Thoughts from a PvE-only Player during Midyear Mayhem

Banana · July 2017

Im sure it will be our turn again soon.

Feanor · July 2017

If it were not for the lag the large scale battles would actually be fun. Lag is the only reason they're a pain and everyone hates zergs. I remember joining my first siege - it was Black Boot - in 2014. I was completely overwhelmed by all the stuff going on. And it was awesome. Since then I've always loved PvP. It's fun in a way PvE never could be.

ccfeeling · July 2017

For a non-US / EU player , I don't have much fun in PVP , because I have never run smooth in PVP actually .
You know what , the screen must go freeze when zerg vs zerg

(10+ vs 10+)

During PVP event , the PVE world I feel much more laggy , I played about 10 mins last night , ZOS you know , I went to a normal dungeon myself and swap bar took about 2-3 sec.
OK I gave up and logout , TBH I wish the event over early , thanks!

LilySix · July 2017

I've always hated PVP.... Then battlegrounds showed up and i'm just loving it.

Cyro is a pain, I don't like it, too laggy, too many zergs, too many haters...

Mayrael · July 2017

I consider my self as a PvPer (if not dung runing for builds testing im in a Cyro or BG most of the time) and love to see new folks in Cyro. We all used to be rookies when we entered Cyrodiil. First months of spending my time there was a fight to not to die everytime when I meet someone. I was happy when my kill/deaths ratio was 1:1. Now I am almost always runing solo, sometimes I "join" zergs by just runing with them, sometimes they join me but still Im always without group and my usual score after evening in Cyro is arround 80-90 kills, 30-50 killing blows, 10-15 deaths (Im a bit reckless, I like to be in the middle of the fight, charging through breach to drop the oilers of the walls etc.)

Whats the point of my post? Start slowly, run with groups, try different builds, select the one that gives you most fun, and then try to run a bit solo or small scale. You will see that Cyro is not only about Zergs, and there is a lot meaningful work to do for single players to. You can be scout to warn your allies about incoming siege, you can take over resources, you can spread the chaos by igniting important keeps, you can slow down whole zergs if you are skilled tank (sometimes 15s when zerg tries to kill you is enough to your alliance to take over the flags). Be creative! And the most important: never give up!

AtraisMachina · July 2017

I just wish we didnt have to interact. This game literally forces you to play pvp to get nessesary skills for pve. Not to mention the gear and skill balance crossing. I wont go into how i feel about pvp i just wish they were completely separate.

GreenhaloX · July 2017

On a technical part, it kind of blows big time because the Mayhem is causing a lot of lagging and crashing (as well as log in issues), which are also affecting PvE land. On the game play, I could care less. Good for PvPers to have another double AP event. Us PvEers, we also get our double EP event here and there. So, no love lost here for this current PvP only event.

Aisle9 · July 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

As some of you already know, if I were able to design my dream MMO, there would be zero PvP in it. I've played nearly every major MMO since Ultima Online, and I've always hated PvP,. I still do.

Well, it's a game mode, you can stick to yours and not bother with mine.

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Nonetheless, I'm an achievement hound so I decided to give Midyear Mayhem a go. Here are my observations so far:

1. PvE combat does virtually nothing to prepare you for PvP combat. As in every other game, it's an entirely different animal.

You are correct

Rainwhisper wrote: »

2. Knowing my class and skills did mean that, if I didn't die instantly, I could usually stay alive long enough for someone else to kill my attacker. I, on the other hand, stood no chance of getting a kill.

Yes, even though that only matters in Battlegrounds. In Cyrodiil if you just need to tag an enemy (hit once) to get AP and credit for the kill. In BGs you actually need to deliver the killing blow.

Rainwhisper wrote: »

3. It's possible for a player who has no interest in learning PvP-specific mechanics, investing in PvP-specific gear, or leveling PvP-specific skills to still contribute significantly. As a PvE completionist, I have 299 skillpoints. Even though I'm usually either a tank or DPS, and have 100+ skillpoints in crafting, I still had plenty to max out light armor and Resto Staff skills. All I had to do was join a large raid, heal constantly and I was able to do my part, and earn AP, without having to learn how to be a 1337 PvP'er.

