece bonuses of Viper are not as good as Auto). In non-CP, while viper outperforms, one can still be dangerous with Auto or say Spriggan. One does not have to output maximum possible damage to be good, and playing a non-meta build can be a satisfying challenge.
On topic: thing is that high crit damage is useless against anything with a ward up.
On sets: how "hard" is it to grind an dungeon or overland set shouldn't be a variable when it comes to balance. Viper is also a dungeon set. Weapons and armor can easily be farmed on normal. You only have to step foot in vet dungeons for the jewels. VMA at least requires some skill.1 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Reduce Automaton wpn-damage or buff Sworddancer and Swordsinger.
Automaton weapons are harder to get than sword singer, so im fine with both sets being equal in final damage. Sword Dancer though, yes, why bother if.
On topic: in CP environment, a good player with high CP and right distribution (important: crit damage) will get more out of Automaton rather than Viper (remember also that 4-piece bonuses of Viper are not as good as Auto). In non-CP, while viper outperforms, one can still be dangerous with Auto or say Spriggan. One does not have to output maximum possible damage to be good, and playing a non-meta build can be a satisfying challenge.
On topic: thing is that high crit damage is useless against anything with a ward up.
On sets: how "hard" is it to grind an dungeon or overland set shouldn't be a variable when it comes to balance. Viper is also a dungeon set. Weapons and armor can easily be farmed on normal. You only have to step foot in vet dungeons for the jewels. VMA at least requires some skill.
Problem with wards: We're not only in a stam meta but also in a meta where harness/bastion CP star are very weak. Sorcs are slowly dropping harness (I dropped it recently and find myself stronger on sorc with either an extra ability or IL for max mag on backbar to increase the size of my hardened ward), Magblades who have adapted have dropped harness, Magplars don't even need it, same for mDK, Magden I'm not sure but I assume they don't need it like Magplar.
Also, don't forget, we're still in a heavy meta (unless playing stamblade and possibly stamplar), so the extra crit is still very useful for the crit loss from using heavy + it helps healing.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not going to outperform Viper. Viper is extremely strong. The Viper proc outweighs what +400 weapon damage gives you.
That said, with enough skill you can be extremely dangerous with Auto. It's especially good on stamplar, and great on stam sorc too, because it buffs literally everything in your kit, with the exception of Poison Injection if you're running bow.
There's no question Auto is an extremely good stamina PVP set. I think the main question for you is what it would be replacing.
Not replacing, just a totally different build. Playing with pairing it with eternal hunt. Just messing around really since I got an automoton sharp 2h sword and all the other pieces already.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Reduce Automaton wpn-damage or buff Sworddancer and Swordsinger.
Automaton weapons are harder to get than sword singer, so im fine with both sets being equal in final damage. Sword Dancer though, yes, why bother if.
On topic: in CP environment, a good player with high CP and right distribution (important: crit damage) will get more out of Automaton rather than Viper (remember also that 4-piece bonuses of Viper are not as good as Auto). In non-CP, while viper outperforms, one can still be dangerous with Auto or say Spriggan. One does not have to output maximum possible damage to be good, and playing a non-meta build can be a satisfying challenge.
On topic: thing is that high crit damage is useless against anything with a ward up.
On sets: how "hard" is it to grind an dungeon or overland set shouldn't be a variable when it comes to balance. Viper is also a dungeon set. Weapons and armor can easily be farmed on normal. You only have to step foot in vet dungeons for the jewels. VMA at least requires some skill.
Problem with wards: We're not only in a stam meta but also in a meta where harness/bastion CP star are very weak. Sorcs are slowly dropping harness (I dropped it recently and find myself stronger on sorc with either an extra ability or IL for max mag on backbar to increase the size of my hardened ward), Magblades who have adapted have dropped harness, Magplars don't even need it, same for mDK, Magden I'm not sure but I assume they don't need it like Magplar.
Also, don't forget, we're still in a heavy meta (unless playing stamblade and possibly stamplar), so the extra crit is still very useful for the crit loss from using heavy + it helps healing.
