How I think the game was meant to be played. PvE

tunepunk · August 2017

I see a lot of people complaining about light attack spammers, work on your "rotation" etc etc, especially when it comes to playing a DPS class, so this is just an observation of recent changes and upcoming changes that i feel the devs are tweaking at the moment, and would probably be considered nerfs or buffs to some.

Rotations.
Don't get me started on this one. I firmly believe some skills were never meant to be used in any kind of rotation, and considering the recent changes to cost reduction I'm pretty sure this is one of the goals of the dev team, to have PvE be much more situational like PvP. It was a bit of a setback for some, but some adapted and started to change their rotations to include more heavy attacks, although I don't think the devs intended for it to be so, and I think we will continue to see changes that will make it harder to keep up a lot of skills and buffs at once. If you like this playstyle so be it, but I don't think that was ever intended, and I do think there will be further changes buffing light attacks, and crippling rotations, or at least buffs to builds that are not oriented towards stacking effects from two set of skill bars.

Using skills
Weather you're playing magicka, stamina or hybrid. I think skills were intended to be situational. Something to be used at the right moment in between your light attacks, and not the other way around, spamming skills, and with some animation cancelling to get a few extra light attacks in between the skills. I don't think this is how skills should work. There's skills for burst, for protection, for execute, for area damage, for CC, for heal and all kinds of scenarios, and I don't think they were ever intended to be stacked and kept up to reach 35k+ sustained dps, as a DPS class.

How i think they were intended in a boss fight for example. You use some longer low cost buff, pressure skill to increase your overall damage a bit, a group of adds spawn, and this is when you start to burst them down, or apply AOE skills, etc. Not keeping up a rotations of different buffs, and ground AOE effects and just pull adds into the fire.

Two skill bars
Have you ever noticed in group finder there's an option to pick multiple roles? Yes you can actually pick more than one, and i think the idea behind 2 different skill bars, was so that you could quickly change role on demand, and help out when needed. Although it's absolutely possible to go DPS for both bars, I think one would be single target oriented, and one would be for AOE situations, and not meant for stacking effects and buffs.

Anyone else did similar observations and considering recent changes? Or what do you think the aim of the devs are?

humpalicous · August 2017

Maybe I misread something, or maybe I misinterpreted your point, but this is an MMO.

1. PVE 4 man group content (or trials) is meant to be completed with a few dedicated roles. DD's should deal as much damage as humanly possible, healers should heal teammates and tanks should keep most of the aggro. Pretty straightforward concept. And in order to maximize each role in a PVE group environment, the respective player must have a decent rotation.
2. Vet Trials will be veeery hard on a player who uses a "situational playstyle" like PVP. Good luck finding a group who wants this kind of player in their raid.
3. There are 2 skills bars to maximize rotations, that's what I believe.

I'm sorry, but your observations just don't align with the nature of MMO's.

Hope I didn't misread, long day at work

Tasear · August 2017

Every notice how boring heavy attack animations are to look at? Just saying frost and fire look the same. If they made too animations look better that would be nice

sadownik · August 2017

@tunepunk i see 4 stars so its a little awkward but i have to ask - did you play the same game i did? Elder Scrolls Online?

No idea what you are babbling about. Dont use skills, use skills situationaly or use skills in between light and heavy attacks? Decide silly.

Can you queue as tank and a healer? Sure can! But do you seriously believe that all it takes to change from one role to another is change bars, i pity poor pugs in vet dungeons that have bad luck playing with players like you.

tunepunk · August 2017

humpalicous wrote: »

Maybe I misread something, or maybe I misinterpreted your point, but this is an MMO.

1. PVE 4 man group content (or trials) is meant to be completed with a few dedicated roles. DD's should deal as much damage as humanly possible, healers should heal teammates and tanks should keep most of the aggro. Pretty straightforward concept. And in order to maximize each role in a PVE group environment, the respective player must have a decent rotation.
2. Vet Trials will be veeery hard on a player who uses a "situational playstyle" like PVP. Good luck finding a group who wants this kind of player in their raid.
3. There are 2 skills bars to maximize rotations, that's what I believe.

