Trading Guilds charging 15k/week now

Diminish · July 2017

jazsper77 wrote: »

Let's be very clear here, to say Guild Trader corruption doesn't exist on the NA PS4 server is an blatant lie.
I'm the GM of a 495 Free Trading Guild who has maintained a trader every week but 10 since traders were established.
I'm also an officer in each a Wayrest and Eldenroot Trading Guild on the PS4 NA and a GM and officer on the PC side also.
So my KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON FACT not some fancy idle thoughts.

How the Capital City Trading really works is 7 major guilds and 5 alliance guilds make up 12 of the capital city trader spots,plus the 5 back up bid spots that can be flipped if guilds when primary bid. That's 17 big time spots held down by a few.
So how it works usually is Friday/Saturday nite via group text,FB messenger,face time depending who starts the meeting each decides who will bid what spot and where to bid the back ups.(you ever wonder how they can magically move around each city and never lose their spot) it's pre determined amongst the group .

But back on topic: If you Guild has you pay a weekly fee of over 10k plus the following, run away asap.
1. Raffle
2. Raffle donations
3. Guild Auctions
4. 50/50
5. Gold donations.

If they are running these and as members concerned about where the gold is going demand the following for total transparency.
A pic of the app used to determine the raffle and 50/50 winner posted on guilds FB page or Community page
A pic of total Gold gained in Guild Auction plus a list of all items sold and how much sold for posted to guild pages.

Also you can ask that ALL transactions be visible to all members regardless of rank be available to all.
If you get the excuse of spies ...... Lol most of us GM's know the bid range of each capital city trading zone within a small margin of error. ITS NO BIG SECRET.

Also if you are paying a weekly fee for a Trader and cannot withdraw from guild bank but you can deposit be VERY VERY careful and track it. You may fined that alot of purps,blues,greens are being withdrawn and deconed to sell and or to use in their houses.this is gold either way people are making off you the members.

Further more 2 Rawl ka traders were fake at 9:05 Sunday nite and by Midnight had been flipped . Each fake bid was around 4.5 mill and each was flipped for 7 mill. Those fake/back up traders were bid with GUILD MEMBER DUES neither 2.5 million profit as of today has been deposited into guild banks but I bet whos bank that money went to.

For my fellow GMS nobody forced us to do this we created and started these Guilds . Furthermore nobody forced any of us to join the capital city trading rat race. That was the choice made by us the GMs not the members.Also I'm ashamed at some of the liberal like scare tactics you see in guild chat, like this one " If we don't raise the dues we are gonna lose our trader and the guild will DIE". Where all you do is move to the next tier down and sell just fine with no headaches.

A note to guild members who are weary of such things a Guild does just ask for total Transparency and VERY VERY important do not fall for the typical things you will get in chat from some GMS/OFFICERS
1. Love you guys
2. You guys rock
3. We really value you guys
4. It's a team effort ( but only a few make the decisions)

Because you may wake up one day to log on and your inbox will be full of expired items. You will check to see that a Guild that loved either kicked you and or the GM emptied the entire Guild bank and disbanded.

1. MASTER MERCHANTS one of the top if not top Mournhold Trading Guild at one time - GM took millions of gold and poof.
2. TMK - which was one of the most successful a Free Trader Guilds - one day the GM decided she was out and poof. There was actually a very long topic on this forum from members who woke up to thier Guild gone.

Again this reply is simply to let players in guilds and who are thinking of joining guilds to be careful and make sure Guilds you join are Transparent about all a Guilds assets.
Also to call [snip] on there is no corruption in the Trader system.

This. Like I said all along, 15k/week dues are NOT necessary. As far as transparency goes, I mentioned this as well. The problem with that is that it is still completely up to the GM to make that happen, and if they dont upon your request to do so then they will have a fleet of close friends/blind sheep in the guild hanging you up by your short hairs for even mentioning such blasphemy. GMs of larger guilds can't be wrong after all..
[edited to remove quote]

Ardan147 · July 2017

There are plenty of guilds that don't require weekly dues and either don't have minimum sales requirements or else those requirements are easily attainable. Those guilds do not have traders in the best locations (i.e., Rawl'kha or Mournhold). Because they can't afford it. Because to secure a guild trader in one of those spots costs a lot more gold than the guild collects just from taxes on sales. (Which is why these guilds also do things like raffles and auctions.) For me, as I'm now making over 500k gold a week (across all of my guilds) I have no problem with giving back 25k-30k to help these guilds secure the guild traders that make it possible.

