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Stamina Warden not viable, in large part due to "Thaumaturge" and Bull netch being awful
Azikiel
✭✭✭
Simply put, one of stamina wardens biggest draws is the easy weaving potential of Subt. assault. However, this ability is direct damage, and almost no other direct damage abilities are viable so a master-at-arms build isn't really possible. So basically warden's best drawing ability is useless in the current state of the game because of thaumaturge making it do less damage then everyone else. Also, Bull is absolutely digustingly awful, especially in comparison to the DK's alternatives and rally.
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Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭AgreedPC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~0 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Except for Night Blades all stam classes are feeling it atm... Stam DKs are actually hurting bad in open field play atm... but you can make them work..PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables2 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Simply put, one of stamina wardens biggest draws is the easy weaving potential of Subt. assault. However, this ability is direct damage, and almost no other direct damage abilities are viable so a master-at-arms build isn't really possible. So basically warden's best drawing ability is useless in the current state of the game because of thaumaturge making it do less damage then everyone else. Also, Bull is absolutely digustingly awful, especially in comparison to the DK's alternatives and rally.
Im assuming this is a PvP only statement?0 -
Azikiel✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Simply put, one of stamina wardens biggest draws is the easy weaving potential of Subt. assault. However, this ability is direct damage, and almost no other direct damage abilities are viable so a master-at-arms build isn't really possible. So basically warden's best drawing ability is useless in the current state of the game because of thaumaturge making it do less damage then everyone else. Also, Bull is absolutely digustingly awful, especially in comparison to the DK's alternatives and rally.
Im assuming this is a PvP only statement?
No, this is more PvE related, I mean it's about DPS numbers... Why?0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx6 -
Azikiel✭✭✭Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.
The strongest builds right now for stamina are stam dks who use ONLY dots. All those direct damage abilties are sub-optimal. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are strong/balanced.Edited by Azikiel on July 26, 2017 10:23PM0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.
The strongest builds right now for stamina are stam dks who use ONLY dots. All those direct damage abilties are sub-optimal. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are strong/balanced.
Pretty sure the only reason Stam DKs are so powerful is because they can get the most out of VMA weapons, you take away those weapons and you'd be able to out dps them on any of the other classes if you invested the time.
Not strong/balanced? Do you have any idea how much damage sub terrian + executioner does once you've got the target into execution range? Executioner is a 40k spammable and you're saying it's not strong? The reason DOTs seem so much more powerful is because a dot heavy rotation is more forgiving, you miss something or stuff it up you still have damage being done. Practice and patience will allow you to start removing dots and replacing them with burst damage that will increase your total dps. It's practice, not CP or a different class that makes someone goodNA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx3 -
Haquor✭✭✭✭✭Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills.
You use bow and dw (you use hail and rend) so you know that people dont want to spam wrecking blow and to have best dps you need thaum stacked if running dw and bow.
Sub assault is a cool skill and i guess at the moment there is just that compromise needed between buffing some significant damage contributors for stam classes (ie weapon skills from dw and bow) and buffing the one class damage skill available to warden worth throwing out.
Edited by Haquor on July 27, 2017 2:21AM0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills.
You use bow and dw (you use hail and rend) so you know that people dont want to spam wrecking blow and to have best dps you need thaum stacked if running dw and bow.
Sub assault is a cool skill and i guess at the moment there is just that compromise needed between buffing some significant damage contributors for stam classes (ie weapon skills from dw and bow) and buffing the one class damage skill available to warden worth throwing out.
Depends on the situation, for the most part I'm running duel wield for tornado potato but I use outfitter to switch to 2 hander for single target boss fights (trials, 4 man dungeon I'll just stay on dw as everything dies fast enough). With 2H equipped dive is my spamable until around 30%ish, then I'll stop using dive and start executioner. With subterranean I apply it every 2nd dot, so for instance I'll go subterranean > trap > subterranean > hail > subterranean > injection. I'm not the smoothest with my rotation so sometimes I'll skip a subterranean in order to get my trap back down or to reapply lotus/netch when I'm on my back bar.
