This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Anything not class specific is a world skill
Alpha-Lupi wrote: »If you want a good warden build to try out in your spare time, Give the Mighty Were-Warden a spin, it does get updated periodically when needed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351953/updated-introducing-the-were-warden-build-for-wardens
also, some words of wisdom to work with when explaining a build @hedna123b14_ESO
offer a little more insight into your build, give it a complete in-depth analysis & people will be more than likely to try it out.
This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.
it looks like dive was left off of your back bar for testing. Wouldn't that effect the dps at all assuming you have the damage passive from having an animal companion slotted?
Major Fracture is provided in DPS tests anyway, just like Major Breech. The idea of a DPS test is not to show what DPS you will have in trials, but to show DPS in a controlled reproducible environment. All classes are tested in these conditions, so you have an etalon you can use. So no problem with Major Fracture.This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.
Alpha-Lupi wrote: »If you want a good warden build to try out in your spare time, Give the Mighty Were-Warden a spin, it does get updated periodically when needed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351953/updated-introducing-the-were-warden-build-for-wardens
also, some words of wisdom to work with when explaining a build @hedna123b14_ESO
offer a little more insight into your build, give it a complete in-depth analysis & people will be more than likely to try it out.
This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.
Alpha-Lupi wrote: »If you want a good warden build to try out in your spare time, Give the Mighty Were-Warden a spin, it does get updated periodically when needed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351953/updated-introducing-the-were-warden-build-for-wardens
also, some words of wisdom to work with when explaining a build @hedna123b14_ESO
offer a little more insight into your build, give it a complete in-depth analysis & people will be more than likely to try it out.
KingYogi415 wrote: »Shout out to OP for not only taking the time to build this rotation seemingly from scratch, but then be willing to share it with a community that has more mouths then brains.
Having a flex spot for dive really makes the stam warden attractive for vet trials. I do miss bloodthirst tho, weaving three heavy attacks looks boring AF. Not to mention the time I spent farming vma to get said weapons...
Cheers!
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Feel like your CP distribution is not ideal for a stam Warden. 3 of your top damage-dealing skills (Subterranean, Endless Hail [albeit somewhat counter-intuitively], Dive) are driven by Master at Arms and Mighty almost exclusively, and get absolutely nothing from Thaumaturge; and since MaA increases damage faster than mighty, it should always be highest, with no less than 56 CP invested. SA and EH would be way under-powered with this CP distribution, and for most stam wardens, they are the top two damage-dealing skills in PVE.
Personally, I like about 66 CP in MaA with another 10 in Physical weapons Expert because it scales so well, and because heavy attacks are becoming a much bigger part of our damage distribution. Then 56 in mighty, 56 in precise strikes, 6 in piercing, and 26 in thaumaturge.
Rotation wise, I feel like you aren't utilizing Subterranean as efficiently as possible. It has to be cast every 3-3.5 seconds or you're missing out on a large percentage of potential damage, but I know it is difficult to sustain in combat. Nothing throws a warden rotation out of whack more than mandatory heavy attacks due to the need to fill-in subterranean's cooldown with as many abilities as possible
Tip: Listening to music with a 6/8 time signature while practicing your rotation for Warden helps a lot, I've found. Tool's "Schism", the Animals "House of the Rising Sun", Queen's "We are the Champions", Perfect Circle's "The Hollow", and the Beatles' "Happiness is a Warm Gun" all work really well.
1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
I tested it before Horns of the Reach, and it definitely only was buffed by Master at arms and Mighty. As I posted, its incredibly counter-intuitive, but unless that champion point was changed for HotR and I missed it in the patch notes, it gets nothing from Thauma.2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
If you had 66 CP in MaA, you might use it more...3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
I'm only passing on what I've found from personal experimentation on my own stam warden.
If you are heavy attacking every 3-4 seconds on average, and light attacking weaving 2-3 times between heavy attacks, then it's definitely more efficient than investing in thaumaturge to boost just your poison injection, trap beast, and (maybe) caltrops. A 10% increase to LA/HA will usually add 0.6%-0.8% total DPS to your rotation. That's more than you will get from other champion point possibilities at a certain point.5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
I don't disagree on this one, but if you are optimizing for trials in an environment where all the physical resistance debuffs are up, then you'll only really need about 600 penetration to fully penetrate, so anymore than 6 CP in piercing will be overkill, and with over 50 points in mighty and MaA, the next best booster for damage will be precise strikes. It affects all of your skills and assuming you aren't using the shadow, crit damage bonuses are stronger when you have less of it and lots of crit chance. This amount of CP would put your modfier a little under 1.7x without trap beast, which at 100% crit chance would be equivalent to a roughly 13.3% increase to damage done; more than you are getting from the same amount in mighty. With trap beast up it's slightly less compared to mighty, but essentially the two are equally beneficial for non-stamblades and non-stamplars.6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
I'm at work, so it would be difficult, but I'm ultimately working towards that. I built my Warden on my girlfriend's account and she had yet to reach level 50 on either of her toons, so I've only gotten to CP 240 on this account as of yesterday after starting this character maybe 7 weeks ago at level 1 She has just leveled her first character to max level on my account which is currently at CP 632. In other words, my build still needs optimization, but what I can do is post a video showing my unbuffed tooltips as I increase CP in Thauma, Mighty, and MaA in increments of 3%.
