Let's be very clear here, to say Guild Trader corruption doesn't exist on the NA PS4 server is an blatant lie.
I'm the GM of a 495 Free Trading Guild who has maintained a trader every week but 10 since traders were established.
I'm also an officer in each a Wayrest and Eldenroot Trading Guild on the PS4 NA and a GM and officer on the PC side also.
So my KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON FACT not some fancy idle thoughts.
How the Capital City Trading really works is 7 major guilds and 5 alliance guilds make up 12 of the capital city trader spots,plus the 5 back up bid spots that can be flipped if guilds when primary bid. That's 17 big time spots held down by a few.
So how it works usually is Friday/Saturday nite via group text,FB messenger,face time depending who starts the meeting each decides who will bid what spot and where to bid the back ups.(you ever wonder how they can magically move around each city and never lose their spot) it's pre determined amongst the group .
But back on topic: If you Guild has you pay a weekly fee of over 10k plus the following, run away asap.
1. Raffle
2. Raffle donations
3. Guild Auctions
4. 50/50
5. Gold donations.
If they are running these and as members concerned about where the gold is going demand the following for total transparency.
A pic of the app used to determine the raffle and 50/50 winner posted on guilds FB page or Community page
A pic of total Gold gained in Guild Auction plus a list of all items sold and how much sold for posted to guild pages.
Also you can ask that ALL transactions be visible to all members regardless of rank be available to all.
If you get the excuse of spies ...... Lol most of us GM's know the bid range of each capital city trading zone within a small margin of error. ITS NO BIG SECRET.
Also if you are paying a weekly fee for a Trader and cannot withdraw from guild bank but you can deposit be VERY VERY careful and track it. You may fined that alot of purps,blues,greens are being withdrawn and deconed to sell and or to use in their houses.this is gold either way people are making off you the members.
Further more 2 Rawl ka traders were fake at 9:05 Sunday nite and by Midnight had been flipped . Each fake bid was around 4.5 mill and each was flipped for 7 mill. Those fake/back up traders were bid with GUILD MEMBER DUES neither 2.5 million profit as of today has been deposited into guild banks but I bet whos bank that money went to.
For my fellow GMS nobody forced us to do this we created and started these Guilds . Furthermore nobody forced any of us to join the capital city trading rat race. That was the choice made by us the GMs not the members.Also I'm ashamed at some of the liberal like scare tactics you see in guild chat, like this one " If we don't raise the dues we are gonna lose our trader and the guild will DIE". Where all you do is move to the next tier down and sell just fine with no headaches.
A note to guild members who are weary of such things a Guild does just ask for total Transparency and VERY VERY important do not fall for the typical things you will get in chat from some GMS/OFFICERS
1. Love you guys
2. You guys rock
3. We really value you guys
4. It's a team effort ( but only a few make the decisions)
Because you may wake up one day to log on and your inbox will be full of expired items. You will check to see that a Guild that loved either kicked you and or the GM emptied the entire Guild bank and disbanded.
1. MASTER MERCHANTS one of the top if not top Mournhold Trading Guild at one time - GM took millions of gold and poof.
2. TMK - which was one of the most successful a Free Trader Guilds - one day the GM decided she was out and poof. There was actually a very long topic on this forum from members who woke up to thier Guild gone.
Again this reply is simply to let players in guilds and who are thinking of joining guilds to be careful and make sure Guilds you join are Transparent about all a Guilds assets.
Also to call [snip] on there is no corruption in the Trader system.
AzraelKrieg wrote: »Must be a console thing. I do not know of any guilds in PC-NA that charge the members
That means they are not selling well.
a good trading guild already has the sales to get the spot.
I honestly believe it's these greedy GM's who are also stuffing a lot of the gold in their banks for themselves. Granted of course that the prices for guild traders a week in places like Mournhold and Elden Root are obnoxiously expensive, they make more than enough gold to pay for their spot. And plus, a lot of these guilds are at max capacity. So let's put that into proper perspective. 15k multiplied by 500 is 7.5M a week. That's just assuming that everyone pays their dues. That's not including: Sells that are made, donations, etc. It's ridiculous.