Obviously this would be a lot harder on console without addons to have a 1 key option for rapidly changing gear and skills.
I don't think I even have wrecking blow unlocked, was just using it as an example to state there's more than just one skill that gets buffed by Master of arms. I think if you look at any build, because of diminishing returns, you would be better off having some points in master of arms regardless of the amount of dots you are applying because the final 1% isn't worth it. Depending on the rotation will determine whether its some or a lot, have to remember a lot of dots have a portion of their total damage that is considered direct damage.
Regardless of whether I use 2h or DW when I look over my combat metrics my % of direct damage to Dots is close enough to optimize my champion points based on the forementioned cp calculator. On average over the course of a proper fight (3m skeleton) my direct damage is between 42 - 44% of total damage based on my combat metric results.NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx0 -
Azikiel✭✭✭Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills.
You use bow and dw (you use hail and rend) so you know that people dont want to spam wrecking blow and to have best dps you need thaum stacked if running dw and bow.
Sub assault is a cool skill and i guess at the moment there is just that compromise needed between buffing some significant damage contributors for stam classes (ie weapon skills from dw and bow) and buffing the one class damage skill available to warden worth throwing out.
Depends on the situation, for the most part I'm running duel wield for tornado potato but I use outfitter to switch to 2 hander for single target boss fights (trials, 4 man dungeon I'll just stay on dw as everything dies fast enough). With 2H equipped dive is my spamable until around 30%ish, then I'll stop using dive and start executioner. With subterranean I apply it every 2nd dot, so for instance I'll go subterranean > trap > subterranean > hail > subterranean > injection. I'm not the smoothest with my rotation so sometimes I'll skip a subterranean in order to get my trap back down or to reapply lotus/netch when I'm on my back bar.
Obviously this would be a lot harder on console without addons to have a 1 key option for rapidly changing gear and skills.
I don't think I even have wrecking blow unlocked, was just using it as an example to state there's more than just one skill that gets buffed by Master of arms. I think if you look at any build, because of diminishing returns, you would be better off having some points in master of arms regardless of the amount of dots you are applying because the final 1% isn't worth it. Depending on the rotation will determine whether its some or a lot, have to remember a lot of dots have a portion of their total damage that is considered direct damage.
Regardless of whether I use 2h or DW when I look over my combat metrics my % of direct damage to Dots is close enough to optimize my champion points based on the forementioned cp calculator. On average over the course of a proper fight (3m skeleton) my direct damage is between 42 - 44% of total damage based on my combat metric results.
None of the top builds use wrecking blow, they all use just tons of dots. DoTs are the only thing worth while because of this games skill system making thaumaturge>master-at-arms. I suppose that isn't even what bothers me, its that there is no direct damage builds that are viable. I find that more stupid than anything else.0 -
Bazfaps✭Seen a few stamden dummy parses pushing 40k solo on a dummy which is on par with just about everyone elses stam dummy parses.
Havent run mine in trials but in vet dungeons its been alot of fun and feels on par with my stam dk and stam sorc but i do play them all similar with a heavy attack buildEdited by Bazfaps on July 27, 2017 3:23AM0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭By direct damage builds do you mean 100% direct damage? What percentage of damage needs to be direct before it's considered a direct damage? On my warden less than half of my damage comes from dots with direct damage abilities and light attacks making up the majority of damage
It's not like there are any DOT builds doing 100% dot damage as the absolute majority of dots start with direct damage before applying their damage over time.NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx0 -
Azikiel✭✭✭By direct damage builds do you mean 100% direct damage? What percentage of damage needs to be direct before it's considered a direct damage? On my warden less than half of my damage comes from dots with direct damage abilities and light attacks making up the majority of damage
It's not like there are any DOT builds doing 100% dot damage as the absolute majority of dots start with direct damage before applying their damage over time.
