It is time to nerf mag sorcs

GeorgeBlack · August 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Here's forums reactions to other classes buff request. "How about no? L2P"

You're seeing that because you want/expect to see that. Plenty of Sorc players acknowledge the other classes' problems. I would even go so far as to say that most Sorc players play at least one other class (and many play all classes), so they also have an interest in improving the other classes.

I'd like to improve the AoEs and survivability of my Stamblade. I'm still genuinely angry that Rushed Ceremony is now a cone effect, which really hit hard the specialness of this ability. My DK... well, he's a tank, so I consider him to be in decent shape, but I'm a little ignorant of what DPS DKs need. All three need work to be able to manage resources as well as my MagSorc does. I don't have a Warden, so I'm also ignorant of its needs.

None of that means I want my MagSorc to become less fun to play. And all these rage threads? That's exactly what you're asking for. You wanna ruin my fun on one of my characters. I don't want to ruin yours. I'd like to see your fun increased. I'd like to see the classes all be roughly as capable and roughly as fun. I have zero interest in harming anyone else's enjoyment of the game. From where I sit, it sure looks like you can't, in honesty, say the same.

For starters 90% of the people in here don't want to increase other peoples fun, nor care about balanced being achieved like you do.
Your last sentence is full of self-rightiousness. I don't want to ruin other peoples fun. I want balance. Balance would mean that every class has equal chances. How am I the one that ruins other peoples fun?

GeorgeBlack · August 2017

@Beardimus

Let me stop you right there.
What's my stance on wardens?

Resources changes? Lost my mind? I LOVED THOSE CHANGES TO RESOURCES. I loved the fact that people need to be mpre careful with their pools. Change your post and I'll read it again.

GeorgeBlack · August 2017

@MasterSpatula
I play stamDK
I called for a removal of Shuffle from the game.
I called for balancing of 2h back in 2015 because it was the go to weapon for stambuilds; still rebuffing calls for 2h weapons to count as 2 pieces, because it's not fair to DW SnB...
I called for a nerf to SnB

How am I trying to ruin your fun in order to outclass your magsorc?
I make suggestions on everything and always the protectors of the feature will try to defend. Like you do now with magsorc.

Snu snu time. Practice on objectivity.

MasterSpatula · August 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@MasterSpatula
I play stamDK
I called for a removal of Shuffle from the game.
I called for balancing of 2h back in 2015 because it was the go to weapon for stambuilds; still rebuffing calls for 2h weapons to count as 2 pieces, because it's not fair to DW SnB...
I called for a nerf to SnB

How am I trying to ruin your fun in order to outclass your magsorc?
I make suggestions on everything and always the protectors of the feature will try to defend. Like you do now with magsorc.

Snu snu time. Practice on objectivity.

Wow, well, that was really unwarranted.

AnviOfVai · August 2017

Flaminir · August 2017

Kalante wrote: »

Best mobility in the game
Best survival in pvp and pve
Best offense in pvp and pve
Best ultimates at their disposal

I know it, you know it, and your grandma knows it too.

plz nerf.

How do you know what my grandma knows?

UrbanMonk · August 2017

Have no fear, Tourugs pact with Oblivion enchant is here.

ChildOfLight · August 2017

Heck, what's this forum become?

Someone -I mean, al lot of people nowdays- shares his genuine concerns about the classes balance and what does he gets in returns?
A bunch of "L2P, noob". Congrats to all of you and your really mature behaviour.

If this game has undertook the slippery slope of both non-ethical players treatment and unbalanced design choices, whose fault is it?
You guys do continue to eat everything thrown at you and harrass who stands up and points out problems.

I have to suppose every community has the game it deserves.
People leaving for more balanced design wise games (read ffxiv) and you are too busy defending your favourite class to see it.

Arizona_Steve wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

It is time to buff the others.

went MagSorc in order to enjoy the game again.

This is something that should not happen. And I myself thought about it.
Then I realized how absourd is a game that force players to this and now I am thinking of leaving totally.

Docmandu · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

1. Warden or Templar can Purge curse (gg sorc burst)

IF they ever fix the betty ... 9/10 times you won't be purging anything on the warden.

Flaminir · August 2017

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Heck, what's this forum become?

Someone -I mean, al lot of people nowdays- shares his genuine concerns about the classes balance and what does he gets in returns?
A bunch of "L2P, noob". Congrats to all of you and your really mature behaviour.

If this game has undertook the slippery slope of both non-ethical players treatment and unbalanced design choices, whose fault is it?
You guys do continue to eat everything throwed at you and harrass who stands up and points out problems.

