A quick question about battlegrounds

BlueRaven · July 2017

Hi,

I don't normally do battle grounds as I tend to avoid this type of pop (I like siege weapons). So me and 3 friends are queuing up for battle grounds and we are getting flattened by teams that seem both highly experienced and organized. (We are not, we are pretty casual.)

So the question is, Are battle grounds rated? Will we ever fight a groups that are at our beginner levels? Because this is not an enjoyable experience.

Thanks!

j3crow · July 2017

Unfortunately, the group finder does not differentiate between premade groups and solo players. Its a problem with this kind of format, that just about every other title that ever launched small scale PvP has contended with. For the life of me, I don't understand why ZoS failed to account for this.

BlueRaven · July 2017

OK we have given up queuing with each other. We are hoping that playing as singles will be better. So far the bfs have been pretty awful experience for us

In one match (capture the flag) one group camped our spawn point and let the other team just rack up the points to get an easy win.

This is probably the worst experience we've had in this game.

BlueRaven · July 2017

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hi,

I don't normally do battle grounds as I tend to avoid this type of pop (I like siege weapons). So me and 3 friends are queuing up for battle grounds and we are getting flattened by teams that seem both highly experienced and organized. (We are not, we are pretty casual.)

So the question is, Are battle grounds rated? Will we ever fight a groups that are at our beginner levels? Because this is not an enjoyable experience.

Thanks!

Yeah. I have to say this is very depressing. We wanted to get a win together.

dpencil1 · July 2017

As per ZOS's statements on the matter, the game will attempt to pair pre-made groups with other pre-made groups. Only if this fails after a period of time will the group be pitted against players in the solo que. There are no ratings in place for individuals or groups at this point. There will be a 10-49 que added soon (which will exclude max level players).

BlueRaven · July 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

As per ZOS's statements on the matter, the game will attempt to pair pre-made groups with other pre-made groups. Only if this fails after a period of time will the group be pitted against players in the solo que. There are no ratings in place for individuals or groups at this point. There will be a 10-49 que added soon (which will exclude max level players).

Ok. Thanks.

Aisle9 · July 2017

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hi,

I don't normally do battle grounds as I tend to avoid this type of pop (I like siege weapons). So me and 3 friends are queuing up for battle grounds and we are getting flattened by teams that seem both highly experienced and organized. (We are not, we are pretty casual.)

So the question is, Are battle grounds rated? Will we ever fight a groups that are at our beginner levels? Because this is not an enjoyable experience.

Thanks!

No, they are not, and if Group Finder is any indication, they won't be in the future.

I'm going to give you some advice to make the experience less hurtful.

Based on my observation and my experience with PvP in different games, I saw 4 tiers of BG groups:

1) Ultra Casual (Pug or Premade), they come from PvE backgrounds and don't have specialized builds or experience in PvP, they usually run PvE builds, almost completely ineffective in BGs, and it's quite easy to single out players and kill them one by one.

2) Experienced Casual (Pug or Premade), they have experience in PvP and can understand basic principles, like wearing armor with impenetrable trait to avoid crits, or to break free from CC to get CC immunity, but they're not really organized, they don't have synergized builds, and they tend to just "do their thing" as in going around like it was open world cyrodiil, but they're also not exceptionally skilled, so they are also quite easy to single out and kill.

3) Experienced PvP players (usually Premades, rarely Pugs) they are capable of synergize builds and very skilled in killing opponents, run interference or complete objectives. They understand how the BGs works and are usually capable of easily winning against less skilled opponents. They may or may not use discord or TS. Voice communication and basic organization makes them quite difficult to kill.

4) BG Premades (Premades only), they have synergized builds, with as many buffs as possible, they most likely have a dedicated healbot and a CC machinem usually a DK. They buff each other, protect each other, and usually move together. It's easy to recognize them, especially in TDM (Team Deathmatch). Almost impossible to kill without an equally organized group or specific tactics to counter their plays.

Here's what you can do:

1) Have at least 2 people in your group run Light's Champion (Panacea morph, restoration ultimate, usually referred to as Resto Ulti) and cycle it. It's very cheap and very effective, if you can keep it up consistently, it will give enormous survivability. Cycle it means have someone cast it, wait at least 10 to 15 seconds, than cast it again. Nightblades have very good ultimate generation, while sorcs have reduced cost. Either way it should be up fairly consistently.

