Is there a Warden meta?

madchuska83 · August 2017

I really want to build one. But are they really top-tier in any role yet, or still just the jack of all trades?

Vaoh · August 2017

People keep saying "jack of all trades", but this isn't true at all. If they were, they'd be good at everything, but never the best or worst at anything. Right? This is not true at all for Wardens.

There is no Warden meta right now. This is mainly due to them being on par with or slightly below another class spec, or just flat out horrible.

In PvE, they make good tanks and healers. Unfortunately Templar is still the preferred healer, and DK is still the preferred tank. Wardens can be accepted in these roles though if you know what you're doing.
Damage Dealing Wardens are significantly behind in DPS. It doesn't even compare to other classes. You get laughed at for trying to bring one in a trial, especially if you're a Magicka Warden.

As long as you don't care about any competitive content, Wardens are fine.... everything is technically balanced in ESO when viewed this way. However, if you are looking for effectiveness, do not choose a Warden for PvE DPS. They are the only class that is horrible at it.

If choosing a role for your Warden based on effectiveness, I'd say to create a Warden Tank or Healer, leaning mostly toward a Tank.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2017

Just run any class with proc damage set stacking + alchemical poison and spam away.
That is the current meta of most builds.
(No really, don't use proc damage sets. I'm just stating how cheese that build is and I hope you don't buy into using that build)

Also, Wardens aren't the 'jack of all trades'. Templar is the 'jack of all trades', it is much much more versatile than Wardens.

Waseem · August 2017

just spam Cliff Racer and that weird ass shield you got and the healing mushrooms
weird freaky skills but these wardens are hard to gank

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2017

Well for pve there is a warden pulling 37k with MD and Juliano's and a kena piece. I'm trying Scathing and Necro or scathing and julianos. Push bout 27k with purple gear and a percise vMA shock staff.

Countcalorie · August 2017

Waseem wrote: »

just spam Cliff Racer and that weird ass shield you got and the healing mushrooms
weird freaky skills but these wardens are hard to gank

spamming cliff racers only kills potatoes and salty 1vXs that call anything that kill them [snip].
but I mean you get called a spammer if you play as a magwarden anyway cause the pvp community is toxic so spam away.

in my experience there are two ways of playing,the ripoff magsorc(destro-restro just a crappier sorc) or duelwield\SnB With a lot of buffs to maintain.More likely to get called a spammer with the second one but its easier to use with high latency

[Edit to remove inappropriate remark.]

Betsararie · August 2017

basically you roll a warden if it's apparent you can't actually kill anything in pvp, but still want to play pvp. Also if you like cliff racer, and magical forests.

Vaoh · August 2017

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Just run any class with proc damage set stacking + alchemical poison and spam away.
That is the current meta of most builds.
(No really, don't use proc damage sets. I'm just stating how cheese that build is and I hope you don't buy into using that build)

Also, Wardens aren't the 'jack of all trades'. Templar is the 'jack of all trades', it is much much more versatile than Wardens.

Good obversation here. Never thought of this. Templar truly is the jack of all trades class.... in fact they are better than that, since they are the optimal healers

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Just run any class with proc damage set stacking + alchemical poison and spam away.
That is the current meta of most builds.
(No really, don't use proc damage sets. I'm just stating how cheese that build is and I hope you don't buy into using that build)

Also, Wardens aren't the 'jack of all trades'. Templar is the 'jack of all trades', it is much much more versatile than Wardens.

That's the PvP meta. Warden PvE meta is to log off and switch characters.

I agree about templar being a better jack-of-all-trades class.

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Just run any class with proc damage set stacking + alchemical poison and spam away.
That is the current meta of most builds.
(No really, don't use proc damage sets. I'm just stating how cheese that build is and I hope you don't buy into using that build)

Also, Wardens aren't the 'jack of all trades'. Templar is the 'jack of all trades', it is much much more versatile than Wardens.

Good obversation here. Never thought of this. Templar truly is the jack of all trades class.... in fact they are better than that, since they are the optimal healers

They were even top DPS for a while.

EttinTheBreton · August 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

[...]
In PvE, they make good tanks and healers. [...]
Damage Dealing Wardens are significantly behind in DPS. It doesn't even compare to other classes. You get laughed at for trying to bring one in a trial, especially if you're a Magicka Warden.
[...]