I'm sorry, but your observations just don't align with the nature of MMO's.

Hope I didn't misread, long day at work

I agree completely about roles, you should be performing to the top of your ability whatever you chose to do, but I don't think it was intended to be a dual bar rotation, with effects and buffs kept up almost 100% of the time. And of course there will always be some form of rotations for a longer fight.

But I just get the feeling they are trying to make rotations look more like this:

SKILL > SKILL > LA > LA > LA > LA > SKILL > LA > LA > LA > LA > LA > etc.
instead of the other way around, where you have a few light or heavy attacks in between your Skill spamming.

I could be wrong, but I just get the feeling this is where the game is going.

kylewwefan · August 2017

I'm not the greatest DPS but there's not much way you're taking on mobs or boss with 2mil health just button mashing. If you're taking too long some things enrage and run around one shot your teammates.

It may not have been the original intent, but it is what has become of the game.

Ever think it strange that you have to kill something with millions of health while you only have 18k health? Or the stamina used for skills acts more like green magic.

Why do toons feel noticeably weaker as they level up and progress towards champion rank? Shouldn't they be getting inherently stronger?

Fecius · August 2017

What was that I've just read? Go play Skyrim. This is MMO, baby, and in high-end it will always be about best ways to perform ur role. And noone cares about "what ZOS was planning" if it's inefficient at all.

Septimus_Magna · August 2017

@tunepunk
With buffs not up 100% of the time you do less dps, even if you only light/heavy attack. So it would be foolish not to have buffs up anyway.

Casting light attacks doesnt require any skill so that would mean anyone can do a perfect dmg rotation just by tapping LMB. If this is the way the game is going then it will be boring af.

The current dmg rotations are pretty difficult for the average player because you need to weave lights attacks in between skills to get high dps. Besides weaving you need to stick to your rotation or risk messing up the uptime of these skills. Its great that it takes a lot of skill to perform a perfect dmg rotation because that gives players something to work on.

Many players dont like pvp and I dont think they would appreciate it if pve gets more like pvp.

Bladerunner1 · August 2017

There's no way the devs ever planned to nerf regen so badly that you'd only be able to use one skill every 4 seconds. It would kill off everyone's interest of course, but have you ever compared light attack spam for each weapon?

Bows: 1/2 second timespan between light attacks
Dual Wield: 1 second timespan between light attacks
2H: 1 1/2 second timespan (rough estimate, but it's noticeably very slow)

Within four seconds of LA spam, you get more damage out of bow.

The global cooldown on skill use is 1 second, no matter which weapon you have slotted, so you can technically weave in light attacks between skills once every second across the spectrum of weapon choices. Running out of stamina on 2H is the worst possible DPS outcome, and it's already on the lowest rung for DPS in PVE.

tunepunk · August 2017

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

There's no way the devs ever planned to nerf regen so badly that you'd only be able to use one skill every 4 seconds. It would kill off everyone's interest of course, but have you ever compared light attack spam for each weapon?

Bows: 1/2 second timespan between light attacks
Dual Wield: 1 second timespan between light attacks
2H: 1 1/2 second timespan (rough estimate, but it's noticeably very slow)

Within four seconds of LA spam, you get more damage out of bow.

The global cooldown on skill use is 1 second, no matter which weapon you have slotted, so you can technically weave in light attacks between skills once every second across the spectrum of weapon choices. Running out of stamina on 2H is the worst possible DPS outcome, and it's already on the lowest rung for DPS in PVE.

Well, it just seems like they are trying to close the dps gap between light attack spammers (less optimal builds and rotations) and tight meta rotations, but I think is a good thing. If you only were tossing skills every other 2-3 seconds due to sustain, but your dps remained the same because of increased damage elsewhere, from light attacks for example. What difference would it make? It still takes skill to keep up your dps, but it would close the gap between a perfect rotation and a not so perfect one.