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
I tested it before Horns of the Reach, and it definitely only was buffed by Master at arms and Mighty. As I posted, its incredibly counter-intuitive, but unless that champion point was changed for HotR and I missed it in the patch notes, it gets nothing from Thauma.2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
If you had 66 CP in MaA, you might use it more...3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
I'm only passing on what I've found from personal experimentation on my own stam warden.
If you are heavy attacking every 3-4 seconds on average, and light attacking weaving 2-3 times between heavy attacks, then it's definitely more efficient than investing in thaumaturge to boost just your poison injection, trap beast, and (maybe) caltrops. A 10% increase to LA/HA will usually add 0.6%-0.8% total DPS to your rotation. That's more than you will get from other champion point possibilities at a certain point.5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
I don't disagree on this one, but if you are optimizing for trials in an environment where all the physical resistance debuffs are up, then you'll only really need about 600 penetration to fully penetrate, so anymore than 6 CP in piercing will be overkill, and with over 50 points in mighty and MaA, the next best booster for damage will be precise strikes. It affects all of your skills and assuming you aren't using the shadow, crit damage bonuses are stronger when you have less of it and lots of crit chance. This amount of CP would put your modfier a little under 1.7x without trap beast, which at 100% crit chance would be equivalent to a roughly 13.3% increase to damage done; more than you are getting from the same amount in mighty. With trap beast up it's slightly less compared to mighty, but essentially the two are equally beneficial for non-stamblades and non-stamplars.6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
I'm at work, so it would be difficult, but I'm ultimately working towards that. I built my Warden on my girlfriend's account and she had yet to reach level 50 on either of her toons, so I've only gotten to CP 240 on this account as of yesterday after starting this character maybe 7 weeks ago at level 1 She has just leveled her first character to max level on my account which is currently at CP 632. In other words, my build still needs optimization, but what I can do is post a video showing my unbuffed tooltips as I increase CP in Thauma, Mighty, and MaA in increments of 3%.
1. Just tested it....definitely scales with thaum as it always did...
2. I dont use it because i dont think its a DPS gain...as you mentioned above making sure that Subterranian Assualt is always up is key and you cant keep it up without heavy attacking 4 times...
3. It does not...these things are not estimated or guessed man, they are mathematically calculated by an addon...
4. Total penetration necesary - 18100
Sunderflame - 3340
Major Fracture - 5280
Minor Fracture (80% uptime) - 1056
Nightmothers - 2580
Infused Crusher (75%) - 1581
Alkosh (80%) - 2408
Total pen - 16245
Difference - 1855
In my group we dont have a stamplar so our pen is short by 3k on easy trials...on harder trials sunderflame, infused crusher are a lot lower than 100%, so we are around 4k short...hence why CP is necessary...so not sure what you mean...
5. I can tell you that in my opinion the skill, set and CP distribution is the best possible one, calculated and tested meticulously. But you are welcome to prove me wrong by posting a parse:)
Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
I tested it before Horns of the Reach, and it definitely only was buffed by Master at arms and Mighty. As I posted, its incredibly counter-intuitive, but unless that champion point was changed for HotR and I missed it in the patch notes, it gets nothing from Thauma.2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
If you had 66 CP in MaA, you might use it more...3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
I'm only passing on what I've found from personal experimentation on my own stam warden.
If you are heavy attacking every 3-4 seconds on average, and light attacking weaving 2-3 times between heavy attacks, then it's definitely more efficient than investing in thaumaturge to boost just your poison injection, trap beast, and (maybe) caltrops. A 10% increase to LA/HA will usually add 0.6%-0.8% total DPS to your rotation. That's more than you will get from other champion point possibilities at a certain point.5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
I don't disagree on this one, but if you are optimizing for trials in an environment where all the physical resistance debuffs are up, then you'll only really need about 600 penetration to fully penetrate, so anymore than 6 CP in piercing will be overkill, and with over 50 points in mighty and MaA, the next best booster for damage will be precise strikes. It affects all of your skills and assuming you aren't using the shadow, crit damage bonuses are stronger when you have less of it and lots of crit chance. This amount of CP would put your modfier a little under 1.7x without trap beast, which at 100% crit chance would be equivalent to a roughly 13.3% increase to damage done; more than you are getting from the same amount in mighty. With trap beast up it's slightly less compared to mighty, but essentially the two are equally beneficial for non-stamblades and non-stamplars.6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
I'm at work, so it would be difficult, but I'm ultimately working towards that. I built my Warden on my girlfriend's account and she had yet to reach level 50 on either of her toons, so I've only gotten to CP 240 on this account as of yesterday after starting this character maybe 7 weeks ago at level 1 She has just leveled her first character to max level on my account which is currently at CP 632. In other words, my build still needs optimization, but what I can do is post a video showing my unbuffed tooltips as I increase CP in Thauma, Mighty, and MaA in increments of 3%.