Challenge accepted! Lol, for real I just rolled my first warden last night and I had the idea to try out DPS with a Bow and Sword & Board. This is good to know

I'm still going to try to make it work, somehow. It's a mess, any tips?

Dr.NRG · August 2017

No, no warden meta, they really kinda bad overall. They need a huge buff and a giant nerf to to that undodgeable cliff racer. In pvp they are super cheesy but luckily also very weak. If you pick up a kill warden bounty good luck finishing it by the end of the day lol (unless your a zergling fighting other zergs, cause wardens like to hide between em to spamm their undodgeable bullsht)

I

Vaoh · August 2017

EttinTheBreton wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

[...]
In PvE, they make good tanks and healers. [...]
Damage Dealing Wardens are significantly behind in DPS. It doesn't even compare to other classes. You get laughed at for trying to bring one in a trial, especially if you're a Magicka Warden.
[...]

Challenge accepted! Lol, for real I just rolled my first warden last night and I had the idea to try out DPS with a Bow and Sword & Board. This is good to know I'm still going to try to make it work, somehow. It's a mess, any tips?

Well, your Warden will have more or less issues depending on whether you are Stamina or Magicka.

Stamina builds get many of their DPS options outside of Class skill lines. If playing a Stamia Warden, you'll gain some decent Active Skills from Warden skill lines, but notice your passives are terrible compared to other classes. This class spec is not that bad, but is the worst of all of the Stamina DPS specs.

Magicka builds rely on Class skills for the majority of their DPS. Wardens are severely lacking in the Class Active Skill DPS department, and their Passives are quite terrible as well. This causes them to be horrendous at DPS. There is literally nothing you can do to fix that, and believe me I have tried everything. Massive buffs are in order if they are going to be fixed.

A big part of this is also due to them having no execute. DKs gain huge DPS without an execute because they have incredible DoT DPS. Wardens have nothing.

Make sure to build your Warden using the most meta gear setup possible. For HotR, on Stamina you'll use something like 5x TFS, 5x Hunding's Rage/Night Mother's. Magicka will use 5x Julianos, 5x Mother's Sorrow. This will pull the highest DPS.

I wish I could help more. Wardens cannot be good because their strength is dependent on what their 3 Class skill lines contain. Those skill lines are currently not supporting DPS specs well at all. Simple as that.

Check out my thread sometime on how Wardens can easily be fixed here, though ZOS will likely never invest the resources to do anything to help Wardens

Vaoh · August 2017

If you're referring to PvP, Wardens are not bad!

This issue exists only in PvE.

Bryong9ub17_ESO · August 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

People keep saying "jack of all trades", but this isn't true at all. If they were, they'd be good at everything

Obviously you don't know the entire saying " jack of all trades, master of none"

Which you basically agreed with this in your following paragraphs. The warden can do all the rules, but they are not the best at any of them because a different class can out do them. Hence, Jack of all trades, master of none.

Sharee · August 2017

Dr.NRG wrote: »

No, no warden meta, they really kinda bad overall. They need a huge buff and a giant nerf to to that undodgeable cliff racer. In pvp they are super cheesy but luckily also very weak.

Last night i logged on my magicka DK who is specced around buffed heavy flame attacks. The experience was basically: Dodged! Dodged! Dodged! Dodged! Dodged! Hit a shield. Dodged! Dodged! Dodged! Dodged! Dodged! Dodged! Dodged!

THAT is what i call cheesy.

Bryong9ub17_ESO · August 2017

And i dont agree with the templer being "jack of all trades" because technically that can apply to ALL the classes as all classes can do any role. But as I said before, the saying is "jack of all trades, master of none" and the temples is obviously the master at healing (imo)

The warden can do any role, but as it stands it's the master of none.

Countcalorie · August 2017

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

People keep saying "jack of all trades", but this isn't true at all. If they were, they'd be good at everything

Obviously you don't know the entire saying " jack of all trades, master of none"

Which you basically agreed with this in your following paragraphs. The warden can do all the rules, but they are not the best at any of them because a different class can out do them. Hence, Jack of all trades, master of none.

think he ment they did all roles the worst. like there crap at everything.
pve wise I haven't tried yet.but I hear there horrid at all roles.In pvp the only thing they got going for them is the cliffracer.but as soon as someone starts blocking your damage is going in the shitter.you have to time your burst and keep your buffs and dots up to be effective.
oh and if your in pvp always use necropotence.its allways going to be good for magwardens as long as the netch remains untargetable.combine it with something like shacklebreaker,spinners or julianis.