I've been playing around with some light attack and weapon proc oriented builds fur fun and could easily reach 20k dps, casting minimal ammount of skills (mostly buffs) I even noticed some loss in dps with these kind of builds by adding skills into the mix, as fewer light attacks meant dps drops.

Anyway i think it's good if they are closing the gap between light attack spammers and solid rotations, and meta builds. The game will be more inclusive and promote build diversity unless you're aiming for the latest meta.

apostate9 · August 2017

tunepunk wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

Maybe I misread something, or maybe I misinterpreted your point, but this is an MMO.

1. PVE 4 man group content (or trials) is meant to be completed with a few dedicated roles. DD's should deal as much damage as humanly possible, healers should heal teammates and tanks should keep most of the aggro. Pretty straightforward concept. And in order to maximize each role in a PVE group environment, the respective player must have a decent rotation.
2. Vet Trials will be veeery hard on a player who uses a "situational playstyle" like PVP. Good luck finding a group who wants this kind of player in their raid.
3. There are 2 skills bars to maximize rotations, that's what I believe.

I'm sorry, but your observations just don't align with the nature of MMO's.

Hope I didn't misread, long day at work

I agree completely about roles, you should be performing to the top of your ability whatever you chose to do, but I don't think it was intended to be a dual bar rotation, with effects and buffs kept up almost 100% of the time. And of course there will always be some form of rotations for a longer fight.

But I just get the feeling they are trying to make rotations look more like this:

SKILL > SKILL > LA > LA > LA > LA > SKILL > LA > LA > LA > LA > LA > etc.
instead of the other way around, where you have a few light or heavy attacks in between your Skill spamming.

I could be wrong, but I just get the feeling this is where the game is going.

You are now about to get hit by a truckload of hate, sorry about that. But you're right, and the ZOS team has always indicated through their words and design decisions that this is the case. Right down to the decision to mirror the single-player resource pools, instead of cool-downs. They want the skills to be situational, and for you to use your weapon to (gasp) attack. They're gonna keep tweaking things I imagine, untl the point gets across to those who think ESO and WOW are interchangeable.

Didaco · August 2017

Tbh, I completely agree with the op.

Let's not forget that animation canceling was an unintended feature and that the player base has adapted to it way before the devs did.

Inserting LA in between skills has always been the most efficient and "mathematically" right thing to do in order to push up dps as much as possible.
Zos has acknowledged and adapted the game after the AC practice became rampant (because AC cannot be removed from game, it'd require a complete overhaul), changing mobs to be essentially damage sponges and empowering LAs to be the uncontested tool in order to deal damage when weaved.

klowdy1 · August 2017

This is nonsense. Our bars are already one of the smallest of any MMO, why would you have 2 different specs ready to go with a weapon swap? You don't change your gear, so going from stam dps to healer, or tank wouldn't work. ZoS has stated the name of the game is resource management, not using abilities situationally. They want abilities to be used, they just don't want them spammed mindlessly.

MalagenR · August 2017

That might be how you view it, but sadly your opinion is wrong.

Magdalina · August 2017

That sounds like one extremely boring game to play, with the "vision" you're describing.

Whatever ZOS intended...wanna know what they originally intended? For starters they never intended pure stamina dps to exist(did you say you were a stam build?). There have been no stamina class skills at launch and for I think over a year after that. They never intended for templars to be anything but healers as was purely indicated by their crap sustain and damage but hands down op healing at launch and for months and months after it. They also obviously intended for DKs to be tanks and sorc/NB dps only and were genuinely taken aback when people didn't quite like that setup.

Whatever ZOS intended, players have turned this game into something much more fluent, interactive and teamwork oriented. ZOS' issue is they still haven't caught up to that and keep trying to make light attack spam viable rather than try to teach people how to play beyond that. Yet at the same time they still make content that is impossible to complete without actually learning to play, it's just that there's no way to learn to play outside of said content, nothing to prepare people.