What direct damage abilities do you use besides subt. assault? Do you not believe you would get more dps by replacing them with additional DoTs?0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭By direct damage builds do you mean 100% direct damage? What percentage of damage needs to be direct before it's considered a direct damage? On my warden less than half of my damage comes from dots with direct damage abilities and light attacks making up the majority of damage
It's not like there are any DOT builds doing 100% dot damage as the absolute majority of dots start with direct damage before applying their damage over time.
What direct damage abilities do you use besides subt. assault? Do you not believe you would get more dps by replacing them with additional DoTs?
I weave cutting dive between applying my dots, self buffed on skeleton it hits for 20k. The only dot I have available to replace it is caltrops and I can't imagine that doing more damage. When I have 2 hander equipped I use executioner which can hit for over 40K during execution phase, again don't see any dots being able to out dps it. So on my build my sources of direct damage are cutting dive, sub assault, first hit of rearming trap, inital hit of poison injection and first hit of craze or executioner depending on which setup I have on. Hail and tornado are the only abilities that are pure dots.NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx0 -
Spliffo✭✭✭✭Sorry but NBs have to deal with this as well and do fine why can't warden? Also who uses rally in pve?0
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Actually it is exactly opposite. Wardens have advantage of sub assault being direct. Investing in both master at arms and thaum gets you more damage for less CP.
The true disadvantage is that cliff racer is not used as spammable (which would get booster by direct damage CP too)1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Simply put, one of stamina wardens biggest draws is the easy weaving potential of Subt. assault. However, this ability is direct damage, and almost no other direct damage abilities are viable so a master-at-arms build isn't really possible. So basically warden's best drawing ability is useless in the current state of the game because of thaumaturge making it do less damage then everyone else. Also, Bull is absolutely digustingly awful, especially in comparison to the DK's alternatives and rally.
Im assuming this is a PvP only statement?
No, this is more PvE related, I mean it's about DPS numbers... Why?
In PvE they do great damage and have great sustain.Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.
The strongest builds right now for stamina are stam dks who use ONLY dots. All those direct damage abilties are sub-optimal. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are strong/balanced.
Pretty sure the only reason Stam DKs are so powerful is because they can get the most out of VMA weapons, you take away those weapons and you'd be able to out dps them on any of the other classes if you invested the time.
Not strong/balanced? Do you have any idea how much damage sub terrian + executioner does once you've got the target into execution range? Executioner is a 40k spammable and you're saying it's not strong? The reason DOTs seem so much more powerful is because a dot heavy rotation is more forgiving, you miss something or stuff it up you still have damage being done. Practice and patience will allow you to start removing dots and replacing them with burst damage that will increase your total dps. It's practice, not CP or a different class that makes someone good
StamDKs do not use vMA weapons...or I should say good StamDks dont.3 -
ezeepeezee✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Simply put, one of stamina wardens biggest draws is the easy weaving potential of Subt. assault. However, this ability is direct damage, and almost no other direct damage abilities are viable so a master-at-arms build isn't really possible. So basically warden's best drawing ability is useless in the current state of the game because of thaumaturge making it do less damage then everyone else. Also, Bull is absolutely digustingly awful, especially in comparison to the DK's alternatives and rally.
Im assuming this is a PvP only statement?
No, this is more PvE related, I mean it's about DPS numbers... Why?
In PvE they do great damage and have great sustain.Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.
The strongest builds right now for stamina are stam dks who use ONLY dots. All those direct damage abilties are sub-optimal. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are strong/balanced.
Pretty sure the only reason Stam DKs are so powerful is because they can get the most out of VMA weapons, you take away those weapons and you'd be able to out dps them on any of the other classes if you invested the time.
Not strong/balanced? Do you have any idea how much damage sub terrian + executioner does once you've got the target into execution range? Executioner is a 40k spammable and you're saying it's not strong? The reason DOTs seem so much more powerful is because a dot heavy rotation is more forgiving, you miss something or stuff it up you still have damage being done. Practice and patience will allow you to start removing dots and replacing them with burst damage that will increase your total dps. It's practice, not CP or a different class that makes someone good
StamDKs do not use vMA weapons...or I should say good StamDks dont.