Glamdring · August 2017

It usually goes like this in pvp. As a stamnb i love killing wardencheesespammracerbirdsnoobs problem is they ALWAYS stack in the middle of a group just spamming their OPbrokenundodgable ***. If i catch a warden alone they die fast since they keep doing their zergrotation with shield/heals/birds and thinks thats gonna save em, LOL.

Docmandu · August 2017

Glamdring wrote: »

It usually goes like this in pvp. As a stamnb i love killing wardencheesespammracerbirdsnoobs problem is they ALWAYS stack in the middle of a group just spamming their OPbrokenundodgable ***. If i catch a warden alone they die fast since they keep doing their zergrotation with shield/heals/birds and thinks thats gonna save em, LOL.

just cloak cloak cloak instead of dodge dodge dodge

Flameheart · August 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

EttinTheBreton wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

[...]
In PvE, they make good tanks and healers. [...]
Damage Dealing Wardens are significantly behind in DPS. It doesn't even compare to other classes. You get laughed at for trying to bring one in a trial, especially if you're a Magicka Warden.
[...]

Challenge accepted! Lol, for real I just rolled my first warden last night and I had the idea to try out DPS with a Bow and Sword & Board. This is good to know I'm still going to try to make it work, somehow. It's a mess, any tips?

Well, your Warden will have more or less issues depending on whether you are Stamina or Magicka.

Stamina builds get many of their DPS options outside of Class skill lines. If playing a Stamia Warden, you'll gain some decent Active Skills from Warden skill lines, but notice your passives are terrible compared to other classes. This class spec is not that bad, but is the worst of all of the Stamina DPS specs.

Magicka builds rely on Class skills for the majority of their DPS. Wardens are severely lacking in the Class Active Skill DPS department, and their Passives are quite terrible as well. This causes them to be horrendous at DPS. There is literally nothing you can do to fix that, and believe me I have tried everything. Massive buffs are in order if they are going to be fixed.

A big part of this is also due to them having no execute. DKs gain huge DPS without an execute because they have incredible DoT DPS. Wardens have nothing.

Make sure to build your Warden using the most meta gear setup possible. For HotR, on Stamina you'll use something like 5x TFS, 5x Hunding's Rage/Night Mother's. Magicka will use 5x Julianos, 5x Mother's Sorrow. This will pull the highest DPS.

I wish I could help more. Wardens cannot be good because their strength is dependent on what their 3 Class skill lines contain. Those skill lines are currently not supporting DPS specs well at all. Simple as that.

Check out my thread sometime on how Wardens can easily be fixed here, though ZOS will likely never invest the resources to do anything to help Wardens

Actually this, concerning Wardens as DDs and PvE.

I leveled mine as magicka DD, played a few 4-man vet instances as DD, was extremely underwhelmed, changed to tank and got some healing equip and I am pretty happy now. Wardens are at least decent as tanks and healers in PvE (so they might not outshine a DK tank or a Templar healer, but they are pretty close or even on the same level).

Glamdring · August 2017

Docmandu wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

It usually goes like this in pvp. As a stamnb i love killing wardencheesespammracerbirdsnoobs problem is they ALWAYS stack in the middle of a group just spamming their OPbrokenundodgable ***. If i catch a warden alone they die fast since they keep doing their zergrotation with shield/heals/birds and thinks thats gonna save em, LOL.

just cloak cloak cloak instead of dodge dodge dodge

LOL thx, never thought of that :P

FakeFox · August 2017

They are very strong supporttanks in PvE (you can have your healing ult ready before the previous one has ended and get 90%+ major slayer uptime, pretty broken to be honest.) and DPS on Magicka isn't bad either. For PvP healing and burst DPS are strong.

Haquor · August 2017

Dr.NRG wrote: »

No, no warden meta, they really kinda bad overall. They need a huge buff and a giant nerf to to that undodgeable cliff racer. In pvp they are super cheesy but luckily also very weak. If you pick up a kill warden bounty good luck finishing it by the end of the day lol (unless your a zergling fighting other zergs, cause wardens like to hide between em to spamm their undodgeable bullsht)

I

So if they are very weak then why do you call for a giant nerf to one skill? They are very weak right?

People just hate a counter to perma dodge.

This talk of them not being able to kill anything is quite laughable.