Also, making light attack spam more viable encourages build diversity? I'm sorry - what? What diversity is there if no matter your class, build and weapon you just spam light attacks? That just sounds so yawningly boring.

There're not so many things that can keep people playing after they've completed all the content available and whatnot. RP'ers and partially PvPers have their own game to play but for PvE(and partially PvP as well) the biggest thing keeping people playing is progression. Throw that in the trash can and what's there left once quests run out?

Mazbt · August 2017

I disagree. No explanation needed. try killing a vet trial boss with what you are suggesting. With an average group with average tanks and healers who are not gonna sustain for an hour plus while we slowly....slowly kill a boss.

jorgeh401b14_ESO · August 2017

In order for them to get us to use light attacks over skills is to make L/H attacks fun. right now the boring swing animation and 3.5s cast time on heavy attacks is just boring and no fun at all to do over and over again. but the light attack and heavy of the staffs are fun to use.

We have two spams right now, one that cost resource and the other thats a weapon attack and the main reason we spam skills over weapon attacks they do more damage. if im spaming my light attack and weaving skills here and there vs a person who is spaming skills and weaving in light attacks, Ill lose, so why do it?

Each weapon having its own spam skill and each weapon having an attack animation for light and heavy attacks we have three ways of doing two things. the weapon skill spam and weapon attacks need to merge.

weapons need there own ability bar with two slots one for heavy and one for light.

I suggest they make heavy attacks do the skill line spam, so if you equip a sword and shield your Puncture is cast by just holding the attack button, two handers heavy is uppercut, dual wield is flurry, bow is snipe. this would make attacking with weapons more fun, you wouldn't even need to change how the skills works in the game, they can keep there morph and cost.
add resource gains to light attacks and you mite just have a fun combat experience with weapons attacks

Class spam skilla are also to blame, nightblades veiled strike is a spam, templers have puncturing strikes, mages crystal shard, dragonkights lava wipe and the wardens Dive are the main spam for those classes and take up an ability slot. tempers puncturing strikes and mages crystal shards would be heavy attack skills. while DK's NB's and wardens spam would be light attack skills.

what if each class had there own ability slot for there Light or heavy attack, so if you wanted your lighting staff mage wants to cast crystal shard, slot it in the heavy slot, if you want your lightning aoe heavy attack unslot crystal shards. if you want force shock slot it in your light slot. same for the rest so veiled strike lava wipe and dive can be sloted in the light slot of your weapon ability bar of two slots.

this way weapon attacks slot work like the ultimate slot, its has its own ability bar slot and you can put your classes ultimate or your weapon ultimate but if the weapons heavy or light slot are left empty you attack with your normal weapon L/H attack animations.

jorgeh401b14_ESO · August 2017

tunepunk wrote: »

I see a lot of people complaining about light attack spammers, work on your "rotation" etc etc, especially when it comes to playing a DPS class, so this is just an observation of recent changes and upcoming changes that i feel the devs are tweaking at the moment, and would probably be considered nerfs or buffs to some.

Rotations.
Don't get me started on this one. I firmly believe some skills were never meant to be used in any kind of rotation, and considering the recent changes to cost reduction I'm pretty sure this is one of the goals of the dev team, to have PvE be much more situational like PvP. It was a bit of a setback for some, but some adapted and started to change their rotations to include more heavy attacks, although I don't think the devs intended for it to be so, and I think we will continue to see changes that will make it harder to keep up a lot of skills and buffs at once. If you like this playstyle so be it, but I don't think that was ever intended, and I do think there will be further changes buffing light attacks, and crippling rotations, or at least buffs to builds that are not oriented towards stacking effects from two set of skill bars.