1. Just tested it....definitely scales with thaum as it always did...
2. I dont use it because i dont think its a DPS gain...as you mentioned above making sure that Subterranian Assualt is always up is key and you cant keep it up without heavy attacking 4 times...
3. It does not...these things are not estimated or guessed man, they are mathematically calculated by an addon...
4. Total penetration necesary - 18100
Sunderflame - 3340
Major Fracture - 5280
Minor Fracture (80% uptime) - 1056
Nightmothers - 2580
Infused Crusher (75%) - 1581
Alkosh (80%) - 2408
Total pen - 16245
Difference - 1855
In my group we dont have a stamplar so our pen is short by 3k on easy trials...on harder trials sunderflame, infused crusher are a lot lower than 100%, so we are around 4k short...hence why CP is necessary...so not sure what you mean...
5. I can tell you that in my opinion the skill, set and CP distribution is the best possible one, calculated and tested meticulously. But you are welcome to prove me wrong by posting a parse:)
Torug's Infused crusher?
If thauma is moving it now, it wasn't before. I'll test it when I get home. Either way, it's still going to boost your DPS, at worst, on an even level with thauma.
I personally put a lot more in penetration, but since you were optimizing your build for full penetration scenarios, that's why I went with lower CP in piercing.
Also, I'm not guessing. I've already tested this mathematically and in the game, AND SO HAVE YOU. Look at the fight recap on your video. 14% of your damage came from light attacks and heavy attacks. light and heavy attacks make up between 5%-15% of damage for most DPS builds. That's 0.5%-1.5% more damage done with a 10% increase. It's basic arithmetic, and you're build would be on the high side of that DPS increase range. All you'd need to increase your total DPS by 1% is a 7% increase from CP to LA/HA.
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
I tested it before Horns of the Reach, and it definitely only was buffed by Master at arms and Mighty. As I posted, its incredibly counter-intuitive, but unless that champion point was changed for HotR and I missed it in the patch notes, it gets nothing from Thauma.2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
If you had 66 CP in MaA, you might use it more...3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
I'm only passing on what I've found from personal experimentation on my own stam warden.
If you are heavy attacking every 3-4 seconds on average, and light attacking weaving 2-3 times between heavy attacks, then it's definitely more efficient than investing in thaumaturge to boost just your poison injection, trap beast, and (maybe) caltrops. A 10% increase to LA/HA will usually add 0.6%-0.8% total DPS to your rotation. That's more than you will get from other champion point possibilities at a certain point.5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
I don't disagree on this one, but if you are optimizing for trials in an environment where all the physical resistance debuffs are up, then you'll only really need about 600 penetration to fully penetrate, so anymore than 6 CP in piercing will be overkill, and with over 50 points in mighty and MaA, the next best booster for damage will be precise strikes. It affects all of your skills and assuming you aren't using the shadow, crit damage bonuses are stronger when you have less of it and lots of crit chance. This amount of CP would put your modfier a little under 1.7x without trap beast, which at 100% crit chance would be equivalent to a roughly 13.3% increase to damage done; more than you are getting from the same amount in mighty. With trap beast up it's slightly less compared to mighty, but essentially the two are equally beneficial for non-stamblades and non-stamplars.6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
I'm at work, so it would be difficult, but I'm ultimately working towards that. I built my Warden on my girlfriend's account and she had yet to reach level 50 on either of her toons, so I've only gotten to CP 240 on this account as of yesterday after starting this character maybe 7 weeks ago at level 1 She has just leveled her first character to max level on my account which is currently at CP 632. In other words, my build still needs optimization, but what I can do is post a video showing my unbuffed tooltips as I increase CP in Thauma, Mighty, and MaA in increments of 3%.
1. Just tested it....definitely scales with thaum as it always did...
2. I dont use it because i dont think its a DPS gain...as you mentioned above making sure that Subterranian Assualt is always up is key and you cant keep it up without heavy attacking 4 times...