Let's be very clear here, to say Guild Trader corruption doesn't exist on the NA PS4 server is an blatant lie.
I'm the GM of a 495 Free Trading Guild who has maintained a trader every week but 10 since traders were established.
I'm also an officer in each a Wayrest and Eldenroot Trading Guild on the PS4 NA and a GM and officer on the PC side also.
So my KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON FACT not some fancy idle thoughts.
How the Capital City Trading really works is 7 major guilds and 5 alliance guilds make up 12 of the capital city trader spots,plus the 5 back up bid spots that can be flipped if guilds when primary bid. That's 17 big time spots held down by a few.
So how it works usually is Friday/Saturday nite via group text,FB messenger,face time depending who starts the meeting each decides who will bid what spot and where to bid the back ups.(you ever wonder how they can magically move around each city and never lose their spot) it's pre determined amongst the group .
But back on topic: If you Guild has you pay a weekly fee of over 10k plus the following, run away asap.
1. Raffle
2. Raffle donations
3. Guild Auctions
4. 50/50
5. Gold donations.
If they are running these and as members concerned about where the gold is going demand the following for total transparency.
A pic of the app used to determine the raffle and 50/50 winner posted on guilds FB page or Community page
A pic of total Gold gained in Guild Auction plus a list of all items sold and how much sold for posted to guild pages.
Also you can ask that ALL transactions be visible to all members regardless of rank be available to all.
If you get the excuse of spies ...... Lol most of us GM's know the bid range of each capital city trading zone within a small margin of error. ITS NO BIG SECRET.
Also if you are paying a weekly fee for a Trader and cannot withdraw from guild bank but you can deposit be VERY VERY careful and track it. You may fined that alot of purps,blues,greens are being withdrawn and deconed to sell and or to use in their houses.this is gold either way people are making off you the members.
Further more 2 Rawl ka traders were fake at 9:05 Sunday nite and by Midnight had been flipped . Each fake bid was around 4.5 mill and each was flipped for 7 mill. Those fake/back up traders were bid with GUILD MEMBER DUES neither 2.5 million profit as of today has been deposited into guild banks but I bet whos bank that money went to.
For my fellow GMS nobody forced us to do this we created and started these Guilds . Furthermore nobody forced any of us to join the capital city trading rat race. That was the choice made by us the GMs not the members.Also I'm ashamed at some of the liberal like scare tactics you see in guild chat, like this one " If we don't raise the dues we are gonna lose our trader and the guild will DIE". Where all you do is move to the next tier down and sell just fine with no headaches.
A note to guild members who are weary of such things a Guild does just ask for total Transparency and VERY VERY important do not fall for the typical things you will get in chat from some GMS/OFFICERS
1. Love you guys
2. You guys rock
3. We really value you guys
4. It's a team effort ( but only a few make the decisions)
Because you may wake up one day to log on and your inbox will be full of expired items. You will check to see that a Guild that loved either kicked you and or the GM emptied the entire Guild bank and disbanded.
1. MASTER MERCHANTS one of the top if not top Mournhold Trading Guild at one time - GM took millions of gold and poof.
2. TMK - which was one of the most successful a Free Trader Guilds - one day the GM decided she was out and poof. There was actually a very long topic on this forum from members who woke up to thier Guild gone.
Again this reply is simply to let players in guilds and who are thinking of joining guilds to be careful and make sure Guilds you join are Transparent about all a Guilds assets.
Also to call [snip] on there is no corruption in the Trader system.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I am in a Guild Trader in Rawlka that requires 15k worth of raffle tickets or 400k of sales a week. Considering things sell faster and for more money in Rawlka than anywhere else on PC/NA, the investment is more than worth it IMO. I left a trader in Deshaan that was free, and no way I would ever go back. 15K is spare change in this game if I am being candid. That, and our raffle has a top prize of a million gold. I would buy that many tickets even if it wasnt a requirement.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I am in a Guild Trader in Rawlka that requires 15k worth of raffle tickets or 400k of sales a week. Considering things sell faster and for more money in Rawlka than anywhere else on PC/NA, the investment is more than worth it IMO. I left a trader in Deshaan that was free, and no way I would ever go back. 15K is spare change in this game if I am being candid. That, and our raffle has a top prize of a million gold. I would buy that many tickets even if it wasnt a requirement.