Using skills
Weather you're playing magicka, stamina or hybrid. I think skills were intended to be situational. Something to be used at the right moment in between your light attacks, and not the other way around, spamming skills, and with some animation cancelling to get a few extra light attacks in between the skills. I don't think this is how skills should work. There's skills for burst, for protection, for execute, for area damage, for CC, for heal and all kinds of scenarios, and I don't think they were ever intended to be stacked and kept up to reach 35k+ sustained dps, as a DPS class.

How i think they were intended in a boss fight for example. You use some longer low cost buff, pressure skill to increase your overall damage a bit, a group of adds spawn, and this is when you start to burst them down, or apply AOE skills, etc. Not keeping up a rotations of different buffs, and ground AOE effects and just pull adds into the fire.

Two skill bars
Have you ever noticed in group finder there's an option to pick multiple roles? Yes you can actually pick more than one, and i think the idea behind 2 different skill bars, was so that you could quickly change role on demand, and help out when needed. Although it's absolutely possible to go DPS for both bars, I think one would be single target oriented, and one would be for AOE situations, and not meant for stacking effects and buffs.

Anyone else did similar observations and considering recent changes? Or what do you think the aim of the devs are?

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Ghost-Shot · August 2017

No.

AcadianPaladin · August 2017

I play a templar healer.

On one hand, I agree to an extent about 'rotations'. My healer's output is dramatically reactive in nature to what allies/foes are doing. She doesn't drive the train, she tries to keep it on track and alive and what is needed for that can change rapidly.

On the other hand she needs two bars and swaps between them rapidly to accomplish this. For starters, Elemental Drain (and Blockade for healers who use it) require a destro staff, whereas Healing Springs, Rapid Regen/Mutagen (and Combat Prayer for those who use it) require resto.

bebynnag · August 2017

if your theory is true... then why do all PvE dundgeons & trials have an achievment for completing it within a set amount of time

good luck getting Vet sanctum done in under 33 min only using light attacks!

edt caus i made a typo which apparently turned good into a bad word!

Dantaria · August 2017

PHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh sweet, sweet, summer child

Sure, dear. ZoS absolutely intends to make LA spam viable.

Exactly why they made new trial - vHoF. Where finishing it on HM requires 33k+ DPS from every single DD in execute phase. Self-sustained 33k+ DPS, I must add - healers absolutely do not have an opportunity to throw you some shards or bubbles.They are too busy keeping you alive, because all of you are taking a huge dmg from rockets and the longer it takes the more is the damage. If you don't have 33k+ DPS per DD - you wipe, because at one point the damage becomes unhealable.

Same goes for vet, though it's easier. 27k+ DPS per DD.

Suuuuuuuuuuuure. They don't want us to use skills, they don't want us to do a lot of damage... so their newest addition to the game has DPS check on 33k+ DPS per person.

Wait. Something here reaaaaaaly doesn't add up.

tunepunk · August 2017

It's just a theory based on recent changes, and looking at the general design of skills, and looking at parses.

For example In PvE boss fight the only reason Magsorc does more damage than a magplar is that they have more skills and buffs to stack. Most magsorc parses i've seen, what you see in the top of the parse usually is 2 AOE skills, that are not really meant as a single target dps skill.

Liquid lightning. Ground based AOE outperforming pure single target dps skills? Someting is wrong here.
Familiar Pulse. Pet based AOE usually in the next position after Liquid Ligtning. Also not a single target DPS skill.

I think the reason they are high up, is because they are low cost skills and can be kept up during the whole fight. Just looking at the description of the skills, why are AOE dots performing well on single targets?

Same goes for endless hail. I don't think this skill was designed to be used on a single target during a boss fight for the duration of the entire fight.

Endless hail - Usually the first skill used before engaging a GROUP of enemies. This is what is was designed to do.
Endless hail - Kept up the entire duration on a single target boss fight. Not what it was designed to do.

People have recognized their low cost vs damage output and put them in a rotation, where they were not really meant to be. They were designed for AOE situations, not as cheap sustained single target dots.

It just seems that some skills AOE dots are just way too cost effective for their damage output, and that's why they ended up in a single target rotation.