3. It does not...these things are not estimated or guessed man, they are mathematically calculated by an addon...
4. Total penetration necesary - 18100
Sunderflame - 3340
Major Fracture - 5280
Minor Fracture (80% uptime) - 1056
Nightmothers - 2580
Infused Crusher (75%) - 1581
Alkosh (80%) - 2408
Total pen - 16245
Difference - 1855
In my group we dont have a stamplar so our pen is short by 3k on easy trials...on harder trials sunderflame, infused crusher are a lot lower than 100%, so we are around 4k short...hence why CP is necessary...so not sure what you mean...
5. I can tell you that in my opinion the skill, set and CP distribution is the best possible one, calculated and tested meticulously. But you are welcome to prove me wrong by posting a parse:)
Torug's Infused crusher?
If thauma is moving it now, it wasn't before. I'll test it when I get home. Either way, it's still going to boost your DPS, at worst, on an even level with thauma.
I personally put a lot more in penetration, but since you were optimizing your build for full penetration scenarios, that's why I went with lower CP in piercing.
Also, I'm not guessing. I've already tested this mathematically and in the game, AND SO HAVE YOU. Look at the fight recap on your video. 14% of your damage came from light attacks and heavy attacks. light and heavy attacks make up between 5%-15% of damage for most DPS builds. That's 0.5%-1.5% more damage done with a 10% increase. It's basic arithmetic, and you're build would be on the high side of that DPS increase range. All you'd need to increase your total DPS by 1% is a 7% increase from CP to LA/HA.
Our tanks dont use torugs. Thaum was always moving it...as for CP I said this above, I guess yoi didnt underatand, I have an addon that calculates the CP...its better than what you or I could do by hand....to clarify why heavy weapons is garbage you have to understand that weapon attacks only buffs you weapon attacks. On the other hand mighty, precise strikes and penetration buff all of your damage. Thaum buffs all of your DoTs which is quite a bit of your damage and Master at Arms buffs all of your direct damage including your heavy attacks...meaning each star buffs multiple sources of damage, while heavy weapons buff a single source. The addon uses an algorithm to plot the best fit CP distribution.
Again parses plz...
Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
I tested it before Horns of the Reach, and it definitely only was buffed by Master at arms and Mighty. As I posted, its incredibly counter-intuitive, but unless that champion point was changed for HotR and I missed it in the patch notes, it gets nothing from Thauma.2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
If you had 66 CP in MaA, you might use it more...3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
I'm only passing on what I've found from personal experimentation on my own stam warden.
If you are heavy attacking every 3-4 seconds on average, and light attacking weaving 2-3 times between heavy attacks, then it's definitely more efficient than investing in thaumaturge to boost just your poison injection, trap beast, and (maybe) caltrops. A 10% increase to LA/HA will usually add 0.6%-0.8% total DPS to your rotation. That's more than you will get from other champion point possibilities at a certain point.5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
I don't disagree on this one, but if you are optimizing for trials in an environment where all the physical resistance debuffs are up, then you'll only really need about 600 penetration to fully penetrate, so anymore than 6 CP in piercing will be overkill, and with over 50 points in mighty and MaA, the next best booster for damage will be precise strikes. It affects all of your skills and assuming you aren't using the shadow, crit damage bonuses are stronger when you have less of it and lots of crit chance. This amount of CP would put your modfier a little under 1.7x without trap beast, which at 100% crit chance would be equivalent to a roughly 13.3% increase to damage done; more than you are getting from the same amount in mighty. With trap beast up it's slightly less compared to mighty, but essentially the two are equally beneficial for non-stamblades and non-stamplars.6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
I'm at work, so it would be difficult, but I'm ultimately working towards that. I built my Warden on my girlfriend's account and she had yet to reach level 50 on either of her toons, so I've only gotten to CP 240 on this account as of yesterday after starting this character maybe 7 weeks ago at level 1 She has just leveled her first character to max level on my account which is currently at CP 632. In other words, my build still needs optimization, but what I can do is post a video showing my unbuffed tooltips as I increase CP in Thauma, Mighty, and MaA in increments of 3%.
1. Just tested it....definitely scales with thaum as it always did...
2. I dont use it because i dont think its a DPS gain...as you mentioned above making sure that Subterranian Assualt is always up is key and you cant keep it up without heavy attacking 4 times...
3. It does not...these things are not estimated or guessed man, they are mathematically calculated by an addon...
4. Total penetration necesary - 18100
Sunderflame - 3340
Major Fracture - 5280
Minor Fracture (80% uptime) - 1056
Nightmothers - 2580
Infused Crusher (75%) - 1581
Alkosh (80%) - 2408
Total pen - 16245
Difference - 1855
In my group we dont have a stamplar so our pen is short by 3k on easy trials...on harder trials sunderflame, infused crusher are a lot lower than 100%, so we are around 4k short...hence why CP is necessary...so not sure what you mean...
5. I can tell you that in my opinion the skill, set and CP distribution is the best possible one, calculated and tested meticulously. But you are welcome to prove me wrong by posting a parse:)
Torug's Infused crusher?