Your Stam DK guide literally says to use a sharp vMA bow.1 -
Gan Xing✭✭✭✭I tried a bleed stam warden build in PTS... It's really unnecessarily strong. I was able to take down my friend who was a 40k health DK tank with a super simple rotation. That said, I was utilizing Thaumaterge and the heals from the rending slashes. It really depends on your playstyle.
One thing that people repeat is practice. Get used to your rotation, get comfortable with your skills. If you are struggling defensively, build a bit more towards that, or perhaps you aren't meant to be defensive, and become a glass cannon. I've been playing since beta in this game and I'm still figuring out my playstyle and what works for me.Gan Xing - Crafting Nightblade
Elrana Tinuviel - Hybrid Dragonknight
Elentári Peregrine - Sorcerer "bank"
Rán Xīng - Hybrid Templar
Laurïsil Imlachwen - Stamina Templar
Helotë Tinuviel - Hybrid/Magicka Warden
Odin banker - obv banker
Yan of the Red Mountain - lvl 3 DK - not sure when I will work on em
Seeks the unusual and unique playstyles...0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭ezeepeezee wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Simply put, one of stamina wardens biggest draws is the easy weaving potential of Subt. assault. However, this ability is direct damage, and almost no other direct damage abilities are viable so a master-at-arms build isn't really possible. So basically warden's best drawing ability is useless in the current state of the game because of thaumaturge making it do less damage then everyone else. Also, Bull is absolutely digustingly awful, especially in comparison to the DK's alternatives and rally.
Im assuming this is a PvP only statement?
No, this is more PvE related, I mean it's about DPS numbers... Why?
In PvE they do great damage and have great sustain.Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.
The strongest builds right now for stamina are stam dks who use ONLY dots. All those direct damage abilties are sub-optimal. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are strong/balanced.
Pretty sure the only reason Stam DKs are so powerful is because they can get the most out of VMA weapons, you take away those weapons and you'd be able to out dps them on any of the other classes if you invested the time.
Not strong/balanced? Do you have any idea how much damage sub terrian + executioner does once you've got the target into execution range? Executioner is a 40k spammable and you're saying it's not strong? The reason DOTs seem so much more powerful is because a dot heavy rotation is more forgiving, you miss something or stuff it up you still have damage being done. Practice and patience will allow you to start removing dots and replacing them with burst damage that will increase your total dps. It's practice, not CP or a different class that makes someone good
StamDKs do not use vMA weapons...or I should say good StamDks dont.
Your Stam DK guide literally says to use a sharp vMA bow.
They are talking about DW. VMA bow back bar is a given.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..2 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ezeepeezee wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Simply put, one of stamina wardens biggest draws is the easy weaving potential of Subt. assault. However, this ability is direct damage, and almost no other direct damage abilities are viable so a master-at-arms build isn't really possible. So basically warden's best drawing ability is useless in the current state of the game because of thaumaturge making it do less damage then everyone else. Also, Bull is absolutely digustingly awful, especially in comparison to the DK's alternatives and rally.
Im assuming this is a PvP only statement?
No, this is more PvE related, I mean it's about DPS numbers... Why?
In PvE they do great damage and have great sustain.Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.
The strongest builds right now for stamina are stam dks who use ONLY dots. All those direct damage abilties are sub-optimal. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are strong/balanced.
Pretty sure the only reason Stam DKs are so powerful is because they can get the most out of VMA weapons, you take away those weapons and you'd be able to out dps them on any of the other classes if you invested the time.
Not strong/balanced? Do you have any idea how much damage sub terrian + executioner does once you've got the target into execution range? Executioner is a 40k spammable and you're saying it's not strong? The reason DOTs seem so much more powerful is because a dot heavy rotation is more forgiving, you miss something or stuff it up you still have damage being done. Practice and patience will allow you to start removing dots and replacing them with burst damage that will increase your total dps. It's practice, not CP or a different class that makes someone good
StamDKs do not use vMA weapons...or I should say good StamDks dont.
