I take issue with the Agressive aspect of 1H/S

LegacyDM · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Raeph wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Tremorscale? Why does a sword and board get crazy burst in pvp using tremor scale? Invasion--->bash---->ransack--->tremor--->bash--->reverberating bash = gg. OP has a point. Sword and board tanks in pvp should not be capable of this kind of burst for an instant I win combo. Now add DK, templar, or even sorc skills on top of that with their damage output and you have a crazy dps tank.

@LegacyDM
Bolded all those words for you to reread what you wrote.
Those bolded words define a completely different problem to your case. Proc damage sets are 'overperforming', not SnB skill line. We both know Tremorscale provides too much damage and CC. Take out Tremorscale from the mentioned rotation and you basically have a weak damage-dealing 'Tank'.

Exactly.

O I agree with you but it doesn't change the fact that it's causing sword and board to overperform and people are taking advantage of this like crazy. So until zos nerfs tremor, s&b burst will continue to over perform.

If tremorscale is the problem why is s&b overperforming?

Isn't tremor overperforming?

Cause and effect. zos has two options. Either nerf sword and board to compliment the power of tremorscale or nerf tremorscale. Pick one or the other.

My comment in the op was to highlight this issue rather than start a new post. s&b should not have this burst potential. Regardless, until one gets nerfed s&b combo is over performing.

max_only · July 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Raeph wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Tremorscale? Why does a sword and board get crazy burst in pvp using tremor scale? Invasion--->bash---->ransack--->tremor--->bash--->reverberating bash = gg. OP has a point. Sword and board tanks in pvp should not be capable of this kind of burst for an instant I win combo. Now add DK, templar, or even sorc skills on top of that with their damage output and you have a crazy dps tank.

@LegacyDM
Bolded all those words for you to reread what you wrote.
Those bolded words define a completely different problem to your case. Proc damage sets are 'overperforming', not SnB skill line. We both know Tremorscale provides too much damage and CC. Take out Tremorscale from the mentioned rotation and you basically have a weak damage-dealing 'Tank'.

Exactly.

O I agree with you but it doesn't change the fact that it's causing sword and board to overperform and people are taking advantage of this like crazy. So until zos nerfs tremor, s&b burst will continue to over perform.

If tremorscale is the problem why is s&b overperforming?

Isn't tremor overperforming?

Cause and effect. zos has two options. Either nerf sword and board to compliment the power of tremorscale or nerf tremorscale. Pick one or the other.

My comment in the op was to highlight this issue rather than start a new post. s&b should not have this burst potential. Regardless, until one gets nerfed s&b combo is over performing.

You don't need s&B to proc tremorscale. So there really isn't a choice for Zos between the two. If you want Tremorscale to be nerfed just say that. Asking for a nerf to an entire skill line that has been a classic staple of tanks in every holy trinity rpg is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

ewhite106b16_ESO · July 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

Cause and effect. zos has two options. Either nerf sword and board to compliment the power of tremorscale or nerf tremorscale. Pick one or the other.

My comment in the op was to highlight this issue rather than start a new post. s&b should not have this burst potential. Regardless, until one gets nerfed s&b combo is over performing.

There's a reason tremorscale isn't on the nerf list....it got nerfed incredibly hard before the other proc sets. Even when the next patch goes out the so called "burst" potential of s/b+tremorscale doesn't come near the burst of Selene, Veledrith and other proc sets that have never had a damage nerf. S&B + tremorscale isn't overpowered, and I don't see why sword/shield should be nerfed to the point where it's only useful for PVE tanks. Incidentally, the base weapon power is way higher for dual wield then S&B....and that's before talking about dual wield passives that increase damage on stunned targets, and other passives that give bonuses based on the specific weapon used.

Removing the gap closer from sword/shield doesn't serve any logical purpose, all this does is push players even more towards magicka builds for class gap closers....which they use to rush with sword/shield anyways.

Zvorgin · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Raeph wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Tremorscale? Why does a sword and board get crazy burst in pvp using tremor scale? Invasion--->bash---->ransack--->tremor--->bash--->reverberating bash = gg. OP has a point. Sword and board tanks in pvp should not be capable of this kind of burst for an instant I win combo. Now add DK, templar, or even sorc skills on top of that with their damage output and you have a crazy dps tank.

