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Please consider adding some kind of more "sandbox" experience than "theme park" experience to ESO.
Xender
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All TES games for me was kind of single player sandbox. With ESO it is clear that this game is another incarnation of theme park mmo genre. Of course it have beautiful world, few interesting quests (but in average single player TES games are much better). So ESO team, please consider adding some kind of sandbox player to player gameplay style. Maybe staring conflict between guilds and open PVP for those guild? Maybe guild houses which can be upgraded for long time. Kind of guild based PVP. Maybe type of player assassination contracts as part of Dark Brotherhood DLC 2.0? It could be PVP focused DLC: players who tag themselves as participating it this DLC may be tagged as contract objective and then hunt by those who pickup contract? ESO is somewhere between average and good as single player game, and the same as multi player mmo game. Please consider improving online experience, or at least introduce some story content which will be really coop based.
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Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭/signed x1000
When I started playing during PC beta and early access, the most re-occurring thought for me was "this is not an Elder Scrolls game" and the lame theme park design was one of the big reasons for this.
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Xender✭✭I am sure that they wont change it fully into sandbox. This is casual game, and even based on Hero engine. However there are possibilities to make from it great mixture of theme park and TES based snadbox sauce.1
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Euant✭✭✭How do you propose, with details, ESO have any sandbox additions? I'm interested to see how you plan to make sandbox additions work in an MMO.2
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MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Battlespire.
Redguard.
There, see, not all TES games are Sandboxes. The major chapters, yes. But that's not what those games are, nor what ESO is.
One Tamriel already did plenty to hose the excellent (but yes, linear) storytelling of the game. As someone who loves the storytelling of this game more than any other single aspect of it, please don't try to take even more of that away from me than has already been taken."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle9 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sandboxes are fun for those looking for that experience. But thats a very small demographic. The vast majority of MMO players are looking for Theme Park experiences. Dungeons, Delves and Dolmens are like rides. You just keep hopping on and going round and round. A sandbox would not keep the attention of anyone visiting the Park for the new Morrowind Kingdom or OrsiniumLand experiences.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax3 -
Xender✭✭Well, to be honest there is much more sense in wandering around in TES Morrowind or Skyrim than in ESO. There is only linear progression through really average story line. My idea is to not totally changing this game but to add some sandbox additions, which will be optional. Like open world bounty hunting based PVP or Dark brotherhood based PVP.
Consider this:
The world w TES and ESO is beautiful and really well designed. It is sad and totally waste of resource to not use these lands again. In typical theme park, when you "clean" area there is no reason for coming back. However developers may add some kind of contents locations like guild owned mines, factories, etc. A little bit more advanced economics, transport carts. There is a lot things which may make things in world more reusable and living.
One of the most broken things in ESO is that there are no real choices in quests and stories. There are no branching, there are no possibility to finish quest by breaking it. If there are multiple choices in dialog like paying intimidating etc. there is no real difference in further gameplay based on this. If they want compete with typical single player story telling, they must improve it.Edited by Xender on July 23, 2017 8:52PM4 -
Xender✭✭Bethesda, Zenimax Online please give me reasons to get back to Vvanderfell after I finish the Morrowind story line, please....!
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Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In order for true sandbox to work the game world and gameplay mechanics must be designed with this in mind. Since they did not go this direction I don't think you will see anything that will give you what you are asking for.
As much as I myself also like a sandbox experience, I do like ESO for what it is. Sandbox MMOs just don't do well like they used to.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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Xender✭✭I don't think that developer have to change ESO to true sandbox, but add some sandbox features which will allow to returning to old zones. It is waste of beautiful landscape that there is no point in going back there. I think that kind of open world pvp maybe guild based or Dark Brotherhood based should be good
Edited by Xender on July 25, 2017 7:49AM1 -
Remag_Div✭✭✭✭✭While I don't agree with your particular examples in the OP, I do wholeheartedly agree on this game needing more sandbox and less themepark. I enjoy ESO a lot but it's not sandbox-y enough for a franchise that is defined by its sandbox nature. I can only assume ZOS played it a bit safe in that regard and of course it would have drove up development time and cost, so they opted for zones but made them large enough to feel open. However, this means the end game is not as diverse as say, Black Desert Online. You really only have a themepark endgame where you run group dungeons and trials to get BIS gear or PvP, and since the endgame is heavily defined by RNG, it just becomes a boring grindfest running the same content over and over and over again. With a game like BDO being sandbox, the end game is really whatever you want. Questing, PvP, fishing, crafting, hunting, farming, etc. I think my perfect game would be the sandbox world of BDO but with an Elder Scrolls coating.