Your Stam DK guide literally says to use a sharp vMA bow.
Usually when people mention vMA weapons they imply front bar weapon. I can guarantee you that if I put a vDSA bow on my back bar it wont change the fact that StamDk does more damage than any other class. You claim that without vMA weapons the class is no different from others, that statement is false.1 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cliff Racer draws from Master of arms, the initial hits of poison arrow and blood craze are direct damage. Snipe is direct damage. Executioner and Wrecking blow are direct damage. Beserker.
The only dot's I'm dropping on my StamWarden are Hail, trap, rend and the secondary effects from some skills. My stamwarden has become my main now as it is out DPSing my Stamsorc.
If you haven't reached CP cap then you'll have issues, but those issues will exist for all your characters. Apart from that, you just need to fine tune your skills and gear as these guys really are lethal and easily have their CP optimized for your rotations.
The strongest builds right now for stamina are stam dks who use ONLY dots. All those direct damage abilties are sub-optimal. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are strong/balanced.
Pretty sure the only reason Stam DKs are so powerful is because they can get the most out of VMA weapons, you take away those weapons and you'd be able to out dps them on any of the other classes if you invested the time.
Not strong/balanced? Do you have any idea how much damage sub terrian + executioner does once you've got the target into execution range? Executioner is a 40k spammable and you're saying it's not strong? The reason DOTs seem so much more powerful is because a dot heavy rotation is more forgiving, you miss something or stuff it up you still have damage being done. Practice and patience will allow you to start removing dots and replacing them with burst damage that will increase your total dps. It's practice, not CP or a different class that makes someone good
would luv to see a full documented build
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Azikiel✭✭✭Sorry but NBs have to deal with this as well and do fine why can't warden? Also who uses rally in pve?Actually it is exactly opposite. Wardens have advantage of sub assault being direct. Investing in both master at arms and thaum gets you more damage for less CP.
The true disadvantage is that cliff racer is not used as spammable (which would get booster by direct damage CP too)
I... I can't even... If its damage was changed to DoT and you took your points out of master-at-arms and put them into thaumaturge the damage of both subt. assault and all your other abilities would go up. That's not an advantage unless you're literally incapable of basic logic.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
None of your abilities scale specifically well with warden it would literally be a free dps boost to switch to templar, sorc, or nb, maybe not dk if you don't change abilities. Way to prove my point.
You all suck at math and your response of "practice" doesn't mean anything. This is a video game that's extremely easy to play rotationally. Mathematically Stam Warden doesn't make sense. Stop trying to argue back with "I feel that" and tell me a number that is higher on a stam warden than on another character and how you think that makes stam warden the stronger class between those two.Edited by Azikiel on August 1, 2017 11:05PM0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorry but NBs have to deal with this as well and do fine why can't warden? Also who uses rally in pve?Actually it is exactly opposite. Wardens have advantage of sub assault being direct. Investing in both master at arms and thaum gets you more damage for less CP.
The true disadvantage is that cliff racer is not used as spammable (which would get booster by direct damage CP too)
I... I can't even... If its damage was changed to DoT and you took your points out of master-at-arms and put them into thaumaturge the damage of both subt. assault and all your other abilities would go up. That's not an advantage unless you're literally incapable of basic logic.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
None of your abilities scale specifically well with warden it would literally be a free dps boost to switch to templar, sorc, or nb, maybe not dk if you don't change abilities. Way to prove my point.
You all suck at math and your response of "practice" doesn't mean anything. This is a video game that's extremely easy to play rotationally. Mathematically Stam Warden doesn't make sense. Stop trying to argue back with "I feel that" and tell me a number that is higher on a stam warden than on another character and how you think that makes stam warden the stronger class between those two.