@LegacyDM
Bolded all those words for you to reread what you wrote.
Those bolded words define a completely different problem to your case. Proc damage sets are 'overperforming', not SnB skill line. We both know Tremorscale provides too much damage and CC. Take out Tremorscale from the mentioned rotation and you basically have a weak damage-dealing 'Tank'.

Exactly.

O I agree with you but it doesn't change the fact that it's causing sword and board to overperform and people are taking advantage of this like crazy. So until zos nerfs tremor, s&b burst will continue to over perform.

If tremorscale is the problem why is s&b overperforming?

Isn't tremor overperforming?

Don't have to use S&B to proc tremorscale

So again why is s&b Op?

I'm agreeing with you. The call to nerf S&B because of tremorscale is equivalent to calling for a nerf to resto staff because of troll king, it doesn't make any sense.

Rahotu · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

gpreid81 · July 2017

So a tank can't jump then as his armour would be to heavy lol

hmsdragonfly · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

First off, comparing this game to other MMORPG whatever that is, will get you nowhere.

i don't get it. And no one brings up 300? Your mad because it kind of works or could use a buff. Not sure. Try S/B with class abilities like biting jabs, surprise attack, venom claw. All those classes actually already have a gap closer built in.

I have tried DPS with S/B. It's not terrible, but not great either. Survivability on squishy nightblade was monster though. Check out some Duel builds. Many rock S/B and are very successful.

I would only suggest you try it. There's stamina toons tearing it up in battlegrounds rocking DW/Resto. Though I haven't had much success with a hybrid toon, it may be ok for someone else or certain situations.

Some food For your next topic, why Named pieces that don't match sets. I.e. Scathing mage with maces and 2H maul for a magic Crit set. S/B named pieces for Worm, another magic set. Named resto staff for the Burning Spellweave a fire magic set. Rattle cage...a complete heavy armor magic set

Meta builds are definitely optimal and can lead to success, but many less optimized build/sets may suit your play style better or offer different utility. The dragonstar arena highest score team ever had a tank rocking SPC/BlackRose or something to that effect. A light armor set and a PvP set tank rocking some of the toughest PvE content in game.

Personally I would like to see the damage tooltip of S&B skills lowered and the gap closer removed.
I believe that the skill line performs more that it should.

Top kek.

S&B's tooltip is already low.

Your belief is wrong.

You know nothing.

Zvorgin · July 2017

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

Zvorgin · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

So S&B should lose it's gap closer because DK's have group utility through CC abilities? DK's would still just use empowering chains so your fix does nothing.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

Chains in my experience is quite unreliable in PVP. A pebble on the ground prevents the ability from working.

Are you also going to get rid of the 2H gap closer as well?

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

So S&B should lose it's gap closer because DK's have group utility through CC abilities? DK's would still just use empowering chains so your fix does nothing.

SnB should lose the gap closer because it is an over performing weapon skill line in pv, which can deal good damage, constant pressure, while not having to worry about defence problems because: shield
I didn't brought the argument that tanks will lose gap closers. I want to nerf the weapon, not the tanks.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

Chains in my experience is quite unreliable in PVP. A pebble on the ground prevents the ability from working.

Are you also going to get rid of the 2H gap closer as well?

Did I make a post about 2h? Did I ask for 2h to have "two slot bonuses" ?

Obviously you just don't get that if a weapon:
Can put pressure on the enemy with it's high enough tool tip dmg
Gapclose/stun the enemy, with a single skill that can fill in two purposes
Debuff the enemy
Protect you from the enemy

it is over performing in PvP.

idk · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

I'd suggest it's not worth the time. As long as George ignores that player can equip S&B and gear for damage or gear for survival he will have difficulty with discussions like this. It's s part of the reason his argument against S&B having a gap closer doesn't lacks any logic.

josiahva · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

Get over yourself and your idea of what a role or class or race "should" be. S&B does poor damage compared to ANY other weapon line except maybe resto staff. If people are able to get decent damage out of it...good for them....but its a defensive line and as such there are many compromises that say DW or 2HD just dont have...both those do far more damage.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

josiahva wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

Get over yourself and your idea of what a role or class or race "should" be. S&B does poor damage compared to ANY other weapon line except maybe resto staff. If people are able to get decent damage out of it...good for them....but its a defensive line and as such there are many compromises that say DW or 2HD just dont have...both those do far more damage.