Cyrodiil is the best case of a sandbox mechanic, however it's also very empty and bland since it's designed for large scale PvP. Perhaps more zones with the scale and openness of Cyrodill tailored to PvE zones is what's needed. Less roads and wayshrines and more wilderness to explore. Of course this takes way more manpower to accomplish so it's not like ZOS can crank out big zones like this with high quality content like the single player TES games. Perhaps designate this for the yearly Chapters?
Edited by Remag_Div on July 25, 2017 8:04AM2 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe in ESO 2 we'll have a more traditional "sandbox" experience."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
VoodooPlatypus✭✭✭✭@Xender:
Any suggestions or recommendations for ways to implement features/content/elements that have a sandbox approach without tying it directly to PVP?4 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't think that developer have to change ESO to true sandbox, but add some sandbox features which will allow to returning to old zones. It is waste of beautiful landscape that there is no point in going back there. I think that kind of open world pvp maybe guild based or Dark Brotherhood based should be good
I dunno, most people dont like pvp in their pve.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on July 25, 2017 8:23AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I hate sandbox games. It's why I play ESO instead of BDO, Ark, and others.
Sandbox games represent what's wrong with gaming today. Devs release an empty world (minimum effort and investment on their part) and tell the players to "create their own adventure". The fun lasts for a few weeks, then you uninstall.
I prefer games with actual content.
By the way, single player TES games are not sandbox. They're just open world. A sandbox is a game that doesn't have a central objective, quests, etc. or if it does, they're very loosely structured (they have stuff like repetitive daily quests or procedurally generated enemies).Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 25, 2017 8:45AM5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VoodooPlatypus wrote: »@Xender:
Any suggestions or recommendations for ways to implement features/content/elements that have a sandbox approach without tying it directly to PVP?
Nope.
Every sandbox MMO is a PvP-focused game (see Ark, BDO, Ashes of Creation, etc.). They have repetitive daily PvE quests, but the bulk of the content is PvP. As soon as you introduce structured PvE content, the game ceases to be a sandbox, since you aren't "creating your own adventure" anymore.
A PvE sandbox would be Minecraft.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 25, 2017 8:45AM1 -
VoodooPlatypus✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »By the way, single player TES games are not sandbox. They're just open world. A sandbox is a game that doesn't have a central objective, quests, etc. or if it does, they're very loosely structured (they have stuff like repetitive daily quests or procedurally generated enemies).
Maybe the OP didn't realize there was a difference between "open world" and "sandbox." I don't think I really recognized the difference between the two terms and had never been asked to define them. Of course I also enjoy the rides in the "theme park."
Oh, and definitely this:MLGProPlayer wrote: »
I prefer games with actual content.2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I think Cryodiil should be more sandbox, it has everything it needs to be a great sandbox warzone of epic tales.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd like to go back to "Vvanderfell" as well.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Marto✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sandbox features in MMOs are notorious for being extremely buggy, unbalanced, non-sensical, and not fun for the majority.
I'd rather not take the risk."According to the calculations of the sages of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the batam guar is the cutest creature in all Tamriel"0 -
Xender✭✭Honestly definitions like theme park, sand box and open world are quite fuzzy.
Ark Survival Evolved is not a mmo...
Sandbox, good sandbox aren't empty and dull. Black Desert is example of really well designed sandbox, still it is significantly different game and "sandbox" parts in ESO should works differently.
When I think about true sandbox, I think about few things:
- Journey: teleporting to dungeon? Wayshrines? Small areas? It is boring. When I think about true RPG adventure I think about going on journey with friends, and then wandering for one or two hours until we reach our destination. Fighting against the odds and dangers. Finally at the destination we may enter to the ancient temple and spend time in "dungeon". It should rewarding and interesting.
- Caravans: Guilds should be able to organize caravans which need to be transported from one side of Tameriel to another. During the journey the caravan may be attack by powerful monster and destroyed.
