Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
Challenge: Can anyone name a stam/mag class ability that's completely restricted? (Help Wrobel!)
-
murdomac101✭✭✭I think for me the most restricted class is the DK (I have one, plus NB, Sorc and Warden). It isn't bad, but just needs a few more tweaks than some of the others do as they are in a better place.3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't really know magDK's much at all, but I'd suspect an execute may be a bit on the strong side.. I mean, once those dots are built up - won't the combination of dot damage and anytime's be as good as an execute already ?
MDKs DoTs are easily purged. And with that logic- you're saying no one needs an execute if they're doing damage prior to.
Well, dots are doing damage at the same time - not 'prior to'. And not everyone has a purge.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
tunepunk✭✭✭✭✭What's the point if all classes have the exactly the same type of skills, for each resource pool?
If u need a magicka based gap closer, play a class that has it, or use a stamina one. U know that even if you play a magicka character, you can still use stamina skills right? They won't be as effective but they still work...
I used to play around with a mag sorc, but used a stamina based gap closer (stampede or invasion works well). After charge, placed a circle of death around them. (Daedric Mines). The stamina ability was used as a utility skill, and not for the damage.
Just because you're specced in a certain pool it doesn't mean you can't use skills from the other pool, if you use them for their utility. Be creative...
0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't really know magDK's much at all, but I'd suspect an execute may be a bit on the strong side.. I mean, once those dots are built up - won't the combination of dot damage and anytime's be as good as an execute already ?
MDKs DoTs are easily purged. And with that logic- you're saying no one needs an execute if they're doing damage prior to.
Well, dots are doing damage at the same time - not 'prior to'. And not everyone has a purge.
Everyone does have access to a purge (alliance war skill) and there are armor sets specifically designed to purge harmful effects.
One of the "special" designs that supposedly makes DKs unique is their DoTs.... which end up being purged, anyway.
Don't get me wrong- it's a powerful design for PVE... but for PVP- it's flawed.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren2 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What's the point if all classes have the exactly the same type of skills, for each resource pool?
If u need a magicka based gap closer, play a class that has it, or use a stamina one. U know that even if you play a magicka character, you can still use stamina skills right? They won't be as effective but they still work...
I used to play around with a mag sorc, but used a stamina based gap closer (stampede or invasion works well). After charge, placed a circle of death around them. (Daedric Mines). The stamina ability was used as a utility skill, and not for the damage.
Just because you're specced in a certain pool it doesn't mean you can't use skills from the other pool, if you use them for their utility. Be creative...
And how, exactly, would that work for an execute for mDKs? What would you suggest? That they use use their magicka based skills to wear down an enemy- stop the fight to equip a 2H sword... and then use the 2H stamina-based execute (that would hit like a wet noodle on a magicka-based build)?Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
tunepunk✭✭✭✭✭What's the point if all classes have the exactly the same type of skills, for each resource pool?
If u need a magicka based gap closer, play a class that has it, or use a stamina one. U know that even if you play a magicka character, you can still use stamina skills right? They won't be as effective but they still work...
I used to play around with a mag sorc, but used a stamina based gap closer (stampede or invasion works well). After charge, placed a circle of death around them. (Daedric Mines). The stamina ability was used as a utility skill, and not for the damage.
Just because you're specced in a certain pool it doesn't mean you can't use skills from the other pool, if you use them for their utility. Be creative...
And how, exactly, would that work for an execute for mDKs? What would you suggest? That they use use their magicka based skills to wear down an enemy- stop the fight to equip a 2H sword... and then use the 2H stamina-based execute (that would hit like a wet noodle on a magicka-based build)?
That execute could hit pretty hard still. If you're using infused on your 2hander. You would get the damage from the execute (which of course would be lower), plus the damage from the weapon proc, which can hit for a quite good ammount, with some champion points and Penetration or oblivion damage. Your weapon procs are unaffected by stats (spell power, weapon damage, stamina, magicka) so they always hit hard regardless of what kind of weapon you put them on. you just need to make sure it procs when the execute goes off...
I might be wrong, but I think it might do very close to the damage of a stamina specced char, if the weapon proc goes off at the same time as the execute.
0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What's the point if all classes have the exactly the same type of skills, for each resource pool?
If u need a magicka based gap closer, play a class that has it, or use a stamina one. U know that even if you play a magicka character, you can still use stamina skills right? They won't be as effective but they still work...
I used to play around with a mag sorc, but used a stamina based gap closer (stampede or invasion works well). After charge, placed a circle of death around them. (Daedric Mines). The stamina ability was used as a utility skill, and not for the damage.
