Trading Guilds charging 15k/week now WTF

Artis · July 2017

Epona222 wrote: »

HEXENWOLF wrote: »

I'm a PS4 player as well and have also run into this issue recently. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, most of the prolific trading guilds on PS4 are owned and operated by the same four people. I know of one gentleman who leads four of them. Recently, when the price in one of his guilds was bumped to 15k members questioned the move. The change occurred shortly after Morrowind launched and the excuse was, "Buying guild traders in capital cities has become a lot more expensive because there is more competition. To insure that we retain a trader in a busy city we're raising guild fees."

That's all well and good, but as many have mentioned here, guild traders can almost always be acquired with gold accrued from transaction fees. What I don't doubt is that some guild leaders are padding their own bank accounts. I mean, these aren't guilds which are getting spots in out-of-the-way places. These are huge guilds, staying at or near max membership, with purges of those not paying their dues, operating in capital cities. I don't mind paying dues. I think it's reasonable to pay for a guilds upkeep - especially when members are rotating in and out as often as those in trading guilds. But 15k is an absolute scam which I'll not be taking part in.

I left the guild which started charging 15k and would strongly advise you to do the same. There are still plenty of guilds on PS4, albeit more quiet about recruitment, that are still charging 10k. And you know, it's funny cause my price is 10k and we're still securing traders in Mournhold and Wayrest. Funny how that works......

Who has said that? In what world is that possible? Which server? I can't comment on what goes on anywhere other than NA/PC, but if anyone thinks that taxes can pay for a city trader, they are living in a dreamland.

It's really this basic - if you don't donate to help pay for it, then someone else is paying for it on your behalf. Some guilds are relaxed about this, and the GM and a small number of dedicated members pay for the trader every week. In other guilds, there are no fees and the guild does fundraising which usually means the weekly trader bill is paid for by say around 20-30% of the members. And some guilds choose to charge everyone to pay for it so the cost is spread around a bit more.

If you are in a guild with a trader in a good spot and make money from the trader and expect to put nothing back in besides the automatically deducted taxes, then unless you are selling a large amount a week (hundreds of thousands) that is leeching and someone else in the guild is paying for you to have that privilege. I can absolutely 100% guarantee that.

Absolutely this. 100% true.

People who are in guilds with no requirements and don't contribute are just freeloaders and leeches. Also lucky, that those guilds have enough members to cover the bill for everyone.

Ostaradoe wrote: »

This is why I have not joined a trade guild and think it is unfair that gamers like myself who are not interested in farming lose out. I would love to join a trade guild that is happy for players to post stuff for sale as and when they want to, and not have it become a commitment. Nothing in an MMO should be a commitment. But can I find one? Nope!

Stop crying and join a guild. There are tons of guilds with no requirements. Sounds like YOU have requirements for your guilds, though. Well, you probably won't join a top guild with your approach, but A guild? Easily.

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

If you arent paying weekly dues, SOMEONE is paying them for you and you are just blind, PERIOD. Top donors, the GM, the 2nd in command, SOMEONE is paying the cost for you to have that trader in a great location each week. Make no mistake about it.

This has to appear on the loading screens sometimes.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

sylviermoone wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Should be no more than 5k. 15k is being too greedy. That said, if people think trading guilds should be free, then they shouldn't go expecting Mournhold, front crag etc. Still amazed at the amount of people who think taxes etc cover the required 3-6m required to get these places on console. I have no idea what the prices are like on PC, so that may be a different story. If guilds charge nothing and they're getting these traders, then it's safe to say it's the GM pumping all that gold in and making a loss.

I've never been in a guild that requires dues on PC, and I'm in Rawl'kha, Mournhold, and Belkarth.

Maybe it's a console thing, but the cut from sales should be more than enough to cover the bidding costs.

It should be.....but it isn't, on any platform, as far as I'm aware.

In order to cover the going bid for a trader in a major hub on PC/NA from TAXES ALONE, the guild AS A WHOLE would need to sell well OVER 200 MILLION in goods every week. And that's a lowball bid in some areas, which leaves the guild vulnerable to losing the bid.

Nonsense. All of my guilds have held their traders for 6-12+ months, in the most competitive spots.

I've never heard of a single trading guild that requires dues on PC (and I have friends in a lot of top trading guilds, in addition to the ones I'm in). Sales + optional raffle tickets are more than enough to cover bidding prices.

