Stop chasing the meta, ZOS will always like nerfing your babies

PlautisCarvain · August 2017

My sets that were considered BiS get nerfed, and so other got nerfed before. I'm done with always trying to be the "meta" build.

IronCrystal · August 2017

Nothing wrong with chasing the meta if you want to play the best you can.

The meta changes like every 3-6 months which is way more than enough time to grind a set up.

Bonzodog01 · August 2017

Hopefully, in U15 though, for the first time in a long while, the "meta" will be more a matter of opinion than provable fact.

The field is going to be the flattest its been in a very long time, with not one meta, but at least 12 different meta's and each class type having an almost entirely different setup to anything near to it. Hell, the meta will change dependent on your racial choice. Racial choices will mean the least they ever have done.

You will have at least 4 viable traits on any weapon of your choice. There will be at least 3 viable mundus stones to choose from, and those three will change dependent on your class and race.

Its already been calculated by Gilliam that the widest the DPS gap is going to be from worst to best is less than 2K DPS.

For the first time, SKILL is what will determine how well you do in endgame PvE or PvP.

A purely crafted setup will have just 2% difference to a dropped raid setup - and most that could easily be made up for in skill alone.

For the first time, it might be time to stop following the theorycrafters and making up your OWN mind about what to use.

Betsararie · August 2017

Just because the meta changes, that doesn't mean there isn't a reason to follow the meta....

If you're interested in your char having the best builds, you have no choice....

Balsagna · August 2017

Okay I'll stop, because you told me to.

IronCrystal · August 2017

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Hopefully, in U15 though, for the first time in a long while, the "meta" will be more a matter of opinion than provable fact.

In PvE, there will always be a proven BiS. It is simply, the combination that has the highest output by the best players.

Bonzodog01 · August 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Hopefully, in U15 though, for the first time in a long while, the "meta" will be more a matter of opinion than provable fact.

In PvE, there will always be a proven BiS. It is simply, the combination that has the highest output by the best players.

But what happens when the difference between best and worst is like 1500 damage?

Up until now, that difference has been in 8-10K mark.

Now, the difference is negligible.

In U15, they have flattened the field so hard that even the noobiest of noobs in off-trait dropped randomised gear is only going to do 1500 DPS less than the highest ranking member on leaderboards.

This, effectively, is killing the entire race for BiS. This is ZOS's grand plan. Kill META. Kill Best in Slot. Make it a negligible goal.

IronCrystal · August 2017

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Hopefully, in U15 though, for the first time in a long while, the "meta" will be more a matter of opinion than provable fact.

In PvE, there will always be a proven BiS. It is simply, the combination that has the highest output by the best players.

But what happens when the difference between best and worst is like 1500 damage?

Up until now, that difference has been in 8-10K mark.

Now, the difference is negligible.

In U15, they have flattened the field so hard that even the noobiest of noobs in off-trait dropped randomised gear is only going to do 1500 DPS less than the highest ranking member on leaderboards.

Trust me, regardless of the difference people will still flock to whatever is acclaimed to be better.

As for the end-game raiders, every bit of damage counts. Time is of the essence in a raid.

ArchMikem · August 2017

No problem. I never chased the meta to begin with.

PlautisCarvain · August 2017

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Hopefully, in U15 though, for the first time in a long while, the "meta" will be more a matter of opinion than provable fact.

The field is going to be the flattest its been in a very long time, with not one meta, but at least 12 different meta's and each class type having an almost entirely different setup to anything near to it. Hell, the meta will change dependent on your racial choice. Racial choices will mean the least they ever have done.

You will have at least 4 viable traits on any weapon of your choice. There will be at least 3 viable mundus stones to choose from, and those three will change dependent on your class and race.

Its already been calculated by Gilliam that the widest the DPS gap is going to be from worst to best is less than 2K DPS.

For the first time, SKILL is what will determine how well you do in endgame PvE or PvP.

A purely crafted setup will have just 2% difference to a dropped raid setup - and most that could easily be made up for in skill alone.

For the first time, it might be time to stop following the theorycrafters and making up your OWN mind about what to use.

Thank you for that answer, you are right man

technohic · August 2017

If you want the meta, you can enjoy it for several months. Other than that, I generally do what I enjoy like heavy armor mag sorc with no shield because I dislike having to refresh shields constantly. You do it at your own peril however

Betsararie · August 2017

If this game is noobified and dumbed down so that all players are roughly equal, I will simply leave the game, likely for FFXIV. Morrowind was the first hint that ZOS I actively trying to ruin their game, and if it continues, I'll simply leave and won't look back.