We're still in a heavy meta? Most people I know are playing 5 medium now. I tried going back to heavy. It's fine on my stam DK, def not what it was, hate it on my stam sorc.1 -
Trashs1✭✭✭my stam sorc magdk and mag plar are still heavy... only my stamblade is medium and my magsorc is light
so yea we are still in a heavy armour meta i asumeDolche des Königs (DDK); EuPC, DC, Sotha Sil,0 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭It's not going to outperform Viper. Viper is extremely strong. The Viper proc outweighs what +400 weapon damage gives you.
That said, with enough skill you can be extremely dangerous with Auto. It's especially good on stamplar, and great on stam sorc too, because it buffs literally everything in your kit, with the exception of Poison Injection if you're running bow.
There's no question Auto is an extremely good stamina PVP set. I think the main question for you is what it would be replacing.
Not replacing, just a totally different build. Playing with pairing it with eternal hunt. Just messing around really since I got an automoton sharp 2h sword and all the other pieces already.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Reduce Automaton wpn-damage or buff Sworddancer and Swordsinger.
Automaton weapons are harder to get than sword singer, so im fine with both sets being equal in final damage. Sword Dancer though, yes, why bother if.
On topic: in CP environment, a good player with high CP and right distribution (important: crit damage) will get more out of Automaton rather than Viper (remember also that 4-piece bonuses of Viper are not as good as Auto). In non-CP, while viper outperforms, one can still be dangerous with Auto or say Spriggan. One does not have to output maximum possible damage to be good, and playing a non-meta build can be a satisfying challenge.
On topic: thing is that high crit damage is useless against anything with a ward up.
On sets: how "hard" is it to grind an dungeon or overland set shouldn't be a variable when it comes to balance. Viper is also a dungeon set. Weapons and armor can easily be farmed on normal. You only have to step foot in vet dungeons for the jewels. VMA at least requires some skill.
Problem with wards: We're not only in a stam meta but also in a meta where harness/bastion CP star are very weak. Sorcs are slowly dropping harness (I dropped it recently and find myself stronger on sorc with either an extra ability or IL for max mag on backbar to increase the size of my hardened ward), Magblades who have adapted have dropped harness, Magplars don't even need it, same for mDK, Magden I'm not sure but I assume they don't need it like Magplar.
Also, don't forget, we're still in a heavy meta (unless playing stamblade and possibly stamplar), so the extra crit is still very useful for the crit loss from using heavy + it helps healing.
We're still in a heavy meta? Most people I know are playing 5 medium now. I tried going back to heavy. It's fine on my stam DK, def not what it was, hate it on my stam sorc.
I thought that we were slowly turning to a medium meta myself until I geared up and tested all my chars these past few days. MDK, SDK, Magplar, Storc are all best off in heavy (unless running bow/2h, medium is better for SDK in that case and probably Storc too) but even then I'm seeing a lot of people still run heavy in bow/2h just cause of the damage taken in medium is insane. I'd probably say it's a mixture of heavy and medium, but I do feel people are slowly going back to heavy.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not going to outperform Viper. Viper is extremely strong. The Viper proc outweighs what +400 weapon damage gives you.
That said, with enough skill you can be extremely dangerous with Auto. It's especially good on stamplar, and great on stam sorc too, because it buffs literally everything in your kit, with the exception of Poison Injection if you're running bow.
There's no question Auto is an extremely good stamina PVP set. I think the main question for you is what it would be replacing.
Not replacing, just a totally different build. Playing with pairing it with eternal hunt. Just messing around really since I got an automoton sharp 2h sword and all the other pieces already.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Reduce Automaton wpn-damage or buff Sworddancer and Swordsinger.
Automaton weapons are harder to get than sword singer, so im fine with both sets being equal in final damage. Sword Dancer though, yes, why bother if.
On topic: in CP environment, a good player with high CP and right distribution (important: crit damage) will get more out of Automaton rather than Viper (remember also that 4-piece bonuses of Viper are not as good as Auto). In non-CP, while viper outperforms, one can still be dangerous with Auto or say Spriggan. One does not have to output maximum possible damage to be good, and playing a non-meta build can be a satisfying challenge.
On topic: thing is that high crit damage is useless against anything with a ward up.