Ok, well the guild in question does not care about minimum sales, and it doesn't matter if you buy into raffles or not.... You still pay 15k/week dues. These are two totally different situations. I could sell 3 million in stuff in a week, buy 20k worth of raffle tickets, and still be required to pay 15k just like the guy who only logged in on Sunday to pay his guild dues.
The main concern is that everyone knows 15k is not necessary. This arbitrary number comes from no other collection of people than those enforcing it. Everyone even remotely educated on the trader scene on PS4 NA knows there is a collection of large guilds that are an alliance with one another and they control who gets what trader. Obviously not every guild is mushy mushy with one another which leads to trader bids going to ridiculous amounts, and members pay for this.
ZoS should add guild management tools. They could literally add a guild fee option that would be able to be set by GMs. Free, 5k, 10k, etc. or x amount of sales. Perhaps even x amount of gold and each sale reduces this amount based on the sale amount. Anything is better than the monopoly on the economy that we currently have. Established guilds can literally charge whatever dues they want and people will tag along with it because their logic is "well I make 200k a week, what does another 5k in dues matter?" In reality that is 5k more than you had to pay last week, 10k more than you had to pay 3 months ago, etc. WHY?
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I am in a Guild Trader in Rawlka that requires 15k worth of raffle tickets or 400k of sales a week. Considering things sell faster and for more money in Rawlka than anywhere else on PC/NA, the investment is more than worth it IMO. I left a trader in Deshaan that was free, and no way I would ever go back. 15K is spare change in this game if I am being candid. That, and our raffle has a top prize of a million gold. I would buy that many tickets even if it wasnt a requirement.
Ok, well the guild in question does not care about minimum sales, and it doesn't matter if you buy into raffles or not.... You still pay 15k/week dues. These are two totally different situations. I could sell 3 million in stuff in a week, buy 20k worth of raffle tickets, and still be required to pay 15k just like the guy who only logged in on Sunday to pay his guild dues.
The main concern is that everyone knows 15k is not necessary. This arbitrary number comes from no other collection of people than those enforcing it. Everyone even remotely educated on the trader scene on PS4 NA knows there is a collection of large guilds that are an alliance with one another and they control who gets what trader. Obviously not every guild is mushy mushy with one another which leads to trader bids going to ridiculous amounts, and members pay for this.
ZoS should add guild management tools. They could literally add a guild fee option that would be able to be set by GMs. Free, 5k, 10k, etc. or x amount of sales. Perhaps even x amount of gold and each sale reduces this amount based on the sale amount. Anything is better than the monopoly on the economy that we currently have. Established guilds can literally charge whatever dues they want and people will tag along with it because their logic is "well I make 200k a week, what does another 5k in dues matter?" In reality that is 5k more than you had to pay last week, 10k more than you had to pay 3 months ago, etc. WHY?
The competition for prime traders spots is increasing weekly. GMs are willing to pay more and more for spots because they don't want to disappoint their guild mates. They also want the prestige of having the best trading guild on the server. So in order to maintain this they charge more and more. This is not sustainable though. In order to pay the weekly dues, prices will start to climb as well. People will stop buying.The guild dues will become too high for anyone to afford and people will stop paying and get kicked. Then the guild will decline and ultimately fail. At some point they will hit the glass ceiling and it will all collapse.
I am in one of the top trading guilds and my sales have been horrible for the last two weeks. So I am considering dropping out of that guild. 15K per week for 10K in sales is not what I had hoped for. My prices are competitive and often below what others are charging but yet no one is buying. Oh well!
I may just go to Belkarth and start selling in the open market. No Dues, 100% profit to me!
I just recently left a guild with 10k a week dues.. Bank was loaded and only getting more loaded while they always held a top spot. The amount just seemed like to much.. They have enough gold to win the spot they want 100 times over, and the dues went up to 10k when clearly the guild had no trouble at all with 5k. Just seemed greedy.