Just because you're specced in a certain pool it doesn't mean you can't use skills from the other pool, if you use them for their utility. Be creative...
And how, exactly, would that work for an execute for mDKs? What would you suggest? That they use use their magicka based skills to wear down an enemy- stop the fight to equip a 2H sword... and then use the 2H stamina-based execute (that would hit like a wet noodle on a magicka-based build)?
That execute could hit pretty hard still. If you're using infused on your 2hander. You would get the damage from the execute (which of course would be lower), plus the damage from the weapon proc, which can hit for a quite good ammount, with some champion points and Penetration or oblivion damage. Your weapon procs are unaffected by stats (spell power, weapon damage, stamina, magicka) so they always hit hard regardless of what kind of weapon you put them on. you just need to make sure it procs when the execute goes off...
I might be wrong, but I think it might do very close to the damage of a stamina specced char, if the weapon proc goes off at the same time as the execute.
Then this isn't really an execute, is it? It's just hoping that a weapon proc goes off during a weapon attack. Here's the math for you:
On my mDK, I have 35.8k mag, 21.1k health, and 13.7k stam wearing all legendary BSW, SotS, and Valkyn with all prismatic enchants.
My Force Pulse (unbuffed) does 2394 fire, 2142 shock, 2142 ice for a total of: 6678 damage
If I were to equip a 2H, Reverse Slash would deal:1529 physical damage x 300% to low health enemies for a total of: 4587 damage (You wouldn't call that an execute, would you?)
...that's the problem with trying to run a stamina-based execute on a magicka-based character.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't really know magDK's much at all, but I'd suspect an execute may be a bit on the strong side.. I mean, once those dots are built up - won't the combination of dot damage and anytime's be as good as an execute already ?
MDKs DoTs are easily purged. And with that logic- you're saying no one needs an execute if they're doing damage prior to.
Well, dots are doing damage at the same time - not 'prior to'. And not everyone has a purge.
Everyone does have access to a purge (alliance war skill) and there are armor sets specifically designed to purge harmful effects.
One of the "special" designs that supposedly makes DKs unique is their DoTs.... which end up being purged, anyway.
Don't get me wrong- it's a powerful design for PVE... but for PVP- it's flawed.
'Access to' doesn't necessarily mean realistically usable. You know fine well that the alliance purge is ridiculously expensive for a magcia class - let a lone a stam class.
Every build has weaknesses if you choose to focus on their strengths. My magsorc is DW - focusses on burst and has 0 sustained damage. It doesn't have purge slotted so just eats those dots, and comes across a lot of hard counters (anyone with wings and s+b ulti - anyone with a dodge build and Miat's). I accept that it has weaknesses in that its main way of dealing damage can be completely nullified by some classes/builds - I accept that knowing that it does well against other builds.
Can you not accept that a dot-build can run into the same kind of hard-counters, but will also run into those who cannot counter it and cannot deal with the pressure? You are wrong in simply saying that dots are useless just because there are counters. Everything in game has counters.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't really know magDK's much at all, but I'd suspect an execute may be a bit on the strong side.. I mean, once those dots are built up - won't the combination of dot damage and anytime's be as good as an execute already ?
MDKs DoTs are easily purged. And with that logic- you're saying no one needs an execute if they're doing damage prior to.
Well, dots are doing damage at the same time - not 'prior to'. And not everyone has a purge.
Dots Don't really deal much damage against players Sorcs can shield stack through it, Templars can purge it, NBs can use cloak to ignore it.
Meh.Power Wealth And Influence.2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't really know magDK's much at all, but I'd suspect an execute may be a bit on the strong side.. I mean, once those dots are built up - won't the combination of dot damage and anytime's be as good as an execute already ?
MDKs DoTs are easily purged. And with that logic- you're saying no one needs an execute if they're doing damage prior to.
Well, dots are doing damage at the same time - not 'prior to'. And not everyone has a purge.
Everyone does have access to a purge (alliance war skill) and there are armor sets specifically designed to purge harmful effects.
One of the "special" designs that supposedly makes DKs unique is their DoTs.... which end up being purged, anyway.
Don't get me wrong- it's a powerful design for PVE... but for PVP- it's flawed.
And that's ok too. ZoS intends ESO to have different playstyles which have a hierarchy of builds/classes for each. While dps MDK fails in certain PvP situations, it exceeds in pve content, or as tanks. But against vampire builds, they will do great in pvp or as block-spam tanks looking to confuse players in the heat of Battle.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't really know magDK's much at all, but I'd suspect an execute may be a bit on the strong side.. I mean, once those dots are built up - won't the combination of dot damage and anytime's be as good as an execute already ?