If you're going in for a 100% secure bid every time, you're probably overbidding. There aren't many guilds that can take your spot.

All top guilds have requirements on PC NA. If you aren't contributing - congratulations, somebody paid for you for 12 months.

@sylviermoone what addons are you using? Is there any way we could chat in pm and maybe you could share?

Diminish · July 2017

EDIT: A specific GM seemed genuinely upset about certain posts so out of respect for them I have decided to edit my posts and remove what I have contributed to this conversation.

Inarre · July 2017

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

The best trading guild im a part of creates farming opportunity for their members by holding runs biweekly... which acts as a way for members to socialize with each other and have fun, make money. One of those runs is for the members, the other for the guild. Donating an hour of time once a week while having fun is much easier to swallow than dues, especially since its never forced.

Guilds that ask for dues usually aren't doing much for their members in my experience beyond bidding on a trader. Leave and find a guild that puts effort in both making the money to cover the trader and their members, because that encourages the members to appreciate and give back.

Its a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one.

How is it a parasitic relationship if you are paying for a service? You pay and you get access to a trader in a very High selling area. They get the money they need to get the trader from you and you get access to sell that you need. That is the definition of symbiotic. You both need each other to survive.

I ran my own Guild for a year-and-a-half and we had a trader for a few months out of that time. It was incredibly stressful. Most people didn't pay even though it was only 2K and we were only bidding for Cold Harbor! I was having to put out a million gold a week for that bad location. I went broke doing it because I constantly had to supplement the money with my own gold just to make a decent bid because I didn't want to let the people down that had actually paid their dues.

This is the way it works: if youre in a guild in a great location and they very rarely lose their trader, then 5k to 15K gold week is nothing. That is literally a drop in the bucket compared to what they pay out for good locations.
Anybody that gets on here and says they don't pay anything and they never have and they would leave their Guild if they had to pay? They are parasites.

They want access to a trader with a great location but they don't want to have to put in anything for it. That sales tax covers nothing. And all 500 people do not pay that fee. You're lucky if you get 20% to do it on time. And then you're still going to come up short so you have to rely on your top donors to make up the difference for you or it comes out of your pocket. If you dont put your own money in, you risk losing a trader for an unknown time and that makes you hemmorhage paying members. They may not leave but they definitely arent paying dues so you dont have the $ to bid high to push someone else back out.
Our Trader system is a mess. It's not good for the people who maintain the best spots and it's not good for the people who can never get one.

That will depend on the guild
Any guild in a good trader spot will be making a decent amount off their cut. Not enough to cover the cost perhaps, but a good chunk. As another member noted, a full guild charging 15k per member is 7.5 mill a week. Thats not counting their sales cuts, donations or any other income. Maybe not all members will contribute, but that is not the members problem who does. Basing fees off of charging only 20% is a bad model and exactly why i illustrated another model that ive seen work for both the leader and officership and the members of the guild i am in.

What i meant by symbiotic is... The whole guild benefits from the good location by faster sales which means more profit for the guild in a cut of sales. When a guild is charging far more than their bid spot is worth every week in weekly dues on top of everything, even if its because 80% of the guild never pays, even if its not what the guild wants to do.... that is parasitic to those members who do pay up.

The argument is pointless however. You are getting offended by my terminology and i didnt intend for it to be taken that way. It is only my opinion and i only pointed out the model of a guild i enjoy as an example of ideas for others of what is both out there and a good way to get income from members if you own a guild. If you like the dues model and believe its justified and working well youre welcome to continue in those guilds.

SquareSausage · July 2017

A lot of people here wanting top quality service, but don't want to pay for it.

Says it all really about current attitudes.

DeadlyPhoenix · July 2017

So how about this. I pay 15k a week not for a trader, but to support a guild that truly does its best to provide a quality service to it's member's.

Go be the GM of a guild that does as much as one of these top tier trade guilds. Don't think for a second as well that if the GMs you have stated are taking money from their own guilds that others you're joining aren't as well... I would gladly pay an additional 15k a week to Krista herself, not the guild, just for doing what she does, if she so asked for it.

Comes down to one thing really. Some people have it, some people don't.

Loyalty.

Go cry to the lower cost guilds. Creating a rage thread about having to pay 5k more a week is the insane part. Don't like it fine, leave. Others will take your place, they always have and will as long as the people who truly care about the guilds keep them going.

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

Artis wrote: »

All top guilds have requirements on PC NA. If you aren't contributing - congratulations, somebody paid for you for 12 months.

