Who are we to question their logic on what should be the correct reward for our efforts.
Don't get me started on the whole the more you know the better rewards.
To date I have writs every day and only had 1 writ just over a hundred. (99% of motifs known etc)
I know people that have barely any knowledge and get multiple 200+ ones.
Well played zos, well played

The master writs are a mess. Zos thinks they are fixing the problem by making vouchers account bound in upcoming patch.....lolololol After I researched everything all over again on one character, learned most motifs on only that one character too. I can't afford to learn all these useless motifs on all my crafters. I just want them to fix the drop rates and make the voucher amount be in line with the tier, mats and complexity of the crafting required. Not ten vouchers for a legendary armor, crafted in IC, with the rarest motif using nirnhoned. This is s**t. I thing a baboon sat and just poked on a keyboard to create this disaster.

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, hormones vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

Yes, it may be a "minor trait", in your opinion, but have gotten about the same for writ

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, hormones vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

I understand there are higher major factors; however, they don't seem to be included also. Why should I be able to make something Epic with a reinforced trait and get more than using nirnhoned. To add, the nirnhoned takes more learned traits that I have dealt with. Granted as you have said it's a "permanent" status; however, it still takes almost 27 days with ESO+ to learn the 9th trait and the 8th, plus 7th trait are not that much further behind it for time. So to learn the last 3 without any speed buff vouchers can take two and a half months.

saxgooner wrote: »

I didn't know vouchers are going to be bound. I feel sorry for people that don't have the knowledge to be able to craft anything required.
I quite liked getting the writs they couldn't do as tips from people who I craft for

Vouchers have always been bound; after the update they'll be account-bound instead of character-bound. The sealed master writs will continue to be traded.

Targe wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, nirnhoned vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

Yes, it may be a "minor trait", in your opinion, but have gotten about the same for writ

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, nirnhoned vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

I understand there are higher major factors; however, they don't seem to be included also. Why should I be able to make something Epic with a reinforced trait and get more than using nirnhoned. To add, the nirnhoned takes more learned traits that I have dealt with. Granted as you have said it's a "permanent" status; however, it still takes almost 27 days with ESO+ to learn the 9th trait and the 8th, plus 7th trait are not that much further behind it for time. So to learn the last 3 without any speed buff vouchers can take two and a half months.

I am not sure what you mean in your bringing vs reinforced epic.

In all the burned writ vouchers i have see, there was a significant difference in vouchers in favor of nirnhoned because of the expense. About the only thing larger was legendary vs epic.

My memory is nirnhoned adds about 10 vouchers to a writ payout. Epic armor piece being like 17 vs 6-7. Epic to legendary however is much larger.

As for time to learn prosperous or whatever you choose as your ninth trait.p, yes it took a lot of calendar days waiting for that clock to run out, but all those 9 traait writs you get don't go bad like milk. You can just hold them and cash in later. It's not like you are losing playtime, right? Payment delayed vs expense per use are vastly different in impact and are imo priced accordingly.

Damned autocorrect

Trait amount of sets affect slightly. The profession, quality, trait, motif and set all affect the master writ as multipliers. So the voucher amount is
profession*set*trait*quality*motif.

I remember e.g. blacksmith nirnhoned legendary (all three strogest multipliers together) master writs giving between 257 and 328 vouchers. The difference of them comes from set and motif. I never have bothered to find out exact formula.

According to ZOS, trait amount affects mostly drop rates and only slightly to voucher amounts via set. I have never tested master writ drip rates below seven trait crafters. The first month nine traits knowledge gave significantly more master writs than 8 traits. Now the difference is rather small and hard to distinguish from other factors.

From last statistics gathering of two weeks, my nine trait crafters got 20% more gear master writs than eight trait crafters. But keep in mind that the test period is way too short. The nine trait crafters have also typically more purple motifs learned.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, hormones vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

Yes, it may be a "minor trait", in your opinion, but have gotten about the same for writ

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, hormones vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

I understand there are higher major factors; however, they don't seem to be included also. Why should I be able to make something Epic with a reinforced trait and get more than using nirnhoned. To add, the nirnhoned takes more learned traits that I have dealt with. Granted as you have said it's a "permanent" status; however, it still takes almost 27 days with ESO+ to learn the 9th trait and the 8th, plus 7th trait are not that much further behind it for time. So to learn the last 3 without any speed buff vouchers can take two and a half months.