If thauma is moving it now, it wasn't before. I'll test it when I get home. Either way, it's still going to boost your DPS, at worst, on an even level with thauma.
I personally put a lot more in penetration, but since you were optimizing your build for full penetration scenarios, that's why I went with lower CP in piercing.
Also, I'm not guessing. I've already tested this mathematically and in the game, AND SO HAVE YOU. Look at the fight recap on your video. 14% of your damage came from light attacks and heavy attacks. light and heavy attacks make up between 5%-15% of damage for most DPS builds. That's 0.5%-1.5% more damage done with a 10% increase. It's basic arithmetic, and you're build would be on the high side of that DPS increase range. All you'd need to increase your total DPS by 1% is a 7% increase from CP to LA/HA.
Our tanks dont use torugs. Thaum was always moving it...as for CP I said this above, I guess yoi didnt underatand, I have an addon that calculates the CP...its better than what you or I could do by hand....to clarify why heavy weapons is garbage you have to understand that weapon attacks only buffs you weapon attacks. On the other hand mighty, precise strikes and penetration buff all of your damage. Thaum buffs all of your DoTs which is quite a bit of your damage and Master at Arms buffs all of your direct damage including your heavy attacks...meaning each star buffs multiple sources of damage, while heavy weapons buff a single source. The addon uses an algorithm to plot the best fit CP distribution.
Again parses plz...
You're wrong about thauma. I'm on XBOX and tested it yesterday. Endless Hail got nothing from it. I will look into how it is working now after work.
I'm only trying to give you some advice to improve your build, man. I think you've done really well with it, but we all should be receptive to constructive feedback because the goal is getting better.
Here's why I disagree on PWE. 10% of 14% is 1.4%, so when you reach the point where it costs less to increase heavy and light attacks by 10% than it does to increase your damage done by 1.4% in some other way, physical weapons expert becomes the best CP option, regardless of what your add-on says.
With 50 CP in mighty, you only have a total potential gain of 3.75% left to upgrade.
In thauma and MaA, you have 6.25% more that can be gained after you've placed 50 CP in them, but they affect only some skills or a part of some skills. As you pointed out thauma gets nothing from LA/HA, but MaA does help. You're most heavily used skills will typically benefit most from MaA as well, and most of your DOTs will get slightly buffed by it on the initial hit.
Precise strikes gets the sharpest diminishing returns as even with 100% crit chance, it only gets you an increase of 3.7% damage done with the final 50 CP. Realistically, it's more like 2%-3% (for those in the 53%-80% weapons critical range), and the number is less for nightblades, templars, and anybody who uses Trap Beast (which is everyone).
The first 50 CP in Physical weapons expert for your build would increase your total damage done by more than the last 50 CP in precise strikes for any stam build. It also should beat out thauma on most builds because it doesn't affect the direct damage portion of an ability, but rather just the DOT.
Mighty's last 50 CP are still slightly more valuable, as are MaA's, but once you get to 60, they are virtually the same. So realistically you want about 60 in MaA and Mighty, about 40 in precise strikes and thauma; and about 6 in piercing for optimization without ever over-penetrating in a raid environment.
Once this is achieved, you will be getting a better return from heavy weapons expert. if you put those final 15 into it and MaA, however, you unlock the light attack 5% bonus execute damage though, as well, which is basically a free 1.25% damage increase to your light attacks, meaning you only need about a 6% increase from physical weapons expert for you to hit the 1% increase to damage done. At 9 CP in PWE, you achieve a 6% increase to light attacks, making it the best investment.
KingYogi415 wrote: »Watch him post like a 18k parse then still try to tell you how to play...
Lol at people these days!
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
I tested it before Horns of the Reach, and it definitely only was buffed by Master at arms and Mighty. As I posted, its incredibly counter-intuitive, but unless that champion point was changed for HotR and I missed it in the patch notes, it gets nothing from Thauma.2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
If you had 66 CP in MaA, you might use it more...3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
I'm only passing on what I've found from personal experimentation on my own stam warden.