2) Have at least one person in your group running Wizard's Riposte, it's a magicka set that applies minor maim to whomever attacks the wearer. Resto ulti + wizard means 30% damage reduction and 15% less damage opponents deal, pretty powerful combo.

3) Use Discord and move as a group. If you get wiped, wait for everyone to respawn before jumping down.

4) Make some PvP gear with Impenetrable trait, see what's hot right now as far as sets go. Contrary to popular belief, PvP gear, with some exceptions, can be quite cheap and easily crafted.

5) Don't run all the same classes, and don't worry about a dedicated healer, you can't heal in PvP the same way you heal in PvE, but you want some diversity. For example, a DK can CC people in place while a magsorc drops his destro ultimate. See what works for you. Have at least one or 2 heavy hitters, people capable of killing reliably, and one support makes everything easier.

6) Learn to play the objectives. CTF and Domination can be won with 2.5k+ points and 0 kills.

7) If you have to kill someone, make sure to focus one at the time, and go to another after that one is dead. If you can determine which one is the squishiest, go for that one first.

8) Last but not least, make sure you have mobility. Have at least one source of major expedition (roll dodge with bow passive, double take) or a gap closer or dash ability (streak, toppling charge, invasion, crit charge, ambush). Also make sure you have access to either immovability potions, full momentum, shuffle, or just enough stamina to roll dodge, to get rid of roots and soft CCs.

Hope this helps.

PS - You can read all the guides you want, watch all the videos, and get the best gear and builds, but, in the end, only experience can save you, and death is a great teacher. Make sure, every time you die, to open the death recap and see what killed you. Also, pay attention to what put you on the spot that moment, like, not being able to move due to roots, or not being able to counter play the nightblade's cloak, getting separated and singled out. Most of all, if you like the game, keep at it. At first can be frustrating, but in time you learn the mechanics and learn the counter plays.

BlueRaven · July 2017

Aisle9 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hi,

I don't normally do battle grounds as I tend to avoid this type of pop (I like siege weapons). So me and 3 friends are queuing up for battle grounds and we are getting flattened by teams that seem both highly experienced and organized. (We are not, we are pretty casual.)

So the question is, Are battle grounds rated? Will we ever fight a groups that are at our beginner levels? Because this is not an enjoyable experience.

Thanks!

No, they are not, and if Group Finder is any indication, they won't be in the future.

I'm going to give you some advice to make the experience less hurtful.

Based on my observation and my experience with PvP in different games, I saw 4 tiers of BG groups:

1) Ultra Casual (Pug or Premade), they come from PvE backgrounds and don't have specialized builds or experience in PvP, they usually run PvE builds, almost completely ineffective in BGs, and it's quite easy to single out players and kill them one by one.

2) Experienced Casual (Pug or Premade), they have experience in PvP and can understand basic principles, like wearing armor with impenetrable trait to avoid crits, or to break free from CC to get CC immunity, but they're not really organized, they don't have synergized builds, and they tend to just "do their thing" as in going around like it was open world cyrodiil, but they're also not exceptionally skilled, so they are also quite easy to single out and kill.

3) Experienced PvP players (usually Premades, rarely Pugs) they are capable of synergize builds and very skilled in killing opponents, run interference or complete objectives. They understand how the BGs works and are usually capable of easily winning against less skilled opponents. They may or may not use discord or TS. Voice communication and basic organization makes them quite difficult to kill.

4) BG Premades (Premades only), they have synergized builds, with as many buffs as possible, they most likely have a dedicated healbot and a CC machinem usually a DK. They buff each other, protect each other, and usually move together. It's easy to recognize them, especially in TDM (Team Deathmatch). Almost impossible to kill without an equally organized group or specific tactics to counter their plays.

Here's what you can do:

1) Have at least 2 people in your group run Light's Champion (Panacea morph, restoration ultimate, usually referred to as Resto Ulti) and cycle it. It's very cheap and very effective, if you can keep it up consistently, it will give enormous survivability. Cycle it means have someone cast it, wait at least 10 to 15 seconds, than cast it again. Nightblades have very good ultimate generation, while sorcs have reduced cost. Either way it should be up fairly consistently.