Ironically, you can more than cut that time in half by using research scrolls ... bought with vouchers. Or crowns. The research scrolls are on, I think, a 20 hour timer.

Yeah there is a decent cost to speed up the learning of traits. First is paying $15 a month so it takes 3 less days. Next, if you are still learning traits, you have to hope that you can get vouchers that you can do or buy Crafting Speed Learning Scrolls which takes time to find any for sale, if you are unable to earn the vouchers yourself yet. The short point, it takes time, effort, and cost to get everything quicker which should be rewarded for the sacrifice that it takes.

Pele wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Trait amount of sets affect slightly. The profession, quality, trait, motif and set all affect the master writ as multipliers. So the voucher amount is
profession*set*trait*quality*motif.

I remember e.g. blacksmith nirnhoned legendary (all three strogest multipliers together) master writs giving between 257 and 328 vouchers. The difference of them comes from set and motif. I never have bothered to find out exact formula.

According to ZOS, trait amount affects mostly drop rates and only slightly to voucher amounts via set. I have never tested master writ drip rates below seven trait crafters. The first month nine traits knowledge gave significantly more master writs than 8 traits. Now the difference is rather small and hard to distinguish from other factors.

From last statistics gathering of two weeks, my nine trait crafters got 20% more gear master writs than eight trait crafters. But keep in mind that the test period is way too short. The nine trait crafters have also typically more purple motifs learned.

The one thing I can say as a certainty: I am forced to spend much more time to extract the same amount of vouchers.

The number of 5-7 voucher writs for equipment is really unacceptable to me. There are so many time sinks in the game now, it was unnecessary to make this worse than it was before. If I am in a charitable mood, I would think the change was implemented to mollify the low-end crafters that were upset that they received no master writs. While I think that's great, high-end crafters should receive far fewer low value writs as the problems of the low end crafters are not the problems of the high end crafters.

By high and low end I just mean number of traits researched, motifs learned, etc.

Ya, it's odd that a 9-trait writ rewards me the same number of vouchers as a writ requiring 2 traits.

Traits known is factored into drop rate.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, hormones vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

Yes, it may be a "minor trait", in your opinion, but have gotten about the same for writ

STEVIL wrote: »

Targe wrote: »

I have seen a number of writ vouchers where it is the same or just 1 or 2 more or less vouchers between a 2 piece set item and 9 piece set item. I think this is unbalanced and the writ vouchers that need 8 or 9 traits to complete should have some extra real benefit.

Traits are a minor element. That is because it is a permanent factor. It will apply for free over and over as time goes on.

The major factors are the "every writ costs" like gold vs purple, hormones vs typical traits, roe vs normal foods, etc. That is because they hit you every time.

The minor elements that add day one of two vouchers include traits req, one of dutiful and Unc the fighters and mages guild quest ones.

I understand there are higher major factors; however, they don't seem to be included also. Why should I be able to make something Epic with a reinforced trait and get more than using nirnhoned. To add, the nirnhoned takes more learned traits that I have dealt with. Granted as you have said it's a "permanent" status; however, it still takes almost 27 days with ESO+ to learn the 9th trait and the 8th, plus 7th trait are not that much further behind it for time. So to learn the last 3 without any speed buff vouchers can take two and a half months.

Ironically, you can more than cut that time in half by using research scrolls ... bought with vouchers. Or crowns. The research scrolls are on, I think, a 20 hour timer.

Yeah there is a decent cost to speed up the learning of traits. First is paying $15 a month so it takes 3 less days. Next, if you are still learning traits, you have to hope that you can get vouchers that you can do or buy Crafting Speed Learning Scrolls which takes time to find any for sale, if you are unable to earn the vouchers yourself yet. The short point, it takes time, effort, and cost to get everything quicker which should be rewarded for the sacrifice that it takes.

Hmm, did not realize they are rare on merchants. Three vouchers is very cheap, what would be a fair price without profiteering of the misery of the poor?