I'm NOT saying anything is wrong with that as every DPS wants to maximize their damage output in some way, I'm just saying that some skills perform too well (cost vs damage) in regards to their purpose, and found their way in to rotations.

These type of skills, either need to be shorter (maybe 4-6 seconds) or have significantly increased cost, so that they are used for their purpose and not for stacking.

Skills like Poison arrow, twin slashes on the other hand. A single target dot, was designed for single target purpose, so it makes sense that they are part of a single target boss rotation.

tunepunk · August 2017

@Dantaria

From 3.0.5 Patch notes.
Increased the damage of Light Attacks by 15%.

Melee weapon expert was buffed as well. Gives up to 35% bonus to light attacks I believe.

They also buffed infused and other things in the latest PTS notes.

Some people saying that infused + torugs will become viable dps, some even say meta meta in some cases (maybe PvP), if it goes live in the current state.

It's just a theory OK, but i think we will see more of these changes coming, as a lot of players are not comfortable with complex rotations, finding it incredibly hard to reach the numbers you're talking about, unless they play meta, BiS, and practice complex rotations.

It seems like they are trying to close the gap between a solid rotation and a not so solid one.

Dantaria · August 2017

tunepunk wrote: »

It's just a theory OK, but i think we will see more of these changes coming, as a lot of players are not comfortable with complex rotations, finding it incredibly hard to reach the numbers you're talking about, unless they play meta, BiS, and practice complex rotations.

It seems like they are trying to close the gap between a solid rotation and a not so solid one.

The question is - and?

Okay, suppose it will help you. I say suppose, because I was in PTS and I can say - having good gear, good understanding of the game and solid rotation is going to become even more important. But suppose. Suppose "not solid rotation" will be buffed.

How does it help you?

Suppose you'll make 22-23k DPS instead of 20k. You still won't be able to clear vMoL with people with the same DPS. You still won't be able to clear vHoF with people with the same DPS. You still won't be able to get Amberplasm and Spiderkith skins with the second DD having the same DPS.

I will be blunt here. Players who are "not comfortable with complex rotations" have only one choice - to stop being interested in any significant end-game.

It isn't bad. You want to relax, to play as easily as possible - be my guest. 20k DPS is actually enough for all non-DLC vet dungeons, unless other DD completely s**k. Just learn the mechanics.

But even Craglorn vTrials get messy if all DDs have 20k. And btw - if you make 20k on skele, there is no guarantee that you'll make 20k on actual boss. I'm ready to bet - the group of "20k on skele with skill-LA-LA-LA" won't pass even poor Varlariel.

vMoL - forget it. vHoF - forget it. Farm of DLC dungs for motifs and helms - forget it.

So okay. Suppose "the gap between a solid rotation and a not so solid one" is reduced. What does it change?

That's right - nothing.

humpalicous · August 2017

I don't really know what OP intended with this post but the fact of the matter remains:

This is an MMO and in such games there is content that requires a lot of player skill and good understanding of the game (veteran dungeons and trials).

ESO has one of the smallest skill bars in any MMO ever, and in order to make that work they made light & heavy attacks spammable, along with most skills.

WoW has a bunch of cooldowns on skills (long time since I played it but think they still have cooldowns) for example.

Trust me, they did not create ESO with the intended purpose of making each bar different and more "Skyrim-esque".

Joy_Division · August 2017

tunepunk wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

Maybe I misread something, or maybe I misinterpreted your point, but this is an MMO.

1. PVE 4 man group content (or trials) is meant to be completed with a few dedicated roles. DD's should deal as much damage as humanly possible, healers should heal teammates and tanks should keep most of the aggro. Pretty straightforward concept. And in order to maximize each role in a PVE group environment, the respective player must have a decent rotation.
2. Vet Trials will be veeery hard on a player who uses a "situational playstyle" like PVP. Good luck finding a group who wants this kind of player in their raid.
3. There are 2 skills bars to maximize rotations, that's what I believe.