Sales requirements are not the same as dues. None of the top guilds on PC/NA require dues.

They require that you sell a lot OR contribute with a donation/raffle purchase. They do not require contributions on top of your sales minimum.

andreasranasen · July 2017

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

So how about this. I pay 15k a week not for a trader, but to support a guild that truly does its best to provide a quality service to it's member's.

Go be the GM of a guild that does as much as one of these top tier trade guilds. Don't think for a second as well that if the GMs you have stated are taking money from their own guilds that others you're joining aren't as well... I would gladly pay an additional 15k a week to Krista herself, not the guild, just for doing what she does, if she so asked for it.

Comes down to one thing really. Some people have it, some people don't.

Loyalty.

Go cry to the lower cost guilds. Creating a rage thread about having to pay 5k more a week is the insane part. Don't like it fine, leave. Others will take your place, they always have and will as long as the people who truly care about the guilds keep them going.

You must be new here, this is far from a "rage thread' on ESO Forums Lol

xaraan · July 2017

Well, if you don't want to pay, you can always move to a guild that gets a spot that isn't as good and therefore cheaper for them to bid on. Though most guilds I've seen turn that 'fee' into a raffle donation and give you a chance to win prizes at least.

disintegr8 · July 2017

One guild I am in asks for a 5k a week 'donation' for trader access and is usually at Elden Root or Rawl'kha - both pretty active places to have traders. I don't have an issue turning over anything I want to sell, so happily donate 20k a week.

Another guild I am in just asks for donations but gives everyone access to the trader. They struggle to get enough for an out of the way trader and there is very little turnover in stock. I also donate 20k a week to this guild.

If you want to make gold by trading and don't want to spend time touting your wares in zone chat, it is worthwhile paying some fees and having a decent trader. If you are not greatly concerned about how much you sell or how quick your stuff sells, you can still find the smaller type of guild and not pay a lot.

Diminish · July 2017

EDIT: A specific GM seemed genuinely upset about certain posts so out of respect for them I have decided to edit my posts and remove what I have contributed to this conversation.

xb1LL_mr_sir_LL · July 2017

i pay 30k-40k a week in guild dues and make 2mil-3mil gold a week in sales. seems like a good deal to me.
I'd pay triple that not to have to slum it like a peasant in zone chat everyday.
pc players commenting about the console economy 95% probably don't know what they're talking about.
console isn't nicey nicey land,it's dog eat dog with a wolf around every corner.

DaveMoeDee · July 2017

Diminish wrote: »

DuchessPoptart wrote: »

Not everyone on console whines about it lol. I happily pay dues in all 5 guilds each week. 3 are 10k 1 is 7k and 1 is 5k. They always maintain their traders. It is gold well spent. I don't envy guildmasters. Its a lot of work.

You must have missed the part of this thread that says the issue is not with paying, but with the price. Until someone proves otherwise, 15k a week is insane. I can screen shot and post the MOTD of other guilds and then post screenshots of their trader location to prove 10k is more than enough in guild dues. Guilds should try other ways to make up this so called gap in trader bids rather than resort to pushing increased fees on its members right away. Its obviously possible when other guilds are doing the same thing for less weekly dues.

It is insane if you are a weak merchant. Sell more and the amount will seem small.

And complaining about the price is complaining about paying.

IronCrystal · July 2017

PC has lower dues because they can actually keep track of sales more easily.

But some guilds have sales requirements really high. ETU in Rawlkha has 400k weekly sales requirements. But they make the most money in the server as far as I know.

If you don't pay for quality, you don't get quality.

DaveMoeDee · July 2017

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

...
Comes down to one thing really. Some people have it, some people don't.

Loyalty.
...

It is not about loyalty at all. It is about affording a good kiosk.

DaveMoeDee · July 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

All top guilds have requirements on PC NA. If you aren't contributing - congratulations, somebody paid for you for 12 months.

Sales requirements are not the same as dues. None of the top guilds on PC/NA require dues.

They require that you sell a lot OR contribute with a donation/raffle purchase. They do not require contributions on top of your sales minimum.