I have to suppose every community has the game it deserves.
People leaving for more balanced design wise games (read ffxiv) and you are too busy defending your favourite class to see it.

Arizona_Steve wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

It is time to buff the others.

went MagSorc in order to enjoy the game again.

This is something that should not happen. And I myself thought about it.
Then I realized how absourd is a game that force players to this and now I am thinking of leaving totally.

1. The narrative of most of the people saying l2p is quite accurate, even if they are slightly blunt in the way they are putting it. Sorcs are not the all conquering beasts some on the forum would have you believe. The player makes the class. There are beasts on all classes.

2. Sorcs are the highest DPS class because thats their niche. Just as DK's make the best tanks, Templars the best healers etc. Sorcs are worst at every role except damage. Nerf that too much and the class will be useless again as it has been in the past.

3. The game is not forcing you into any class... all classes can hit truly silly damage numbers, the limit is the player skill. There are always a lot of sorcs and always have been... ranged mage play style is always popular. The number of sorcs out there with very low dps is quite staggering.

4. The OP's 'genuine' concerns were portrayed with no detail or constructive feedback. It was meaningless generalities and a blanket 'I dont like this so nerf' approach. When a thread starts off like that it will get people mirroring that approach.... if you are concerned that the responses from the community are not what you had hoped for then the first place to look is at the original post to see if that encouraged positive constructive debate, or if it was more structured as bait for trolls.... I'd say this one was the latter.

technohic · August 2017

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Heck, what's this forum become?

Someone -I mean, al lot of people nowdays- shares his genuine concerns about the classes balance and what does he gets in returns?
A bunch of "L2P, noob". Congrats to all of you and your really mature behaviour.

If this game has undertook the slippery slope of both non-ethical players treatment and unbalanced design choices, whose fault is it?
You guys do continue to eat everything thrown at you and harrass who stands up and points out problems.

I have to suppose every community has the game it deserves.
People leaving for more balanced design wise games (read ffxiv) and you are too busy defending your favourite class to see it.

Arizona_Steve wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

It is time to buff the others.

went MagSorc in order to enjoy the game again.

This is something that should not happen. And I myself thought about it.
Then I realized how absourd is a game that force players to this and now I am thinking of leaving totally.

The last part here on thinking about going mag sorc to have fun again is exactly why I don't want to see mag sorc nerfed. Doing that does not make those classes more fun. I mained a Templar from beta and still do today and I have watched nerf after nerf until magic Templar has gone from tanky in your face, melee; to BOL and RD spamming healbots. Either that or you go trollplar stacking health and running blazing shield but even that is slowly getting pruned.

NB? Better gank/ bomb. Sap has been nerfed to be little more than something for the die hard fans to struggle at.

Sorcs really have been pruned back to be exactly what everyone complains about just as even though people whine about Templar heals, they also have been slowly pigeon holed into doing just that.

It's not that the non sorc classes are bad. It's that they have been limited so much to so few options. My Templar went stam, to have fun and now, I run werewolf a lot even though it's not optimal just looking to enjoy what I can.

You're right though. You shouldn't feel you have to play a specific class to have fun. But it's time to change course. The other classes need to be restored. I fear they don't because they're already worried about power creep from CP, but they need to figure that out and focus on just keeping the game fun.

If they want to nerf anything; look at gear. Game has become too much about itemization

Coilbox · August 2017

Flaminir wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Heck, what's this forum become?

Someone -I mean, al lot of people nowdays- shares his genuine concerns about the classes balance and what does he gets in returns?
A bunch of "L2P, noob". Congrats to all of you and your really mature behaviour.

If this game has undertook the slippery slope of both non-ethical players treatment and unbalanced design choices, whose fault is it?
You guys do continue to eat everything throwed at you and harrass who stands up and points out problems.

I have to suppose every community has the game it deserves.
People leaving for more balanced design wise games (read ffxiv) and you are too busy defending your favourite class to see it.

Arizona_Steve wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

It is time to buff the others.

went MagSorc in order to enjoy the game again.

This is something that should not happen. And I myself thought about it.
Then I realized how absourd is a game that force players to this and now I am thinking of leaving totally.

1. The narrative of most of the people saying l2p is quite accurate, even if they are slightly blunt in the way they are putting it. Sorcs are not the all conquering beasts some on the forum would have you believe. The player makes the class. There are beasts on all classes.