I'm sorry, but your observations just don't align with the nature of MMO's.

Hope I didn't misread, long day at work

SKILL > SKILL > LA > LA > LA > LA > SKILL > LA > LA > LA > LA > LA > etc.

How boring. And not how ZoS meant the game to be played.

ZoS wrote:

“Combat in ESO is, and has always been, about fast-paced action... [italics added]

HiImRex · August 2017

Games don't always have to be inclusive of the bottom 20% of human abilities. Next you're gonna tell me it's be better if professional basket ball players should all play in wheel chair so it becomes more inclusive and diverse,

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

Let me get this straight, they dont think we should be doing 35k DPS, but they make bosses with 107 million health.

Also, if you try to DPS on one bar and tank on another in PVE, you will do a *** poor job at both. I feel like you are trying to justify a light attack bow spam as a DPS rotation...

tunepunk · August 2017

Then they are just doing a really *** job of balancing different setups and playstyles. If the only way to beat the absolute engame content is to do min/max meta dw/bow as stamina or dual desto staff as magicka, with nothing inbetween. No hybrid builds, no 2h/desto or 2h/2h.

So you're saying 2h was designed for questing and pvp, it was never designed to be viable in any end game content, either as dps or tank, either as a front bar or back bar. Bow was designed to be the only viable stamina back bar option to complete endgame content, otherwize you cant reach 33k dps checks?

Meta or no end game for u? U think that was really intended? A handul of builds the only viable option to beat the hardest content? Is there any 2h/2h setup that can even be remotely viable end game? if no....

Well then ZoS have a lot of work to do, because not everone wanna play dw/bow. Lucky for me I'm not even mildly interested in trials after doing a couple of runs on both normal and vet, just to see what it's all about, and there's nothing i need that drops there, so I'm likely not going back.

Dantaria · August 2017

tunepunk wrote: »

Meta or no end game for u? U think that was really intended? A handul of builds the only viable option to beat the hardest content? Is there any 2h/2h setup that can even be remotely viable end game?

Well... Of course.

You know, I honestly feel like I'm wasting letters here, but... Screw it. I'm in the mood to waste some letters

Are you familiar with the collocation "maximum of the function"? We have a function - DPS. And we have variables - weapons, gear, champion points, skills.

Of course this function isn't constant. It's nowhere near constant, that's what diversity actually means: the result actually depends on incoming parameters. And we have a certain set of parameters, which results in something close to the absolute possible maximum of the function.

For stamina it's VO + TFS; dual wield + bow; certain CP allocation and certain rotation.

For magicka it's mostly double destro; gear-depending-on-class; certain CP allocation and certain rotation.

Do notice - mostly. Magplars use destro staff + dual wield (2 swords). Things are not suddenly not so easy, huh?

Now. Imagine that you want to make a content for a limited amount of players. A content not everyone will complete, a content for seasoned experienced players who desire a challenge. Around what will you balance it? Damn straight. Around the maximum of the function.

What you want is for that function to become near constant. You want it to slightly fluctuate around a certain number.

What you want is to kill diversity, while hiding under the banner of bringing diversity.

Because if there actually is a diversity - like, for example, now - the function starts fluctiating more and more. If incoming parameters actually matters, the difference is going to be noticable. ESO has obvious flaws now. Very obvious flaws, which were discussed numerous times. But never ever will your view be implemented, because your view means depreciation of the incoming parameters. Your view means the destruction of any diversity.

Yes. 33k DPS checks. Do you know how much good players with good hands and gear can make on skele? ~40k. In case of stamina - and isn't it ironic? - ~45k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eaa2432waKM

Stam nb. 46.6k.

It's actually not "meta or no end-game". It's "approximately meta or no end-game". Because pure meta hits much more than DPS-checks and people actually do understand that.

But yes. Approximately meta or no end-game is absolutely intended. Because end-game by definition is balanced around maximum of the function.

EDIT: typos