I totally agree with the idea of having guilds bid on the location rather than the individual trader, and in locations with multiple traders the top X bids get a spot, with the guilds already there getting to keep their current trader, and then any new guilds in that spot would select their trader on a first-come, first-serve basis. (My original thought was to have the guilds rank traders in order of preference and have them assigned traders in order of bid, from highest to lowest. But then I decided it would be better for the guilds NOT to know where in the bidding they ended up, only whether they got the spot or not; as if the guild with the fifth highest bid for Rawl'kha knew this, they might see their position as vulnerable and raise their bid the next week, causing the other guilds in the area to have to keep raising their bids as well.)

That said, there are plenty of other decent spots, where you can get decent sales and the requirements aren't nearly as high. Though sales won't be quite as good as in places like Rawl'kha or Mournhold. Due to the fact that in these cities, the guild traders are located right by the wayshrine; in Mournhold the all the crafting tables are also located right in the area and the bank is within easy reach; in Rawl'kha the bank is right near the wayshrine, also the outlaw's refuge is well, and while the crafting tables are further away and spread out a bit, the open layout of the city allows you to make a beeline between practically any two points. Whereas cities like Wayrest and Evermore are a maze you have to navigate, and in Elden Root the bank and crafting tables are on the second level, accessed on the opposite side of the wayshrine from the guild traders, and you can't even ride your horse there. (My character who does the master writs is Daggerfall Covenant, but I always drop them off in Mournhold, as that city is far more convenient than Wayrest.)

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Must be a console thing. I do not know of any guilds in PC-NA that charge the members

I am in a Guild Trader in Rawlka that requires 15k worth of raffle tickets or 400k of sales a week. Considering things sell faster and for more money in Rawlka than anywhere else on PC/NA, the investment is more than worth it IMO. I left a trader in Deshaan that was free, and no way I would ever go back. 15K is spare change in this game if I am being candid. That, and our raffle has a top prize of a million gold. I would buy that many tickets even if it wasnt a requirement.

Also, considering our guild house has EVERY crafting station in the game, that alone is worth the price of admission. I did 1500 vouchers worth of master writs in an hour the other day. That would have taken me days. Haha

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

That means they are not selling well.

a good trading guild already has the sales to get the spot.

I honestly believe it's these greedy GM's who are also stuffing a lot of the gold in their banks for themselves. Granted of course that the prices for guild traders a week in places like Mournhold and Elden Root are obnoxiously expensive, they make more than enough gold to pay for their spot. And plus, a lot of these guilds are at max capacity. So let's put that into proper perspective. 15k multiplied by 500 is 7.5M a week. That's just assuming that everyone pays their dues. That's not including: Sells that are made, donations, etc. It's ridiculous.

@Ch4mpTW
I dont think 7.5 million comes close to being enough for a trader in Rawlka. I guarantee our GM is not anything like what you described. One of the most selfless individuals I have encountered in ESO, which is true of most good GMs.

MalagenR · July 2017

jazsper77 wrote: »

Let's be very clear here, to say Guild Trader corruption doesn't exist on the NA PS4 server is an blatant lie.
I'm the GM of a 495 Free Trading Guild who has maintained a trader every week but 10 since traders were established.
I'm also an officer in each a Wayrest and Eldenroot Trading Guild on the PS4 NA and a GM and officer on the PC side also.
So my KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON FACT not some fancy idle thoughts.

How the Capital City Trading really works is 7 major guilds and 5 alliance guilds make up 12 of the capital city trader spots,plus the 5 back up bid spots that can be flipped if guilds when primary bid. That's 17 big time spots held down by a few.
So how it works usually is Friday/Saturday nite via group text,FB messenger,face time depending who starts the meeting each decides who will bid what spot and where to bid the back ups.(you ever wonder how they can magically move around each city and never lose their spot) it's pre determined amongst the group .