2. Sorcs are the highest DPS class because thats their niche. Just as DK's make the best tanks, Templars the best healers etc. Sorcs are worst at every role except damage. Nerf that too much and the class will be useless again as it has been in the past.

3. The game is not forcing you into any class... all classes can hit truly silly damage numbers, the limit is the player skill. There are always a lot of sorcs and always have been... ranged mage play style is always popular. The number of sorcs out there with very low dps is quite staggering.

4. The OP's 'genuine' concerns were portrayed with no detail or constructive feedback. It was meaningless generalities and a blanket 'I dont like this so nerf' approach. When a thread starts off like that it will get people mirroring that approach.... if you are concerned that the responses from the community are not what you had hoped for then the first place to look is at the original post to see if that encouraged positive constructive debate, or if it was more structured as bait for trolls.... I'd say this one was the latter.

Nailed it.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@MasterSpatula
I play stamDK
I called for a removal of Shuffle from the game.
I called for balancing of 2h back in 2015 because it was the go to weapon for stambuilds; still rebuffing calls for 2h weapons to count as 2 pieces, because it's not fair to DW SnB...
I called for a nerf to SnB

How am I trying to ruin your fun in order to outclass your magsorc?
I make suggestions on everything and always the protectors of the feature will try to defend. Like you do now with magsorc.

Snu snu time. Practice on objectivity.

Careful there... staves are two hander's too...and you know what that would mean!

Moar nerf Sorc threads!

teladoy · August 2017

That Sorcs *** you in combat doesn't mean they need a nerf, it means you have to learn to defend yourself.

ChildOfLight · August 2017

Flaminir wrote: »

1. The narrative of most of the people saying l2p is quite accurate, even if they are slightly blunt in the way they are putting it. Sorcs are not the all conquering beasts some on the forum would have you believe. The player makes the class. There are beasts on all classes.

None makes me believe anything. What I say, what I think, comes from personal experience of the game.
I play since the game went B2P, next to 800cp, tanked every 4men dungeon at any difficult in the game, done some HM Trials, on the way to complete vHoF.

Regularly playing PVP, that is what this thread is all about.

Flaminir wrote: »

. Sorcs are the highest DPS class because thats their niche. Just as DK's make the best tanks, Templars the best healers etc. Sorcs are worst at every role except damage. Nerf that too much and the class will be useless again as it has been in the past.

Not when it comes to pvp, where, for instance, every class has to leverage what it excels in, to win an ipotetical duel.

It's a wide shared opinion, including myself, that MagSorcs' kit excels in too many things. Overall, the OP summarized well enough what MagSorcs excels into, in my opinion.

Plus, it's not a matter of roles. Roles are PVE related stuff and everyone has a job to do there. Pvp is a different topic.
Likewise, it's not correct to talk about DPS. This is a parameter that is rilevante only in PVE.

From all above things, I am not entirely sure you are completely experienced in this kind of topic and I am persuaded you are probably just blindly defending your favourite class

[/quote]

GreenhaloX · August 2017

Another anti-sorc dude crying for a nerf. Read this repost, OP..

Nerf nerfing altogether! It doesn't make sense to keep nerfing things. Buff skills/class for balance. This is forward progress. Do you developer/Zenimax even know what forward progress is? It is a crucial part/aspect of a business and everything life, in general. Constantly adding new contents, but continuously nerfing is not forward progress. Nerfing.. Christ, almighty, what is wrong with you guys?!

GeorgeBlack · August 2017

Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the tankiest class in PvP
Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the most mobile class in PvP
Sorc excels in DPS?
They excels in resource management as well. Behind them comes magDK.
Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the best class which can burst anything by making use of Delayed damage skills. Some idiot said it's the only class that takes unique skill to kill an enemy. Ye you morons. You can easily burst anybody when you have shields protecting you until the delayed damage goes off, at which point magsorcerers with full HP can turn around and dps their targets to death
Sorc excels in DPS? IF ONLY THEY HAD DPS AS THEIR STRONG POINT and not everything else.

Biro123 · August 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the tankiest class in PvP
Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the most mobile class in PvP
Sorc excels in DPS?
They excels in resource management as well. Behind them comes magDK.
Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the best class which can burst anything by making use of Delayed damage skills. Some idiot said it's the only class that takes unique skill to kill an enemy. Ye you morons. You can easily burst anybody when you have shields protecting you until the delayed damage goes off, at which point magsorcerers with full HP can turn around and dps their targets to death
Sorc excels in DPS? IF ONLY THEY HAD DPS AS THEIR STRONG POINT and not everything else.

You're not right y'know.

