Transmogrification (Item appearance change) system discussion thread

nCats · August 2017

Hey,

Since it was confirmed by @ZOS_GinaBruno in a different thread that an item appearance change system is in the works, I'd like to start some discussion to see the community ideas on that system.

1. Dear developers, for the love of all your wonderful helmets and shoulders, please allow changing appearance of all items, including monster sets. The costume wearers can already cover their monster sets. There is nothing unique in Bloodspawn when it's run by a legion of tanks. Some masks don't quite make sense (how would you keep your eyesight in velidreth?). Those in the community who like the look of their characters will be eternally thankful.

2. Having thought about how this system should work, as a player, a possible solution is this: a player has to get the item with the desired look, the item which look they want to change, and go somewhere specific where from the two items, the player would get the look of the former with the properties of the latter.

(I'm not really a developer but maybe this would be also not too hard to implement, it really depends how the appearance of items is coded in game)

It is unclear to me if such a change will affect motif prices, and in which way. Some of the best-looking items are also relatively rare. But maybe some restriction has to be imposed, for example that the newlook-item is crafted by someone, or even by the player themselves. Finally note that the proposed system would allow heavy look like medium etc: the costumes already do that, anyway, and we have undaunted pieces to sort out.

3. What should the "combining" procedure look like? I would simply be fine with money paid to a specific NPC. If that's not the way, well, we could have some sort of "item soul gems" required to complete the operation. This sort of soul gem would absorb the properties of the original item and infuse the look-item with the new properties. Where to get those soul gems, is another story.

So, how would you like to see this system implemented? In before, this is not a weapons colours thread, we know the answer to that one

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DMuehlhausen · August 2017

To make crafting viable again I think it should require crafters to do and not just a right click transmog or something.

However they need to just make it every item regardless of where it's found or a quest item etc.

If they are doing this they need to just make it so you can change item traits as well at this point. Again something around crafters and even make the cost pretty high. Like to retrait an item would cost the amount of materials as it would take to craft an entire set of armor and weapons.

So something like 1300 ingots and 10 stones

Doing this also resets it to green quality and you have to re-upgrade the item to gold. Yeah that sounds harsh, but if you make it easy people will disappear from the world cause nobody will need to farm anymore, and it will stabilize prices over time on the items since people will be needing to use them again.

SaintSubwayy · August 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

If they are doing this they need to just make it so you can change item traits as well at this point. Again something around crafters and even make the cost pretty high. Like to retrait an item would cost the amount of materials as it would take to craft an entire set of armor and weapons.

So something like 1300 ingots and 10 stones

Doing this also resets it to green quality and you have to re-upgrade the item to gold.

Had some similar ides, but maybe its better to include a item which can be bought for 50k / piece by a special NPC.

But to reduce it back to green is to harsh in my oppinion, then better lift the price for retraiting up to 100k or so.

Beardimus · August 2017

Needs to be a master crafter only thing. Make it means something again.

And yeah the only gear in fussed about retooling is Monster Shoulders and them FUGLY Maelstorm Weps!

SaintSubwayy · August 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Needs to be a master crafter only thing. Make it means something again.

And yeah the only gear in fussed about retooling is Monster Shoulders and them FUGLY Maelstorm Weps!

well then there's the problem with bound gear again....

lets say a freind of mine (no mastercrafter yet) dropps a defending MD flamestaff, but i wasnt in the group when he dropped it, so he cannot trade with me so i cant retool the item for him.

ZOS could make al gear bound on equip again and the problem would vanish or you get a new passive in the crafting trees which will allow you to retool 1 item per week per itemtype ( 1 clothing, 1 blacksmithing and 1 woodworking per week in total) or so, similar to vampbite passive

ThePrinceOfBargains · August 2017

Does this mean I finally won't be bound to the mediocrity of crafted sets if I want a specific style?!