But back on topic: If you Guild has you pay a weekly fee of over 10k plus the following, run away asap.
1. Raffle
2. Raffle donations
3. Guild Auctions
4. 50/50
5. Gold donations.

If they are running these and as members concerned about where the gold is going demand the following for total transparency.
A pic of the app used to determine the raffle and 50/50 winner posted on guilds FB page or Community page
A pic of total Gold gained in Guild Auction plus a list of all items sold and how much sold for posted to guild pages.

Also you can ask that ALL transactions be visible to all members regardless of rank be available to all.
If you get the excuse of spies ...... Lol most of us GM's know the bid range of each capital city trading zone within a small margin of error. ITS NO BIG SECRET.

Also if you are paying a weekly fee for a Trader and cannot withdraw from guild bank but you can deposit be VERY VERY careful and track it. You may fined that alot of purps,blues,greens are being withdrawn and deconed to sell and or to use in their houses.this is gold either way people are making off you the members.

Further more 2 Rawl ka traders were fake at 9:05 Sunday nite and by Midnight had been flipped . Each fake bid was around 4.5 mill and each was flipped for 7 mill. Those fake/back up traders were bid with GUILD MEMBER DUES neither 2.5 million profit as of today has been deposited into guild banks but I bet whos bank that money went to.

For my fellow GMS nobody forced us to do this we created and started these Guilds . Furthermore nobody forced any of us to join the capital city trading rat race. That was the choice made by us the GMs not the members.Also I'm ashamed at some of the liberal like scare tactics you see in guild chat, like this one " If we don't raise the dues we are gonna lose our trader and the guild will DIE". Where all you do is move to the next tier down and sell just fine with no headaches.

A note to guild members who are weary of such things a Guild does just ask for total Transparency and VERY VERY important do not fall for the typical things you will get in chat from some GMS/OFFICERS
1. Love you guys
2. You guys rock
3. We really value you guys
4. It's a team effort ( but only a few make the decisions)

Because you may wake up one day to log on and your inbox will be full of expired items. You will check to see that a Guild that loved either kicked you and or the GM emptied the entire Guild bank and disbanded.

1. MASTER MERCHANTS one of the top if not top Mournhold Trading Guild at one time - GM took millions of gold and poof.
2. TMK - which was one of the most successful a Free Trader Guilds - one day the GM decided she was out and poof. There was actually a very long topic on this forum from members who woke up to thier Guild gone.

Again this reply is simply to let players in guilds and who are thinking of joining guilds to be careful and make sure Guilds you join are Transparent about all a Guilds assets.
Also to call [snip] on there is no corruption in the Trader system.

The one key piece of information you left out is who you are in game and what guild you are running, for all we know this is total and utter ***. If it's not [snip], and you say you actually make a decent amount of sales in a "FREE" trading guild, can I join? I sell buku *** all week, pots, mats, crafted gear, looted gear, I'm definitely a top seller because I've had GM's send me PM's when I afk for a week about rejoining. So, let me know guy.
[edited to remove quote & for profanity bypass]

geonsocal · July 2017

holy cow @jazsper77 ...really insightful stuff...

be careful stepping into cyrodiil - there may be some bounties out on you for revealing all that insider info

Diminish · July 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am in a Guild Trader in Rawlka that requires 15k worth of raffle tickets or 400k of sales a week. Considering things sell faster and for more money in Rawlka than anywhere else on PC/NA, the investment is more than worth it IMO. I left a trader in Deshaan that was free, and no way I would ever go back. 15K is spare change in this game if I am being candid. That, and our raffle has a top prize of a million gold. I would buy that many tickets even if it wasnt a requirement.

Ok, well the guild in question does not care about minimum sales, and it doesn't matter if you buy into raffles or not.... You still pay 15k/week dues. These are two totally different situations. I could sell 3 million in stuff in a week, buy 20k worth of raffle tickets, and still be required to pay 15k just like the guy who only logged in on Sunday to pay his guild dues.

