CP grinding and its negative impact

IcyDeadPeople · August 2017

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

I miss veteran ranks...

I definitely do not miss them. It was a slow, boring grind to VR16 that resulted in many people quitting the game or just giving up on leveling new characters altogether.

LadyNalcarya · August 2017

KingMagaw wrote: »

A new player joins and they see a CP800 random walking by.

Majority will always feel 'under powered' when facing these numbers regardless if it is true or not.

ZoS hastily addressed this by releasing Trait Research speed up scrolls so new players had a chance to getting 9 trait at a faster rate than most of us did simply because most of us done it at the same time. I rarely craft and its only for a random act of kindness because it is a waste of my play time and mainly a thankless task.

With exp events happening it does level a lot out, while a CP800 will play as usual the same CP 300 might shamelessly repeat Skyreach and get much more exp. The help these have had is marginal i have found and this still needs to be addressed but will be when the CP system is scrapped and a newer broken system is introduced with numbers not so high/visible.

I guess you're right...
Tbh it would be better if they would just hide cps above gear cap (160). After all, those are the most important and they are pretty easy to achieve...

SSlarg · August 2017

" many players who are just grinding to the cap become burned out,"

so much This! ^^^^^

Argah · August 2017

Played a normal dungeon earlier, 2 400+ needing a healer before progressing as they kept dying, I left, another group kicked me as a level 45 tank in a normal dungeon presumably because I was duel wielding full heavy though and undaunted taunt, proper easy mode but still they kick.

Player base is embarrassing in this.

Medakon · August 2017

This post is a joke..

Compering a player level to skills is like compering a banana to a banana tree.

Sure banana has fallen off the tree, but that dosnt mean its good to eat.
Or a students that has study cooking, sure they make food, but that dosnt mean they make good food.

They should grant players max CP when they purchase the game, and increase CEXP gained by 400%, if you think otherwise, to bad. The best players ever set their foot in ESO dosnt come back, because they quit before champion system released, and if they wanna start playing again we are talking about 1-2 months of skyreach with exp buff, 10hours a day of grinding. No wonder the PvE community is dead in this game.

Should take max 1-2 weeks with hardcore grinding to get competetiv in this game, and challenge the top leaderbords in the game.

Beardimus · August 2017

This is what I don't get..what are they all rushing to?

They bypass the good content to get to a place that has less.(end game) it's weird

Plus grinders then moan about lore books and skyshards. If you clear a zone as Intended it's good XP and you get all that stuff on the way.

Medakon · August 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

This is what I don't get..what are they all rushing to?

They bypass the good content to get to a place that has less.(end game) it's weird

Plus grinders then moan about lore books and skyshards. If you clear a zone as Intended it's good XP and you get all that stuff on the way.

If your a hardcore player, you want a shortcut to get straight into the endgame. However, if your not max cp, you have no chance to reaching nr 1 on the leaderbords for raids. And you need to grind months to actually reach this content. Not talking about casuals, but real gamers that actually compete against eachother. I'm talking about players who spends hours on min-max every single stats just to push that extra damage, and if ur not max cp, good luck with that becuase other outpreform you by 15-30% dmg. Those % has alot to say if you wanna be the best, thats why there is no endgame competition in this game anymore, because all PvE guilds left along time ago, because they dont wanna join this grind party.

Also keep in mind, when they first released champion exp, there was no limits on max lvl, so it killed their hardcore players, so only casuals stays to smell flowers, or roleplay, PvP, or wannabe PvE.

Nestor · August 2017

I also have to wonder how many of those CP300's that came out of Skyreach or Dolmen Zergs have 150 to 160 Skill Points, the bare minimum for a 1 Weapon Combat Character who only does PvE.

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The CP grind keeps some of my friends from coming back to the game. No one wants to start off hundreds of CP behind. People can argue all they want about others being lazy or too casual, but that is the majority of the possible player base. They won't keep the servers running from a couple thousand people.

I hate how people call those who don't want to grind "casual". There is nothing hardcore about grinding.

Hardcore is practising a trial every day to get top score. Hardcore isn't running around a faceroll dungeon nuking zombies.

Medakon · August 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The CP grind keeps some of my friends from coming back to the game. No one wants to start off hundreds of CP behind. People can argue all they want about others being lazy or too casual, but that is the majority of the possible player base. They won't keep the servers running from a couple thousand people.

I hate how people call those who don't want to grind "casual". There is nothing hardcore about grinding.

