I think the simplicity of it is one of their strongpoints.

First of all. Wait till you're max level. A lvl 50 character feels and plays different to a lvl 30. Trust me on that.

Second. The system might be simple as it relies on buff, dot/hot, burst, finisher etc but each class does it differently. Adding more skill morphs would take a very very very long time to make sure the classes are balanced, and balancing classes is not as easy for the devs as you think. Not on a technical level, mind you. But once you change a skill of one class, everyone playing other classes causes an uproar. You can't please everyone.

Personally, I'd rather see classes receive an additional skill tree like Necromancy for sorcerer etc. But that is not going to happen. We have what we have in the game and there is a promise of yearly expansion of the content so I do see more classes coming in each year and the game staying alive and well. As much as the community can be a little toxic, for every one unhappy player there is 10 players that enjoy the game.

@red_emu I will definitely enter level 50 with an open mind. While I understand balance would be a struggle, balance is always a struggle in mmos as people find new ways to maximize efficiency. I agree it is impossible to keep everybody happy, and I may end up being one of those people that they couldn't keep happy. But I can also say with certainty that they have lost and will lose more player base in the future over what I've brought up right now. I don't see the community outraged over having more freedom with their characters. But yes I will definitely approach end game with an open mind.

@GeorgeBlack I agree, I feel like they tried to stay true to Skyrim more than the entire series when it comes to stam/mag for dps rather than attributes. I also feel that it makes you feel less like a class and more like a mag user or stam user. It feels oversimplified for something that should feel diverse. I also agree with more tooltip information or at least an option to activate more information on tooltips in regards to that.

Eremith wrote: »

Some additional morfs would be great. More flexible character creation in skill lines and trees is always fine and interesting.
Also they definitely must do something with current max-magika/stamina issue.
All games reaching that point where basic system should be revamped in the end. I really hope it'll be some kind of new morfs, sub-classes, new stat-building system. And I don't want them to simply add some new talents in CP.

Like I said I haven't made it to champion yet, but I've read about the cp points and while it sounds decent, some more morphs per skill to allow a more diverse skill bar set from one character to the next that implement various added effects or tradeoffs from the last morph would really breathe some life into the system. I don't think anyone will disagree when I say something about picking between more morphs sounds a lot more exciting than passive ability points.

When it comes to the Champion system... it's underwhelming. I mean, it's a nice system to have. It takes a lot of weight off that whole, "you must grind multiple characters to endgame," crap that plagues most MMOs. But, it doesn't really let you define your character. To be honest, I'd prefer if the entire system was overhauled from the ground up. Some of the concepts from the original iteration, like stars for different weapon types, were cool. I'd rather see a system where you spent points in blocks to obtain specific passive effects that were far more situational than the current ones are. Though some of that has to do with how break points function, and irritation over that.

That's because your skill progression (and morphing) is not your primary avenue of advancement. Once you're at 50 (well, really at 160), further advancement comes in the form of gear progression. Your skills allow you to define your build, but your gear allows you to improve it further.

There's competing philosophies on active abilities in MMOs. Some games focus on making those the primary grind for power, with individual abilities requiring extensive grinding and time commitment to access. Others, including ESO, focus on giving the player access to those abilities quickly, so they can actually select and use their build, rather than having to engage in behavior they don't enjoy in order to gain access to the behavior they do.

So, no, the point of skills in ESO is to give you combat options. They let you choose how you want to approach the game, and do offer some nice variety within your class. ...and, yes, some players will try to tell you there's only one right choice of skills to select from. Those players are idiots.

There's a legitimate issue of some classes having some abilities that just don't deliver the way they should. That's true, and unfortunate. But, you do have a lot of tools in-class to start defining your character before you go out-of-class to finish it up.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

My only gripes at this point regarding the morph system is how inflexible it is - I would love to adjust the system to allow you to pick a morph on the the fly as long as you have invested a skill point in the base skill and each morph you want to use, so three in total. Switching a morph can only be done out of combat.

Yeah, that would be cool. On both counts. Especially if some of those morphs allowed us to convert our stamina weapons into magicka tools.

Also I understand that your idea of what's perfect and mine is are probably quite different, I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong I am just stating my opinion and trying to promote discussion.

I'd rather they do another pass on seldom-used skills and morphs rather than re-do the system.

devinfexb16_ESO wrote: »

Hey people. I'm not going to pretend that I've spent a massive amount of time on this game. I've played on pc and more recently have been playing on console, and I've accumulated a couple 30s and a couple couple 20s. However I have countless hours/days/months of playtime in other mmos and arpgs in my lifetime.

My main concern is I feel that the skill and morph systems are very basic and and shells of what they potentially could be. The thing that gets me is with having so few classes in the game, having so few class unique skills feels very lacking. To me, Elder Scrolls is about playing your way, and I feel like the lack of depth in the skill systems does the opposite and pigeonholes you.