The main concern is that everyone knows 15k is not necessary. This arbitrary number comes from no other collection of people than those enforcing it. Everyone even remotely educated on the trader scene on PS4 NA knows there is a collection of large guilds that are an alliance with one another and they control who gets what trader. Obviously not every guild is mushy mushy with one another which leads to trader bids going to ridiculous amounts, and members pay for this.

ZoS should add guild management tools. They could literally add a guild fee option that would be able to be set by GMs. Free, 5k, 10k, etc. or x amount of sales. Perhaps even x amount of gold and each sale reduces this amount based on the sale amount. Anything is better than the monopoly on the economy that we currently have. Established guilds can literally charge whatever dues they want and people will tag along with it because their logic is "well I make 200k a week, what does another 5k in dues matter?" In reality that is 5k more than you had to pay last week, 10k more than you had to pay 3 months ago, etc. WHY?

Gracous · July 2017

Diminish wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am in a Guild Trader in Rawlka that requires 15k worth of raffle tickets or 400k of sales a week. Considering things sell faster and for more money in Rawlka than anywhere else on PC/NA, the investment is more than worth it IMO. I left a trader in Deshaan that was free, and no way I would ever go back. 15K is spare change in this game if I am being candid. That, and our raffle has a top prize of a million gold. I would buy that many tickets even if it wasnt a requirement.

Ok, well the guild in question does not care about minimum sales, and it doesn't matter if you buy into raffles or not.... You still pay 15k/week dues. These are two totally different situations. I could sell 3 million in stuff in a week, buy 20k worth of raffle tickets, and still be required to pay 15k just like the guy who only logged in on Sunday to pay his guild dues.

The main concern is that everyone knows 15k is not necessary. This arbitrary number comes from no other collection of people than those enforcing it. Everyone even remotely educated on the trader scene on PS4 NA knows there is a collection of large guilds that are an alliance with one another and they control who gets what trader. Obviously not every guild is mushy mushy with one another which leads to trader bids going to ridiculous amounts, and members pay for this.

ZoS should add guild management tools. They could literally add a guild fee option that would be able to be set by GMs. Free, 5k, 10k, etc. or x amount of sales. Perhaps even x amount of gold and each sale reduces this amount based on the sale amount. Anything is better than the monopoly on the economy that we currently have. Established guilds can literally charge whatever dues they want and people will tag along with it because their logic is "well I make 200k a week, what does another 5k in dues matter?" In reality that is 5k more than you had to pay last week, 10k more than you had to pay 3 months ago, etc. WHY?

The competition for prime traders spots is increasing weekly. GMs are willing to pay more and more for spots because they don't want to disappoint their guild mates. They also want the prestige of having the best trading guild on the server. So in order to maintain this they charge more and more. This is not sustainable though. In order to pay the weekly dues, prices will start to climb as well. People will stop buying.The guild dues will become too high for anyone to afford and people will stop paying and get kicked. Then the guild will decline and ultimately fail. At some point they will hit the glass ceiling and it will all collapse.
I am in one of the top trading guilds and my sales have been horrible for the last two weeks. So I am considering dropping out of that guild. 15K per week for 10K in sales is not what I had hoped for. My prices are competitive and often below what others are charging but yet no one is buying. Oh well!
I may just go to Belkarth and start selling in the open market. No Dues, 100% profit to me!

Diminish · July 2017

Gracous wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am in a Guild Trader in Rawlka that requires 15k worth of raffle tickets or 400k of sales a week. Considering things sell faster and for more money in Rawlka than anywhere else on PC/NA, the investment is more than worth it IMO. I left a trader in Deshaan that was free, and no way I would ever go back. 15K is spare change in this game if I am being candid. That, and our raffle has a top prize of a million gold. I would buy that many tickets even if it wasnt a requirement.

Ok, well the guild in question does not care about minimum sales, and it doesn't matter if you buy into raffles or not.... You still pay 15k/week dues. These are two totally different situations. I could sell 3 million in stuff in a week, buy 20k worth of raffle tickets, and still be required to pay 15k just like the guy who only logged in on Sunday to pay his guild dues.