2) Have at least one person in your group running Wizard's Riposte, it's a magicka set that applies minor maim to whomever attacks the wearer. Resto ulti + wizard means 30% damage reduction and 15% less damage opponents deal, pretty powerful combo.

3) Use Discord and move as a group. If you get wiped, wait for everyone to respawn before jumping down.

4) Make some PvP gear with Impenetrable trait, see what's hot right now as far as sets go. Contrary to popular belief, PvP gear, with some exceptions, can be quite cheap and easily crafted.

5) Don't run all the same classes, and don't worry about a dedicated healer, you can't heal in PvP the same way you heal in PvE, but you want some diversity. For example, a DK can CC people in place while a magsorc drops his destro ultimate. See what works for you. Have at least one or 2 heavy hitters, people capable of killing reliably, and one support makes everything easier.

6) Learn to play the objectives. CTF and Domination can be won with 2.5k+ points and 0 kills.

7) If you have to kill someone, make sure to focus one at the time, and go to another after that one is dead. If you can determine which one is the squishiest, go for that one first.

8) Last but not least, make sure you have mobility. Have at least one source of major expedition (roll dodge with bow passive, double take) or a gap closer or dash ability (streak, toppling charge, invasion, crit charge, ambush). Also make sure you have access to either immovability potions, full momentum, shuffle, or just enough stamina to roll dodge, to get rid of roots and soft CCs.

Hope this helps.

PS - You can read all the guides you want, watch all the videos, and get the best gear and builds, but, in the end, only experience can save you, and death is a great teacher. Make sure, every time you die, to open the death recap and see what killed you. Also, pay attention to what put you on the spot that moment, like, not being able to move due to roots, or not being able to counter play the nightblade's cloak, getting separated and singled out. Most of all, if you like the game, keep at it. At first can be frustrating, but in time you learn the mechanics and learn the counter plays.

Ok so here is my experiences queuing as a single player. I was in a deathmatch with a team that was obviously very well organized with 2 healers. And the other team that hardly ever jumped down from their ledge. Result super easy win for the organized team.

Then I played a capture the flag with a team that camped our spawn location and another that just kept scoring (luckily this was a short match).

And another deathmatch team that for the first 3 minutes was a 4 on 4 on 2 with my team being the 2.

I am not sure if any of these strategies would have helped me.

Bgs to me, seem HIGHLY exploitable. I am not sure how this is supposed to be fun.

IcyDeadPeople · July 2017

j3crow wrote: »

Unfortunately, the group finder does not differentiate between premade groups and solo players. Its a problem with this kind of format, that just about every other title that ever launched small scale PvP has contended with. For the life of me, I don't understand why ZoS failed to account for this.

If I recall correctly from the ESO Live video explaining how battlegrounds matchmaking system works, it does first try to match people with similar skill level /character level and separate premade from solo, then if there are not enough options available it expands to wider search criteria.

So far, I don't believe the developers have explained the details of how this works in terms of whether skill level has to do with KDR, leaderboard rankings, or medals earned etc.

At any rate I have noticed teams tend to be a bit more evenly matched when there are a lot of people queuing for battlegrounds. When there are not many people queued they seem to be less evenly matched or sometimes not even full 4v4v4 teams.

BlueRaven wrote: »

So me and 3 friends are queuing up for battle grounds and we are getting flattened by teams that seem both highly experienced and organized. (We are not, we are pretty casual.)

The system tries to match premades with other premade teams, and in BG among the (relatively small) pool of premade teams you will find more of them using voice chat, focus firing people, coordinated builds etc., compared to the pool of solo players. You guys might have an easier time finding more even matches by queueing as solo players instead of in a premade team of 4.

HeathenDeacon · July 2017

TBH the matchmaking seems to be spot on for me on ps4.
i'm guessing i win about 1 out of 3 games as i should if there is proper mmr.
i've defintiely noticed a pattern when solo queuing that i'll get a team of 630s one game then some lower levels then next.

i dunno, for the most part it was the same people in the top 25-50 i'd see every game until the pvp event started and now there seems to be alot more new players queuing in the last few days.