My vote goes to:
Tankiest: Still DK, Magplar close second
Mobile: STAMsorc Major expedition pots and stam to sprint with is already > streak on its own.
Resource? Hard to say The tanky DK's I come across keep on going while my magsorc is oom.
Best DPS? Probably no. Highest burst? probably no. Best at frequently bursting? - Yes

Feanor · August 2017

Looking forward to your ez mode Sorc vids @GeorgeBlack, please show us how OP it is to be a Sorc. Videos from well known excellent players don't count btw.

GeorgeBlack · August 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Looking forward to your ez mode Sorc vids @GeorgeBlack, please show us how OP it is to be a Sorc. Videos from well known excellent players don't count btw.

By that logic, videos from well know players don't count for anything, since these so called well known players 1vX vs random noobs.

seedubsrun · August 2017

Where's the imagination on these forums or at the bare minimum the logic? Sorcs can do everything and my nightblade is jealous. Is this like a jocks versus nerds kinda thing? Is it so hard to post a thread "Buff xxx class please"? If you have a class that can be decent to great at most things and your preferred class can't and you feel like it should then why not just ask for a buff? Sorcs are mediocre healers and tanks. In PvE they excel at DPS and that's it and they're not even the strongest these days. In PvP they're pretty darn good but so are all the other classes if you know how to play them.

How bout this? New rule: If you want to start a nerf a class thread, begin with a smart and justified argument. Give examples, data, and back up your claims. Just saying "Nerf sorcs now" makes it sound like you were PvPing last night, got killed by a sorc, and then went to the forums to rage.

Didaco · August 2017

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look another one of these...

Learn how to play... as a sorc

Fixed.

idk · August 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Looking forward to your ez mode Sorc vids @GeorgeBlack, please show us how OP it is to be a Sorc. Videos from well known excellent players don't count btw.

By that logic, videos from well know players don't count for anything, since these so called well known players 1vX vs random noobs.

Not really what he is saying. If Sorcs are EZ mode then you should be able to hop on one and rock it in Cyodiil.

Because the biggest misconceptions by players not familiar with a sorc are:

Sorcs are the most mobile class (after 5 seconds of great mobility they are out of magicka)
Sorcs have best resource management when Wardens, mPlars and DKs have the best resource management (stam DKS even have better management than mDKs with more sources for stam).

A skilled Stam DKs can 1v1 many players down faster than a sorc can.

Of course a skill player can tear down a less experienced player regardless of class played. Most complaining about classes in the forums is related to this.

H3rBie · August 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the tankiest class in PvP
Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the most mobile class in PvP
Sorc excels in DPS?
They excels in resource management as well. Behind them comes magDK.
Sorc excels in DPS?
They are the best class which can burst anything by making use of Delayed damage skills. Some idiot said it's the only class that takes unique skill to kill an enemy. Ye you morons. You can easily burst anybody when you have shields protecting you until the delayed damage goes off, at which point magsorcerers with full HP can turn around and dps their targets to death
Sorc excels in DPS? IF ONLY THEY HAD DPS AS THEIR STRONG POINT and not everything else.

LOL,

create a sorc, play a sorc and you'll see that you can't prove this comment...

I guess you'll perform as good as with your current char (in best case) if not worse.. ,

idk · August 2017

Flaminir wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Heck, what's this forum become?

Someone -I mean, al lot of people nowdays- shares his genuine concerns about the classes balance and what does he gets in returns?
A bunch of "L2P, noob". Congrats to all of you and your really mature behaviour.

If this game has undertook the slippery slope of both non-ethical players treatment and unbalanced design choices, whose fault is it?
You guys do continue to eat everything throwed at you and harrass who stands up and points out problems.

I have to suppose every community has the game it deserves.
People leaving for more balanced design wise games (read ffxiv) and you are too busy defending your favourite class to see it.

Arizona_Steve wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

It is time to buff the others.

went MagSorc in order to enjoy the game again.

This is something that should not happen. And I myself thought about it.
Then I realized how absourd is a game that force players to this and now I am thinking of leaving totally.

The game is not forcing you into any class... all classes can hit truly silly damage numbers, the limit is the player skill.

This really says all that is needed to be said.

ZOS_Mika · August 2017

We have had to remove several comments due to baiting. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead.

MehrunesFlagon · August 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Everybody is saying magsorc ain't OP and proceed to describe how an anti magsorc build can kill them, meaning that every player in Cyrodiil needs to run anti magsorc and stop complaining inforums.

