Please consider adding some kind of more "sandbox" experience than "theme park" experience to ESO.

Xender · July 2017

Great example of dull quest from ESO Morrwind:
I have to find someones mission daughter from house Rederan. After few generic conversations I figured I have to overhear someones. When I done that, my mission was to follow a message and watch where he leave the message. I have to work undercover because messenger shouldn't se me. What happen when he saw me? He shouted "Stay away from me" and quest continued the same way. In that case in typical RPG or TES game this part of quest SHOULD FAIL and I should have to find another way of finish quest. This is dull and we are deluded with the promises of TES experience in online game, however it is much different and shallow.

dsalter · July 2017

i want more random events, some even rare like a battle between a bandits and a "boss" werewolf or maybe ones healers can help on where an animal needs to be saved with healing, or tank based ones where you gotta hold aggro from the guy till he soultraps a daedra.
you know, more stuff that adds random fluff, they were entertaining in skyrim and fallout.
tho wish mods would add more of them

Xvorg · July 2017

The Justice system was what we all expected in regards sandbox experience...

saddly...

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Xender wrote: »

- Journey: teleporting to dungeon? Wayshrines? Small areas? It is boring. When I think about true RPG adventure I think about going on journey with friends, and then wandering for one or two hours until we reach our destination. Fighting against the odds and dangers. Finally at the destination we may enter to the ancient temple and spend time in "dungeon". It should rewarding and interesting.

So don't use Wayshrines. Go on a journey with your friends and wander for hours - nobody is stopping you.

Go kill some world bosses... go round all the dolmen on foot... there's plenty that will keep you occupied for hours!

Want to fight people? Go to Cyrodiil!

Want to get in a guild and go fight people? Join a PvP guild and do it. There's tons to do, if you want it.

But don't complain that travelling by wayshrines is boring when nobody is forcing you to do it.

A sandbox MMO is basically a themepark MMO, but with all the rides removed.

BDO is a great example of that. It's a big empty world. The devs initially vowed there would be no raids or dungeons because those are "restrictive" to creative gameplay (read: Pearl Abyss is too cheap to create actual content). When PvE players reached endgame, they asked "what now"? Killing random trash mobs, fishing, and trading is only fun for so long. So PA added a dungeon to the game (yes, BDO has one dungeon now, lol). They also have world boss grinding, where you summom a world boss to your location everyday. And that's it. That's PvE endgame in BDO.

Ashes of Creation is going to be much of the same. This is why these indie devs and these Korean P2W devs can churn out MMOs so quickly. They release them devoid of any content.

For all the flack ZOS gets, ESO is probably the most content-rich MMO out there (at least in terms of content quality). Morrowind alone has more content than all of BDO.

Xender · July 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Xender wrote: »

- Journey: teleporting to dungeon? Wayshrines? Small areas? It is boring. When I think about true RPG adventure I think about going on journey with friends, and then wandering for one or two hours until we reach our destination. Fighting against the odds and dangers. Finally at the destination we may enter to the ancient temple and spend time in "dungeon". It should rewarding and interesting.

So don't use Wayshrines. Go on a journey with your friends and wander for hours - nobody is stopping you.

Go kill some world bosses... go round all the dolmen on foot... there's plenty that will keep you occupied for hours!

Want to fight people? Go to Cyrodiil!

Want to get in a guild and go fight people? Join a PvP guild and do it. There's tons to do, if you want it.

But don't complain that travelling by wayshrines is boring when nobody is forcing you to do it.

A sandbox MMO is basically a themepark MMO, but with all the rides removed.

BDO is a great example of that. It's a big empty world. The devs initially vowed there would be no raids or dungeons because those are "restrictive" to creative gameplay (read: Pearl Abyss is too cheap to create actual content). When PvE players reached endgame, they asked "what now"? Killing random trash mobs, fishing, and trading is only fun for so long. So PA added a dungeon to the game (yes, BDO has one dungeon now, lol). They also have world boss grinding, where you summom a world boss to your location everyday. And that's it. That's PvE endgame in BDO.

Ashes of Creation is going to be much of the same. This is why these indie devs and these Korean P2W devs can churn out MMOs so quickly. They release them devoid of any content.

For all the flack ZOS gets, ESO is probably the most content-rich MMO out there (at least in terms of content quality). Morrowind alone has more content than all of BDO.

Still this content is simplistic and quite dull. As I mentioned earlier it is average single player game and average multi player game. They should focus and polish at least one aspect of their game.

Additionally, BDO styled content allows for combing back to already explored areas and this is what ESO need, combination of PVE story content with sandbox features which will bring new life to already existing world.

We all are hyping about Tameriel world map and how it is filling up. However at one day when Zenimax will cover all provinces and player finish all storylines, the whole Tameriel will be dead world map.