RavenSworn · August 2017

honestly this should be done with lesser items needed than the item cost itself imo. Even using Telvar stones would be a better option.

nCats · August 2017

I'm not too sure about master crafter only. It would be better to have awesome nine trait sets rather. The appearance change as I described will already profit crafters as it is usually them who collect motifs etc.

s7732425ub17_ESO · August 2017

So you basically lifted WOW's transmog system and put it into a post. I actually disagree with most of this. I don't think you should have to have an item that looks like what you want to transmog to. Make it easy- you can transmog anything to any known motif that you have. Done. System implemented in a week.

QuebraRegra · August 2017

I had the idea a while back for a CROWN STORE purchased costume "blank"... you'd just put on the gear you want, go to collections, select the "blank" and click "imprint"... BAM! instant dyeable costume based on what you had been wearing at the time you clicked imprint.

Bolsters the crafting community, mats, motifs, etc.

nCats · August 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

So you basically lifted WOW's transmog system and put it into a post. I actually disagree with most of this. I don't think you should have to have an item that looks like what you want to transmog to. Make it easy- you can transmog anything to any known motif that you have. Done. System implemented in a week.

Never played WOW! Funny.

I would agree with what you offer, but

1) There's a reason why it was not coded earlier, apparently the way they coded the itemization does not allow for what you say.
2) Hence why I thought of the solution, which would ``double-stack'' items with saving the look of one and the properties of the other.
3) If you just change motifs, or style materials, you will not be able make light undaunted pieces look heavy armor etc. Definitely an option, but take note.

In effect, we all can see where this is going : new DLC gets announced, with this being a new feature of the Clockwork City. I will be only happy to have it easy once there, but knowing other systems in this game, I doubt it...

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · August 2017

Why does everyone want to add a cost to this (must be non-crafters)? We can already do this with Imperial and Morag Tong for free with the right click feature. The current system should remain in place. Only requirement should be is you have to know the motif...period.

nCats · August 2017

Another thing: should a BoE goodie become BoP after appearance change? I say not, but I guess master crafters lobby won't agree.

nCats · August 2017

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why does everyone want to add a cost to this (must be non-crafters)? We can already do this with Imperial and Morag Tong for free with the right click feature. The current system should remain in place. Only requirement should be is you have to know the motif...period.

Well, ok, am all for no cost.

And no we don't have it with Imperial --- I cannot convert my one tamriel sets or any monster pieces, that is a big ruse unfortunately.

Mettaricana · August 2017

Transmog better work for dropped crafted weapons and undaunted helms and shoulders im dead serious ive about had it with halfassed systems

reiverx · August 2017

nCats wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why does everyone want to add a cost to this (must be non-crafters)? We can already do this with Imperial and Morag Tong for free with the right click feature. The current system should remain in place. Only requirement should be is you have to know the motif...period.

Well, ok, am all for no cost.

And no we don't have it with Imperial --- I cannot convert my one tamriel sets or any monster pieces, that is a big ruse unfortunately.

Yeah I wasn't able to convert my Spinners set into Morag Tong style, but I could convert my Julianos set because it was crafted.

This is something that concerns me about the whole transmog system. They just can't help wiring some stupid restrictions into everything.

Nyladreas · August 2017

With how conversions currently work... I can see some bullcrappery happening to this where you will only be able to transmog crafted and non set pieces. Lmfao...

Mark my words...

EDIT: even better... place it in crown store for 5k and provide vague information letting the player find out later and pull their hair out after realisation.

EvilCroc · August 2017

1. You are a perfect crafter and want to transmogrify items for money.
2. Most items are BoP.
3. ???
4. FAIL

nCats · August 2017

I do not think that the salt-pouring will help move anything out of the current state of affairs.

EvilCroc wrote: »

1. You are a perfect crafter and want to transmogrify items for money.

If we stick with the system I mentioned in the first post, it may be done as follows: the new look item is required to be crafted by a 9 trait crafter. So there goes the master crafting together with BoP issue.

