The need for more frequent balance updates

ParaNostram · July 2017

ZOS, you can't balance a game only 4 times a year. The current PvP meta is find the thing that's broken this patch, don't worry, you have the entire lifespan of this patch to use it. The upcoming changes to proc sets look great, adding some real counterplay to these sets as opposed to having them just be undodgeable instant stacked damage. Why couldn't this have been developed and implemented earlier? Can you imagine if they implemented balance patches every two weeks instead of every few months? This shotgun approach of change 101 things at once leads to another thing being broken next patch and we gotta wait until the patch after that for it to be properly fixed.

ZOS, you already have your work cut out for you and then some with how every single set is always available for end game and builds can take such diverse turns and in regards to skills and races and stats and so much more, don't make this job harder than it has to be by only having four shotgun fixes a year. Do yourself and the players a favor. Don't make us sit through broken unbalanced gameplay knowing it won't be fixed for the duration of the patch if it gets fixed at all.

Edit for clarification: I'm advocating to smaller more frequent patches as opposed to seasonal massive patches.

ParaNostram · July 2017

It's even more atrocious when there are things WE THE PLAYERS WARN YOU WILL HAPPEN and you ignore it and push out unbalanced patches anyways, or push forward on broken events with servers perpetually burning? What's the point of player feedback and tester feedback if you don't listen like ever? Come on ZOS...

Bouldercleave · July 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

It's even more atrocious when there are things WE THE PLAYERS WARN YOU WILL HAPPEN and you ignore it and push out unbalanced patches anyways, or push forward on broken events with servers perpetually burning? What's the point of player feedback and tester feedback if you don't listen like ever? Come on ZOS...

Just because they didn't do what you wanted, doesn't mean that they didn't listen. If they did everything that everyone suggested over the last three years, the game would have imploded long ago.

True balance will never be achieved for several reasons:

1. They implemented far too many end game options. Many sets will never be up to par and others will be OP by comparison.
2. Player skill is a HUGE factor. You can never have balance because of this. Someone will always cry nerf when they lose.
3. PvP and PvE are VERY different in terms of balance. You cannot balance one without screwing up the other. They cannot be balanced together.

It's just not possible or it would have already been done.

Personally I don't want to have to relearn, respec, and regear every two weeks.

AcadianPaladin · July 2017

I agree with @Bouldercleave . ESO's age and fact that it is still not balanced highlights the incompatibility of PvE and PvP. How many years of anger-inducing 'balance patches' does it take to realize that?

As far as frequent changes, I hate them. I work very hard to get my PvE character performing smoothly and elegantly in her role, then have to respond to unwanted 'balance' changes that always make playing her less fun.

SoLooney · July 2017

For real, i dont mind balance patches every couple months or so, i would hate to regear ever couple weeks like with the weapon trait changes. Next thing we know, theyre gonna crap on divine traits and every end game dps player will have to get new armor lmao

ParaNostram · July 2017

Oh it'll never be truly balanced but it's really hard to balance things in large adjustments. Here, as an example, I want you to get in the shower and turn on the water. Large adjustments get you in the ballpark of what temperature you want, small adjustments gets it closer to what you want. Some showers you just never will get the right temperature.

Large adjustments need to be followed by smaller ones to get everything working smoothly. Is something overperforming? Adjust it a little bit. Now there is merit in letting the players work around issues as honestly pretty often the things people cry nerf over can be overcome with time facing the issue. Example, I've learned to (for the most part) survive proctatoes in battlegrounds and overcome them. It takes more effort and skill than it does to stack a bunch of procs but it can be done in a number of cases.

However to argue "it'll never be balanced so don't try" feels pretty defeatist. I'd rather get as close as we can, to keep working at the sysyphean task of balancing this game than stopping at good enough (which has rarely been reached in PvP truthfully)

Betheny · July 2017

By "balance" OP means of course nerfs he thinks need to happen due to him being killed by an xxx specced player.

ParaNostram · July 2017

Betheny wrote: »

By "balance" OP means of course nerfs he thinks need to happen due to him being killed by an xxx specced player.

She and I mean nerfs and buffs for what needs it. I've died to proc sets yeah, everyone dies to them find a death recap in a battleground without them in it. Also the fix to them is coming by adjusting them so they can have some counterplay (though to be honest 1 full second is a bit long for these sets to go off, that's an eternity really in game, I'd say 0.8 seconds would make more sense). I just don't see why we wait several months for these fixes is all.

Edit: In a game characterized by choice, you have failed if everyone is making the same decision.

Betheny · July 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

I just don't see why we wait several months for these fixes is all.

My suspicion is because consoles.

ParaNostram · July 2017

Betheny wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I just don't see why we wait several months for these fixes is all.

My suspicion is because consoles.

Well they've stated their reasons but who knows what the real reasons are. You can't balance something in giant bursts, it takes a series of small adjustments to get anywhere close balance. We know the team is understaffed, who knows where the crown crate money is going it sure isn't going to hiring enough people and proper equipment to run the game right.

KingYogi415 · July 2017

This is nonsense.

Meta shifts once a year is more then enough....

L2P or find another game maybe?

ParaNostram · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This is nonsense.

Meta shifts once a year is more then enough....

