Four Focussed Aims in a second...

Wreuntzylla · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Unless something has changed recently, there is no 1 sec global cooldown. All actions are the length of the animation, and can be shortened by an amount determined by a local cooldown, based on groupings.

The heirarchy in clipping is, in ascending order, basic attack (LA/HA) --> ability --> block/bash/weapon swap/sprint/etc.

If you spam the same ability, you can't land 2 in one second because an ability does not clip the animation of another ability. If you clip the animation of an ability with, for example, bash, the bash animation cannot be clipped.

What does this mean? You can land three damage actions in a one second timeframe. For example, light attack, surprise attack and bash. This can happen when the light attack was started in the previous second and is clipped at the beginning of the current second by surprise attack followed by a bash.

So, you can't see the same ability twice in one second, but it has nothing to do with a cooldown, it has to do with the clipping hierarchy.

When talking about focused aim, if they are spamming the ability, it is theoretically impossible for two to land in the same second. If 4 landed, there was at least an about 5 second window. I say 5sec because the first cast of any ability with a cast time is longer than follow on casts. Because focused aim makes a distinctive sound before hitting you, absent lag, you should be able to react for about 4.5 sec of that time.

There has always been a 1s cooldown between skills.

Never mind, you said between skills. That isn't a cooldown. That is the length of the animation. Animations have different lengths.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Unless something has changed recently, there is no 1 sec global cooldown. All actions are the length of the animation, and can be shortened by an amount determined by a local cooldown, based on groupings.

The heirarchy in clipping is, in ascending order, basic attack (LA/HA) --> ability --> block/bash/weapon swap/sprint/etc.

If you spam the same ability, you can't land 2 in one second because an ability does not clip the animation of another ability. If you clip the animation of an ability with, for example, bash, the bash animation cannot be clipped.

What does this mean? You can land three damage actions in a one second timeframe. For example, light attack, surprise attack and bash. This can happen when the light attack was started in the previous second and is clipped at the beginning of the current second by surprise attack followed by a bash.

So, you can't see the same ability twice in one second, but it has nothing to do with a cooldown, it has to do with the clipping hierarchy.

When talking about focused aim, if they are spamming the ability, it is theoretically impossible for two to land in the same second. If 4 landed, there was at least an about 5 second window. I say 5sec because the first cast of any ability with a cast time is longer than follow on casts. Because focused aim makes a distinctive sound before hitting you, absent lag, you should be able to react for about 4.5 sec of that time.

There has always been a 1s cooldown between skills.

Rather than just say "nuh uh," let me suggest that you jump on an NB and practice animation cancelling surprise attack. You will be able to clip the animation well before one second is up.

Yet you can't start the next surprise attack until 1 after casting the first one.

hence the global cooldown.

Wreuntzylla · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Unless something has changed recently, there is no 1 sec global cooldown. All actions are the length of the animation, and can be shortened by an amount determined by a local cooldown, based on groupings.

The heirarchy in clipping is, in ascending order, basic attack (LA/HA) --> ability --> block/bash/weapon swap/sprint/etc.

If you spam the same ability, you can't land 2 in one second because an ability does not clip the animation of another ability. If you clip the animation of an ability with, for example, bash, the bash animation cannot be clipped.

What does this mean? You can land three damage actions in a one second timeframe. For example, light attack, surprise attack and bash. This can happen when the light attack was started in the previous second and is clipped at the beginning of the current second by surprise attack followed by a bash.

So, you can't see the same ability twice in one second, but it has nothing to do with a cooldown, it has to do with the clipping hierarchy.

When talking about focused aim, if they are spamming the ability, it is theoretically impossible for two to land in the same second. If 4 landed, there was at least an about 5 second window. I say 5sec because the first cast of any ability with a cast time is longer than follow on casts. Because focused aim makes a distinctive sound before hitting you, absent lag, you should be able to react for about 4.5 sec of that time.

There has always been a 1s cooldown between skills.

Rather than just say "nuh uh," let me suggest that you jump on an NB and practice animation cancelling surprise attack. You will be able to clip the animation well before one second is up.