I generally sell my speed crafting vouchers that take 3 writs for 4,250g and seem to move well. I figure 1k per writ and a little extra to cover the cost of the materials. Granted I don't buy Master Writs and just use from the pool that I have built up, since the system has started.

It costs the same to craft an item from a 9 trait set as it does to craft the same type and quality from a 2 trait set. That said, if the writ requires knowing nine traits on an item there are going to be far fewer players out there who will be able to fill it. So they should make the harder writs worth more writ vouchers to make them easier to sell.

STEVIL wrote: »

Yes that was clear.

But its works like this... The 9 trait thing is a permanent benefit that affects drop rates, so your reward for 9 traits is getting more writs dropping AND being able to do them regardless of trait count. A six trait character would find 9 trait writs not possible to do and would get fewer.

So having 9 traits unlocked everywhere increases your net vouchers gained in two ways.

Meanwhile the vouchers per writ is based more exclusively on the problems and costs of actually doing the writ. Rare motifs mean rare ingredients or mimic stones, legendary is high cost, nirnhone is high cost, haji is high cost, roe is high cost, getting to pvp tables is difficult, etc.

So one set of factors impact drop rates and other factors influence voucher per writ with likely some overlap. But that is not odd.

Now I get it. Thank-you for the detailed explanation.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Pele wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Pele wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Trait amount of sets affect slightly. The profession, quality, trait, motif and set all affect the master writ as multipliers. So the voucher amount is
profession*set*trait*quality*motif.

I remember e.g. blacksmith nirnhoned legendary (all three strogest multipliers together) master writs giving between 257 and 328 vouchers. The difference of them comes from set and motif. I never have bothered to find out exact formula.

According to ZOS, trait amount affects mostly drop rates and only slightly to voucher amounts via set. I have never tested master writ drip rates below seven trait crafters. The first month nine traits knowledge gave significantly more master writs than 8 traits. Now the difference is rather small and hard to distinguish from other factors.

From last statistics gathering of two weeks, my nine trait crafters got 20% more gear master writs than eight trait crafters. But keep in mind that the test period is way too short. The nine trait crafters have also typically more purple motifs learned.

The one thing I can say as a certainty: I am forced to spend much more time to extract the same amount of vouchers.

The number of 5-7 voucher writs for equipment is really unacceptable to me. There are so many time sinks in the game now, it was unnecessary to make this worse than it was before. If I am in a charitable mood, I would think the change was implemented to mollify the low-end crafters that were upset that they received no master writs. While I think that's great, high-end crafters should receive far fewer low value writs as the problems of the low end crafters are not the problems of the high end crafters.

By high and low end I just mean number of traits researched, motifs learned, etc.

Ya, it's odd that a 9-trait writ rewards me the same number of vouchers as a writ requiring 2 traits.

Traits known is factored into drop rate.

I'm not talking about drop rate. I mean the number of vouchers awarded for completing a master writ.

Yes that was clear.

But its works like this... The 9 trait thing is a permanent benefit that affects drop rates, so your reward for 9 traits is getting more writs dropping AND being able to do them regardless of trait count. A six trait character would find 9 trait writs not possible to do and would get fewer.

So having 9 traits unlocked everywhere increases your net vouchers gained in two ways.

Meanwhile the vouchers per writ is based more exclusively on the problems and costs of actually doing the writ. Rare motifs mean rare ingredients or mimic stones, legendary is high cost, nirnhone is high cost, haji is high cost, roe is high cost, getting to pvp tables is difficult, etc.

So one set of factors impact drop rates and other factors influence voucher per writ with likely some overlap. But that is not odd.

Supposedly, but not in fact always true. I've had writs requiring nirnhoned that went for fewer than 10 vouchers.

I've had prismatic writs that went for fewer than 10.

I've never had a writ for more than 70 vouchers, but I've been all over the map, used all the styles, all the tempers.

Writs in IC were no better than writs outside. Writs requiring you to pay for DLC didn't give a bonus. Writs requiring potent nirnhoned didn't give any more than writs requiring sapphire.

The only slight correlation I can see is in using legendary tempers - but even then I've had legendary writs that went for fewer than 40 vouchers.

I have ran into the same issues with writs as well. It really hard to tell how they come up with the reward system for them.