The main concern is that everyone knows 15k is not necessary. This arbitrary number comes from no other collection of people than those enforcing it. Everyone even remotely educated on the trader scene on PS4 NA knows there is a collection of large guilds that are an alliance with one another and they control who gets what trader. Obviously not every guild is mushy mushy with one another which leads to trader bids going to ridiculous amounts, and members pay for this.

ZoS should add guild management tools. They could literally add a guild fee option that would be able to be set by GMs. Free, 5k, 10k, etc. or x amount of sales. Perhaps even x amount of gold and each sale reduces this amount based on the sale amount. Anything is better than the monopoly on the economy that we currently have. Established guilds can literally charge whatever dues they want and people will tag along with it because their logic is "well I make 200k a week, what does another 5k in dues matter?" In reality that is 5k more than you had to pay last week, 10k more than you had to pay 3 months ago, etc. WHY?

The competition for prime traders spots is increasing weekly. GMs are willing to pay more and more for spots because they don't want to disappoint their guild mates. They also want the prestige of having the best trading guild on the server. So in order to maintain this they charge more and more. This is not sustainable though. In order to pay the weekly dues, prices will start to climb as well. People will stop buying.The guild dues will become too high for anyone to afford and people will stop paying and get kicked. Then the guild will decline and ultimately fail. At some point they will hit the glass ceiling and it will all collapse.
I am in one of the top trading guilds and my sales have been horrible for the last two weeks. So I am considering dropping out of that guild. 15K per week for 10K in sales is not what I had hoped for. My prices are competitive and often below what others are charging but yet no one is buying. Oh well!
I may just go to Belkarth and start selling in the open market. No Dues, 100% profit to me!

Exactly why I chose to join in on this discussion. Not because I was a member of one of the mentioned guilds, but to portray my view of just how broken this current system is. Rather people advocate for an auction house, or just for a change/overhaul to trader kiosks really doesn't bother me. Those who feel the current system "works" baffles the hell out of me though. I have hope that someday someone at ZoS will wake up to this realization and perhaps we will see change or improvements, but honestly, I think that's all it will ever amount to... hope, and won't actually materialize to anything.

Smmokkee · July 2017

I just recently left a guild with 10k a week dues.. Bank was loaded and only getting more loaded while they always held a top spot. The amount just seemed like to much.. They have enough gold to win the spot they want 100 times over, and the dues went up to 10k when clearly the guild had no trouble at all with 5k. Just seemed greedy.

mvffins · July 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

I just recently left a guild with 10k a week dues.. Bank was loaded and only getting more loaded while they always held a top spot. The amount just seemed like to much.. They have enough gold to win the spot they want 100 times over, and the dues went up to 10k when clearly the guild had no trouble at all with 5k. Just seemed greedy.

They probably are waiting for enough gold until they can create a sister guild that is guaranteed to win a spot. If this was the case then they are merely saving up gold so people in the guild can list 60 items at once in a prime spot instead of 30.

I have no problems with a guild raising dues, but I do have a problem if they raise dues and do not win a bid on the following week. In my mind if a guild requires me to pay any amount of dues then it must have a guild trader to show for it at least every other week.

Exodium · July 2017

Lol I've just been kicked from Back Alley Trading for not paying their 15k a week fee only 3 days after deadline. I've been working till late and lag at night when I get home so I can only play on weekends, which isn't enough to justify that fee atm until ZOS sorts out their servers.

This is the problem with fixed guild fees. No flexibility whatsoever.

Nice way to treat its members. Good riddance.

Skjoldur · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Must be a console thing. I do not know of any guilds in PC-NA that charge the members

Rarely seen a trading guild that does not charge its members on PC.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2017

jazsper77 wrote: »

Let's be very clear here, to say Guild Trader corruption doesn't exist on the NA PS4 server is an blatant lie.
I'm the GM of a 495 Free Trading Guild who has maintained a trader every week but 10 since traders were established.
I'm also an officer in each a Wayrest and Eldenroot Trading Guild on the PS4 NA and a GM and officer on the PC side also.
So my KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON FACT not some fancy idle thoughts.