Yet you can't start the next surprise attack until 1 after casting the first one.

hence the global cooldown.

See my edit above.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Unless something has changed recently, there is no 1 sec global cooldown. All actions are the length of the animation, and can be shortened by an amount determined by a local cooldown, based on groupings.

The heirarchy in clipping is, in ascending order, basic attack (LA/HA) --> ability --> block/bash/weapon swap/sprint/etc.

If you spam the same ability, you can't land 2 in one second because an ability does not clip the animation of another ability. If you clip the animation of an ability with, for example, bash, the bash animation cannot be clipped.

What does this mean? You can land three damage actions in a one second timeframe. For example, light attack, surprise attack and bash. This can happen when the light attack was started in the previous second and is clipped at the beginning of the current second by surprise attack followed by a bash.

So, you can't see the same ability twice in one second, but it has nothing to do with a cooldown, it has to do with the clipping hierarchy.

When talking about focused aim, if they are spamming the ability, it is theoretically impossible for two to land in the same second. If 4 landed, there was at least an about 5 second window. I say 5sec because the first cast of any ability with a cast time is longer than follow on casts. Because focused aim makes a distinctive sound before hitting you, absent lag, you should be able to react for about 4.5 sec of that time.

There has always been a 1s cooldown between skills.

Rather than just say "nuh uh," let me suggest that you jump on an NB and practice animation cancelling surprise attack. You will be able to clip the animation well before one second is up.

Yet you can't start the next surprise attack until 1 after casting the first one.

hence the global cooldown.

See my edit above.

Your saying your can't land 2 skills in 1s because of clipping hierarchy when you can't land 2 in 1s because of the internal cooldown.

Trying spamming 1 skill and cancelling it with something like weapon swap or block. It'll always hit once a second.

NolaArch · July 2017

rhapsodious wrote: »

@NolaArch isn't this what happened to you last night?

I know with the travel time of Focused Aim, you could pop off multiple ones before the first one hit, but four seems, uh, excessive. And if it is legit, I really want to know how it's done. For research of course.

Yes, it is. In BGs. I got hit with, I think, four --no less than three. I couldn't rationalize that it was travel time, either, as the guy was right in my face. But sure enough, four Focused Aims that left me in disbelief. I don't use it because it's slow and doesn't fit into my playstyle. Definitely shouldn't be going off that fast.

Wreuntzylla · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Unless something has changed recently, there is no 1 sec global cooldown. All actions are the length of the animation, and can be shortened by an amount determined by a local cooldown, based on groupings.

The heirarchy in clipping is, in ascending order, basic attack (LA/HA) --> ability --> block/bash/weapon swap/sprint/etc.

If you spam the same ability, you can't land 2 in one second because an ability does not clip the animation of another ability. If you clip the animation of an ability with, for example, bash, the bash animation cannot be clipped.

What does this mean? You can land three damage actions in a one second timeframe. For example, light attack, surprise attack and bash. This can happen when the light attack was started in the previous second and is clipped at the beginning of the current second by surprise attack followed by a bash.

So, you can't see the same ability twice in one second, but it has nothing to do with a cooldown, it has to do with the clipping hierarchy.

When talking about focused aim, if they are spamming the ability, it is theoretically impossible for two to land in the same second. If 4 landed, there was at least an about 5 second window. I say 5sec because the first cast of any ability with a cast time is longer than follow on casts. Because focused aim makes a distinctive sound before hitting you, absent lag, you should be able to react for about 4.5 sec of that time.

There has always been a 1s cooldown between skills.

Rather than just say "nuh uh," let me suggest that you jump on an NB and practice animation cancelling surprise attack. You will be able to clip the animation well before one second is up.

Yet you can't start the next surprise attack until 1 after casting the first one.

hence the global cooldown.

See my edit above.

Your saying your can't land 2 skills in 1s because of clipping hierarchy when you can't land 2 in 1s because of the internal cooldown.

Trying spamming 1 skill and cancelling it with something like weapon swap or block. It'll always hit once a second.