On PC, you can have an addon that says how much everyone sold.

reguvin · July 2017

Most Guilds on Playstation 4 European Servers are FREE to Use Guildstore

not sure why Guilds on NA server is so different.

geonsocal · July 2017

okay, just to be clear - if you are taking in bazillions of coins due to you're incredible tamriel entrepreneurship let's just all assume anything less than 100k barely makes you blink...

for the vast majority of us whom maybe aren't so fiscally gifted and are hopelessly addicted to living in cyrodiil and staying geared up for fighting - coin does matter...

reference guild loyalty - very valid point in most guild situations - in regards to primarily trade guilds - maybe, just a little less so...

are there less than honorable/do right individuals in charge of guilds - i have no doubt...

as it pertains to the specific guild and gm referenced initially by OP - I think it is very safe to say the vast majority of past/present guild members are extremely appreciated of miss vegas and her efforts to provide consistent, excellently located traders (plus some other beneficial guild services) to 1,000 ps4/na players...

andreasranasen · July 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

okay, just to be clear - if you are taking in bazillions of coins due to you're incredible tamriel entrepreneurship let's just all assume anything less than 100k barely makes you blink...

for the vast majority of us whom maybe aren't so fiscally gifted and are hopelessly addicted to living in cyrodiil and staying geared up for fighting - coin does matter...

reference guild loyalty - very valid point in most guild situations - in regards to primarily trade guilds - maybe, just a little less so...

are there less than honorable/do right individuals in charge of guilds - i have no doubt...

as it pertains to the specific guild and gm referenced initially by OP - I think it is very safe to say the vast majority of past/present guild members are extremely appreciated of miss vegas and her efforts to provide consistent, excellently located traders (plus some other beneficial guild services) to 1,000 ps4/na players...

Even tho she just withdrew 9.5 mil from the bank to herself *sips tea*

geonsocal · July 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

okay, just to be clear - if you are taking in bazillions of coins due to you're incredible tamriel entrepreneurship let's just all assume anything less than 100k barely makes you blink...

for the vast majority of us whom maybe aren't so fiscally gifted and are hopelessly addicted to living in cyrodiil and staying geared up for fighting - coin does matter...

reference guild loyalty - very valid point in most guild situations - in regards to primarily trade guilds - maybe, just a little less so...

are there less than honorable/do right individuals in charge of guilds - i have no doubt...

as it pertains to the specific guild and gm referenced initially by OP - I think it is very safe to say the vast majority of past/present guild members are extremely appreciated of miss vegas and her efforts to provide consistent, excellently located traders (plus some other beneficial guild services) to 1,000 ps4/na players...

Even tho she just withdrew 9.5 mil from the bank to herself *sips tea*

note to self: don't get on andreas' poop list

andreasranasen · July 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

okay, just to be clear - if you are taking in bazillions of coins due to you're incredible tamriel entrepreneurship let's just all assume anything less than 100k barely makes you blink...

for the vast majority of us whom maybe aren't so fiscally gifted and are hopelessly addicted to living in cyrodiil and staying geared up for fighting - coin does matter...

reference guild loyalty - very valid point in most guild situations - in regards to primarily trade guilds - maybe, just a little less so...

are there less than honorable/do right individuals in charge of guilds - i have no doubt...

as it pertains to the specific guild and gm referenced initially by OP - I think it is very safe to say the vast majority of past/present guild members are extremely appreciated of miss vegas and her efforts to provide consistent, excellently located traders (plus some other beneficial guild services) to 1,000 ps4/na players...

Even tho she just withdrew 9.5 mil from the bank to herself *sips tea*

note to self: don't get on andreas' poop list

Nah I'm nice

Eshelmen · July 2017

I think part of the reason is that guilds are giving too many members "platinum" or "trustee" ranks. In which those individuals don't have to pay for the life of being in the guild any more. Or at least aren't required to put in a specific amount each week. Why? They already gave the guild a boat load of gold in the past, but now that they're top ranking members, they don't give in as much. Because they're not required to do so. And by adding too many members to this rank, you kind of mess up your normal weekly trader budget with the usual 5k(or whatever) a week required. Because there's now less people to make the payments. Either way, it screws the rest of the guild members into paying more.

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

All top guilds have requirements on PC NA. If you aren't contributing - congratulations, somebody paid for you for 12 months.

Sales requirements are not the same as dues. None of the top guilds on PC/NA require dues.

They require that you sell a lot OR contribute with a donation/raffle purchase. They do not require contributions on top of your sales minimum.

On PC, you can have an addon that says how much everyone sold.

Right, but the quote I was responding to was talking about PC NA. PC guilds don't ask for fees because they don't encourage sales.