On sets: how "hard" is it to grind an dungeon or overland set shouldn't be a variable when it comes to balance. Viper is also a dungeon set. Weapons and armor can easily be farmed on normal. You only have to step foot in vet dungeons for the jewels. VMA at least requires some skill.
Problem with wards: We're not only in a stam meta but also in a meta where harness/bastion CP star are very weak. Sorcs are slowly dropping harness (I dropped it recently and find myself stronger on sorc with either an extra ability or IL for max mag on backbar to increase the size of my hardened ward), Magblades who have adapted have dropped harness, Magplars don't even need it, same for mDK, Magden I'm not sure but I assume they don't need it like Magplar.
Also, don't forget, we're still in a heavy meta (unless playing stamblade and possibly stamplar), so the extra crit is still very useful for the crit loss from using heavy + it helps healing.
We're still in a heavy meta? Most people I know are playing 5 medium now. I tried going back to heavy. It's fine on my stam DK, def not what it was, hate it on my stam sorc.
I thought that we were slowly turning to a medium meta myself until I geared up and tested all my chars these past few days. MDK, SDK, Magplar, Storc are all best off in heavy (unless running bow/2h, medium is better for SDK in that case and probably Storc too) but even then I'm seeing a lot of people still run heavy in bow/2h just cause of the damage taken in medium is insane. I'd probably say it's a mixture of heavy and medium, but I do feel people are slowly going back to heavy.
I'll have to try it. Personally been loving the 5/1/1 medium build with vampire to mitigate some damage below 50% health. I'm not having trouble staying alive really, and I like the mobility with stam sorc and 2H/bow setup. My only issue is being ganked and mag sorcs of decent or good skill level. The mag sorc combos really hurt in medium.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When they nerf procs sets most people will go back to heavy i think.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »When they nerf procs sets most people will go back to heavy i think.
Why is that? Wouldn't it be better to stay in medi for the damage and resource sustain considering there will be less burst damage happening?1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »When they nerf procs sets most people will go back to heavy i think.
Why is that? Wouldn't it be better to stay in medi for the damage and resource sustain considering there will be less burst damage happening?
Strangely enough the highest damaging proc stat sets are heavy for some reason.
Ravager
7th Legion
Fury.
Theres no medium sets that come close to this damage, its easy to sustain in heavy still as well, kodi's got a fury/ww hide/ bs build that sustain quite easy with super high dmg and tankyiness.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »When they nerf procs sets most people will go back to heavy i think.
Why is that? Wouldn't it be better to stay in medi for the damage and resource sustain considering there will be less burst damage happening?
Strangely enough the highest damaging proc stat sets are heavy for some reason.
Ravager
7th Legion
Fury.
Theres no medium sets that come close to this damage, its easy to sustain in heavy still as well, kodi's got a fury/ww hide/ bs build that sustain quite easy with super high dmg and tankyiness.
Yeah i saw that, I'll have to try t again. All I know is my old heavy armor builds with ravager felt awful when Morrowind first dropped.0 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭About the automaton sword singer comparison.
Sword singer actually gives 450 (gold) wep dmg compared to automatons 400. So you would gain 50 base wep dmg for 2h skills, 450 for rally, but loose out on 400 wep dmg for hurricane and trap or DB if you run those.Edited by Ahzek on June 23, 2017 7:25PMJo'Khaljor0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Viper's Sting is essentially BiS for PvP on Stamina builds. This is even truer in Non-CP PvP.
Automaton is a really great set for both PvP and PvE.Edited by Vaoh on June 23, 2017 8:22PM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭About the automaton sword singer comparison.
Sword singer actually gives 450 (gold) wep dmg compared to automatons 400. So you would gain 50 base wep dmg for 2h skills, 450 for rally, but loose out on 400 wep dmg for hurricane and trap or DB if you run those.
Indeed. elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sword-Singer+Set isn't updated yet. Thanks for the clarification.
However, it's doubtful if 400+/-50 extra weapon dmg can outperform an undodgeable 3-4k viper's proc every 4 seconds. Especially with all these awe -inspiring 0-100 heals I see lately.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dude, is it your hobby to necro month old threads with one liners or what?2