Hardcore is practising a trial every day to get top score. Hardcore isn't running around a faceroll dungeon nuking zombies.

hardcore is how you preform this grind, sure grind 2hours a day and your a casual. But if you wanna be hardcore, your running straght 12-16hours a day with no breaks, maybe skip sleep a night just to get those extra exp.

LadyNalcarya · August 2017

Medakon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The CP grind keeps some of my friends from coming back to the game. No one wants to start off hundreds of CP behind. People can argue all they want about others being lazy or too casual, but that is the majority of the possible player base. They won't keep the servers running from a couple thousand people.

I hate how people call those who don't want to grind "casual". There is nothing hardcore about grinding.

Hardcore is practising a trial every day to get top score. Hardcore isn't running around a faceroll dungeon nuking zombies.

hardcore is how you preform this grind, sure grind 2hours a day and your a casual. But if you wanna be hardcore, your running straght 12-16hours a day with no breaks, maybe skip sleep a night just to get those extra exp.

Why would you do that if eso is so forgiving when it comes to bots?

Riptide · August 2017

Hah, debates about what is "hardcore" from gamers really does make me chuckle out loud.

Back when I started you had a few days to get to 50, almost no quests - and get it all wiped again.

All recreation. All fun.

There is no "hardcore" in this game. Just different play styles.

Once you've carried a rucksack for your chow, gamer geeks debating what is "hardcore" just seems .... pathetic

Medakon · August 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Medakon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The CP grind keeps some of my friends from coming back to the game. No one wants to start off hundreds of CP behind. People can argue all they want about others being lazy or too casual, but that is the majority of the possible player base. They won't keep the servers running from a couple thousand people.

I hate how people call those who don't want to grind "casual". There is nothing hardcore about grinding.

Hardcore is practising a trial every day to get top score. Hardcore isn't running around a faceroll dungeon nuking zombies.

hardcore is how you preform this grind, sure grind 2hours a day and your a casual. But if you wanna be hardcore, your running straght 12-16hours a day with no breaks, maybe skip sleep a night just to get those extra exp.

Why would you do that if eso is so forgiving when it comes to bots?

Who says I don't bot?

Anyways, I suppose it would be faster to run withour bots, as they tend to stuck, and preform at a slowerspeed most of the time. I always have to babysit bots when running them, and it tend to go faster when teaming up with other experience players to grind.

xeNNNNN · August 2017

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Personal opinion.
Remove CP Cap.
Increase Cp gain for new players by at least double. Maybe triple.

Bad idea in my opinion. They either balance the game around unlimited (well, 3600) CP and make it impossible for most, or they don't and we have players soloing 12 person trials again.

thats actually still happening in a way though its not all the bosses in the trials.

That said, I agree that removing the CP cap would just be terrible. Not to mention the unintended effect it would have on PvP as ZoS doesnt want to balance both forms of play separately *sigh*

JWillCHS · August 2017

I don't grind CP. I feel like when I get close to the CP cap they want to raise it again. I had the same problem with the whole veteran rank grind. The Elder Scrolls Online single handedly made me hate the fun of leveling up characters in any MMORPG. It's almost as bad as those Korean grindfests.

It is sad that the only time I feel encouraged to get some more CP intentionally is during a double XP event. I'm currently at 566, and I spent 2 hours grinding CP on a weekend. I said forget this. I just went back to Battlegrounds and doing 4 man dungeons.

Peekachu99 · August 2017

Just play the game! I xferred back to my PC (from PS4) transfer room and had to start from 288 CP. This was 2-3 weeks ago and I'm over 400 now with NO GRINDING.

Just play the game and CP fall from the sky like rain.

GreenhaloX · August 2017

It's you play how you play.. but, yes, it can get a bit annoying here and there running into a group constantly grinding dolmen, bears, or whatever. In Alik'r, it just look like bunch of army ants circulating through the dolmens. It gets really glitchy when those zerg shows up at a dolmen. Seems like more than one group as well. In Bankgorai where peeps are bear farming by the Sunken Road wayshrine, you can't go in there (treasure chests hunting, by the way) without somebody hitting you up for whatever group is currently there. I guess a lot of peeps think if you venture into that area, you are another would-be bear farmer. Oh, and if you happen to do the quest there and have to take out a bear or two to light up the stone pillar (as part of the quest) just be prepared to get a bit of razzing from someone from the bear farming group for disturbing their farming cycle. Ha ha.

All good.. do what you do. Although, I don't see any reason needing to be in a dolmen zerg or bear farming group. I have leveled up 12 toons to max CP just fine without grinding or zerging a dolmen. I guess it's not so bad as seeing them lowbie sorc bots in Coldharbour rags farming/grinding at a location just stationary and spamming heavy inferno blasts; all the while bunch of their daedric pets are out wreaking havoc.

casparian · August 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You just cannot do all the hard content in this game unless you are at the CP cap. No one is going to take you in Vet Trials, certain Vet dungeons, and you get slaughtered in CP PVP.

