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We need a vet area a real challenge (lots of reading)
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, you had to be in phase on quest, if you could do it with anybody like dungeon quests it would not been an issue.DRXHarbinger wrote: »The issue with the old Craglorn wasn't the difficulty it was the quest phasing. I solod it all up until you had to stand on 4 platforms and it killed it off. All they ever needed to do was remove that not remove it and nerf it.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nothing wrong with a difficult, challenging zone. (aslong as its rewarding)
Everything wrong with forced grouping. Quests and storys in zones should always be soloable. I dont want to put up with other ppl, and they shouldnt have to put up with me for that. The biggest problem for me:
Waiting:
- cause somebody wants full immersion and is listening to dialogue ( or ppl making u feel u should skip dialogues u'd like to listen to, so u dont waste their time)
- cause smokebreak
- cause dog/cat/kid whatever funny mammal in someones home is invading gaming hours
- someones on the door
- parential control units demand attention
Nothing wrong with any of those, i like to play on my pace, everyone should be okay playing on its.
For groupcontent, i make sure that i do have the needed timeframe before even starting (which is usually 30 mins to 1 h), its "easy" to plan for that, zonequests, not so much, can take the whole day if u keep going.3 -
Zordrage✭✭✭✭✭Yeah no...
Lets not pigeonhole everyone in a single Meta build for their class to be able to do content .................
because you prety much suggesting a zone that is made for the top meta builds only.....Edited by Zordrage on July 18, 2017 10:01AM5 -
supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭Yeah no...
Lets not pigeonhole everyone in a single Meta build for their class to be able to do content .................
because you prety much suggesting a zone that is made for the top meta builds only.....
and this is why it will never work, people will just say things like i have quoted and then the "hard" content will be dumbed down by ZOS and become a faceroll and its bye bye challenge.
Like it or not end game content (trials in particular) in this game is ruled by classes with meta builds, do you want that dumbing down also so you can face roll that ?Edited by supaskrub on July 18, 2017 10:16AM0 -
bloodthirstyvampire✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even vma, vet dlc dungeons and vet trails are just to predictable once you complete it0 -
Khumbu✭✭✭Have you "too easy" whiners beat VRoM? VCoS? What's your vMoL score? And if you insist on solo challenges, then go have fun in vet Maelstrom! There's plenty of difficult content in the game if you know where to look.
And if you want the old school MMO style of difficult outdoor content, where you can't move three feet in any direction without getting steamrolled unless you're in a 5 man, go reinstall EQ1. An MMO hasn't had successful challenging outdoor content since the early 2000s; it's just not what the masses want anymore.2 -
Trashkan✭✭✭I went to craglorn and that stuff was fun I remember the full raid parties out there killing world bosses. I miss the good old days. Make this game challenging again. Please:-)0
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notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭Normally I would say no, but maybe something small like new vet dungeons like the history dungeons
Really though, the reason most mmorpgs have hard difficulties in raids and dungeons it to please the hardcore minority. The vast majority of mmorpgs players are casuals. They play for fun and to feel strong and in control. They want simple content they can 'play their way'0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They used to have areas like this. Imperial sewers used to be more challenging, as was craglorn. I actually enjoyed those areas because of it. Now they bore me to tears.
Bad players really kill the fun in this game.1 -
tunepunk✭✭✭✭✭When i want a challenge I go solo Vet dungeons. I never fully completed any yet, but I made it to last boss on a few, with a couple of deaths usually. But I agree...
Regular content... There's no sense of danger anywhere, no instakill traps, nothing to fear. I want places where I have to watch my every move, carefully plan how to engage a group of enemies. No reward needed, it's reward enough to make it through, alive.1 -
Balsagna✭✭✭✭I went to craglorn and that stuff was fun I remember the full raid parties out there killing world bosses. I miss the good old days. Make this game challenging again. Please:-)
You guys do realize they need lots of people to play the game right? Not the 2% of the game that goes to the forums. If you want this game to die and have 1000 people playing it then yes, please make the game so hard that only veteran players can enjoy it.
If you want a challenge then gimp yourself and run the same content. Take your cps off and go punch world bosses.4 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭We had something sort of like this with the original Craglorn. No one ever went there.