Yes, when a high enough number of people stack together, even light attacks counts.

Rainwhisper wrote: »

4. Nearly all of the victories I saw came from overwhelming force. From how it looked to me, PvP in Cyrodiil is about forming as large of a group as possible, communicating effectively, and working as a single unit to overpower smaller forces at various objectives. If the group did not communicate well, or was smaller than the OPFOR, we died. Period.

Yes, which is sad, because large groups also contribute greatly to performances issues and lag, but that's how it works in nature to protect yourself from predators. It's still possible to complete objective with less than 5 people, but it requires to invest more in terms of build, gear, experience and practice.

Rainwhisper wrote: »

5. Most people were very friendly, and actually more eager to communicate than some of the folks in PvE zones (many of whom seem to think they play a single-player game, and some of whom won't group up when they're standing right next to you working on the same quest). I assume that, because collaboration is so crucial to success, effective PvP'ers have to be able to communicate. In PvE that's really only true for end-game content.

You are correct, even though they are less than you'd think

Rainwhisper wrote: »

7. There were some people who clearly take the game way too seriously, and some people who were patently vulgar and rude, but on the whole I didn't find the PvP community to be any more toxic than zone chat in PvE. Some folks obviously didn't like having a PvE-only achievement seeker along for the raid, but most of them went out of their way to be helpful and supportive.

Game modes don't make people rude, sometimes people are just rude because they are

Rainwhisper wrote: »

6. There's a LOT of wasted time, especially if you find yourself in a group that can't collaborate effectively. Also, the human element introduces so many variables into the likelihood of success in a particular task (e.g. capturing a keep).

Yes, that's what most of us find enjoyable

Rainwhisper wrote: »

At the end of the day, PvP still holds no appeal for me. I want to collaborate with, not against, other players. I don't like the playstyle, the downtime, or the possibility of a large zerg ruining twenty minutes worth of work. Nonetheless, I'm very grateful to the PvP players for letting us PvE'ers come play in their sandbox for a bit. You made the experience much, much less painful than it could have been. I still need a few more boxes, and a battelground win, so I'll likely be back a few more times this week. Feel free to wave as you're standing over my corpse.

You are welcome.

SoLooney · July 2017

I am a 99perc a pve only player, I pretty much do pvp only to get skills like vigor and caltrops and the double ap along with that title and laurel hat gave me enough motivation to try it seriously. Turns out I had a blast with my zerg and I was very suprised to have completed the 50 kill achievement for the midyear.
I think pvp is pretty necessary in this game,I dont do it much but im sure plenty do and call it their home

Anne_Firehawk · July 2017

Chadak wrote: »

It disappoints me terribly that the best way to farm AP is to roll around with a zerg. I find that utterly boring...

That is not true at all. Get 3 or 4 friends, take a ressource and farm the *** out of the pugs by kiting in and around the tower. That is the best way to farm AP.

hmsdragonfly · July 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

As some of you already know, if I were able to design my dream MMO, there would be zero PvP in it. I've played nearly every major MMO since Ultima Online, and I've always hated PvP,. I still do.

Nonetheless, I'm an achievement hound so I decided to give Midyear Mayhem a go. Here are my observations so far:

1. PvE combat does virtually nothing to prepare you for PvP combat. As in every other game, it's an entirely different animal.

2. Knowing my class and skills did mean that, if I didn't die instantly, I could usually stay alive long enough for someone else to kill my attacker. I, on the other hand, stood no chance of getting a kill.

3. It's possible for a player who has no interest in learning PvP-specific mechanics, investing in PvP-specific gear, or leveling PvP-specific skills to still contribute significantly. As a PvE completionist, I have 299 skillpoints. Even though I'm usually either a tank or DPS, and have 100+ skillpoints in crafting, I still had plenty to max out light armor and Resto Staff skills. All I had to do was join a large raid, heal constantly and I was able to do my part, and earn AP, without having to learn how to be a 1337 PvP'er.