If you have to pay 15k regardless of how much you sold, then you don't have an incentive to sell as much. They put up high sales minimums instead.

Diminish · July 2017

A specific GM seemed genuinely upset about certain posts so out of respect for them I have decided to edit my posts and remove what I have contributed to this conversation. With that said I will end my part of this discussion with this...

It was never my intention to single out a specific person, I was simply sharing my opinion on this matter. I have sent that GM a gift of 250k; hopefully they put it to use in a raffle or something that the members can participate in to help to steer this issue in the opposite direction, and to show my appreciation for the hard work they put into the guild. It's a small step, and probably pointless, but at least I can say that I was trying to be part of the solution and not the problem.

To those who feel that just because you have thousands of gold in sales a week that it is ok for guilds to increase dues for no apparent reason then you are part of the issue with the traders plaguing this game. I myself never said 15k/week dues was too much for me to afford. What I was trying to portray is that a 5k increase does nothing to help the situation; if anything it makes it worse. It makes the gap that much larger between big trader guilds and smaller trader guilds to compete for kiosk locations because now the larger guilds will have more funds; ultimately driving up trader bids and forcing smaller guilds completely out of any possible chance for a weekly trader. This is, and already has created "alliances" between these guilds; ultimately leaving the games economy in the hands of a few, rather than the many. In the real world this is called a monopoly.

Soon enough 15k/week dues will be the norm, then 20k, then 30k... when will it be acceptable by the community to raise concern about this? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer... sound familiar anyone? ZoS, please step in and rethink the trader kiosk system currently in place as it really needs an overhaul. The economy is controlled by a small number of the games population, and that is not healthy. In the end, this is just a game, and I for one am glad that I don't have to worry about the petty virtual politics behind the scenes.

geonsocal · July 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

okay, just to be clear - if you are taking in bazillions of coins due to you're incredible tamriel entrepreneurship let's just all assume anything less than 100k barely makes you blink...

for the vast majority of us whom maybe aren't so fiscally gifted and are hopelessly addicted to living in cyrodiil and staying geared up for fighting - coin does matter...

reference guild loyalty - very valid point in most guild situations - in regards to primarily trade guilds - maybe, just a little less so...

are there less than honorable/do right individuals in charge of guilds - i have no doubt...

as it pertains to the specific guild and gm referenced initially by OP - I think it is very safe to say the vast majority of past/present guild members are extremely appreciated of miss vegas and her efforts to provide consistent, excellently located traders (plus some other beneficial guild services) to 1,000 ps4/na players...

Even tho she just withdrew 9.5 mil from the bank to herself *sips tea*

@Diminish - yes unfortunately a very broad and interesting topic which affects a great many of us - guild fees - got way too specific...

if you search the deposit history - miss vegas deposited 10 million about a day or so ago...

in all honesty - for those whom have it, million coin transactions probably aren't all that rare...yeah, I'll never know

honestly though - if I had it in me to establish, maintain even a five person guild with an occasional trader in the evermore thieves guild - man, i'd felt like i really done something...everyone could just kiss my ass after that...

chess1ukb16_ESO · July 2017

Diminish wrote: »

A specific GM seemed genuinely upset about certain posts so out of respect for them I have decided to edit my posts and remove what I have contributed to this conversation. With that said I will end my part of this discussion with this...

It was never my intention to single out a specific person, I was simply sharing my opinion on this matter. I have sent that GM a gift of 250k; hopefully they put it to use in a raffle or something that the members can participate in to help to steer this issue in the opposite direction, and to show my appreciation for the hard work they put into the guild. It's a small step, and probably pointless, but at least I can say that I was trying to be part of the solution and not the problem.

To those who feel that just because you have thousands of gold in sales a week that it is ok for guilds to increase dues for no apparent reason then you are part of the issue with the traders plaguing this game. I myself never said 15k/week dues was too much for me to afford. What I was trying to portray is that a 5k increase does nothing to help the situation; if anything it makes it worse. It makes the gap that much larger between big trader guilds and smaller trader guilds to compete for kiosk locations because now the larger guilds will have more funds; ultimately driving up trader bids and forcing smaller guilds completely out of any possible chance for a weekly trader. This is, and already has created "alliances" between these guilds; ultimately leaving the games economy in the hands of a few, rather than the many. In the real world this is called a monopoly.