Bullcrap craglorn was packed. What emptied it was them leaving it untouched for a year nd not scaling the rewards. Craglorn was the hub for the max lvl game for months. Then they increased vr ranks amd left the resources rewards and gear the same. No one went thier due to this not because it was to hard.enjoy this game with its constant churn . No permanent guilds and regurgitating content. No thank you it needs a new director2 -
neverwalk✭✭✭✭New mode of play: Not for Milk-drinkers = hardcore game play, where levels, armor, weapons DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. you do not level up to content, but will get big XP if you help kill WB, bosses of high levels.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Same here. It's fun taking on a large mob of great difficulty solo, and coming out on top. When the game is too easy I lose interest. Thankfully this game has PvP. It's the only thing that can challenge me at times.0 -
Remag_Div✭✭✭✭✭We had that in Craglorn. And you know what? The most fun I've ever had in a zone was Upper Craglorn. We were 3 manning it and actually dying and actually having great fun. I remember getting hit by "taking aim" for the first time lol...actually having to look out for monsters in the open world.
They nerfed it because of "too hard" crowd. Thing is that wasn't the problem. Craglorn was one of the best things the game had, it FORCED people to learn. You refuse to bash? Have a Taking Aim to the face for 140% of your health. You don't like blocking? Have 5 wasps one shot you. You don't know how to break free? Enjoy being feared into a 2-shot aoe. We had far, far less noobs refusing to acknowledge mechanics whatsoever back then.
Just yesterday I was doing a WB in Vvardenfell, the Nix Ox, and a random cp 150 ran in. The Ox is a very easy boss, basically all he does is some aoes and a life draining cc which you can break free from. Now I know it's none of my business how others want to play but...the little cp 150 literally died every single time there were aoes and he didn't break free ONCE. He had agro a lot and got that cc like 5+ times. Not even once. I mean no offence to him/her personally, but thing is now it's totally possible to be cp 160+, with access to best gear and hardest content in game...and not know how to break free. Craglorn taught you how to do that at least.
Craglorn was indeed mostly empty but thing is it wasn't because of the sheer difficulty. It was because of awful forced grouping mechanics that required not just 2-4 people but 2-4 people on the same stage of the same quest as you to proceed...that should've been hotfixed within days yet they let it go on for months, basically killing the zone. It also lacked(still does mostly) any incentive whatsoever. Super tiny xp(not talking Skyreach here, actual questing) - you're literally better off doing ANYTHING else - crap loot, not even purple quality rewards for the most part, no useful sets. Craglorn probably had the absolutely worst time/effort spent:reward ratio in the whole game. Yet it could've been a totally amazing place with what, 10+ awesome group dungeons and fun journey between them but...it was easier to just nerf it.
Tl;dr - Craglorn was/could be great in its early days but they'll never do something like that again because they're catering to the casual crowd wayyy too much and have showed time and again they'd much rather nerf the mechanics than teach people how to do them.
Great post.
I think overworld scaling that came with Tamriel Unlimited both helped and hurt the game in a way. As it stands now, most of the content in this game is *** easy and does not require anyone but yourself to complete. This was done on purpose, though. The only times you really need a group are for world bosses and the instanced dungeons and trials for the most part. So most people as they level and go along skip these things and just continue on with the story for each zone and any other solo PvE things. What happens is these people go through all this solo content and reach CP 160+ and still have no idea how to really play the game and the intricacies of combat. The entire time the game scaled to their level so they just steamrolled everything and didn't even need to use some of the advanced tactics or game systems to beat anything. Hell, they probably didn't even realize some stuff existed because the game doesn't teach you or force you to use any of it.
So what ultimately happens is these players now ask "what's the best build" or "where can I get the best gear" and have no idea how to play. They try a hard world boss or a veteran dungeon and just get obliterated because they have no idea what to do because up until that point the game was easy. The difficulty curve in this game is definitely out of whack.2 -
Zordrage✭✭✭✭✭Yeah no...
Lets not pigeonhole everyone in a single Meta build for their class to be able to do content .................Yeah no...
Lets not pigeonhole everyone in a single Meta build for their class to be able to do content .................
because you prety much suggesting a zone that is made for the top meta builds only.....
and this is why it will never work, people will just say things like i have quoted and then the "hard" content will be dumbed down by ZOS and become a faceroll and its bye bye challenge.
Like it or not end game content (trials in particular) in this game is ruled by classes with meta builds, do you want that dumbing down also so you can face roll that ?
you can do vet trials without meta builds just saying.......
content what the OP is sugessting would remove even that small ammount of freedom we have left in this game....
you know one of the selling point of the game......0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭give 1% player base content only? waste of money and time.