Do you even understand how CP works? If you take points worth 10% from master at arms and put them to thaumaturge where you already had points for 20% you dont get 30%, you get far less (maybe 2%).
Dont bring the logic route argument with me, your 'logic' fails flat already on the complaint alone, because nearly all classes have direct damage attacks in their rotation and IT WORKS JUST FINE for them.
For someone complaing other suck at math, you surely do not make impression of someone that carefully uses math to get results without jumping to conclusion
'Mathematically' the best way to earn the most damage from CP is to have 50/50 split on Dot vs direct damage. Obviously does not mean it is good to use bad skills to get to this ratio, but getting good skills (like sub assault) that brings you closer to it is better than have full DoT build.Edited by SodanTok on August 1, 2017 11:30PM1 -
Azikiel✭✭✭Sorry but NBs have to deal with this as well and do fine why can't warden? Also who uses rally in pve?Actually it is exactly opposite. Wardens have advantage of sub assault being direct. Investing in both master at arms and thaum gets you more damage for less CP.
The true disadvantage is that cliff racer is not used as spammable (which would get booster by direct damage CP too)
I... I can't even... If its damage was changed to DoT and you took your points out of master-at-arms and put them into thaumaturge the damage of both subt. assault and all your other abilities would go up. That's not an advantage unless you're literally incapable of basic logic.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
None of your abilities scale specifically well with warden it would literally be a free dps boost to switch to templar, sorc, or nb, maybe not dk if you don't change abilities. Way to prove my point.
You all suck at math and your response of "practice" doesn't mean anything. This is a video game that's extremely easy to play rotationally. Mathematically Stam Warden doesn't make sense. Stop trying to argue back with "I feel that" and tell me a number that is higher on a stam warden than on another character and how you think that makes stam warden the stronger class between those two.
Do you even understand how CP works? If you take points worth 10% from master at arms and put them to thaumaturge where you already had points for 20% you dont get 30%, you get far less (maybe 2%).
Dont bring the logic route argument with me, your 'logic' fails flat already on the complaint alone, because nearly all classes have direct damage attacks in their rotation and IT WORKS JUST FINE for them.
For someone complaing other suck at math, you surely do not make impression of someone that carefully uses math to get results without jumping to conclusion
'Mathematically' the best way to earn the most damage from CP is to have 50/50 split on Dot vs direct damage. Obviously does not mean it is good to use bad skills to get to this ratio, but getting good skills (like sub assault) that brings you closer to it is better than have full DoT build.
No if my rotation is two abilities, one that does 100 direct damage and and one that does 100 dot damage and my rotation is to go back and forth between these two abilities. then let say i get 20% master at arms and 20% thaumaturge, my damage per hit is 120. Now if they both do DoT damage and so I put all my cp into thaumaturge and get 25% increased DoT damage then each hit does 125. That is just rediculously obvious. This is 1st grade level math m8.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry but NBs have to deal with this as well and do fine why can't warden? Also who uses rally in pve?Actually it is exactly opposite. Wardens have advantage of sub assault being direct. Investing in both master at arms and thaum gets you more damage for less CP.
The true disadvantage is that cliff racer is not used as spammable (which would get booster by direct damage CP too)
I... I can't even... If its damage was changed to DoT and you took your points out of master-at-arms and put them into thaumaturge the damage of both subt. assault and all your other abilities would go up. That's not an advantage unless you're literally incapable of basic logic.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
None of your abilities scale specifically well with warden it would literally be a free dps boost to switch to templar, sorc, or nb, maybe not dk if you don't change abilities. Way to prove my point.
You all suck at math and your response of "practice" doesn't mean anything. This is a video game that's extremely easy to play rotationally. Mathematically Stam Warden doesn't make sense. Stop trying to argue back with "I feel that" and tell me a number that is higher on a stam warden than on another character and how you think that makes stam warden the stronger class between those two.