Take a stam char with DW in their setup and they will lose against a stam char with SnB. Front weapon, back weapon it doesn't matter.

SnB in the mix makes the winner every time, over DW.

DW is supposed to be a more agro Weapon that a tanks SnB.
How come it doesn't have a gap closer of FLEEING ENEMIES?

FrancisCrawford · July 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Tank should ABSOULTELY be mobile. Rest of your post is equally uniformed.

The real-world military usage of the word "tank" is on your side there.

(Let's conveniently ignore than real-world tanks can also be strong ranged attackers ...)

invo261 · July 2017

So basically you want all tanks to be a rock? Stand in one place just taking damage and not being able to do anything else ? In PvE I could see that working but in PvP that's just impossible. Your complaint makes no sense lol.

Zvorgin · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

So S&B should lose it's gap closer because DK's have group utility through CC abilities? DK's would still just use empowering chains so your fix does nothing.

SnB should lose the gap closer because it is an over performing weapon skill line in pv, which can deal good damage, constant pressure, while not having to worry about defence problems because: shield
I didn't brought the argument that tanks will lose gap closers. I want to nerf the weapon, not the tanks.

The weapon line already does subpar damage. What are you comparing it to in order to say it does good damage?

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

invo261 wrote: »

So basically you want all tanks to be a rock? Stand in one place just taking damage and not being able to do anything else ? In PvE I could see that working but in PvP that's just impossible. Your complaint makes no sense lol.

Once again I want the gap closer from SnB removed.
tanks will still have gap closers. How many more such replies will I get?

Zvorgin · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

Get over yourself and your idea of what a role or class or race "should" be. S&B does poor damage compared to ANY other weapon line except maybe resto staff. If people are able to get decent damage out of it...good for them....but its a defensive line and as such there are many compromises that say DW or 2HD just dont have...both those do far more damage.

Take a stam char with DW in their setup and they will lose against a stam char with SnB. Front weapon, back weapon it doesn't matter.

SnB in the mix makes the winner every time, over DW.

DW is supposed to be a more agro Weapon that a tanks SnB.
How come it doesn't have a gap closer of FLEEING ENEMIES?

Are you crazy? You think running DW makes you subpar in melee and an automatic loss?

Zvorgin · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

invo261 wrote: »

So basically you want all tanks to be a rock? Stand in one place just taking damage and not being able to do anything else ? In PvE I could see that working but in PvP that's just impossible. Your complaint makes no sense lol.

Once again I want the gap closer from SnB removed.
tanks will still have gap closers. How many more such replies will I get?

You keep saying the same thing over and over based on some very outside the box logic people are trying to understand...

Tan9oSuccka · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

Chains in my experience is quite unreliable in PVP. A pebble on the ground prevents the ability from working.

Are you also going to get rid of the 2H gap closer as well?

Did I make a post about 2h? Did I ask for 2h to have "two slot bonuses" ?

Obviously you just don't get that if a weapon:
Can put pressure on the enemy with it's high enough tool tip dmg
Gapclose/stun the enemy, with a single skill that can fill in two purposes
Debuff the enemy
Protect you from the enemy

it is over performing in PvP.

I don't see the problem here. The invasion gap closer doesn't debuff.

A second skill, reverberating bash does.

Sounds like you tried to streak away from a HA Stam user that kept the blade to your throat with invasion and smacked you with bash so you couldn't heal effectively.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

So S&B should lose it's gap closer because DK's have group utility through CC abilities? DK's would still just use empowering chains so your fix does nothing.

SnB should lose the gap closer because it is an over performing weapon skill line in pv, which can deal good damage, constant pressure, while not having to worry about defence problems because: shield
I didn't brought the argument that tanks will lose gap closers. I want to nerf the weapon, not the tanks.