If you are heavy attacking every 3-4 seconds on average, and light attacking weaving 2-3 times between heavy attacks, then it's definitely more efficient than investing in thaumaturge to boost just your poison injection, trap beast, and (maybe) caltrops. A 10% increase to LA/HA will usually add 0.6%-0.8% total DPS to your rotation. That's more than you will get from other champion point possibilities at a certain point.5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
I don't disagree on this one, but if you are optimizing for trials in an environment where all the physical resistance debuffs are up, then you'll only really need about 600 penetration to fully penetrate, so anymore than 6 CP in piercing will be overkill, and with over 50 points in mighty and MaA, the next best booster for damage will be precise strikes. It affects all of your skills and assuming you aren't using the shadow, crit damage bonuses are stronger when you have less of it and lots of crit chance. This amount of CP would put your modfier a little under 1.7x without trap beast, which at 100% crit chance would be equivalent to a roughly 13.3% increase to damage done; more than you are getting from the same amount in mighty. With trap beast up it's slightly less compared to mighty, but essentially the two are equally beneficial for non-stamblades and non-stamplars.6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
I'm at work, so it would be difficult, but I'm ultimately working towards that. I built my Warden on my girlfriend's account and she had yet to reach level 50 on either of her toons, so I've only gotten to CP 240 on this account as of yesterday after starting this character maybe 7 weeks ago at level 1 She has just leveled her first character to max level on my account which is currently at CP 632. In other words, my build still needs optimization, but what I can do is post a video showing my unbuffed tooltips as I increase CP in Thauma, Mighty, and MaA in increments of 3%.
1. Just tested it....definitely scales with thaum as it always did...
2. I dont use it because i dont think its a DPS gain...as you mentioned above making sure that Subterranian Assualt is always up is key and you cant keep it up without heavy attacking 4 times...
3. It does not...these things are not estimated or guessed man, they are mathematically calculated by an addon...
4. Total penetration necesary - 18100
Sunderflame - 3340
Major Fracture - 5280
Minor Fracture (80% uptime) - 1056
Nightmothers - 2580
Infused Crusher (75%) - 1581
Alkosh (80%) - 2408
Total pen - 16245
Difference - 1855
In my group we dont have a stamplar so our pen is short by 3k on easy trials...on harder trials sunderflame, infused crusher are a lot lower than 100%, so we are around 4k short...hence why CP is necessary...so not sure what you mean...
5. I can tell you that in my opinion the skill, set and CP distribution is the best possible one, calculated and tested meticulously. But you are welcome to prove me wrong by posting a parse:)
Torug's Infused crusher?
If thauma is moving it now, it wasn't before. I'll test it when I get home. Either way, it's still going to boost your DPS, at worst, on an even level with thauma.
I personally put a lot more in penetration, but since you were optimizing your build for full penetration scenarios, that's why I went with lower CP in piercing.
Also, I'm not guessing. I've already tested this mathematically and in the game, AND SO HAVE YOU. Look at the fight recap on your video. 14% of your damage came from light attacks and heavy attacks. light and heavy attacks make up between 5%-15% of damage for most DPS builds. That's 0.5%-1.5% more damage done with a 10% increase. It's basic arithmetic, and you're build would be on the high side of that DPS increase range. All you'd need to increase your total DPS by 1% is a 7% increase from CP to LA/HA.
Our tanks dont use torugs. Thaum was always moving it...as for CP I said this above, I guess yoi didnt underatand, I have an addon that calculates the CP...its better than what you or I could do by hand....to clarify why heavy weapons is garbage you have to understand that weapon attacks only buffs you weapon attacks. On the other hand mighty, precise strikes and penetration buff all of your damage. Thaum buffs all of your DoTs which is quite a bit of your damage and Master at Arms buffs all of your direct damage including your heavy attacks...meaning each star buffs multiple sources of damage, while heavy weapons buff a single source. The addon uses an algorithm to plot the best fit CP distribution.
Again parses plz...
You're wrong about thauma. I'm on XBOX and tested it yesterday. Endless Hail got nothing from it. I will look into how it is working now after work.
I'm only trying to give you some advice to improve your build, man. I think you've done really well with it, but we all should be receptive to constructive feedback because the goal is getting better.
Here's why I disagree on PWE. 10% of 14% is 1.4%, so when you reach the point where it costs less to increase heavy and light attacks by 10% than it does to increase your damage done by 1.4% in some other way, physical weapons expert becomes the best CP option, regardless of what your add-on says.
With 50 CP in mighty, you only have a total potential gain of 3.75% left to upgrade.
In thauma and MaA, you have 6.25% more that can be gained after you've placed 50 CP in them, but they affect only some skills or a part of some skills. As you pointed out thauma gets nothing from LA/HA, but MaA does help. You're most heavily used skills will typically benefit most from MaA as well, and most of your DOTs will get slightly buffed by it on the initial hit.
Precise strikes gets the sharpest diminishing returns as even with 100% crit chance, it only gets you an increase of 3.7% damage done with the final 50 CP. Realistically, it's more like 2%-3% (for those in the 53%-80% weapons critical range), and the number is less for nightblades, templars, and anybody who uses Trap Beast (which is everyone).
The first 50 CP in Physical weapons expert for your build would increase your total damage done by more than the last 50 CP in precise strikes for any stam build. It also should beat out thauma on most builds because it doesn't affect the direct damage portion of an ability, but rather just the DOT.