You dont know what you're talking about...but its ok you are not alone;) StamWarden would be on par with the other classes to bring and better in some cases. While all stam benefits from penetration sets like sunder and NMG, only warsens and DKs reap the most benefit feom Morag Tong.
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry but NBs have to deal with this as well and do fine why can't warden? Also who uses rally in pve?Actually it is exactly opposite. Wardens have advantage of sub assault being direct. Investing in both master at arms and thaum gets you more damage for less CP.
The true disadvantage is that cliff racer is not used as spammable (which would get booster by direct damage CP too)
I... I can't even... If its damage was changed to DoT and you took your points out of master-at-arms and put them into thaumaturge the damage of both subt. assault and all your other abilities would go up. That's not an advantage unless you're literally incapable of basic logic.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
None of your abilities scale specifically well with warden it would literally be a free dps boost to switch to templar, sorc, or nb, maybe not dk if you don't change abilities. Way to prove my point.
You all suck at math and your response of "practice" doesn't mean anything. This is a video game that's extremely easy to play rotationally. Mathematically Stam Warden doesn't make sense. Stop trying to argue back with "I feel that" and tell me a number that is higher on a stam warden than on another character and how you think that makes stam warden the stronger class between those two.
Do you even understand how CP works? If you take points worth 10% from master at arms and put them to thaumaturge where you already had points for 20% you dont get 30%, you get far less (maybe 2%).
Dont bring the logic route argument with me, your 'logic' fails flat already on the complaint alone, because nearly all classes have direct damage attacks in their rotation and IT WORKS JUST FINE for them.
For someone complaing other suck at math, you surely do not make impression of someone that carefully uses math to get results without jumping to conclusion
'Mathematically' the best way to earn the most damage from CP is to have 50/50 split on Dot vs direct damage. Obviously does not mean it is good to use bad skills to get to this ratio, but getting good skills (like sub assault) that brings you closer to it is better than have full DoT build.
I think you're wasting your time, the guy doesn't have any idea what he is talking about.2 -
Azikiel✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Sorry but NBs have to deal with this as well and do fine why can't warden? Also who uses rally in pve?Actually it is exactly opposite. Wardens have advantage of sub assault being direct. Investing in both master at arms and thaum gets you more damage for less CP.
The true disadvantage is that cliff racer is not used as spammable (which would get booster by direct damage CP too)
I... I can't even... If its damage was changed to DoT and you took your points out of master-at-arms and put them into thaumaturge the damage of both subt. assault and all your other abilities would go up. That's not an advantage unless you're literally incapable of basic logic.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
None of your abilities scale specifically well with warden it would literally be a free dps boost to switch to templar, sorc, or nb, maybe not dk if you don't change abilities. Way to prove my point.
You all suck at math and your response of "practice" doesn't mean anything. This is a video game that's extremely easy to play rotationally. Mathematically Stam Warden doesn't make sense. Stop trying to argue back with "I feel that" and tell me a number that is higher on a stam warden than on another character and how you think that makes stam warden the stronger class between those two.
Do you even understand how CP works? If you take points worth 10% from master at arms and put them to thaumaturge where you already had points for 20% you dont get 30%, you get far less (maybe 2%).
Dont bring the logic route argument with me, your 'logic' fails flat already on the complaint alone, because nearly all classes have direct damage attacks in their rotation and IT WORKS JUST FINE for them.
For someone complaing other suck at math, you surely do not make impression of someone that carefully uses math to get results without jumping to conclusion
'Mathematically' the best way to earn the most damage from CP is to have 50/50 split on Dot vs direct damage. Obviously does not mean it is good to use bad skills to get to this ratio, but getting good skills (like sub assault) that brings you closer to it is better than have full DoT build.
I think you're wasting your time, the guy doesn't have any idea what he is talking about.
His statement was stupid, you clearly have never taken a single math course in your life. I wish people without any education and low IQs wouldn't pretend to understand basic arithmetic when they clearly don't.0
https://youtu.be/Q8xNYf6kXT0