The weapon line already does subpar damage. What are you comparing it to in order to say it does good damage?

subpar dmg?
Is that the point? That you can bring out less dps with SnB that other stamina weapons?

My point with this topic is that SnB can pressure an enemy in PvP with GOOD damage while at the same time the SnB user doesn't have to worry so much about having problems in defence.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

invo261 wrote: »

So basically you want all tanks to be a rock? Stand in one place just taking damage and not being able to do anything else ? In PvE I could see that working but in PvP that's just impossible. Your complaint makes no sense lol.

Once again I want the gap closer from SnB removed.
tanks will still have gap closers. How many more such replies will I get?

You keep saying the same thing over and over based on some very outside the box logic people are trying to understand...

Why are we then discussing tanks and their gap closers when the topic is about SnB?

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

Chains in my experience is quite unreliable in PVP. A pebble on the ground prevents the ability from working.

Are you also going to get rid of the 2H gap closer as well?

Did I make a post about 2h? Did I ask for 2h to have "two slot bonuses" ?

Obviously you just don't get that if a weapon:
Can put pressure on the enemy with it's high enough tool tip dmg
Gapclose/stun the enemy, with a single skill that can fill in two purposes
Debuff the enemy
Protect you from the enemy

it is over performing in PvP.

I don't see the problem here. The invasion gap closer doesn't debuff.

A second skill, reverberating bash does.

Sounds like you tried to streak away from a HA Stam user that kept the blade to your throat with invasion and smacked you with bash so you couldn't heal effectively.

"Sounds like..." again

Why would I have a problem only with a HA stam user if the same scenario of me being rekt can apply to ANY GAP CLOSER?

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

double post

idk · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

Get over yourself and your idea of what a role or class or race "should" be. S&B does poor damage compared to ANY other weapon line except maybe resto staff. If people are able to get decent damage out of it...good for them....but its a defensive line and as such there are many compromises that say DW or 2HD just dont have...both those do far more damage.

Take a stam char with DW in their setup and they will lose against a stam char with SnB. Front weapon, back weapon it doesn't matter.

SnB in the mix makes the winner every time, over DW.

DW is supposed to be a more agro Weapon that a tanks SnB.
How come it doesn't have a gap closer of FLEEING ENEMIES?

It's highly irrelevant to discuss DW not having a gap closer.

Further, it's really incorrect to suggest the S&B would be the winner over DW every time. It's not that simple. Skill of the players trumps all and I think oppinions to this are being formed via limited experience.

Zvorgin · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:

1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?

In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.

easy fix George,take away the need for a tank to have a gap closer by making all dps/heals range 5m

Apparently "tanks" should just sit back and be damage sponges according to George. If that's the case, they should be unkillable damage sponges since they can never get close to anyone.

Tanks can access their Class gap closers. I want the gap closer from SnB removed. How do you still ignore some1 that gap closes on you then?
DK tanks, even though they don't have a gap closer, if ignored they will mess you up with: chain, fossilize, talons, (obsidian shard). Leap.

So S&B should lose it's gap closer because DK's have group utility through CC abilities? DK's would still just use empowering chains so your fix does nothing.

SnB should lose the gap closer because it is an over performing weapon skill line in pv, which can deal good damage, constant pressure, while not having to worry about defence problems because: shield
I didn't brought the argument that tanks will lose gap closers. I want to nerf the weapon, not the tanks.

The weapon line already does subpar damage. What are you comparing it to in order to say it does good damage?

subpar dmg?
Is that the point? That you can bring out less dps with SnB that other stamina weapons?

My point with this topic is that SnB can pressure an enemy in PvP with GOOD damage while at the same time the SnB user doesn't have to worry so much about having problems in defence.

They get defense from giving up damage, just light high damage builds get damage by giving up defense. Sounds like you want S&B to be low damage and low defense because you don't like the skill line.

Zer0_CooL · July 2017

Can't say much to the dmg part thoug i can't imagine its as strong as dw or 2h. But i used to play tank -not for hm vet trials but all vet dungeons- and i can really tell u that movability is absolutely necessary for a tank.