Mighty's last 50 CP are still slightly more valuable, as are MaA's, but once you get to 60, they are virtually the same. So realistically you want about 60 in MaA and Mighty, about 40 in precise strikes and thauma; and about 6 in piercing for optimization without ever over-penetrating in a raid environment.
Once this is achieved, you will be getting a better return from heavy weapons expert. if you put those final 15 into it and MaA, however, you unlock the light attack 5% bonus execute damage though, as well, which is basically a free 1.25% damage increase to your light attacks, meaning you only need about a 6% increase from physical weapons expert for you to hit the 1% increase to damage done. At 9 CP in PWE, you achieve a 6% increase to light attacks, making it the best investment.
As soon as you said that you are on xbox you were done...and not because I think that PC players are better...because you dont have any tools that helps you understand damage and therefore proper CP distribution..
As far as giving me a way to improve my build, you should start by showing me proof that your opinion is worthy of consideration. I have played the game since beta, and have a buid for every class with competitive parses. If you would like me to listen to you please post any evidence of the fact that you know what you are talking about. This may be coming off as insulting but Im honestly not trying to do that...if you post a 40k parse on a 6 mil skeleton I promise Ill try any suggestions you make...until that happens I will assume that you have no idea what you are talking about. As far as Cp suggestions...yet again for the 5th time now...I have a computer algorithm that calculates the optimal CP...im not sure how to explain to you that a computer is better than you at calculating things...
Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »1. Endless hail is not bufded by MaA, its buffes by Thaum.
I tested it before Horns of the Reach, and it definitely only was buffed by Master at arms and Mighty. As I posted, its incredibly counter-intuitive, but unless that champion point was changed for HotR and I missed it in the patch notes, it gets nothing from Thauma.2. I dint use Dive except as a filler skill, its not even in my rotation...simoly there if I need to hit something from range.
If you had 66 CP in MaA, you might use it more...3. I dont guess my CP distributions, I use Combat Metrics and Constellations addons which allow me calculate the best distribution based on my rotation and gear.
4. Points in heavy attacks are not an efficient way to distribute CP.
I'm only passing on what I've found from personal experimentation on my own stam warden.
If you are heavy attacking every 3-4 seconds on average, and light attacking weaving 2-3 times between heavy attacks, then it's definitely more efficient than investing in thaumaturge to boost just your poison injection, trap beast, and (maybe) caltrops. A 10% increase to LA/HA will usually add 0.6%-0.8% total DPS to your rotation. That's more than you will get from other champion point possibilities at a certain point.5. Lots of points into Precise strikes is a waste. With a nerf to thief and shadow, our crit is lower and we therefore benefit less from boost in crit damage versus other damage bonuses.
I don't disagree on this one, but if you are optimizing for trials in an environment where all the physical resistance debuffs are up, then you'll only really need about 600 penetration to fully penetrate, so anymore than 6 CP in piercing will be overkill, and with over 50 points in mighty and MaA, the next best booster for damage will be precise strikes. It affects all of your skills and assuming you aren't using the shadow, crit damage bonuses are stronger when you have less of it and lots of crit chance. This amount of CP would put your modfier a little under 1.7x without trap beast, which at 100% crit chance would be equivalent to a roughly 13.3% increase to damage done; more than you are getting from the same amount in mighty. With trap beast up it's slightly less compared to mighty, but essentially the two are equally beneficial for non-stamblades and non-stamplars.6. Subterranian with my rotation is cast almost on cooldown, so Im not sure what you mean.
Can you please post a parae on your warden so that I can see what numbers your ideas are getting?
I'm at work, so it would be difficult, but I'm ultimately working towards that. I built my Warden on my girlfriend's account and she had yet to reach level 50 on either of her toons, so I've only gotten to CP 240 on this account as of yesterday after starting this character maybe 7 weeks ago at level 1 She has just leveled her first character to max level on my account which is currently at CP 632. In other words, my build still needs optimization, but what I can do is post a video showing my unbuffed tooltips as I increase CP in Thauma, Mighty, and MaA in increments of 3%.
1. Just tested it....definitely scales with thaum as it always did...
2. I dont use it because i dont think its a DPS gain...as you mentioned above making sure that Subterranian Assualt is always up is key and you cant keep it up without heavy attacking 4 times...
3. It does not...these things are not estimated or guessed man, they are mathematically calculated by an addon...
4. Total penetration necesary - 18100
Sunderflame - 3340
Major Fracture - 5280
Minor Fracture (80% uptime) - 1056
Nightmothers - 2580
Infused Crusher (75%) - 1581
Alkosh (80%) - 2408
Total pen - 16245
Difference - 1855
In my group we dont have a stamplar so our pen is short by 3k on easy trials...on harder trials sunderflame, infused crusher are a lot lower than 100%, so we are around 4k short...hence why CP is necessary...so not sure what you mean...