AlnilamE · July 2017

Xender wrote: »

All TES games for me was kind of single player sandbox. With ESO it is clear that this game is another incarnation of theme park mmo genre. Of course it have beautiful world, few interesting quests (but in average single player TES games are much better). So ESO team, please consider adding some kind of sandbox player to player gameplay style. Maybe staring conflict between guilds and open PVP for those guild? Maybe guild houses which can be upgraded for long time. Kind of guild based PVP. Maybe type of player assassination contracts as part of Dark Brotherhood DLC 2.0? It could be PVP focused DLC: players who tag themselves as participating it this DLC may be tagged as contract objective and then hunt by those who pickup contract? ESO is somewhere between average and good as single player game, and the same as multi player mmo game. Please consider improving online experience, or at least introduce some story content which will be really coop based.

If I feel like getting ganked for no reason (ie, while tending my garden), I go play Black Desert.

You can already challenge any player in ESO to a duel wherever you are. Even in the bank!

Xender wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Xender wrote: »

- Journey: teleporting to dungeon? Wayshrines? Small areas? It is boring. When I think about true RPG adventure I think about going on journey with friends, and then wandering for one or two hours until we reach our destination. Fighting against the odds and dangers. Finally at the destination we may enter to the ancient temple and spend time in "dungeon". It should rewarding and interesting.

So don't use Wayshrines. Go on a journey with your friends and wander for hours - nobody is stopping you.

Go kill some world bosses... go round all the dolmen on foot... there's plenty that will keep you occupied for hours!

Want to fight people? Go to Cyrodiil!

Want to get in a guild and go fight people? Join a PvP guild and do it. There's tons to do, if you want it.

But don't complain that travelling by wayshrines is boring when nobody is forcing you to do it.

A sandbox MMO is basically a themepark MMO, but with all the rides removed.

BDO is a great example of that. It's a big empty world. The devs initially vowed there would be no raids or dungeons because those are "restrictive" to creative gameplay (read: Pearl Abyss is too cheap to create actual content). When PvE players reached endgame, they asked "what now"? Killing random trash mobs, fishing, and trading is only fun for so long. So PA added a dungeon to the game (yes, BDO has one dungeon now, lol). They also have world boss grinding, where you summom a world boss to your location everyday. And that's it. That's PvE endgame in BDO.

Ashes of Creation is going to be much of the same. This is why these indie devs and these Korean P2W devs can churn out MMOs so quickly. They release them devoid of any content.

For all the flack ZOS gets, ESO is probably the most content-rich MMO out there (at least in terms of content quality). Morrowind alone has more content than all of BDO.

Still this content is simplistic and quite dull. As I mentioned earlier it is average single player game and average multi player game. They should focus and polish at least one aspect of their game.

Additionally, BDO styled content allows for combing back to already explored areas and this is what ESO need, combination of PVE story content with sandbox features which will bring new life to already existing world.

We all are hyping about Tameriel world map and how it is filling up. However at one day when Zenimax will cover all provinces and player finish all storylines, the whole Tameriel will be dead world map.

With all the "freedom" in BDO, most players spend their time grinding in only two areas because those are the ones deemed "best XP and silver" in the game and that's what they are after.

There is no reason to go back to the lower level zones, or even to go to some of the higher level areas, because if you are into PvP and want to progress, you will be "wasting your time".

Also, you complained about the world in ESO not changing. At least in some choices you get mobs to become hostile or not. In BDO nothing changes ever. You can do a million quests and nobody will care.

But you could always try it out and see if you like it. The fishing is great!

RainfeatherUK · July 2017

No thanks. Can't stand that pointless game style. Sandbox, eww.

emilyhyoyeon · July 2017

TES isn't inherently sandbox. TES Online isn't a main-series-TES game, not "isn't a TES game." and TES in general isn't sandbox, TES is TES.

although TESO has a few sandbox elements like player housing. I'm not bothered by playing different genres of games of the TES universe

qsnoopyjr · July 2017

I mentioned this with Housing...

Everyone shot me down, telling me how they'd hate open world housing.

If they aint do it with housing, theres NO CHANCE it will ever be sandbox style.

The closest you get to Sandbox MMORPG... EQNEXT.
Which got shut down.
EQNEXT if it didnt get shutdown...
It would be Next Gen MMORPG.

ESO sure as hell nowhere near next gen MMORPG. All the mobs dont even move. Everquest is more lively than ESO. That game is from the 90s.

btw,
I made a thread about improving the game like you want, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4363113#Comment_4363113

the ESO developers would have to utilize machine learning along with big data, which is called Edge Computing. Guess what happened?? Got SHUTDOWN again.

Yall keep contradicting yourselves. Just because you a fanboy of ESO doesnt mean you have to stand on ESO side all the time. When it comes time to improvement, thats when you step aside and agree, instead of beating your chest and saying how awesome ESO is and that I'm wrong.

Xender · July 2017

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

I mentioned this with Housing...

Everyone shot me down, telling me how they'd hate open world housing.

If they aint do it with housing, theres NO CHANCE it will ever be sandbox style.