In fact, one can add a distinguished smith place into the game, where one crafts the templates (each template requires 9 traits to craft). Those templates can then be used as skins for any item of the same type (armor element or weapons). Myself, I am not certain if that's a good Idea, but there you go.

I do think the developers realise that we cannot (and don't like the fact that we cannot) appearance-change the new sets with Imperial or Morag Tong conversion tools. I know that the transmog system was in consideration for a long time, and the fact that it is not easy means that the itemization tables are written quite brutally; for example they would have to add Selene in all possible styles into the game, as a potentially existing item (with zero drops), to model all potential transmog choices for Selene.

Or maybe they would have to make worn items into ``containers'' which carry the appearance-item and the property-item. I don't know, but either of those requires work.

So far it seems that many players do want all items to be customisable. I see that some want a simple solution, and others think that crafters should have a say in this. I'm fine with either.

Spacemonkey · August 2017

That 'specific' place really should be some already existing special forges:

-the fighters guild/mages guild end-quest forges comes to mind (especially the fg one), im sure there are others

Or add new ones: (kagrenac's forge in red mountain? complete with new location

?
(allthough people would cry out against it being locked in a dlc - would be cool though)

Recremen · August 2017

It should be either nearly identical to the current Collections UI or downright integrated directly into it. There should be a single up-front cost to it (either crown purchase, achievement unlock, etc.) and then free forever and switched on the fly, just like current costumes, accessories, skins, etc. It would be incredibly inconvenient and player-unfriendly if the means of changing character appearance were broken up into completely different systems.

To hit a few points that specifically get brought up and are bad :

No consumable requirements. The system will be complete crap if it isn't easy to change around like every single other cosmetic systems in the game short of complete character appearance overhaul (the existing appearance change tokens)
Basically the same as above, but no crafting cost requirements. Going to a crafting station and reforging your gear is even worse than a basic consumable item. Let's keep this is accessible as possible.
No "create your own costume". This is both a data issue and a user-friendly one. Having to track who-knows-how-many individually-created costumes across millions of accounts would be a nightmare. It's also easier for users to just select individual pieces they want to use for their look than make a whole new costume every time they want to change something, let alone if they want to individualize the dyes on the items.
No carrying around "cosmetic gear". Having to carry around hundreds of pieces of armor just so you can switch your appearance on the fly is bad design. "Cosmetic slots" are fine as far as how it gets implemented in the UI, but you shouldn't have to equip gear into them, it should just be based on achievement or collections flags such as "knows this motif". This prevents any further escalation of the inventory management nightmare that many of us face, even with ESO Plus.

Also I really hope they're doing it for shields and weapons, not just armor.

KramUzibra · August 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

To make crafting viable again I think it should require crafters to do and not just a right click transmog or something.

However they need to just make it every item regardless of where it's found or a quest item etc.

If they are doing this they need to just make it so you can change item traits as well at this point. Again something around crafters and even make the cost pretty high. Like to retrait an item would cost the amount of materials as it would take to craft an entire set of armor and weapons.

So something like 1300 ingots and 10 stones

Doing this also resets it to green quality and you have to re-upgrade the item to gold. Yeah that sounds harsh, but if you make it easy people will disappear from the world cause nobody will need to farm anymore, and it will stabilize prices over time on the items since people will be needing to use them again.

Yes on any item no on traits

QuebraRegra · August 2017

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why does everyone want to add a cost to this (must be non-crafters)? We can already do this with Imperial and Morag Tong for free with the right click feature. The current system should remain in place. Only requirement should be is you have to know the motif...period.

because ZOS wont bother unless there's profit involved?

ThePrinceOfBargains · August 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why does everyone want to add a cost to this (must be non-crafters)? We can already do this with Imperial and Morag Tong for free with the right click feature. The current system should remain in place. Only requirement should be is you have to know the motif...period.

because ZOS wont bother unless there's profit involved?