5. I can tell you that in my opinion the skill, set and CP distribution is the best possible one, calculated and tested meticulously. But you are welcome to prove me wrong by posting a parse:)
Torug's Infused crusher?
If thauma is moving it now, it wasn't before. I'll test it when I get home. Either way, it's still going to boost your DPS, at worst, on an even level with thauma.
I personally put a lot more in penetration, but since you were optimizing your build for full penetration scenarios, that's why I went with lower CP in piercing.
Also, I'm not guessing. I've already tested this mathematically and in the game, AND SO HAVE YOU. Look at the fight recap on your video. 14% of your damage came from light attacks and heavy attacks. light and heavy attacks make up between 5%-15% of damage for most DPS builds. That's 0.5%-1.5% more damage done with a 10% increase. It's basic arithmetic, and you're build would be on the high side of that DPS increase range. All you'd need to increase your total DPS by 1% is a 7% increase from CP to LA/HA.
Our tanks dont use torugs. Thaum was always moving it...as for CP I said this above, I guess yoi didnt underatand, I have an addon that calculates the CP...its better than what you or I could do by hand....to clarify why heavy weapons is garbage you have to understand that weapon attacks only buffs you weapon attacks. On the other hand mighty, precise strikes and penetration buff all of your damage. Thaum buffs all of your DoTs which is quite a bit of your damage and Master at Arms buffs all of your direct damage including your heavy attacks...meaning each star buffs multiple sources of damage, while heavy weapons buff a single source. The addon uses an algorithm to plot the best fit CP distribution.
Again parses plz...
You're wrong about thauma. I'm on XBOX and tested it yesterday. Endless Hail got nothing from it. I will look into how it is working now after work.
I'm only trying to give you some advice to improve your build, man. I think you've done really well with it, but we all should be receptive to constructive feedback because the goal is getting better.
Here's why I disagree on PWE. 10% of 14% is 1.4%, so when you reach the point where it costs less to increase heavy and light attacks by 10% than it does to increase your damage done by 1.4% in some other way, physical weapons expert becomes the best CP option, regardless of what your add-on says.
With 50 CP in mighty, you only have a total potential gain of 3.75% left to upgrade.
In thauma and MaA, you have 6.25% more that can be gained after you've placed 50 CP in them, but they affect only some skills or a part of some skills. As you pointed out thauma gets nothing from LA/HA, but MaA does help. You're most heavily used skills will typically benefit most from MaA as well, and most of your DOTs will get slightly buffed by it on the initial hit.
Precise strikes gets the sharpest diminishing returns as even with 100% crit chance, it only gets you an increase of 3.7% damage done with the final 50 CP. Realistically, it's more like 2%-3% (for those in the 53%-80% weapons critical range), and the number is less for nightblades, templars, and anybody who uses Trap Beast (which is everyone).
The first 50 CP in Physical weapons expert for your build would increase your total damage done by more than the last 50 CP in precise strikes for any stam build. It also should beat out thauma on most builds because it doesn't affect the direct damage portion of an ability, but rather just the DOT.
Mighty's last 50 CP are still slightly more valuable, as are MaA's, but once you get to 60, they are virtually the same. So realistically you want about 60 in MaA and Mighty, about 40 in precise strikes and thauma; and about 6 in piercing for optimization without ever over-penetrating in a raid environment.
Once this is achieved, you will be getting a better return from heavy weapons expert. if you put those final 15 into it and MaA, however, you unlock the light attack 5% bonus execute damage though, as well, which is basically a free 1.25% damage increase to your light attacks, meaning you only need about a 6% increase from physical weapons expert for you to hit the 1% increase to damage done. At 9 CP in PWE, you achieve a 6% increase to light attacks, making it the best investment.
As soon as you said that you are on xbox you were done...and not because I think that PC players are better...because you dont have any tools that helps you understand damage and therefore proper CP distribution..
As far as giving me a way to improve my build, you should start by showing me proof that your opinion is worthy of consideration. I have played the game since beta, and have a buid for every class with competitive parses. If you would like me to listen to you please post any evidence of the fact that you know what you are talking about. This may be coming off as insulting but Im honestly not trying to do that...if you post a 40k parse on a 6 mil skeleton I promise Ill try any suggestions you make...until that happens I will assume that you have no idea what you are talking about. As far as Cp suggestions...yet again for the 5th time now...I have a computer algorithm that calculates the optimal CP...im not sure how to explain to you that a computer is better than you at calculating things...
I don't have any tools... but you do, and based on your own tools which show that you deal 14% of your damage from LA/HA, you're CP optimizer is incorrect. I have max level characters of every class except Templar and have been playing since console release. I only have the 55 million HP dummy, but I'll see what I can do DPS wise at 240 CP with my 30K+ crit subterranean assault, and post a clip with it as well as the tooltip effects of Warden skills based on different CP distributions.