Morgul667 · August 2017

I agree, I stopped chasing it a few months ago.

I dont like the constant grinding so I just settle for second in slot or best "performance/grinding-time" ratio

zeus1gdsm · August 2017

I don't think it will be nooobified. It will be more balanced. I've played since Vr ranks and I get burned out after a month or so just grinding for the bis.

Now with the gear field leveled a bit more players will be able to complete end game content. Thus more raids will be run.

Sucks for the elitists I know. But they will still be grinding for the absolute .5% better gear anyway. And will continue to be elite.

Whereas people like myself with minimal time to invest due to real life responsibilities will be able to get groups for raids without having to grind for a month to get supreme optimal gear. Those like myself are usually poor in gold as well. I've had to join a trading guild and farm specific items to sell to get gold to buy items for my builds as of right now it's easier than grinding.

I'm looking forward to it.

Morgul667 · August 2017

I might even equip my Julianos and Hunding back

MrBetadine · August 2017

Blanco wrote: »

If this game is noobified and dumbed down so that all players are roughly equal, I will simply leave the game, likely for FFXIV. Morrowind was the first hint that ZOS I actively trying to ruin their game, and if it continues, I'll simply leave and won't look back.

see you

Waffennacht · August 2017

I MAKE the META

LegacyDM · August 2017

People running damage builds and damage gets nerfed. People running sustain builds and sustain gets nerfed. People running bis sets and bis gets nerfed. People running monster helms and monster helms get nerfed. People running proc sets and procs get nerfed. People playing in cp campaigns and cps get nerfed. People run shield builds and shields get nerfed. People play classes and class skills get nerfed. People get lag in cyrodil and torch bugs and deer get nerfed.

I think your onto something. The meta always gets nerfed. Zos and the white knights will just call it balancing and incremental changes.

Tasear · August 2017

I cried for whole sec when I saw the heavy hammer that went down on health it shield tanks, but it was kinda ridiculous... still is super powerful cheesy and easy way to tank. I will see if there something out that interests me to switch for the fun of it, but I am quite fond of the name green pact and plague doctor...gives a silly grin on my face

Edit

Pretty sure I had an influence in this meta when I showed this build everyone this build when complaining about tanking post Morrowind

idk · August 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

Nothing wrong with chasing the meta if you want to play the best you can.

The meta changes like every 3-6 months which is way more than enough time to grind a set up.

This is the answer. Meta is not for everyone, meaning everyone has different interest.

We all know Zos has issues understanding their game which means their balance patches are just moving the marks around rather than getting closer to balance. Of course true balance in an MMORPG is a myth.

We should all play the game, within the Zos design of the quarter, the way we enjoy it.

SameMeteor26 · August 2017

I too hate chasing the meta. Literally every time, when I finally get all the BiS gear I wanted with all the right traits and quality and everything, there is an update. And all my gear if grinded so hard to get because the stupid RnG is broken and stupid AF, is now useless or not nearly as good.

Morgul667 · August 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Nothing wrong with chasing the meta if you want to play the best you can.

The meta changes like every 3-6 months which is way more than enough time to grind a set up.

This is the answer. Meta is not for everyone, meaning everyone has different interest.

We all know Zos has issues understanding their game which means their balance patches are just moving the marks around rather than getting closer to balance. Of course true balance in an MMORPG is a myth.

We should all play the game, within the Zos design of the quarter, the way we enjoy it.

True but I think HotR is going in the direction for balance.

For me changing gear every 3-6 months is boring so I dont do it, for some it may be acceptable. No biggie, just do what you like

Malmai · August 2017

I still use still my old gear and guess what it will be meta again haha...

Beardimus · August 2017

If people chase the meta..flock to it like sheep...copy den streamer builds and talk.about it here so millions run the same gear of course they will get nerfed..

red_emu · August 2017

That's why I never, ever follow the meta builds. I play as I like. I pick sets that I consider interesting to me, skills and rotations that seem to work just fine. I don't care for being 1226 in line to the emperor throne, I don't care if I die in all 1v1. I am quick on my feet and usually good at predicting what the enemy is going to do. I like to play Ina way that entertains me and not the leaderboards. I like to support my group with very well timed heals and melt enemies from behind the lines. And if the situation calls for a suicide distraction to save my group, I do it.

No BiS gwar will ever provide more fun than playing the way you want your character to play. If I wanted to play a number crunching robot I'd play a different game.

GreyWolf_79 · August 2017

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Hopefully, in U15 though, for the first time in a long while, the "meta" will be more a matter of opinion than provable fact.