Sometimes greater, but it's because the action you are clipping the ability with has an animation... That animation cannot be clipped...

josiahva · July 2017

Welcome to Cyrodiil, where you die from multiple attacks you never saw or heard. Happens all the time, nothing new.

SASQUATCH0 · July 2017

gethemshauna wrote: »

SASQUATCH0 wrote: »

Maybe he double bar a bow and animation cancels them?

You have no idea how animation cancelling works.

You're right I don't, but I'm pretty sure you can barswap/block cancel any ability. But I don't know how it works so disregard everything I just said.

MarbleQuiche · July 2017

You know, there are ways to send packets to servers that pretend to have been sent further in the past than they were. No idea how ZOS handle this situation, but a naive approach would be to trust these packets and assume something held them up en-route. Or if ZOS runs their servers with fewer resources than needed, they could be covering that up by being very naive indeed.

I wouldn't say this scenario is technically impossible, but just how much is possible depends largely on ZOS. As they're never going to tell us any if this and we're honest players, I doubt we'll ever know.

The only surety is that this shouldn't be happening at all, cheating or not. Problems with the user's connection aside, ESO's network code ought to be robust enough to negate this possibility.

Wreuntzylla · July 2017

MarbleQuiche wrote: »

You know, there are ways to send packets to servers that pretend to have been sent further in the past than they were. No idea how ZOS handle this situation, but a naive approach would be to trust these packets and assume something held them up en-route. Or if ZOS runs their servers with fewer resources than needed, they could be covering that up by being very naive indeed.

I wouldn't say this scenario is technically impossible, but just how much is possible depends largely on ZOS. As they're never going to tell us any if this and we're honest players, I doubt we'll ever know.

The only surety is that this shouldn't be happening at all, cheating or not. Problems with the user's connection aside, ESO's network code ought to be robust enough to negate this possibility.

Someone posted a while back that this is, in part, how cheat engine works. Players flying, moving at hyper speeds and a host of other effects were attributed to that program.

Could be fixed by encrypting packets, but we have enough lag as it is...

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2017

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

This has been going on for awhile.

@Minno remember a few weeks ago me and you were watching one of our DC brethen being pelted by a single guy on Bleakers rooftop with Focused Aims that was firing off like a Machine Gun? "Pft,pft,pft,pft,pft"

We remember it distinctly because we were laughing at how fast this guy was able to shoot Focused Aim...it was shooting faster then a Semi-Automatic Rifle...the guy was just barraging them off, the poor sap got hit with 4 of them within like 1.5secs or so(I saw it from stealth exactly 5m from the guy, i had a perfect view of this guy shooting Focused Aim off like a Semi-automatic rifle with no cast time and the Focused Aim light pillar on the poor guy who had no chance)...it was kinda hilarious but totally a hack or some kind of undocumented bug.

I have also noticed some other cast time abilities being funky like some kinda delay and then bam, its almost like maybe Snipe, Crystal Frags, etc has its own version of macro slice now. I don't know...things have been really weird as of late. That may explain how that guy was ripping off Snipes so fast...buggy game is buggy.

He was probably using the non-ballista morph of the bow ultimate. It's a channeled attack with an animation exactly as you describe.

Thats what we initially thought too,. but it wasn't. He was literally drawing back the bow for a long period of time like Snipe, but after he fired the 1st shot, there was a dealy and then he just started ripping off Focused aims, had the tell tale sound, the tell tale impact sound, the pillar of light...it wasn't the Bow Ultimate. I spent a good bit of time reviewing that game recording and it wasn't the bow ultimate. Sadly, that footage has been deleted off my drive as i took out the bits and pieces I wanted, and saving such footage is not really my thing.

I haven't seen anything like that happen since. I also haven't seen that player in Cyrodiil for months so I don't know if he quit, got banned, I don't know. At the time and still today i chalk it up as some kinda bug or lag related glitch. It seemed very much like a macro slice just happening with Focused Aim instead of crit charge. It was like the game qued all of his Focused Aims and just unloaded them later...very much like a macro slice.