I am trying to start a discussion. Do you, the paying customers, want to see a revamp? Do you think it is fine the way it is? Do you have suggestions?
As for any devs lurking, what are your thoughts? Do you feel it should stay the way it is? Do you feel satisfied and proud about what you have given us?

Personally I feel that this could apply to the weapon skills as well, but honestly I feel the class skills are what need this depth the most. Putting aside the excuse of balance because let's face it, balance is an issue every day and is never really fixed, what would you like to see?

In my opinion I feel like class skills really need morph trees for every skill. To me, and I'm sure many others, having skill morph into 1 of 2 morphs for a characters entire lifetime feels extremely linear and monotonous. Why not have a tree that expands? Start with 2 morph options. Then those options get 2 options. Then those 4 options get 2 options each, and maybe those 8 get 2 more, so by end game each skill has 8 or 16 end morphs that you can choose one of that can cater to how you like to play the game and what your end goals are and most importantly makes your character feel like your own and not somebody else's.

I think your right on. I've been playing this game for 3+ years and I've always felt this way. For an elder scrolls game I feel so pigeonholed into just about everything. The lack of morphs and skill lines has always bothered me. I've resepcced my diffferent characters a 1000 times just trying to find something "new" and in the end I'm back to square one. I mean once you pick stamina or magica, half or more of your morphing options are off the table.Not only do they need to expand the number of morphs they need to expand the available skill lines (add spears, crossbows, 1 hand and rune, etc). For the people saying get to 50, it's so much different. No it's not. Other than you've unlocked all of your skill lines for morphing and you get some cp points, it's all the same. Take stamina for instance. Once you get caltrops, endless hail, poison arrow, and possible trap, you then decide if your pvp or pve. If your not tanking choose DW for pve or 2 hander for pvp (generally), choose your avaialble crit and major brutality buff of choice and finally sprinkle in a few class abilities (spammable, heal, shield) and that's about it. The morphs you choose are already chosen for you! You can't hybrid anymore so creativity is out the window unless you run alone. You'll run this build ad nausem until you're eyes bleed. You can role another class but if it's the same stamina style you can repeat everything I just typed and then sprinkle in new classes skills. Mags the same way. The game is that easy and basic unless your wanting to maximize you're DPS and then you'll come up with this robotic rotation that eeks out those last few points casuals aren't getting. I digress...YES we need way more options for the longevity of the game. People will say "but it will need balancing and issues will arise". Well guess what in MMOs there is always, always, always balancing and they are never fully balanced. I've played MMOS since day 2 of Ultima Online in 1997. Guess what..UOs still balancing...

I really enjoy ESO, the world is great, the music, the delves and dungeons, but from a character creation ( skills, classes and weapons lines) and advancement aspect, I've felt since open beta on PC that this game is leaving out a whole lot. The 4 classes I had the option of in the beginning almost had me refusing to play this game. If it wasn't for my friends and the lack of any decent MMO left I probably wouldn't have even played ESO because of it's lack of options. To this day I'm still playing for those same reasons and besides the warden, I'm still looking at the same options (we did get a few stamina morphs added but meh). It's not too late though ZOS..

@devinfexb16_ESO I agree with you 100%.

devinfexb16_ESO wrote: »

@SilverWF Not my problem, that's why they get the big bucks because that sort of thing is their job. And honestly, being moderate mechanics changes shouldn't really be all that hard to balance. Also like I said before balance is a weak excuse. That didn't stop them from giving players 1,000,000 CP. Balance is a constant struggle in mmos anyways.

Not sir, this is YOUR problem - because you are suggesting that.

Also, you didn't care that 90% of that morphs would be copypaste from each other? really?

@SilverWF Look man, you asked me how I think THEY would be able to balance it. So hypothetically, not my problem. These are developers. They make their livings making games. I'm sure they could figure it out, it definitely wouldn't be the first time a game got an overhaul. And how do you feel the term mechanical changes equates to copy paste? If you're happy with the state of the game, I'm happy for you, you're entitled you that opinion, but a quick forum search turns up endless threads asking for new skill lines and morphs.

@Zardayne Very understandable fears, but anything can be mostly balanced if it is well thought out.

There's been a few threads on this topic. A couple really big ones you could search on. I've been a supporter of adjusting the morph system for the purposes of allowing stamina and magicka versions of a class more opportunity to be class unique. I think stamina versions of a class are more defined by their weapon skills and fighter's guild skills than their specific class skills. That's evidenced by how many more magicka morphs there are than stamina.

I've suggested when you get to the point where you can morph a skill you would choose stamina or magicka for it and then you'd get to choose between 2 stamina or 2 magicka. An example would be the Sorcerer's Storm Atronach morphs would stay the same except if you chose the stamina path you would get a Flesh Atronach instead that either did an AOE ground pound for physical damage or a poison spray directed at the closest enemy.

The problem that arises usually is people say "Well then there needs to be more magicka based weapon skill lines" and "Zos can't balance the current game how would they ever balance adding more to it?"