MDKs DoTs are easily purged. And with that logic- you're saying no one needs an execute if they're doing damage prior to.
Well, dots are doing damage at the same time - not 'prior to'. And not everyone has a purge.
Everyone does have access to a purge (alliance war skill) and there are armor sets specifically designed to purge harmful effects.
One of the "special" designs that supposedly makes DKs unique is their DoTs.... which end up being purged, anyway.
Don't get me wrong- it's a powerful design for PVE... but for PVP- it's flawed.
And that's ok too. ZoS intends ESO to have different playstyles which have a hierarchy of builds/classes for each. While dps MDK fails in certain PvP situations, it exceeds in pve content, or as tanks. But against vampire builds, they will do great in pvp or as block-spam tanks looking to confuse players in the heat of Battle.
With that logic where doesn't a Sorc exceed? Fantastic in PVP. Fantastic in PVE. (In no way do i think they should be nerfed... i like my sorcs, too)
...but I digress. This is getting a bit off topic. The idea is to show ZoS that every class build (stamina or magicka based) has access to globalized skills or abilities that scale to their primary resource pool through some means (class skill, guild skill, weapon skill, armor set, or even poisons)... with the exception of an mDK with a magicka based execute.
It appears that almost every mag or stam build has some means to a common skill/ability based off their primary resource pool with that one exception.
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren3 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RedFireDisco wrote: »No burst heal for stamblades at all
Rally, soul siphon, in some case Mark Target,0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Destro line needs an execute. Would fix Mag DKs without overpowering them (most don't slot Destro, or if they did they'd have to give up s/s) and would also fix mag wardens.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭Destro line needs an execute. Would fix Mag DKs without overpowering them (most don't slot Destro, or if they did they'd have to give up s/s) and would also fix mag wardens.
How would that fix mag dks if they most don't slot a destro? So in order to get an execute you would be forced to give up a lot of survival survivability by not being able to go 1h/s or resto?#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »Destro line needs an execute. Would fix Mag DKs without overpowering them (most don't slot Destro, or if they did they'd have to give up s/s) and would also fix mag wardens.
How would that fix mag dks if they most don't slot a destro? So in order to get an execute you would be forced to give up a lot of survival survivability by not being able to go 1h/s or resto?
We want the impulse + whip build of 1.2Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DK is IMO the most broken class in eso. Broken, not worst.
Gapcloser locked+height issues.
Lowest sustain
Snipped wings
Range nerfed ulti (Was a hotfix for keep jumps that was never reverted)
No execute
2 *** sec on maj mending, like not even worth it anymore.
Edited by ak_pvp on July 29, 2017 8:51PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DK is IMO the most broken class in eso.
Gapcloser locked+height issues.
Lowest sustain
Snipped wings
Range nerfed ulti (Was a hotfix for keep jumps that was never reverted)
No execute
2 *** sec on maj mending, like not even worth it anymore.
100% agree. And let's not forget about the change to Inferno.
I will say that it's absolutely frustrating (for any class actually) to get that error message mid-combat "target too high or too low"...Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭
those are the only classes I play so I mained dk before now playing a warden I think the warden need one that's not bear for magicka buildsDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
RedFireDisco✭✭✭✭RedFireDisco wrote: »No burst heal for stamblades at all
Rally, soul siphon, in some case Mark Target,
If they're burst heals then whip is an execute
0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RedFireDisco wrote: »RedFireDisco wrote: »No burst heal for stamblades at all
Rally, soul siphon, in some case Mark Target,
If they're burst heals then whip is an execute
Rally can possibly be considered burst, the others much less so.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Templar has no eqvuivalent of using its Magicka pool to immobilize (root/disable such as Rune Prison, Fossilize, Talons, etc) enemies while every other class does.
Before you say "nO ClAsS hAs AcCess to A CLeAnse buT TEMPLAR REEEEE" yes you do, it's called Efficient Purge and it's simply a weaker version of Ritual of Retribution, but you DO have access to it without have to use an entirely different weapon (Ice staff, the literal weakest offensive magicka weapon. and even then the root is REFLECTABLE LOL) and sacrificing over 8% of our magic-based damage on that bar which no other class is required to do.
Magicka Templars have no way of maintaining a burst against an enemy which is much faster than themselves (Wardens, Sorcerers, Nightblades) like every other magicka class has.