The closest you get to Sandbox MMORPG... EQNEXT.
Which got shut down.
EQNEXT if it didnt get shutdown...
It would be Next Gen MMORPG.

ESO sure as hell nowhere near next gen MMORPG. All the mobs dont even move. Everquest is more lively than ESO. That game is from the 90s.

btw,
I made a thread about improving the game like you want, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4363113#Comment_4363113

the ESO developers would have to utilize machine learning along with big data, which is called Edge Computing. Guess what happened?? Got SHUTDOWN again.

Yall keep contradicting yourselves. Just because you a fanboy of ESO doesnt mean you have to stand on ESO side all the time. When it comes time to improvement, thats when you step aside and agree, instead of beating your chest and saying how awesome ESO is and that I'm wrong.

Well said, well said...
We wont turn ESO into pure sandbox game, however some living aspects... Reason to return to most liked locations...

Xender · July 2017

The whole point is that, the only online content in this game are dungeons, trials, and PVP on Cryo/IC/BG. The whole "story" PVE content would work better in Creation Engine (Skyrim). Furthermore it is waste of resources and landscapes to not create sandbox "player driven" content which will happen in those areas. Those sandbox features should be addition over existing mechanics and shouldn't alter existing game rules. It should allow new ways of play in already existing areas.

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2017

All I took from a bunch of the OP's comments was that they want open world PvP and are thinly veiling the request behind sandbox... Ew.

Honghua · July 2017

What could you do in skyrim/oblivion that you cant do in ESO online?

Housing? Check
Mounting? Check
Killing npc? Check
Stealing and robbering? check

Xender · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

All I took from a bunch of the OP's comments was that they want open world PvP and are thinly veiling the request behind sandbox... Ew.

Nope, it is one of possibilities but not only one. As I mentioned Zenimax mayintroduce multizone quests/ dungeon adventures etc. Or multi zones PVE caravans.

Regarding robbery... In TES it was permanent, it was more meaningful and difficult in ESO it feels like joke.

BlackSparrow · July 2017

more PvP features =/= sandbox

You're asking for two different, unrelated things. And while I'll agree that I prefer sandbox over theme park games, I'm happy with what One Tamriel did, and don't see much reason to expect more sandbox-ification.

AlnilamE · July 2017

Xender wrote: »

The whole point is that, the only online content in this game are dungeons, trials, and PVP on Cryo/IC/BG. The whole "story" PVE content would work better in Creation Engine (Skyrim). Furthermore it is waste of resources and landscapes to not create sandbox "player driven" content which will happen in those areas. Those sandbox features should be addition over existing mechanics and shouldn't alter existing game rules. It should allow new ways of play in already existing areas.

The thing is, all this "Player driven" content that you are talking about is just PvP.

There are plenty of things that players can do in those zones that you never go back to for whatever reason. And it doesn't involve randomly attacking other players (because you can already duel people anywhere). You just need to use your imagination.

Xender · July 2017

Zone activities:
-Dolmens
-Lore books
-Quests
-Achievements

As soon as you finish this theme park content this is all in zone, nothing repeatable and player driven. NOTHING.

PlagueSD · July 2017

You want a theme park? Go to Disneyland. Leave the game alone.

Remag_Div · July 2017

A lot of people also mean "open world" when they say sandbox even though the definitions are not the same. I confuse them, as well. I think what I meant before was not make the game more sandbox, but more open world. Bigger zones like Cyrodiil but tailored to PvE and questing with an emphasis on exploration and less roads and wayshrines.

Xender · July 2017

Great example to sand box (much better than sick grind BDO) is EVE Online or Wurm Online, still these are drastically different games.

apostate9 · July 2017

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Xender wrote: »

I don't think that developer have to change ESO to true sandbox, but add some sandbox features which will allow to returning to old zones. It is waste of beautiful landscape that there is no point in going back there. I think that kind of open world pvp maybe guild based or Dark Brotherhood based should be good

I dunno, most people dont like pvp in their pve.

Disagree. PvP, the ability to contend with other players for your preferred outcome, is sorta the only way to make a MMO genuinely "sandboxy", in my opinion.

Xender · July 2017

I don't think so that PVP is only solution. As I mentioned earlier multi zone PVE caracans should work as sandbox styled source of money.

Multi zone quest-adeventures....

GreyWolf_79 · July 2017

Personally, I like open world sandbox themeparks. I want to design my own rides, then ride them.

Hluill · July 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

VoodooPlatypus wrote: »

@Xender:

Any suggestions or recommendations for ways to implement features/content/elements that have a sandbox approach without tying it directly to PVP?

Nope.

Every sandbox MMO is a PvP-focused game (see Ark, BDO, Ashes of Creation, etc.). They have repetitive daily PvE quests, but the bulk of the content is PvP. As soon as you introduce structured PvE content, the game ceases to be a sandbox, since you aren't "creating your own adventure" anymore.

A PvE sandbox would be Minecraft.

Huh, my, how the definition for "Sandbox" has changed over the years...