HorrorShow · July 2017

How about the battleground not showing type until the match starts? Can't choose what kind of matches I que for and I cannot even leave at the start if it is one I don't like in the hopes my team would get a backfill.

BlueRaven · July 2017

I almost want to continue documenting this unending parade of completely lopsided bgs. I honestly don't understand this system. How can a deathmatch even start if a team has less then 4 people in it? How does this system even let us in the arena? (Yes I again got into a 4v4v3 match. This time we were only 3 for the entire match.)

I hate these bgs with an unending rage. It seems basically a system designed to frustrate with 7 minute que intervals.

Aisle9 · July 2017

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hi,

I don't normally do battle grounds as I tend to avoid this type of pop (I like siege weapons). So me and 3 friends are queuing up for battle grounds and we are getting flattened by teams that seem both highly experienced and organized. (We are not, we are pretty casual.)

So the question is, Are battle grounds rated? Will we ever fight a groups that are at our beginner levels? Because this is not an enjoyable experience.

Thanks!

No, they are not, and if Group Finder is any indication, they won't be in the future.

I'm going to give you some advice to make the experience less hurtful.

Based on my observation and my experience with PvP in different games, I saw 4 tiers of BG groups:

1) Ultra Casual (Pug or Premade), they come from PvE backgrounds and don't have specialized builds or experience in PvP, they usually run PvE builds, almost completely ineffective in BGs, and it's quite easy to single out players and kill them one by one.

2) Experienced Casual (Pug or Premade), they have experience in PvP and can understand basic principles, like wearing armor with impenetrable trait to avoid crits, or to break free from CC to get CC immunity, but they're not really organized, they don't have synergized builds, and they tend to just "do their thing" as in going around like it was open world cyrodiil, but they're also not exceptionally skilled, so they are also quite easy to single out and kill.

3) Experienced PvP players (usually Premades, rarely Pugs) they are capable of synergize builds and very skilled in killing opponents, run interference or complete objectives. They understand how the BGs works and are usually capable of easily winning against less skilled opponents. They may or may not use discord or TS. Voice communication and basic organization makes them quite difficult to kill.

4) BG Premades (Premades only), they have synergized builds, with as many buffs as possible, they most likely have a dedicated healbot and a CC machinem usually a DK. They buff each other, protect each other, and usually move together. It's easy to recognize them, especially in TDM (Team Deathmatch). Almost impossible to kill without an equally organized group or specific tactics to counter their plays.

Here's what you can do:

1) Have at least 2 people in your group run Light's Champion (Panacea morph, restoration ultimate, usually referred to as Resto Ulti) and cycle it. It's very cheap and very effective, if you can keep it up consistently, it will give enormous survivability. Cycle it means have someone cast it, wait at least 10 to 15 seconds, than cast it again. Nightblades have very good ultimate generation, while sorcs have reduced cost. Either way it should be up fairly consistently.

2) Have at least one person in your group running Wizard's Riposte, it's a magicka set that applies minor maim to whomever attacks the wearer. Resto ulti + wizard means 30% damage reduction and 15% less damage opponents deal, pretty powerful combo.

3) Use Discord and move as a group. If you get wiped, wait for everyone to respawn before jumping down.

4) Make some PvP gear with Impenetrable trait, see what's hot right now as far as sets go. Contrary to popular belief, PvP gear, with some exceptions, can be quite cheap and easily crafted.

5) Don't run all the same classes, and don't worry about a dedicated healer, you can't heal in PvP the same way you heal in PvE, but you want some diversity. For example, a DK can CC people in place while a magsorc drops his destro ultimate. See what works for you. Have at least one or 2 heavy hitters, people capable of killing reliably, and one support makes everything easier.

6) Learn to play the objectives. CTF and Domination can be won with 2.5k+ points and 0 kills.

7) If you have to kill someone, make sure to focus one at the time, and go to another after that one is dead. If you can determine which one is the squishiest, go for that one first.

8) Last but not least, make sure you have mobility. Have at least one source of major expedition (roll dodge with bow passive, double take) or a gap closer or dash ability (streak, toppling charge, invasion, crit charge, ambush). Also make sure you have access to either immovability potions, full momentum, shuffle, or just enough stamina to roll dodge, to get rid of roots and soft CCs.

Hope this helps.