Peekachu99 · August 2017

Warden is the only class that can have a permanent 20% dodge bonus. Warden has a reliable and fantastic aoe lockdown. Wardens have great sustain and utility. I've shelved my DK tank and now main my Warden exclusively for for Trials/ dungeons/ PVE. Only thing a DK has over Warden are chains and Magma Armor, but permanent 30% speed buff and healing ultimate (or pirate skeleton) makes up for that (and it's fun as hell zipping around). Also with Pirate, you can have almost 100% major protection uptime.

Warden healers are just as good as Templars. DPS are okay; but with spinner/ destro/ archmage/ bsw (necro is getting nerfed) they're more than adequate dps. Can't be top tier at everything. But still competive. Could be a console stigma, too, since I've seen plenty of them in PC trials and dungeons.

MornaBaine · August 2017

So okay I will only ever derp about in PvE on my 2 wardens. One is a Breton and will go Magicka and primarily healer. The other is a Nord and I'd like to go Stam and two-hander with her. Suggestions please?

Tryxus · August 2017

MornaBaine wrote: »

So okay I will only ever derp about in PvE on my 2 wardens. One is a Breton and will go Magicka and primarily healer. The other is a Nord and I'd like to go Stam and two-hander with her. Suggestions please?

Breton Healer Warden: Spell Power Cure + Worm Cult/Twilight Remedy with Master Resto and Lightning Staves

EttinTheBreton · August 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

EttinTheBreton wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

[...]
In PvE, they make good tanks and healers. [...]
Damage Dealing Wardens are significantly behind in DPS. It doesn't even compare to other classes. You get laughed at for trying to bring one in a trial, especially if you're a Magicka Warden.
[...]

Challenge accepted! Lol, for real I just rolled my first warden last night and I had the idea to try out DPS with a Bow and Sword & Board. This is good to know I'm still going to try to make it work, somehow. It's a mess, any tips?

Well, your Warden will have more or less issues depending on whether you are Stamina or Magicka.

Stamina builds get many of their DPS options outside of Class skill lines. If playing a Stamia Warden, you'll gain some decent Active Skills from Warden skill lines, but notice your passives are terrible compared to other classes. This class spec is not that bad, but is the worst of all of the Stamina DPS specs.

Magicka builds rely on Class skills for the majority of their DPS. Wardens are severely lacking in the Class Active Skill DPS department, and their Passives are quite terrible as well. This causes them to be horrendous at DPS. There is literally nothing you can do to fix that, and believe me I have tried everything. Massive buffs are in order if they are going to be fixed.

A big part of this is also due to them having no execute. DKs gain huge DPS without an execute because they have incredible DoT DPS. Wardens have nothing.

Make sure to build your Warden using the most meta gear setup possible. For HotR, on Stamina you'll use something like 5x TFS, 5x Hunding's Rage/Night Mother's. Magicka will use 5x Julianos, 5x Mother's Sorrow. This will pull the highest DPS.

I wish I could help more. Wardens cannot be good because their strength is dependent on what their 3 Class skill lines contain. Those skill lines are currently not supporting DPS specs well at all. Simple as that.

Check out my thread sometime on how Wardens can easily be fixed here, though ZOS will likely never invest the resources to do anything to help Wardens

Thank you for the insight!

Although, I have to believe in ZOS considering changes to the balance of the Warden. They have spent considerable amounts of resources on trying to introduce the Warden with the least number of issues possible. Now that thousands and thousands of warden players have mixed with what was meta before (after CP and skills for other classes were changed), they HAVE to be considering changes to everything to balance it out. Probably they will help Wardens in some ways. I'll check out your thread right now!

Yasha · August 2017

I really like my stam warden, I have easy access to most buffs through magikca class abilities and a couple of decent class stamina damage abilities + weapon skills. It has two pretty strong ultimates (healing and storm), but the passives and some of the skills are a bit lackluster. I don't play in trials or any high-end pve; but for pvp and tanking vet dungeons its pretty fun.

I've also run across some great magikca warden builds/players in pvp that are extremely hard to kill, so if there is a meta for warden I would say that tanky/healer type magikca warden would be it (at least in pvp).

Sunburnt_Penguin · August 2017

Don't fret about Stamina PvP: I saw Kodi's "figuring out the stamden meta" stream title last night so he's clearly on the case and I'm sure will inform the community on what the best sets to wear are when he's done.

Beardimus · August 2017

Go to non-cp / BG. Spam birds. Win