- Multi location, distributed quest-dungeons: type of multistage dungeon design. Firstly players need to travel across Tamariel and enter several locations, public dungeons and delves. They need to collect certain items like keys or artifacts. They may have to participate in certain events like protecting the fort or camp or something other, it should be somehow randomized. Finally players may depart for final location and they team participate in final adventure. It may be designed for few hours or even few days of gameplay. In my opinion it is synonymous of true RPG adventure.
How it looks now? Simple stupid repeatable dungeons. Ugly generic quest and few average-good main story quests, which basically are superbly simple: "go to locations, pickup/activate/leave item or kill/talk to NPC. You even don''t have to read quests or quest log hints how to finish it... Whats more during the quest you may look on a map and other quests markers and you may finish few another quests in near location even not knowing which quests was which. It is like bullet point list, you have quest and you are marking finished in automatic manner. This is good for hack and slash not for RPG.2 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Sandboxes are fun for those looking for that experience. But thats a very small demographic. The vast majority of MMO players are looking for Theme Park experiences. Dungeons, Delves and Dolmens are like rides. You just keep hopping on and going round and round. A sandbox would not keep the attention of anyone visiting the Park for the new Morrowind Kingdom or OrsiniumLand experiences.
well a good suggestion is the one mentioned in the original Post
guild houses and guild wars
maybe introduce a instanced guild house (available to purchase with in game gold when a guild reaches X members) PvP can be activated under house settings (so non PvP guilds can still have guild specific housing)0 -
Xender✭✭I think the most important thing is to add gamplay which will involve returning to already existing locations.
There one universal true about theme park: developer never are fast enough to provide new zones and pve content fast enough. The only chance for it is to create repeatable sandbox gameplay in those zones.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am all for adding more sandbox experience, but what do you do in Skyrim that you can't do here in ESO?Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Xender✭✭No offence, but I think @Xender that you are looking for another game. Check out Ashes of Creation that's probably the game that will please most what you are seaking for.
Sadly it is still in development.
Regarding what I can do in TES that I can't in ESO? Here is is:
- From time to time quests was difficult. I need to load save, repeat brotherhood contract etc.
- In ESO you clearly have feeling of quest hubs which you complete on after another. In TES you feel like you in the vast open world.
- Even the engine, combat and whole feeling of gameplay was more open. Dungeons was less linear, was more advanced and interesting. ESO feels generic.
A little bit of sandbox sauce will only help and make this game more vibrant and living. Honestly, SWTOR based on the same Hero Engine had better location design and story. Quest was more interesting and generally it was better as single player game: Bioware > Zenimax Online. However hey screwed with combat system. I hate sticky target with skill sequences.0 -
Xender✭✭I would say that my suggestion was quite accurate before :DDD :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171982/eso-should-allow-for-cross-faction-pve-dungeons/p10 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sounds like you want a huge open world with no wayshrines or map portals where it takes 2 hours to get anywhere and with open world PVP
Uh..no thanksBeta tester November 20130 -
Xender✭✭Not at all, however some kind of multi-zone quests/adventures for parties.As I mention in previous post.
Katahdin, I would ask you: What are you doing in ESO? After finishing story lines quests, you have only Cyrodil PVP, battleground and dungeons/trials. There is no real gameplay which allow you to return to your favourite Tamariel locations and what is extremely sad, probably there will be nothing new which in ESO lifetime which will bring you back there. There is huge opportunity to Zenimax to reuse existing locations and make money on it again, but rather by creating average story content they may create more open-ended gameplay which will utilize these locations.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭- Journey: teleporting to dungeon? Wayshrines? Small areas? It is boring. When I think about true RPG adventure I think about going on journey with friends, and then wandering for one or two hours until we reach our destination. Fighting against the odds and dangers. Finally at the destination we may enter to the ancient temple and spend time in "dungeon". It should rewarding and interesting.
So don't use Wayshrines. Go on a journey with your friends and wander for hours - nobody is stopping you.
Go kill some world bosses... go round all the dolmen on foot... there's plenty that will keep you occupied for hours!
Want to fight people? Go to Cyrodiil!
Want to get in a guild and go fight people? Join a PvP guild and do it. There's tons to do, if you want it.
But don't complain that travelling by wayshrines is boring when nobody is forcing you to do it.
Edited by I_killed_Vivec on July 25, 2017 5:39PM0