PS - You can read all the guides you want, watch all the videos, and get the best gear and builds, but, in the end, only experience can save you, and death is a great teacher. Make sure, every time you die, to open the death recap and see what killed you. Also, pay attention to what put you on the spot that moment, like, not being able to move due to roots, or not being able to counter play the nightblade's cloak, getting separated and singled out. Most of all, if you like the game, keep at it. At first can be frustrating, but in time you learn the mechanics and learn the counter plays.

Ok so here is my experiences queuing as a single player. I was in a deathmatch with a team that was obviously very well organized with 2 healers. And the other team that hardly ever jumped down from their ledge. Result super easy win for the organized team.

Then I played a capture the flag with a team that camped our spawn location and another that just kept scoring (luckily this was a short match).

And another deathmatch team that for the first 3 minutes was a 4 on 4 on 2 with my team being the 2.

I am not sure if any of these strategies would have helped me.

Bgs to me, seem HIGHLY exploitable. I am not sure how this is supposed to be fun.

Yes, they can be, but I can also tell you that just by cycling Light's Champion you will have incredible mitigation.

We ended up in a deathmatch yesterday, against a very organized premade with destro ultis, ended up with 0 deaths and a truckload of kills.

We were using 3 Resto Ultis and keeping it up almost 100%.

30% damage reduction is huge, don't scoff at it.

Of course, we were also running PvP builds, and we had some experience in teamwork.

BlueRaven · July 2017

Aisle9 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hi,

I don't normally do battle grounds as I tend to avoid this type of pop (I like siege weapons). So me and 3 friends are queuing up for battle grounds and we are getting flattened by teams that seem both highly experienced and organized. (We are not, we are pretty casual.)

So the question is, Are battle grounds rated? Will we ever fight a groups that are at our beginner levels? Because this is not an enjoyable experience.

Thanks!

No, they are not, and if Group Finder is any indication, they won't be in the future.

I'm going to give you some advice to make the experience less hurtful.

Based on my observation and my experience with PvP in different games, I saw 4 tiers of BG groups:

1) Ultra Casual (Pug or Premade), they come from PvE backgrounds and don't have specialized builds or experience in PvP, they usually run PvE builds, almost completely ineffective in BGs, and it's quite easy to single out players and kill them one by one.

2) Experienced Casual (Pug or Premade), they have experience in PvP and can understand basic principles, like wearing armor with impenetrable trait to avoid crits, or to break free from CC to get CC immunity, but they're not really organized, they don't have synergized builds, and they tend to just "do their thing" as in going around like it was open world cyrodiil, but they're also not exceptionally skilled, so they are also quite easy to single out and kill.

3) Experienced PvP players (usually Premades, rarely Pugs) they are capable of synergize builds and very skilled in killing opponents, run interference or complete objectives. They understand how the BGs works and are usually capable of easily winning against less skilled opponents. They may or may not use discord or TS. Voice communication and basic organization makes them quite difficult to kill.

4) BG Premades (Premades only), they have synergized builds, with as many buffs as possible, they most likely have a dedicated healbot and a CC machinem usually a DK. They buff each other, protect each other, and usually move together. It's easy to recognize them, especially in TDM (Team Deathmatch). Almost impossible to kill without an equally organized group or specific tactics to counter their plays.

Here's what you can do:

1) Have at least 2 people in your group run Light's Champion (Panacea morph, restoration ultimate, usually referred to as Resto Ulti) and cycle it. It's very cheap and very effective, if you can keep it up consistently, it will give enormous survivability. Cycle it means have someone cast it, wait at least 10 to 15 seconds, than cast it again. Nightblades have very good ultimate generation, while sorcs have reduced cost. Either way it should be up fairly consistently.

2) Have at least one person in your group running Wizard's Riposte, it's a magicka set that applies minor maim to whomever attacks the wearer. Resto ulti + wizard means 30% damage reduction and 15% less damage opponents deal, pretty powerful combo.

3) Use Discord and move as a group. If you get wiped, wait for everyone to respawn before jumping down.

4) Make some PvP gear with Impenetrable trait, see what's hot right now as far as sets go. Contrary to popular belief, PvP gear, with some exceptions, can be quite cheap and easily crafted.