Soon enough 15k/week dues will be the norm, then 20k, then 30k... when will it be acceptable by the community to raise concern about this? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer... sound familiar anyone? ZoS, please step in and rethink the trader kiosk system currently in place as it really needs an overhaul. The economy is controlled by a small number of the games population, and that is not healthy. In the end, this is just a game, and I for one am glad that I don't have to worry about the petty virtual politics behind the scenes.

I think you are missing that the overall amount of gold in circulation is and continues to increase. Therefore it makes perfect sense bids and income need to stay line with that increase.

geonsocal · July 2017

chess1ukb16_ESO wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

A specific GM seemed genuinely upset about certain posts so out of respect for them I have decided to edit my posts and remove what I have contributed to this conversation. With that said I will end my part of this discussion with this...

It was never my intention to single out a specific person, I was simply sharing my opinion on this matter. I have sent that GM a gift of 250k; hopefully they put it to use in a raffle or something that the members can participate in to help to steer this issue in the opposite direction, and to show my appreciation for the hard work they put into the guild. It's a small step, and probably pointless, but at least I can say that I was trying to be part of the solution and not the problem.

To those who feel that just because you have thousands of gold in sales a week that it is ok for guilds to increase dues for no apparent reason then you are part of the issue with the traders plaguing this game. I myself never said 15k/week dues was too much for me to afford. What I was trying to portray is that a 5k increase does nothing to help the situation; if anything it makes it worse. It makes the gap that much larger between big trader guilds and smaller trader guilds to compete for kiosk locations because now the larger guilds will have more funds; ultimately driving up trader bids and forcing smaller guilds completely out of any possible chance for a weekly trader. This is, and already has created "alliances" between these guilds; ultimately leaving the games economy in the hands of a few, rather than the many. In the real world this is called a monopoly.

Soon enough 15k/week dues will be the norm, then 20k, then 30k... when will it be acceptable by the community to raise concern about this? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer... sound familiar anyone? ZoS, please step in and rethink the trader kiosk system currently in place as it really needs an overhaul. The economy is controlled by a small number of the games population, and that is not healthy. In the end, this is just a game, and I for one am glad that I don't have to worry about the petty virtual politics behind the scenes.

I think you are missing that the overall amount of gold in circulation is and continues to increase. Therefore it makes perfect sense bids and income need to stay line with that increase.

oddly enough, economics was one of the few math clases i didn't excessively hate...

Ostaradoe · July 2017

Artis wrote: »

Ostaradoe wrote: »

This is why I have not joined a trade guild and think it is unfair that gamers like myself who are not interested in farming lose out. I would love to join a trade guild that is happy for players to post stuff for sale as and when they want to, and not have it become a commitment. Nothing in an MMO should be a commitment. But can I find one? Nope!

Stop crying and join a guild. There are tons of guilds with no requirements. Sounds like YOU have requirements for your guilds, though. Well, you probably won't join a top guild with your approach, but A guild? Easily.

I have absolutely no idea what your point is. Maybe I can't read the text properly through my tears.

If you are suggesting I take part in a system that I have no time for and disagree with (because as I said, nothing in an MMO should be a commitment) then jog on and take your sanctimonious BS with you. Unless you are going to explain your point with more reason and less pomp. Thank you

Cadbury · July 2017

Ostaradoe wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Ostaradoe wrote: »

This is why I have not joined a trade guild and think it is unfair that gamers like myself who are not interested in farming lose out. I would love to join a trade guild that is happy for players to post stuff for sale as and when they want to, and not have it become a commitment. Nothing in an MMO should be a commitment. But can I find one? Nope!

Stop crying and join a guild. There are tons of guilds with no requirements. Sounds like YOU have requirements for your guilds, though. Well, you probably won't join a top guild with your approach, but A guild? Easily.

I have absolutely no idea what your point is. Maybe I can't read the text properly through my tears.

If you are suggesting I take part in a system that I have no time for and disagree with (because as I said, nothing in an MMO should be a commitment) then jog on and take your sanctimonious BS with you. Unless you are going to explain your point with more reason and less pomp. Thank you

No. Join a guild. Conform.

One of us
One of us

SpiderKnight · July 2017

There was a guild I left a little while ago that lost an 8mil bid, blamed all their members because they weren't participating in a weekly raffle-that required you to donate mats to enter, not gold...then raised their fee to 25k/wk. This was a supposed "donation guild".

Ostaradoe · July 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

No. Join a guild. Conform.

One of us
One of us

Ok.