I am very hesitant to call people cheaters because this game has some truly incredible bugs and glitches, most of which players are not even purposely trying to do, they just happen during normal combat.

Wreuntzylla · July 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

This has been going on for awhile.

@Minno remember a few weeks ago me and you were watching one of our DC brethen being pelted by a single guy on Bleakers rooftop with Focused Aims that was firing off like a Machine Gun? "Pft,pft,pft,pft,pft"

We remember it distinctly because we were laughing at how fast this guy was able to shoot Focused Aim...it was shooting faster then a Semi-Automatic Rifle...the guy was just barraging them off, the poor sap got hit with 4 of them within like 1.5secs or so(I saw it from stealth exactly 5m from the guy, i had a perfect view of this guy shooting Focused Aim off like a Semi-automatic rifle with no cast time and the Focused Aim light pillar on the poor guy who had no chance)...it was kinda hilarious but totally a hack or some kind of undocumented bug.

I have also noticed some other cast time abilities being funky like some kinda delay and then bam, its almost like maybe Snipe, Crystal Frags, etc has its own version of macro slice now. I don't know...things have been really weird as of late. That may explain how that guy was ripping off Snipes so fast...buggy game is buggy.

He was probably using the non-ballista morph of the bow ultimate. It's a channeled attack with an animation exactly as you describe.

Thats what we initially thought too,. but it wasn't. He was literally drawing back the bow for a long period of time like Snipe, but after he fired the 1st shot, there was a dealy and then he just started ripping off Focused aims, had the tell tale sound, the tell tale impact sound, the pillar of light...it wasn't the Bow Ultimate. I spent a good bit of time reviewing that game recording and it wasn't the bow ultimate. Sadly, that footage has been deleted off my drive as i took out the bits and pieces I wanted, and saving such footage is not really my thing.

I haven't seen anything like that happen since. I also haven't seen that player in Cyrodiil for months so I don't know if he quit, got banned, I don't know. At the time and still today i chalk it up as some kinda bug or lag related glitch. It seemed very much like a macro slice just happening with Focused Aim instead of crit charge. It was like the game qued all of his Focused Aims and just unloaded them later...very much like a macro slice.

I am very hesitant to call people cheaters because this game has some truly incredible bugs and glitches, most of which players are not even purposely trying to do, they just happen during normal combat.

You can clearly tell which people are purposefully abusing the system. When it happens every time you run into them...

Most recently, I ran into several different players and groups of players who dodged 100% of my attacks while I emptied my stamina bar. I though it was the shuffle bug rearing its ugly head again. However, I play off hours and would see these players every single day. All of them disappeared overnight and have been missing for several weeks now. They probably all left for another game at the same time, amirite?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2017

Deedleqwerty wrote: »

Other players in this forum will deny it, but there are modded controllers out there that can deliver 5 attacks in a single move. You were attacked by a cheater, plain and simple.

I report every one I come across to ZOS. Don't know if the company does anything about them.

Total BS. You arent doing that with any kind of fancy Macros or controller mods. You can certainly create well planned burst combos using macros that make 2-3 skills hit a target all at once, but not 4 of the same skill. There are 3 possibilities:

1. The server did in fact take crap for a second and 4 normal skills landed at once, or the landed at normal times and your game perceived it at once (really comes to the same thing). The server was not exactly stable last weekend. This is your most probable scenario.
2. You didnt see what you thought you saw. Not saying you are lying, but its certainly possible it didn't quite happen as you described.
3. Someone is in fact cheating using 3rd party software. That is way different than macro/animation canceling, but they are often confused.

NO AMOUNT OF ANIMATION CANCELING CAN MAKE 4 SNIPES HIT YOU AT THE SAME TIME.

iDispaiir · July 2017

Simple fix, take snipe out of the game because it doesn't require skill

josiahva · July 2017

iDispaiir wrote: »

Simple fix, take snipe out of the game because it doesn't require skill

Better fix, rework all the skill lines to have PvP/PvE specific skills that don't transfer over. Maybe then they can actually balance the game.