5) Don't run all the same classes, and don't worry about a dedicated healer, you can't heal in PvP the same way you heal in PvE, but you want some diversity. For example, a DK can CC people in place while a magsorc drops his destro ultimate. See what works for you. Have at least one or 2 heavy hitters, people capable of killing reliably, and one support makes everything easier.

6) Learn to play the objectives. CTF and Domination can be won with 2.5k+ points and 0 kills.

7) If you have to kill someone, make sure to focus one at the time, and go to another after that one is dead. If you can determine which one is the squishiest, go for that one first.

8) Last but not least, make sure you have mobility. Have at least one source of major expedition (roll dodge with bow passive, double take) or a gap closer or dash ability (streak, toppling charge, invasion, crit charge, ambush). Also make sure you have access to either immovability potions, full momentum, shuffle, or just enough stamina to roll dodge, to get rid of roots and soft CCs.

Hope this helps.

PS - You can read all the guides you want, watch all the videos, and get the best gear and builds, but, in the end, only experience can save you, and death is a great teacher. Make sure, every time you die, to open the death recap and see what killed you. Also, pay attention to what put you on the spot that moment, like, not being able to move due to roots, or not being able to counter play the nightblade's cloak, getting separated and singled out. Most of all, if you like the game, keep at it. At first can be frustrating, but in time you learn the mechanics and learn the counter plays.

Ok so here is my experiences queuing as a single player. I was in a deathmatch with a team that was obviously very well organized with 2 healers. And the other team that hardly ever jumped down from their ledge. Result super easy win for the organized team.

Then I played a capture the flag with a team that camped our spawn location and another that just kept scoring (luckily this was a short match).

And another deathmatch team that for the first 3 minutes was a 4 on 4 on 2 with my team being the 2.

I am not sure if any of these strategies would have helped me.

Bgs to me, seem HIGHLY exploitable. I am not sure how this is supposed to be fun.

Yes, they can be, but I can also tell you that just by cycling Light's Champion you will have incredible mitigation.

We ended up in a deathmatch yesterday, against a very organized premade with destro ultis, ended up with 0 deaths and a truckload of kills.

We were using 3 Resto Ultis and keeping it up almost 100%.

30% damage reduction is huge, don't scoff at it.

Of course, we were also running PvP builds, and we had some experience in teamwork.

That strategy would not help us but thanks for at least trying. :-)

Aisle9 · July 2017

You are welcome

driosketch · July 2017

Tonight was my first time with BGs. Must have played almost a dozen maps, all of them through the group finder. First match one team dominated us and the other team. I tweaked my load-out, on the second or third match my group was dominating. And so it went, winning some and losing others, some lopsided and other matches down to the final flag or relic.

I might be hooked, it was a lot of fun in the end. Maybe because I'm not turned off by losses, won about a third of my matches I think, or that I'm not terrible and a quick learner on tactics. Not that I'm ready to abandon Cyrodill yet, I love my siege battles. Still, getting killed by a strong four man group in BGs is somehow less frustrating than when it happens in Cyrodiil. So might be a good place to go when I need a break.

BlueRaven · July 2017

Aisle9 wrote: »

You are welcome

Yeah I did not mention it earlier but I am doing the below 50 bgs. Two of my friends just started and they don't even have Cps yet. So this type of high end strategy is highly interesting but not applicable.

So far 25 min in a que. Fun never stops.

BlueRaven · July 2017

Ok it's done. At 3:40 in the morning.

Some guildies came in on their high powered pvp characters and helped us all get it.

I will never do a BG again.

FloppyTouch · July 2017

A well formed group will win every time ur best chance is to get in with a bunch of people that solo qued

But coming from someone that ran bgs solo and in a really good group solo is more fun. In a pre made group when you faceroll the game it's not fun I rather be against equal skilled players then randoms getting smashed any day.

They really need a pre made group que and a solo que bgs

Knootewoot · July 2017

I never did a BG before until yesterday (for the achievement

)

1st round we lost bigtime.
2nd round we won bigtime

Tbh I really liked the short capture the flag mode and I probably will queue more for it.

But an organized team will easilty ROFLstomp other pug teams. Still, I got some rewards and gear and now I want more. Even the losers get rewards so I don't mind.