AzraelKrieg wrote: »Must be a console thing. I do not know of any guilds in PC-NA that charge the members
Let's be very clear here, to say Guild Trader corruption doesn't exist on the NA PS4 server is an blatant lie.
I'm the GM of a 495 Free Trading Guild who has maintained a trader every week but 10 since traders were established.
I'm also an officer in each a Wayrest and Eldenroot Trading Guild on the PS4 NA and a GM and officer on the PC side also.
So my KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON FACT not some fancy idle thoughts.
How the Capital City Trading really works is 7 major guilds and 5 alliance guilds make up 12 of the capital city trader spots,plus the 5 back up bid spots that can be flipped if guilds when primary bid. That's 17 big time spots held down by a few.
So how it works usually is Friday/Saturday nite via group text,FB messenger,face time depending who starts the meeting each decides who will bid what spot and where to bid the back ups.(you ever wonder how they can magically move around each city and never lose their spot) it's pre determined amongst the group .
But back on topic: If you Guild has you pay a weekly fee of over 10k plus the following, run away asap.
1. Raffle
2. Raffle donations
3. Guild Auctions
4. 50/50
5. Gold donations.
If they are running these and as members concerned about where the gold is going demand the following for total transparency.
A pic of the app used to determine the raffle and 50/50 winner posted on guilds FB page or Community page
A pic of total Gold gained in Guild Auction plus a list of all items sold and how much sold for posted to guild pages.
Also you can ask that ALL transactions be visible to all members regardless of rank be available to all.
If you get the excuse of spies ...... Lol most of us GM's know the bid range of each capital city trading zone within a small margin of error. ITS NO BIG SECRET.
Also if you are paying a weekly fee for a Trader and cannot withdraw from guild bank but you can deposit be VERY VERY careful and track it. You may fined that alot of purps,blues,greens are being withdrawn and deconed to sell and or to use in their houses.this is gold either way people are making off you the members.
Further more 2 Rawl ka traders were fake at 9:05 Sunday nite and by Midnight had been flipped . Each fake bid was around 4.5 mill and each was flipped for 7 mill. Those fake/back up traders were bid with GUILD MEMBER DUES neither 2.5 million profit as of today has been deposited into guild banks but I bet whos bank that money went to.
For my fellow GMS nobody forced us to do this we created and started these Guilds . Furthermore nobody forced any of us to join the capital city trading rat race. That was the choice made by us the GMs not the members.Also I'm ashamed at some of the liberal like scare tactics you see in guild chat, like this one " If we don't raise the dues we are gonna lose our trader and the guild will DIE". Where all you do is move to the next tier down and sell just fine with no headaches.
A note to guild members who are weary of such things a Guild does just ask for total Transparency and VERY VERY important do not fall for the typical things you will get in chat from some GMS/OFFICERS
1. Love you guys
2. You guys rock
3. We really value you guys
4. It's a team effort ( but only a few make the decisions)
Because you may wake up one day to log on and your inbox will be full of expired items. You will check to see that a Guild that loved either kicked you and or the GM emptied the entire Guild bank and disbanded.
1. MASTER MERCHANTS one of the top if not top Mournhold Trading Guild at one time - GM took millions of gold and poof.
2. TMK - which was one of the most successful a Free Trader Guilds - one day the GM decided she was out and poof. There was actually a very long topic on this forum from members who woke up to thier Guild gone.
Again this reply is simply to let players in guilds and who are thinking of joining guilds to be careful and make sure Guilds you join are Transparent about all a Guilds assets.
Also to call [snip] on there is no corruption in the Trader system.
I just recently left a guild with 10k a week dues.. Bank was loaded and only getting more loaded while they always held a top spot. The amount just seemed like to much.. They have enough gold to win the spot they want 100 times over, and the dues went up to 10k when clearly the guild had no trouble at all with 5k. Just seemed greedy.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »sylviermoone wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Should be no more than 5k. 15k is being too greedy. That said, if people think trading guilds should be free, then they shouldn't go expecting Mournhold, front crag etc. Still amazed at the amount of people who think taxes etc cover the required 3-6m required to get these places on console. I have no idea what the prices are like on PC, so that may be a different story. If guilds charge nothing and they're getting these traders, then it's safe to say it's the GM pumping all that gold in and making a loss.