Because you wont be here in 2 to 4 months. And end game community is far larger then 1% . You just didnt play the game from launch to see the 600 k veteran 10 ,12,14 players screaming for content .then abondoning the game. zos pushed content out for you for near two years.now your player demographic is abondonig the game ,because zos wouldnt give you morrowind for free. Now you have a game void of any community at all its just a vapid turn style visitor center selling you stuff at the gift shop.Edited by Wifeaggro13 on July 19, 2017 1:04AM0 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
✭We had that in Craglorn. And you know what? The most fun I've ever had in a zone was Upper Craglorn. We were 3 manning it and actually dying and actually having great fun. I remember getting hit by "taking aim" for the first time lol...actually having to look out for monsters in the open world.
They nerfed it because of "too hard" crowd. Thing is that wasn't the problem. Craglorn was one of the best things the game had, it FORCED people to learn. You refuse to bash? Have a Taking Aim to the face for 140% of your health. You don't like blocking? Have 5 wasps one shot you. You don't know how to break free? Enjoy being feared into a 2-shot aoe. We had far, far less noobs refusing to acknowledge mechanics whatsoever back then.
Just yesterday I was doing a WB in Vvardenfell, the Nix Ox, and a random cp 150 ran in. The Ox is a very easy boss, basically all he does is some aoes and a life draining cc which you can break free from. Now I know it's none of my business how others want to play but...the little cp 150 literally died every single time there were aoes and he didn't break free ONCE. He had agro a lot and got that cc like 5+ times. Not even once. I mean no offence to him/her personally, but thing is now it's totally possible to be cp 160+, with access to best gear and hardest content in game...and not know how to break free. Craglorn taught you how to do that at least.
Craglorn was indeed mostly empty but thing is it wasn't because of the sheer difficulty. It was because of awful forced grouping mechanics that required not just 2-4 people but 2-4 people on the same stage of the same quest as you to proceed...that should've been hotfixed within days yet they let it go on for months, basically killing the zone. It also lacked(still does mostly) any incentive whatsoever. Super tiny xp(not talking Skyreach here, actual questing) - you're literally better off doing ANYTHING else - crap loot, not even purple quality rewards for the most part, no useful sets. Craglorn probably had the absolutely worst time/effort spent:reward ratio in the whole game. Yet it could've been a totally amazing place with what, 10+ awesome group dungeons and fun journey between them but...it was easier to just nerf it.
Tl;dr - Craglorn was/could be great in its early days but they'll never do something like that again because they're catering to the casual crowd wayyy too much and have showed time and again they'd much rather nerf the mechanics than teach people how to do them.
I still have a screen shot of getting one shot by an archer back in the day. It was like 170k damage, lol.1 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here you go. NES had the challenge you are apparently looking for in rather a lot of games.
This one in particular should keep you awake at night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vri96SdlOTw
The good ol' days. I still have nightmares and visit a shrink thanks to games like Battletoads and the original TMNT. hahaEdited by Diminish on July 19, 2017 2:00AM0 -
LadyDestiny✭✭✭✭✭The problem with this is when the hype wears off, you are left standing along trying to kill a world boss while no other players show up for days.......lol Already seeing it in morrowind.1 -
NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »We had something sort of like this with the original Craglorn. No one ever went there.
Bullcrap craglorn was packed. What emptied it was them leaving it untouched for a year nd not scaling the rewards. Craglorn was the hub for the max lvl game for months. Then they increased vr ranks amd left the resources rewards and gear the same. No one went thier due to this not because it was to hard.enjoy this game with its constant churn . No permanent guilds and regurgitating content. No thank you it needs a new director
Craglorn was packed...until ZoS gutted all the XP from the grinding groups. There used to be multiple boss farms running, anomaly grind, burial grind and tower grind. There were big groups running 24/7 and it was a good time. Unfortunately, ZoS decided that people were leveling too fast and shut it down. After that we were left with their crappy multiple step quests that everyone had to be on the same stage to run and Spellscar and Craglorn was a ghost town except for writs/surveys"it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor1 -
Kurkikohtaus✭✭✭It also lacked(still does mostly) any incentive whatsoever. Super tiny xp(not talking Skyreach here, actual questing) - you're literally better off doing ANYTHING else - crap loot, not even purple quality rewards for the most part, no useful sets. Craglorn probably had the absolutely worst time/effort spent:reward ratio in the whole .
This exactly, and not just Craglorn. I find ESO does not do a good job in rewarding/incentivizing difficult content, in many ways.
RNG weapon in vMSA, no token system
RNG traits in dungeon farming*, no token system
Poor XP/item rewards for overland group quests
If one ENJOYS the ACTIVITY itself, that is fine, but there could still be some sort of incentive that is proportional to the difficulty and invested time.
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* point of reference, I have a full divine netch set, farmed it on normal with a healer for faster queues, took 5 days and approx 60 runs. And from what I have read, I am on the luckier side.
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