Magicka Templar also has the weakest resource-return mechanics of all the classes in Channeled Focus because who can sit still that long in a high-pressure fight? However, that's for another discussion (though it contributes to the need for an in-class immobilization skill).Edited by FlamingBeard on July 30, 2017 4:21PM0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RedFireDisco wrote: »RedFireDisco wrote: »No burst heal for stamblades at all
Rally, soul siphon, in some case Mark Target,
If they're burst heals then whip is an execute
All of them heal you for a lot, but I can see the case for soul siphon and mark target being less than desirable :P
but if you think rally is not burst heal when it is THE BURST HEAL surpassed by only few other, I dont have words for you0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »Templar has no eqvuivalent of using its Magicka pool to immobilize (root/disable such as Rune Prison, Fossilize, Talons, etc) enemies while every other class does.
Before you say "nO ClAsS hAs AcCess to A CLeAnse buT TEMPLAR REEEEE" yes you do, it's called Efficient Purge and it's simply a weaker version of Ritual of Retribution, but you DO have access to it without have to use an entirely different weapon (Ice staff, the literal weakest offensive magicka weapon. and even then the root is REFLECTABLE LOL) and sacrificing over 8% of our magic-based damage on that bar which no other class is required to do.
Magicka Templars have no way of maintaining a burst against an enemy which is much faster than themselves (Wardens, Sorcerers, Nightblades) like every other magicka class has.
Magicka Templar also has the weakest resource-return mechanics of all the classes in Channeled Focus because who can sit still that long in a high-pressure fight? However, that's for another discussion (though it contributes to the need for an in-class immobilization skill).
@FlamingBeard
The MagPlar's lack of root ability was already added to the list of the initial post. And I think most people know about Efficient Purge (though, I don't see a stamina-based version of that).
I'm not sure I follow you on the "...burst against an enemy much faster than themselves..." though. Are you saying that they don't have a gap-closer to catch up? Or are you saying that they don't have burst damage that's ranged to hit escaping enemies?Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »Templar has no eqvuivalent of using its Magicka pool to immobilize (root/disable such as Rune Prison, Fossilize, Talons, etc) enemies while every other class does.
Before you say "nO ClAsS hAs AcCess to A CLeAnse buT TEMPLAR REEEEE" yes you do, it's called Efficient Purge and it's simply a weaker version of Ritual of Retribution, but you DO have access to it without have to use an entirely different weapon (Ice staff, the literal weakest offensive magicka weapon. and even then the root is REFLECTABLE LOL) and sacrificing over 8% of our magic-based damage on that bar which no other class is required to do.
Magicka Templars have no way of maintaining a burst against an enemy which is much faster than themselves (Wardens, Sorcerers, Nightblades) like every other magicka class has.
Magicka Templar also has the weakest resource-return mechanics of all the classes in Channeled Focus because who can sit still that long in a high-pressure fight? However, that's for another discussion (though it contributes to the need for an in-class immobilization skill).
@FlamingBeard
The MagPlar's lack of root ability was already added to the list of the initial post. And I think most people know about Efficient Purge (though, I don't see a stamina-based version of that).
I'm not sure I follow you on the "...burst against an enemy much faster than themselves..." though. Are you saying that they don't have a gap-closer to catch up? Or are you saying that they don't have burst damage that's ranged to hit escaping enemies?
I guess I should have been clearer. Other magicka classes can "stop" magicka Templar burst whenever they want to with their roots or disables and then use that time to recover some resources or start damaging us. And this doesn't even take into account the hard CC's that they are probably using on us every chance they get as well.
We have no ability to do this and have to rely solely on the hard-cc of Toppling Charge or Aurora Javelin (one of which is reflectable and both are blockable) which both have hard-CC cooldowns shared.
This means Templars will nearly always be dealing with someone's full burst on them because we lack the ability to prevent them from doing so, unlike other classes.
This is where the "Templar heals" come in, but we also have the worst magicka sustain of any class so it's difficult to use a damage-dealing build (with damage-buffing sets) and have the same success as other classes.
MagDK at least gets some of the best class ultimates in the game (Standard and Leap are both amazing), while Templar has some of the worst class ultimates for solo PvP.Edited by FlamingBeard on July 30, 2017 4:56PM0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Templar ultimates are bad, but don't envy Standard. Standard is just terrible for the cost.1 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@FlamingBeard
I feel ya. I wish ZoS could've come up with a better plan for MagPlar's true CC (Spear Shards)- but I think they did the same knee-jerk reaction with MagPlars as they did with MagDK's Inferno. They completely destroyed it for PVP.
As for the magicka sustain- I'd say it's a little on the same level as mDK (though it's not sustain we suffer from... it's the cost of skills). The only work-around for that is to slot magicka drain poisons and regen glyphs on jewelry.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0