4. Nearly all of the victories I saw came from overwhelming force. From how it looked to me, PvP in Cyrodiil is about forming as large of a group as possible, communicating effectively, and working as a single unit to overpower smaller forces at various objectives. If the group did not communicate well, or was smaller than the OPFOR, we died. Period.

5. Most people were very friendly, and actually more eager to communicate than some of the folks in PvE zones (many of whom seem to think they play a single-player game, and some of whom won't group up when they're standing right next to you working on the same quest). I assume that, because collaboration is so crucial to success, effective PvP'ers have to be able to communicate. In PvE that's really only true for end-game content.

6. There were some people who clearly take the game way too seriously, and some people who were patently vulgar and rude, but on the whole I didn't find the PvP community to be any more toxic than zone chat in PvE. Some folks obviously didn't like having a PvE-only achievement seeker along for the raid, but most of them went out of their way to be helpful and supportive.

7. There's a LOT of wasted time, especially if you find yourself in a group that can't collaborate effectively. Also, the human element introduces so many variables into the likelihood of success in a particular task (e.g. capturing a keep).

At the end of the day, PvP still holds no appeal for me. I want to collaborate with, not against, other players. I don't like the playstyle, the downtime, or the possibility of a large zerg ruining twenty minutes worth of work. Nonetheless, I'm very grateful to the PvP players for letting us PvE'ers come play in their sandbox for a bit. You made the experience much, much less painful than it could have been. I still need a few more boxes, and a battelground win, so I'll likely be back a few more times this week. Feel free to wave as you're standing over my corpse.

There are a few points I want to give my inputs:

1. What kind of PvE are we talking about? Solo questing, motif farming, dungeons, trial, or vMA? Being good in vMA does prepare you a lot for PvP combat, for other kinds of vMA, yeah true.

2. Is it fair if someone who knows nothing about PvP can instantly perform as well as someone who is good at it and has 4 years of PvP experience? No. Everyone was bad at first, every single one, bút if a person spends effort in learning about it, he will become better and better.

4. I fully agree. As I have stated before, Cyrodiil's desgin was extremely flawed. It could have been much better if Cyrodiil had been designed somewhat similar to Battlefield's Conquest game mode. Now it's all about AOE spamming and destro ult stacking.

7. Yeah the riding lol. Terrible game design right here.

Sixsixsix161 · July 2017

Interesting thread.

I haven't PvP'd yet, and don't know if I will. It sounds interesting, but I'm in the same boat as the OP, PvE only.

Having said that, I put 10 years into WoW, and did the battle grounds there and liked it. My problem is the 1v1 issue in the PvP zone - I don't have the reaction time to figure out what to do when attacked, so I don't even go there. I can do group PvP much better.

What interests me is the continuing issue of PvE set up, and PvP set up, of characters (including armor, spells/abilities, etc.)
This doesn't have to be that way.

I wish some company would develop a game with PvE and PvP, and when you log in, the first question asked of you is, "Do you want to PvE or PvP?"

Separate/different characters, but same abilities/spells, but tweaked differently for PvP. That way, an update for one, wouldn't necessarily an update for the other. Making a slight change to a PvP ability would leave the same ability in PvE untouched.

I know a lot of you are going to react negatively to this, but think about it. You do PvE or PvP, and that's all you have to worry about. No worry about how many sets (and what type) of armor/staffs/swords/etc. you need, and what you need it for. You would level a character in one or the other.

But, it's probably to expensive for a company to do that. They would have to do a lot of publicity before going forward with making the game, so see what the reaction of the players would be.

danno8 · July 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

If you think to win you need big numbers you have no *** clue about what you trying to explain, really.

A group of 4 very good players can wipe groups of 10, I've wiped groups of +12 players with just another player and my guild easily wipe two zergs from different alliances at the same time with a group of 10-12 (with godlike players).

A solo player can manage to kill 2-9 players by his own.

PvP is about skill, my bad, it used to be about skill, when proc set stack, perma heal, perma block and aoe caps gets removed it will maybe go back to skill based.