There doesn't need to be a direct profit involved in everything they do. Something basic like this should be added just improve the over all experience of the game.

Ghost-Shot · August 2017

Just copy the WoW transmog system.

Ihatenightblades · August 2017

I dont know if i agree with the monster sets appearance change though.

That would mean you can fool someone making them think you are wearing chokethorn but really wearing skoria lol.. too unoriginal

Changing armor is one thing that we all want but monster is kinda too much.

Unless you can only change the monster set to a motif style not another monster set look then thats cool.

Would just hate seeing so many imposters

WuffyCerulei · August 2017

This just has to work with non-crafted sets too. A lot of the BiS sets out there are just so...ugly, like the monster helms. Some look cool, but most are ugly af. The basic racial styles, mostly in light armor, are mostly terrible to look at.

nimander99 · August 2017

FINALLY!

nCats · August 2017

@Ihatenightblades it is already impossible to know what someone who's willing to hide what they are wearing, is wearing. The costumes will not be removed, so I find this argument to be somewhat bogus. In most imaginable transmog ideas it is not possible to change to monster, anyway. Besides they are going more and more towards telegraphs for proc sets, so maybe we will be even less concerned about that in future.

@Recremen to clarify, i was not offering cosmetic gear. The template option described by me would merge with the item. The result is one item in the inventory, different-looking. Otherwise I tend to agree with making it accessible --- indeed, i would even like if it was possible to level your crafting skills by changing an item's appearance.

Recremen · August 2017

nCats wrote: »

@Ihatenightblades it is already impossible to know what someone who's willing to hide what they are wearing, is wearing. The costumes will not be removed, so I find this argument to be somewhat bogus. In most imaginable transmog ideas it is not possible to change to monster, anyway. Besides they are going more and more towards telegraphs for proc sets, so maybe we will be even less concerned about that in future.

@Recremen to clarify, i was not offering cosmetic gear. The template option described by me would merge with the item. The result is one item in the inventory, different-looking. Otherwise I tend to agree with making it accessible --- indeed, i would even like if it was possible to level your crafting skills by changing an item's appearance.

@nCats

I understood your original idea, no worries there! Your original idea falls more under the "consumables" category of things, as it requires the item to have either been found or crafted first before merging them. Even for crafters, that requires a significant time investment just for a single change. I believe this system should be as easy as changing out for a new hairstyle via the Collections UI, or at worst as hard as dyeing your outfit currently is. That is to say, you need a somewhat-significant up-front investment (crown purchase for hairstyles, achievement unlocks for dyes) but then it's free forever afterward and done either on the fly or at readily-available stations that don't have any fuss about them.

nCats · August 2017

@Recremen I see your point. Can't say I see how to realise that universally. What follows below is more musings.

If we look for parallels with the current housing system. There are items which you can craft, find, or get as an achievement trophy.

Consequently, one available option should be to change style material of an item realised via crafting (with the requirement of level 50 in the given tree and the necessary new passive unlocked). Monster sets included, plain and simple, this system would work like the imperial edition convert (back when it used to work, fixing it should come with the transmog system), except now you would change to the styles that you learned.

The obvious property of this system is that heavy does not look like light and vice versa. Maybe it is a good thing, and will motivate some people to keep to their monster sets instead of converting them. I guess I still like the template idea a bit more myself.

The second option would be about adding, in complement to the first option, ``achievement only'' dropped skins. For example, someone who completed Cradle of Shadows achievements would get an option to transform their Velidreth into something even more vicious (a reskin available for Velidreth only), etc. If you can get a skin/costume for something, why not get unique, otherwise unavailable reskins for armor sets? This particular option could get very interesting for weapons, where red is the new and eternal black.

How trophy armor/helmet skins are different from entire costumes? Well, mix and match is a strong thing, even in the real world fashion

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