I'm sry but does magsorc need to run:
anti stamdk
anti stamNB
anti stamTemp
anti stamDen
anti magTemp
anti magNB
anti magDK
anti magDen

in order to be the winner most of the times in 1v1?
Isn't magsorc the strongest element when the Crown goes through the gates?

Templars have been hit with severe nerfs, NBs have a cloak problem since forever, stamDKs have been nerfed numerous times, warden is a joke, not going there (trash class? OP class? I'll leave you to react to that. Your silence will be funny)
and sorc is coming clean through the other side in every update.
Yep it must be hilarious that people love their classes to ask from Zos balance.

Here's forums reaction to nerf sorc topics. "Ridicule. L2P"
Here's forums reactions to other classes buff request. "How about no? L2P"

In fairness the other classes were kind of overly nerfed.aside from that many people forget that you can interrupt a sorcs shields. In my eyes that is a weakness.mag sorc is also only op in competent hands. yes it may be easier to play for a potato,but to get truly great results you must at least have a clue what you are doing.

MehrunesFlagon · August 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

@GeorgeBlack clearly you don't play much PvP. Wardens kick ass in Non-CP, try a BG at some point.

Sorcs had nerfs every patch last year and most are now pigeon holed into a few remaining setups that work. DW has been beaten on every patch for Mag users in general

You know Morrowind when you all lost your mind over resource cost increases? Well try shield stacking now, 3 shields costs a huge amount that's impossible to sustain for many rotations now and still dosh out damage. All other armour types have free passive protection. Sorcs where hit hardest by resource increases

Check the set changes, mainly Sorc sets getting nerfed.

Ultimate slashed to 500. ONLY sorcs Impacted.

Do sorcs have to beat other classes with special tactics? 100% YES and the easiest class to take on is other sorcs. CC them and dead in seconds

Everyone needs an Anti gank solution we need high Pen to handle the heavy armor meta rubbish

I'm sorry sir but your points above all scream.L2P which is the answer if you are taking a Sorc head on you are doing it wrong.

Perhaps you would prefer L2CaS learn to counter a Sorc. Over L2P

Lastly I challenge all the Sorc haters to just roll one, try it for a month. Send us the videos how you stormed to Emp, and won all your BG's and Duels with your god mode. No, I didn't think so

Fengrush has one I played with and against him on it in bg. Yes, they are good in the right hands.

MehrunesFlagon · August 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Kind of reminds me of all the nerf mdk post from 2014 where everyone that played one defending the hell out of it. Didn't change the fact mdk was OP and needed a nerf. Now or for most of the game sorcs are way over preforming and sorc players are defending the hell out of it.

You really have to consider the fact that mdk were nerfed so hard it took quite a while to recover.Sure many share the same view of not wanting to see zos destroy their class as they did to others.

MehrunesFlagon · August 2017

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

1. The narrative of most of the people saying l2p is quite accurate, even if they are slightly blunt in the way they are putting it. Sorcs are not the all conquering beasts some on the forum would have you believe. The player makes the class. There are beasts on all classes.

None makes me believe anything. What I say, what I think, comes from personal experience of the game.
I play since the game went B2P, next to 800cp, tanked every 4men dungeon at any difficult in the game, done some HM Trials, on the way to complete vHoF.

Regularly playing PVP, that is what this thread is all about.

Flaminir wrote: »

. Sorcs are the highest DPS class because thats their niche. Just as DK's make the best tanks, Templars the best healers etc. Sorcs are worst at every role except damage. Nerf that too much and the class will be useless again as it has been in the past.

Not when it comes to pvp, where, for instance, every class has to leverage what it excels in, to win an ipotetical duel.

It's a wide shared opinion, including myself, that MagSorcs' kit excels in too many things. Overall, the OP summarized well enough what MagSorcs excels into, in my opinion.

Plus, it's not a matter of roles. Roles are PVE related stuff and everyone has a job to do there. Pvp is a different topic.
Likewise, it's not correct to talk about DPS. This is a parameter that is rilevante only in PVE.

From all above things, I am not entirely sure you are completely experienced in this kind of topic and I am persuaded you are probably just blindly defending your favourite class

[/quote]

I have agree even though i play sorc quite a bit. i do, however have some critcism
I feel that shield stacking could go as I see it being purely impractical,and really only viable using extremly high regen. So in essence maybe we should be looking at lich instead. I'm not going to point fingers at Necro though. I can see under given circumstances you would running out of magic rather quickly. Yes more difficult to do if you build right.

Basically what I'm saying shield stacking and regen sets would be good to look into.This would also not effect pve too much.