Idinuse · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

SASQUATCH0 wrote: »

Maybe he double bar a bow and animation cancels them?

as much as i hate animation canceling.....

you cant animation cancel abilities that needs a cast time to work...
if you try to animation cancel it it simply wont fire off...

As all skills should work, but the hate for the channeling and cast time class #1 is limitless.

It's such an unfair system it's a joke, at least till one class does not have 90% channels and cast time skills.

eso_lags · July 2017

@murdomac101 saw someone say something about modded controllers, who knows maybe.. Regardless i report every one of those players. I dont care what anyone else thinks or what the reasoning is, if you are casting 3 or more abilities that have a 1+ second cast time then, imo, its an exploit and zos can decide.

Especially when you are instantly killed, your health desyncs, and you have a recap full of 4-5 snipes. And i know on xbox there is a glitch to do it so every single person gets reported if it happens to me. And Its been going on since before thieves guild as far as i know.

Danksta · July 2017

Deedleqwerty wrote: »

Other players in this forum will deny it, but there are modded controllers out there that can deliver 5 attacks in a single move. You were attacked by a cheater, plain and simple.

I report every one I come across to ZOS. Don't know if the company does anything about them.

A modded controller that bypasses the CD on skills? Sounds pretty expensive.

KingYogi415 · July 2017

If you heard that twing 4 times and did nothing L2P!

Rygonix · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

If you heard that twing 4 times and did nothing L2P!

You need to learn to read. All 4 of them appeared to him within a split second, from the same guy he was keeping a close eye on. So what are you supposed to do in that scenario?

Gilvoth · July 2017

Deedleqwerty wrote: »

Other players in this forum will deny it, but there are modded controllers out there that can deliver 5 attacks in a single move. You were attacked by a cheater, plain and simple.

I report every one I come across to ZOS. Don't know if the company does anything about them.

that is what i agree with as well.
it has been happening more and more as of recently.

Cernow · July 2017

I play a lot of Cyrodiil and see this quite frequently. Not just with Focused Aim, but all manner of skills with a cast time. Everything hits you at once, as if it's been macro'd and essentially one-shots you. Death log is always a case of "WTF".

All to often this happens when you aren't lagging, when other players around you aren't lagging and when all other players' attacks seem normal. Then a particular player will hit you with an insta combo of attacks and you're dead.

This can happen at any time, on a heavily loaded campaign (like all are currently) or in an almost empty campaign in the dead of night. So I don't think server load has much to do with it.

It's not lag, latency, L2P issues or any of that. It's cheating, pure and simple. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise is likely an exploiter trying to justify or cover their actions.

Not much point bringing it to the forums as the exploiters will just deflect or attempt to discredit you. Submit a ticket and report the player involved. Support can investigate and will likely have a list of names that crop up frequently in such reports.

Wreuntzylla · July 2017

iDispaiir wrote: »

Simple fix, take snipe out of the game because it doesn't require skill

Lol, wut? This is not a skill based game. Unless... are you roleplaying a boxer in PvP?

Jamascus · July 2017

Rianai wrote: »

There is a bug where you get hit by snipes but the game doesn't show those hits. Your health bar won't move and there will be no sound/animation. However a combat log addon will show that you are actually getting hit. When your screen then finally registers those snipes a few seconds later it appears to be multiple snipes at once (and usually you are dead), even though it wasn't. I don't know if this bug can be exploited intentionally or if it is something that just happens from time to time due to lag or whatever, but it doesn't have to do anything with cheats or animation cancelling.

Also happens in combination with crit rush. Those 2 abilities seems to be the most buggy from my experience.

Crit rush is a cancer all it's own.

MarzAttakz · July 2017

Yeah, never gonna happen, impossible they say. GTFO is what I say.

redshirt_49 · July 2017

Just got hit with Funnel Health five times instantly in BG. As far as I could see, the guy wasn't even casting anything.

It didn't seem like lag because nobody else had this effect. Only this guy, over and over again.