But until you get to max CP, you are stuck with boring normal dungeons that are just too easy and don't teach mechanics. You are stuck with normal trials which are a *** show and also don't teach mechanics. This is pretty boring.

This is just not true. I'm CP500ish and have been excelling in vet dungeons for a couple hundred CP now. I carried PUG groups through vet dungeons last night, doing 50-60% of group DPS the entire evening. The reason is that I understand the game mechanics, have spent time perfecting my rotation, and have BiS gear. I've cleared every vet dungeon and no one has ever complained about my CP. Nor have I gotten "slaughtered" in CP PVP. And are you telling me I have to be CP630 to do vet Craglorn trials, when literally no one who first beat them had that many CP?

Are there things an extra 130 CP will help with? Sure. Am I locked out of endgame content until I get them? By no means.

Your comment makes me suspect you're part of the problem this thread is pointing out. Once you've hit a certain threshold, player skill still outweighs CP level.

Banana · August 2017

MrBetadine wrote: »

today i had a cp 730 warden in vet BC1 spamming birds (nothing else) at Rilis.......

( and a cp 800+ nightblade spamming lethal arrow...)

Maybe they were leveling those skills

Belidos · August 2017

I don't think the "noob" status of these people you encounter is particularly anything to do with the CP grind, if you have leveled properly from 1 to 50 and gained the first doaen or so CP levels you should know how to play your character, CP's don't add new skills or play styles, they just increase stats, and if anything make things easier.

Where i think this "noob" status comes from is people joining the game fresh and just wanting to get to maximum level as quick as possible so they're grinding level 1 to 50 and not learning their characters.

Strontium · August 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

In Bankgorai where peeps are bear farming by the Sunken Road wayshrine, you can't go in there (treasure chests hunting, by the way) without somebody hitting you up for whatever group is currently there. I guess a lot of peeps think if you venture into that area, you are another would-be bear farmer. Oh, and if you happen to do the quest there and have to take out a bear or two to light up the stone pillar (as part of the quest) just be prepared to get a bit of razzing from someone from the bear farming group for disturbing their farming cycle. Ha ha.

I remember doing that quest on my most recent character. This was my 5th time through all the quests. I went to the first totem and light attacked a bear to pull it to the totem and he suddenly reversed course and I noticed someone was pulling everything. So I HA'd to bring him back and killed him. Mounted up and then saw the dude had pulled like 10 bears, which he apparently couldn't handle, and watched him die. I laughed my ass off.

Animal_Mother · August 2017

You have to grind to 50 every time you begin a new character, but you only have to grind out to CP 160 once. And once you get there all the items you've accumulated along the way are basically worthless. So I can understand the grind to get it done fast.

Then we have artificial CP limits for vet dungeons, because who wants to do the normal ones; time to grind to 300 CP fast... I guess what @Nestor said is correct, there's a bunch of people running around with all the CP in the world, but no skill points. Hey, at least it doesn't cost them a lot to respec.

zaria · August 2017

casparian wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You just cannot do all the hard content in this game unless you are at the CP cap. No one is going to take you in Vet Trials, certain Vet dungeons, and you get slaughtered in CP PVP.

But until you get to max CP, you are stuck with boring normal dungeons that are just too easy and don't teach mechanics. You are stuck with normal trials which are a *** show and also don't teach mechanics. This is pretty boring.

This is just not true. I'm CP500ish and have been excelling in vet dungeons for a couple hundred CP now. I carried PUG groups through vet dungeons last night, doing 50-60% of group DPS the entire evening. The reason is that I understand the game mechanics, have spent time perfecting my rotation, and have BiS gear. I've cleared every vet dungeon and no one has ever complained about my CP. Nor have I gotten "slaughtered" in CP PVP. And are you telling me I have to be CP630 to do vet Craglorn trials, when literally no one who first beat them had that many CP?

Are there things an extra 130 CP will help with? Sure. Am I locked out of endgame content until I get them? By no means.

Your comment makes me suspect you're part of the problem this thread is pointing out. Once you've hit a certain threshold, player skill still outweighs CP level.

This, CP is simply an reward for playing over long time.
Below cp160 is frown upon in veteran dungeons simply because they are unlikely to have decent gear. Yes they probably have an decent crafted set but no gold weapon and no second set.