How the Capital City Trading really works is 7 major guilds and 5 alliance guilds make up 12 of the capital city trader spots,plus the 5 back up bid spots that can be flipped if guilds when primary bid. That's 17 big time spots held down by a few.
So how it works usually is Friday/Saturday nite via group text,FB messenger,face time depending who starts the meeting each decides who will bid what spot and where to bid the back ups.(you ever wonder how they can magically move around each city and never lose their spot) it's pre determined amongst the group .

But back on topic: If you Guild has you pay a weekly fee of over 10k plus the following, run away asap.
1. Raffle
2. Raffle donations
3. Guild Auctions
4. 50/50
5. Gold donations.

If they are running these and as members concerned about where the gold is going demand the following for total transparency.
A pic of the app used to determine the raffle and 50/50 winner posted on guilds FB page or Community page
A pic of total Gold gained in Guild Auction plus a list of all items sold and how much sold for posted to guild pages.

Also you can ask that ALL transactions be visible to all members regardless of rank be available to all.
If you get the excuse of spies ...... Lol most of us GM's know the bid range of each capital city trading zone within a small margin of error. ITS NO BIG SECRET.

Also if you are paying a weekly fee for a Trader and cannot withdraw from guild bank but you can deposit be VERY VERY careful and track it. You may fined that alot of purps,blues,greens are being withdrawn and deconed to sell and or to use in their houses.this is gold either way people are making off you the members.

Further more 2 Rawl ka traders were fake at 9:05 Sunday nite and by Midnight had been flipped . Each fake bid was around 4.5 mill and each was flipped for 7 mill. Those fake/back up traders were bid with GUILD MEMBER DUES neither 2.5 million profit as of today has been deposited into guild banks but I bet whos bank that money went to.

For my fellow GMS nobody forced us to do this we created and started these Guilds . Furthermore nobody forced any of us to join the capital city trading rat race. That was the choice made by us the GMs not the members.Also I'm ashamed at some of the liberal like scare tactics you see in guild chat, like this one " If we don't raise the dues we are gonna lose our trader and the guild will DIE". Where all you do is move to the next tier down and sell just fine with no headaches.

A note to guild members who are weary of such things a Guild does just ask for total Transparency and VERY VERY important do not fall for the typical things you will get in chat from some GMS/OFFICERS
1. Love you guys
2. You guys rock
3. We really value you guys
4. It's a team effort ( but only a few make the decisions)

Because you may wake up one day to log on and your inbox will be full of expired items. You will check to see that a Guild that loved either kicked you and or the GM emptied the entire Guild bank and disbanded.

1. MASTER MERCHANTS one of the top if not top Mournhold Trading Guild at one time - GM took millions of gold and poof.
2. TMK - which was one of the most successful a Free Trader Guilds - one day the GM decided she was out and poof. There was actually a very long topic on this forum from members who woke up to thier Guild gone.

Again this reply is simply to let players in guilds and who are thinking of joining guilds to be careful and make sure Guilds you join are Transparent about all a Guilds assets.
Also to call [snip] on there is no corruption in the Trader system.

Thumbs down for the politcal reference. "Libruls" have nothing to do with ESO.
[edited to remove quote]

Medakon · July 2017

Just gona put this out there.

All the big guild traders is working together, and has private websites where they share information with others, like how much ppl bid on each traders, how much everyone is selling, how much gold ppl has in bank etc.

They do this to not bid on the same traders, and try to controll the market.
People are corrupt, and has deals with gold sellers to earn money IRL.

I could name lots of guilds doing this, as I have access to these websites since I was founder of the trading guild Payday (EU-PC), but sold out because of these stuff.

Please zenimax, take controll and remove guild traders, and make a global Auction house.

medusasfolly · July 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

I just recently left a guild with 10k a week dues.. Bank was loaded and only getting more loaded while they always held a top spot. The amount just seemed like to much.. They have enough gold to win the spot they want 100 times over, and the dues went up to 10k when clearly the guild had no trouble at all with 5k. Just seemed greedy.

While this particular guld may actually be greedy, you can't just assume that in general. Our guild prepared for six months for our move to Rawlkha. During that time, the guild coffers seemed overflowing to the general members. But the leaders knew that Rawlkha was going to be a big jump in trader cost and we were saving up for it so we could sustain any bidding wars that might occur with us kicking another guild out of that city. Sundays for the first month in Rawlkha were very stressful.