The field is going to be the flattest its been in a very long time, with not one meta, but at least 12 different meta's and each class type having an almost entirely different setup to anything near to it. Hell, the meta will change dependent on your racial choice. Racial choices will mean the least they ever have done.

You will have at least 4 viable traits on any weapon of your choice. There will be at least 3 viable mundus stones to choose from, and those three will change dependent on your class and race.

Its already been calculated by Gilliam that the widest the DPS gap is going to be from worst to best is less than 2K DPS.

For the first time, SKILL is what will determine how well you do in endgame PvE or PvP.

A purely crafted setup will have just 2% difference to a dropped raid setup - and most that could easily be made up for in skill alone.

For the first time, it might be time to stop following the theorycrafters and making up your OWN mind about what to use.

I truly hope that update delivers on the premise (or promise?)

One thing I hate about MMOs is the constant pressure to play X class with Y skills and Z gear, in ABC rotation. That's not fun. That's not "play how you want". **** BiS, **** min/maxing, **** the meta.

TL;DR version:

YES I realize it is an MMO and by its very nature is competitive and/or cooperative, meaning that you should be attempting to operate at maximum efficiency and effectiveness in order to win your battles in the quickest time possible. Everyone always loves to point out the fact that it's an MMO. But what they forget is that it's also an RPG. No, not rocket propelled grenade launcher... role playing game. If you want to role play as "I'm just a dude playing a video game and I want to kill stuff as quickly as possible", fine, go ahead and follow the current meta, wear the same gear that everyone else is using, choose your race based on the passives, etc. But some of us would like to actually play the game as though it were an imaginary world where you can be (almost) anything you want to be. Sure, some builds might always be slightly superior to the others - but games like these should never, ever allow any one playstyle to completely dominate others; and by the same token, no playstyles should ever be considered "useless".

Allow me to elaborate. I don't mean that players who stand around light attacking everything should be as effective as players using actual skills. I don't mean that DDs should be as tanky as tanks or that tanks should be able to heal as good as healers, etc. (although I am open to the idea of viable hybrids). What I mean is that, there should never be this attitude of, "bows suck", or "medium armor sucks", or "nightblades suck", etc. EVERY race, class, skill, weapon, trait, armor style, etc. should have a viable use in the game. Otherwise, there is no point in even having it. If 95% of players agree that X build is total crap, for example... obviously that build needs to be buffed in order to keep up with the other builds. That, or eliminated altogether.

However, again, this is a role playing game, so if somebody wants to play as X build, and they're actually fairly skilled with X build, they should be as effective (or at least nearly as effective) as a skilled player playing the meta.

red_emu · August 2017

You would be surprised how many people don't follow the meta. I remember when Morrowind came out and I made my first Warden. I asked in few zone chats what race should I pick. 9 out of 10 answers were like "whatever race you like to play, don't fall into the BiS trap of elitism".

So it's great to see that despite what's being said on forums, most people actually enjoy the game for the game and not farming the best gear.

Jitterbug · August 2017

Fight the Meta!

Thrymbauld · August 2017

Blanco wrote: »

If this game is noobified and dumbed down so that all players are roughly equal, I will simply leave the game, likely for FFXIV. Morrowind was the first hint that ZOS I actively trying to ruin their game, and if it continues, I'll simply leave and won't look back.

Then you should be in good shape, because all meta does is dumb things down.

Sharpened is an easy choice on weapons right now. It's meta. It's also a no brainer. You aren't smarter or better by using a sharpened weapon. The game isn't noobified by forcing a decision between sharpened, infused, and precise.

Dumbed down is what Blizzard did to WoW tanking. I went from a fine balance between uncrittable, high evasion, high HP, and even damage considerations----hours of scrutinizing a proper gear loadout and finding a proper rythm that would accomplish both threat and survivability right straight to....spam thunderclap, probably should rend too, memorize when to use shield wall, stack whatever tank gear you want because it all gives identical evasion/hp(higher as you went, that's it). THAT was dumbing down. This is choices. Choices are good.

Masel · August 2017

I've always done my own thing and did everything this game has to offer, so you can do whatever the hell you want, you just have to know how to play it.

RouDeR · August 2017

PlautisCarvain wrote: »

My sets that were considered BiS get nerfed, and so other got nerfed before. I'm done with always trying to be the "meta" build.

My sets used to be shadow dancer + elegance on a mag DK for pvp now those sets are worthles cuz of the speed nerfs and heavy attack damage nerfand they were never bis , they were just fun.