How much do you gain from the last 300 cp anyway because of diminishing returns?

technohic · August 2017

I was actually drinking and dolmen grinding skill levels the other night and I noticed how often I had to heal people and was wondering "WTF are these people doing? Standing in red?"

Then I looked at the name on one of the health bars and realized it was mine. That's when I knew I had enough to drink.

But seriously though. There were others that I was amazed died often through the night. I don't know how that's possible in those large groups.

idk · August 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

These days every new player I meet seems to be obsessed with cp grinds. We have those dolmen zergs, people buying Skyreach carry (for cps, not for new characters), etc etc.
And maybe its just me and my (bad) luck, but it seems theres much more cp300+ noobs than ever before. And by "noobs" I mean players who fail at basic game mechanics, like blocking or moving out of red circles, let alone dps rotations and other "complicated" things. Maybe those players bought their accounts, but honestly I dont think its that common.
And then there is another problem - many players who are just grinding to the cap become burned out, they lose interest in the game without actually trying it (I mean stuff like quests, dungeons, pvp). Thats not just my assumptions, I often craft for newbies in /z and try to help them out... Many of them were so eager to hit the cap, and quit at cp160ish. Of course, I'm not claiming thats true for every new player, but I think I'm not the only one who noticed that lately.
I really think something needs to be done about this cp obsession.

1. Grinding has been part of this game since the week it was released. Some of the top players in the game, both PvP and PvE have grinded to level up their first character and/or gain CP early on.
2. Doing quests and normal dungeons and especially running with a zerg in PvP do nothing to help a player deal with mechanics. That happens only when they have interest and have someone helping them, explaining.

Back in the early days of this game, when even vet dungeons had mobs where a single mob could one shot a player, I could agree, but much less so now. I used to explain one needed to block of move out of red and that they died due to their own actions, not the healer. Today there are only limited boss mechanics that are an issue that need to really be dealt with and the Skyreach grind probably introduces them to some of it.

The only thing I can kinda agree with is the CP curve concerning XP required needs to be modified further to benefit the new player. However, with the changes made in the current live update it is less important to be at CP cap.

JKoBnZ · August 2017

I bought the game day 1 but only really started playing the game a couple weeks ago. (I know, why the wait) and I feel like i'm having to play a lot of catch up. I wouldn't say i'm good at the game or bad at it, and I've had to learn the mechanics pretty quick but I know the basics of combat from these games. Seeing pretty much everyone around me in game with high CP does make me feel like I shouldn't be playing any PVP until I get high enough which for me is going to take a long time.

klowdy1 · August 2017

I like to bounce around between this game, FF14, and GW2 to keep things from getting stale like this. It keeps the noobs you encounter from getting to you, because you can always go somewhere else with a different kind of noob.

Riptide · August 2017

technohic wrote: »

I was actually drinking and dolmen grinding skill levels the other night and I noticed how often I had to heal people and was wondering "WTF are these people doing? Standing in red?"

Then I looked at the name on one of the health bars and realized it was mine. That's when I knew I had enough to drink

Hey - just two days ago I was surfing threads here, saw a comment I slapped my knee over and thought "this guy gets it!".

Went to agree, realized, uh - its one of my posts.

Time for centrum silver and a fresh bottle of merlot, that one may have turned

ShadowMole25 · August 2017

SSlarg wrote: »

" many players who are just grinding to the cap become burned out,"

so much This! ^^^^^

I find the solution is to keep making new characters based around fun ideas. That's why I only have 80 some cp after almost 2.5 years.

Bouldercleave · August 2017

Medakon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

This is what I don't get..what are they all rushing to?

They bypass the good content to get to a place that has less.(end game) it's weird

Plus grinders then moan about lore books and skyshards. If you clear a zone as Intended it's good XP and you get all that stuff on the way.

If your a hardcore player, you want a shortcut to get straight into the endgame. However, if your not max cp, you have no chance to reaching nr 1 on the leaderbords for raids. And you need to grind months to actually reach this content. Not talking about casuals, but real gamers that actually compete against eachother. I'm talking about players who spends hours on min-max every single stats just to push that extra damage, and if ur not max cp, good luck with that becuase other outpreform you by 15-30% dmg. Those % has alot to say if you wanna be the best, thats why there is no endgame competition in this game anymore, because all PvE guilds left along time ago, because they dont wanna join this grind party.

Also keep in mind, when they first released champion exp, there was no limits on max lvl, so it killed their hardcore players, so only casuals stays to smell flowers, or roleplay, PvP, or wannabe PvE.

That's simply not the focus of this game - and never has been.

You are playing the wrong game. It's not designed that way at all.