There have also been times when our bank has been buffed because we were about to do a sales competition and the extra gold was the prize money. There have also been times when money has "passed through" the guild bank to disguise trader bids. Additionally, we keep a buffer amount to cover unusual situations, like a guild trying to oust us from our trader spot.

Any of the above things may appear as if we were just greedy and hoarding gold. Not the case. If not you're part of the group that actually runs the guild, you don't know what's going on with the gold, you're just assuming. And if you're assuming the worst, it's probably better for you and the guild for you to find a new home.

idk · July 2017

I cannot believe this thread is continuing. Really an easy solution. Find a new guild.

Prof_Bawbag · July 2017

As i said previously, 15k is too steep, but if you think guilds should be free, then like everyone else, you're also free to create your own one and charge nothing. Your guild, your rules.

Jeremy · July 2017

.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

sylviermoone wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Should be no more than 5k. 15k is being too greedy. That said, if people think trading guilds should be free, then they shouldn't go expecting Mournhold, front crag etc. Still amazed at the amount of people who think taxes etc cover the required 3-6m required to get these places on console. I have no idea what the prices are like on PC, so that may be a different story. If guilds charge nothing and they're getting these traders, then it's safe to say it's the GM pumping all that gold in and making a loss.

I've never been in a guild that requires dues on PC, and I'm in Rawl'kha, Mournhold, and Belkarth.

Maybe it's a console thing, but the cut from sales should be more than enough to cover the bidding costs.

It should be.....but it isn't, on any platform, as far as I'm aware.

In order to cover the going bid for a trader in a major hub on PC/NA from TAXES ALONE, the guild AS A WHOLE would need to sell well OVER 200 MILLION in goods every week. And that's a lowball bid in some areas, which leaves the guild vulnerable to losing the bid.

Nonsense. All of my guilds have held their traders for 6-12+ months, in the most competitive spots.

I've never heard of a single trading guild that requires dues on PC (and I have friends in a lot of top trading guilds, in addition to the ones I'm in). Sales + optional raffle tickets are more than enough to cover bidding prices.

If you're going in for a 100% secure bid every time, you're probably overbidding. There aren't many guilds that can take your spot.

Very rarely have I been in trading guilds on the PC that doesn't at least require you to make a certain amount of gold each week in sales. Technically I suppose that's not the same as having dues - but it is still a gold requirement you are expected to make or be expelled.

FelixTheCatt · July 2017

Avoid the big five trade guilds on Ps4 NA side completely ,you'll be fine. Don't buy from them and advise others in game to do so as well. Expose their shady crap while helping others to avoid the pitfalls.

TARAFRAKA · July 2017

Exodium wrote: »

Lol I've just been kicked from Back Alley Trading for not paying their 15k a week fee only 3 days after deadline. I've been working till late and lag at night when I get home so I can only play on weekends, which isn't enough to justify that fee atm until ZOS sorts out their servers.

This is the problem with fixed guild fees. No flexibility whatsoever.

Nice way to treat its members. Good riddance.

a kiosk week is only 7 days. you didnt pay your rent for that kiosk. 3 days late is almost half the sales week. why keep you in there when they can pull someone else in whos actively playing and selling? you acknowledge you dont play enough to justify the fee and you admit you didnt pay the fee.

you also didnt say you messsaged any officers to let them know you couldnt or wouldnt be online so why would you expect preferential treatment carrying you on the roster for free?

but they are the bad guys?

if i rent you a home for 15k every month and almost half the month goes by and you havent paid or called, id be well within my right to have you vacate the space.

And Im not on PS4 so dont say Im someone from that guild sticking up for them. Not my platform.

This just struck me as entitlement. You have one job, pay the fee. They have one job, secure the trader. They held up their end. YOU didnt.

If you dont have the time or ability due to lag to play regularly, then you shouldnt stay in the guild anyway! what, were you just going to stay to see how long theyd carry you for free?