The first part of your post talks about how skill wins the day regardless of numbers, then your last sentence counters your whole post saying that skill is not a factor anymore?

idk · July 2017

There is a reason larger MMOs have PvP included. The OPs points sound more like lack of experience with PvP which he seems to allude to that lack of experience himself.

TheRealPotoroo · July 2017

Aisle9 wrote: »

Rainwhisper wrote: »

As some of you already know, if I were able to design my dream MMO, there would be zero PvP in it. I've played nearly every major MMO since Ultima Online, and I've always hated PvP,. I still do.

Well, it's a game mode, you can stick to yours and not bother with mine.

Unfortunately, that's not true. If it were there would much less aggro in the game and the forums. However, the devs decided to mix PvE and PvP in Cyrodiil and IC which just causes grief.

Yes, even though that only matters in Battlegrounds. In Cyrodiil if you just need to tag an enemy (hit once) to get AP and credit for the kill. In BGs you actually need to deliver the killing blow.

For the event you must get 50 killing blows even in Cyrodiil. If you're the wrong build, like my tank, it's a nightmare.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · July 2017

The key isn't always overwhelming force. A well coordinated group can destroy an enemy force that out numbers them 2 to 1. As someone said, TS or discord is a must.

The good thing about PvP in this game is you really don't need to do it to succeed in PvE. Personally PvP is my thing but I enjoy PvE from time to time.

rotaugen454 · July 2017

I mostly PvE, but have really enjoyed most of getting back into PvP to get all 10 characters leveled in Assault. I'd do more PvP if the XP was closer to PvE or I had every skill I would want maxed on all characters and I had all the sets I wanted. Someday I'll get there and will divide my time more evenly.

Neoauspex · July 2017

I second @Mayrael 's comment, definitely try small scale in Cyro before passing final judgement on PvP. Get a group of 3 to 6, buy a lot of siege (good siege, don't be cheap... rams and camps), and then open the map and look around! I have a lot more fun when my goal is to affect the alliance war rather than to earn AP.

A lot of times zergs (and zerg surfers) will get in the habit of farming themselves, i.e. fighting the same 10 people at a keep over and over without sieging it, or running to a choke point like Allesia bridge, rinse, repeat. Instead of joining the former, run around to the quiet side of the keep and set up siege. Instead of the latter, go around the choke point and take the outpost. One of the major things that affects success in Cyro is the time it takes to get somewhere (and this is especially obvious if you run with a zerg and die at another zerg repeatedly). But this fact also makes behind-enemy-lines black ops stuff possible, and useful. Use it to your advantage.

Also, don't give up on PvP before you try Imperial City. You can get a lot better at it by practicing in small scale, and you can sneak around and do PvE and pick your battles.

Rainwhisper · July 2017

ofSunhold wrote: »

And knowing your aversion to the whole scene, dead impressed you went and did it anyway.

Thank you! I felt like I needed to give it a fair shake, and try to approach it without preconceived notions.

FancyKale · July 2017

Balgost wrote: »

I enjoy PVE about 99.9% of the time. I ducked in to PVP solo to see what I could from the Midyear Mayhem. I was promptly ganked and teabagged by a 6+ group as I stumbled around trying to figure out what my next objective was. That made up my .1% PVP.

I was in hopes ESO PVP (with 3 factions) was like GW2 WvWvW. Maybe it is, but didn't stick around any longer to find out. One day I'll study up and group...maybe

It's exactly like WvWvW in Guild Wars 2, but the siege and capturing mechanics in ESO are way better imo

Xvorg · July 2017

Chadak wrote: »

It disappoints me terribly that the best way to farm AP is to roll around with a zerg. I find that utterly boring.

I got everything I wanted. I'll never touch pvp again accordingly, because even after giving it the ol' college try...I'm reinforced in my initial suspicions and I have all new, firsthand experiential reasons to feel that its just not where I'll ever enjoy myself.

So, my thoughts on this event are this: Its almost irrelevant to me.

If its the cause of all the server instability, then its relevant to me in a purely negative fashion.

Ive got 500k AP during the event running solo. On a small scake group I could have got even moar