I've never been in a guild that requires dues on PC, and I'm in Rawl'kha, Mournhold, and Belkarth.
Maybe it's a console thing, but the cut from sales should be more than enough to cover the bidding costs.
It should be.....but it isn't, on any platform, as far as I'm aware.
In order to cover the going bid for a trader in a major hub on PC/NA from TAXES ALONE, the guild AS A WHOLE would need to sell well OVER 200 MILLION in goods every week. And that's a lowball bid in some areas, which leaves the guild vulnerable to losing the bid.
Nonsense. All of my guilds have held their traders for 6-12+ months, in the most competitive spots.
I've never heard of a single trading guild that requires dues on PC (and I have friends in a lot of top trading guilds, in addition to the ones I'm in). Sales + optional raffle tickets are more than enough to cover bidding prices.
If you're going in for a 100% secure bid every time, you're probably overbidding. There aren't many guilds that can take your spot.
Lol I've just been kicked from Back Alley Trading for not paying their 15k a week fee only 3 days after deadline. I've been working till late and lag at night when I get home so I can only play on weekends, which isn't enough to justify that fee atm until ZOS sorts out their servers.
This is the problem with fixed guild fees. No flexibility whatsoever.
Nice way to treat its members. Good riddance.
FelixTheCatt wrote: »Avoid the big five trade guilds on Ps4 NA side completely ,you'll be fine. Don't buy from them and advise others in game to do so as well. Expose their shady crap while helping others to avoid the pitfalls.
tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.
Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:
The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.
Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.
Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.
So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.
Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).
I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.
Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?
DaveMoeDee wrote: »tis game need AH. current system only benefits players that play a lot. if u are casual who play 1-2 hour in day u screwed.
I might agree with this. Except I probably play 1-2 hours a day on average. Difference is, I stockpiled motifs by grinding during the anniversary and keep flipping those. Plus furniture recipes still sell well and are all over the place. I am able to maintain a slot in a decent trading guild, despite not aiming to get stuff to sell regularly.
DaveMoeDee wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »I think the bottom line of this sub-argument is as such:
The players who want an AH don't want a game inside of their game. We just want a means to dump all our extra crap and make a little bit of extra gold from players who might actually need said crap. It's really that simple.
Those who support the current system argue back, saying that they enjoy the current system and shouldn't have to conform to players who want an easier, lower time-intensive means of participating in the economy.
Here's the problem: there is only ONE economy. PvPers, PvErs, Traders, and even RPers all only have one economy, because gold is the only in-game currency.
So right now, even though everything revolves around gold, many PvE / PvP players who would prefer to do actual PvP / PvE things can't really make any gold / participate in the economy, because they can't justify putting the time in. Hint: many of us don't have the time to do both in ANY capacity. It's not a matter of being lazy or being entitled, we're just tired of being screwed over because the economy of the game actively works against us and our preferred playstyle.
Conclusion: there is no way to make everyone happy and keep one unified currency, unless PvP and PvE content suddenly generates enough gold to sustain itself (which it currently doesn't even come close to doing).
I realize this thread was originally about guild fees, but the discontent over guild fees stems from all of this. A dedicated trader probably wouldn't have any issue with such costs, but the whole basis of my argument is that one should not have to dedicate themselves to a certain playstyle (trading) to be able to participate in trading.
Look at it this way: ANY player can jump into the random dungeon que at ANY time, even veteran dungeons if they're 50+. ANY group of players can jump into a trial, all they have to do is physically go there. ANY player can jump into Cyrodil. Why can't any PvE / PvPer sell their stuff on a whim, without having to roam the streets for hours shouting "WTS X" like a buffoon?
You can only jump into your faction in Cyrodiil and you have to wait for a slot to open up. It is not as open and free as you try to say it is.
And that is irrelevant anyway. Grouping is not selling and selling is not grouping.
And how do gamers still not know how to spell queue?