MalagenR · July 2017

These big trading guilds have some of the best players in them. The people crying on the forums are complainers. The people we serve are the customers who come to our store and buy our wares at fair market prices. Yeah, we have dues, to ensure a constant trader, so volume is always moving. The "Free Trade" guilds? I went and visited some of their stores these past couple of days.

Really, really, really, bad stock. I like being in dues only trade guild, we will ALWAYS have good stuff for sale. Customers will know they can rely on us. They'll look out for our tag. *** only makes sense. We create an exclusive atmosphere so our customers can come get the best value for their gold. We remove any people who aren't willing to pay the dues to keep a trader and build a reputation at that stall because the reality is if they are complaining about 15kg they probably don't sell anything.

Lots of entitled brats here.

geonsocal · July 2017

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

Avoid the big five trade guilds on Ps4 NA side completely ,you'll be fine. Don't buy from them and advise others in game to do so as well. Expose their shady crap while helping others to avoid the pitfalls.

whoa - let's not go getting crazy now...i had a really good day in sales with Back Alley Trading yesterday...

all protests aside - make sure y'all come buy my crap/stuff

Junkkis · July 2017

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

MalagenR · July 2017

I play casual and I'm not being screwed, you're just freaking lazy. There is nothing stopping you from paying for a spot in the guild once a month to sell your *** after it's accumulate over a couple of casual weeks. I drop out of both trading guilds sometimes to do this.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · July 2017

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

DaveMoeDee · July 2017

Junkkis wrote: »

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

I might agree with this. Except I probably play 1-2 hours a day on average. Difference is, I stockpiled motifs by grinding during the anniversary and keep flipping those. Plus furniture recipes still sell well and are all over the place. I am able to maintain a slot in a decent trading guild, despite not aiming to get stuff to sell regularly.

DaveMoeDee · July 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

GreyWolf_79 · July 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Junkkis wrote: »

tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.

I might agree with this. Except I probably play 1-2 hours a day on average. Difference is, I stockpiled motifs by grinding during the anniversary and keep flipping those. Plus furniture recipes still sell well and are all over the place. I am able to maintain a slot in a decent trading guild, despite not aiming to get stuff to sell regularly.

"I'm easily able to afford paying 100k a week in dues because my guild gets the best spot and I'm able to sell 200k worth of stuffs. Therefore this system is great, and anyone who can't afford 100k a week or doesn't feel like paying 100k a week shouldn't be allowed to sell anything anyway because they're useless plebs with nothing worth selling."

Does that more or less sum up your essential argument against an open auction house? Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted you.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · July 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:

The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.

Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.

Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.

So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.

Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).

I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.

Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?

You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.

And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.

And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?

Alright, my bad. With Cyrodil you sometimes have to press two buttons AND wait in a virtual line depending on your campaign. Silly me.

Grouping is related to selling in the same sense that PvP, PvE, and trading all exist within the same global economy. If you can't see the imbalance in what each aspect of the game requires from the other, then you haven't really been following along with what I've written.

geonsocal · July 2017

well said @Crafts_Many_Boxes ...

as is unfortunately the case with most threads that go longer than 2 pages or so - a lot of the discussion begins to devolve in to personal insults...

where this infatuation with digging in to relatively complete strangers come from - i have no idea...i guess it's just human nature or competitive pride???

I would absolutely love a system that gave everyone an equal footing in selling their wares - from those mega farmers selling stacks of wax/tempers/rosin/kuta's and what not - to the newbie whom just busted out of the wailing prison but, happened to stumble upon some valuable motif inside a random crate while trying to outpace lyris' extremely annoying voice...

until then - we have what we have...i think it's marvelous though for us to have these type discussions...the more info/input/feedback i can see, read and process - the better off i am in making decisions which affect my gameplay...

i'm still a proud member of the very first guild i joined (Trader's Refuge)...and, yeah sure - i could most likely find a better guild trader deal than Back Alley Trading - however - i really like being in the guild...heck, it's in my signature block...i grinded hard to get to the point where i actually had enough stuff to sell and could afford the weekly fees for one of the top tier trading guilds...

hopefully this thread has been helpful to others - it definitely was to me...

if anything, i think what folks should really take away from this thread - come find my guild traders and buy my stuff!!!