L2P or find another game maybe?

Responses like this are nonsense. Look at how often other games implement balance patches, and look at how small some of those patches are. On ESO, they're always large, and they're infrequent. I have learned to play, I have refused to use cheese-tastic builds. I stop playing on a character if I win too easily. I'm using as an example for this thread the solution being implemented for proc builds and asking why wasn't this solution implemented sooner.

The changes are being made, but why do they have to be giant change everything at once and hope you don't break something changes? Why can't we have one smaller patch adjusting proc sets. Then, when we see if that hasn't broken anything, we do the patch adjusting armor traits. Then the patch adjusting standing stones, etc etc, incremental changes to what is needed as is needed. Smaller more frequent adjustments make the game easier to balance. It's never going to be balanced, it's never going to be easily balanced, but it can be done more efficiently.

Maybe you should L2R - learn to read.

idk · July 2017

OMG, such drastic changes 4 times a year is a pain and, if I understood correctly someone wants more? NO.

Zos needs to do a better job figuring out what they want to do instead of being absurd with such large scale changes every 4 months. The only reason we get these big change is Zos seems challenged analyzing information and have limited understanding about how their game works.

Case in point, they made proc sets not not crit thinking that was what was needed for proc sets. Obviously a failure to understand their game since in PvP we already mitigate the bonus damage from crit. Now we have another major change coming merely matter of months from the previous.

Zos just needs to step up to the plate and get the people on their team that can analyze the game.

It is just absurd we go through this every three months.

Edit: to the OP, once a year with major changes are enough. If Zos actually figured things out it would work. Tweaking every 3 months after that is fine, But small scale. Beyond that change are fixing things that are not working as intended one way or the other. Zos just needs to get their act together.

itscompton · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

OMG, such drastic changes 4 times a year is a pain and, if I understood correctly someone wants more? NO.

Zos needs to do a better job figuring out what they want to do instead of being absurd with such large scale changes every 4 months. The only reason we get these big change is Zos seems challenged analyzing information and have limited understanding about how their game works.

Case in point, they made proc sets not not crit thinking that was what was needed for proc sets. Obviously a failure to understand their game since in PvP we already mitigate the bonus damage from crit. Now we have another major change coming merely matter of months from the previous.

Zos just needs to step up to the plate and get the people on their team that can analyze the game.

It is just absurd we go through this every three months.

Edit: to the OP, once a year with major changes are enough. If Zos actually figured things out it would work. Tweaking every 3 months after that is fine, But small scale. Beyond that change are fixing things that are not working as intended one way or the other. Zos just needs to get their act together.

I'm pretty sure the whole reason the OP wants balancing passes more often is so that changes DON'T have to be so drastic. Plenty of other games tweek things in small ways more often so you never sign on feeling like you character/class has completely changed overnight.

ParaNostram · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

OMG, such drastic changes 4 times a year is a pain and, if I understood correctly someone wants more? NO.

Zos needs to do a better job figuring out what they want to do instead of being absurd with such large scale changes every 4 months. The only reason we get these big change is Zos seems challenged analyzing information and have limited understanding about how their game works.

Case in point, they made proc sets not not crit thinking that was what was needed for proc sets. Obviously a failure to understand their game since in PvP we already mitigate the bonus damage from crit. Now we have another major change coming merely matter of months from the previous.

Zos just needs to step up to the plate and get the people on their team that can analyze the game.

It is just absurd we go through this every three months.

Edit: to the OP, once a year with major changes are enough. If Zos actually figured things out it would work. Tweaking every 3 months after that is fine, But small scale. Beyond that change are fixing things that are not working as intended one way or the other. Zos just needs to get their act together.

Not drastic changes, small incremental changes. Let people get used to things one at a time, if anything ends up broken you'll see which piece is broken, it's just smarter game design.

idk · July 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

OMG, such drastic changes 4 times a year is a pain and, if I understood correctly someone wants more? NO.

Zos needs to do a better job figuring out what they want to do instead of being absurd with such large scale changes every 4 months. The only reason we get these big change is Zos seems challenged analyzing information and have limited understanding about how their game works.

Case in point, they made proc sets not not crit thinking that was what was needed for proc sets. Obviously a failure to understand their game since in PvP we already mitigate the bonus damage from crit. Now we have another major change coming merely matter of months from the previous.

Zos just needs to step up to the plate and get the people on their team that can analyze the game.

It is just absurd we go through this every three months.

Edit: to the OP, once a year with major changes are enough. If Zos actually figured things out it would work. Tweaking every 3 months after that is fine, But small scale. Beyond that change are fixing things that are not working as intended one way or the other. Zos just needs to get their act together.

Not drastic changes, small incremental changes. Let people get used to things one at a time, if anything ends up broken you'll see which piece is broken, it's just smarter game design.

You missed the biggest point. Zos is not capable of figuring things out to begin with which is why they do drastic changes often. If they could then we would see a balancing patch once a year and merely some tweaks in between.

Until Zos can figure out how to analyze data from the game and work with groups as well as have focus feedback, and be able to understand it, we have what we have had for these few year.

It is simple to say we would like the drastic changes less often. It is clearly challenging for Zos to get it right. (I think they believe they have it right with the release of each update, only to find they were wrong)