I take issue with the Agressive aspect of 1H/S
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OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This dude straight up opened a thread about everything in the game that he's died to within a two week time-frame.
The Age of Wrobel.9 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This dude straight up opened a thread about everything in the game that he's died to within a two week time-frame.
Yep.
He's not happy with 99% of the game apparently.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Are you the new noob troll of the forum or what?
What happened to the 3 polls a day guy?
I think he may have met his forum star goal. Now we're stuck with non-issues are issues guy.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA4 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sounds like someone kept the pressure on a fleeing Mag Sorc with Invasion. (LOL).
I love Mag Sorc tears.2 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hoho hoo hooo
The bad boys of the internet forums.
How refreshing. Ye forums ain't toxic. Look at how you behave. Somebody says something with which you completely disagree, yet even after 2 pages of talking crap you all gotta take a shot. LameEdited by GeorgeBlack on July 11, 2017 3:02PM3 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Hoho hoo hooo
The bad boys of the internet forums.
How refreshing. Ye forums ain't toxic.
To be fair, most people here enjoy this game to some extent. Some of your suggestions are good, but they are almost always phrased in a way that comes across as knowing what the game should be rather than enjoying what it is--and often your suggestions go against stated design goals and the fast flow of combat that this game was marketed with.Edited by DeadlyRecluse on July 11, 2017 3:01PMThrice Empress, Forever Scrub5 -
Hippie4927✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Hoho hoo hooo
The bad boys of the internet forums.
How refreshing. Ye forums ain't toxic. Look at how you behave. Somebody says something with which you completely disagree, yet even after 2 pages of talking crap you all gotta take a shot. Lame
You have no room to talk! When someone completely disagrees with you, you threaten to 'flag' them. Lame!PC/NA/EP ✌️6 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This dude straight up opened a thread about everything in the game that he's died to within a two week time-frame.
He gets destroyed every day by something new and respawns directly on the forums with a new nerf thread xD.
At some point, people like that really need to ask themselves if everything in the game is broken and unbalanced, or if they just personally have a lot of learning left to do.7 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Hoho hoo hooo
The bad boys of the internet forums.
How refreshing. Ye forums ain't toxic. Look at how you behave. Somebody says something with which you completely disagree, yet even after 2 pages of talking crap you all gotta take a shot. Lame
Ok.. so.. gonna give the entitled troll a chance, even tho this comment implies you are pretty much a close minded moron.GeorgeBlack wrote: »It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:
1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
YES, because, in this game, DPS controls aggro. Thats why there are only two taunt skills in the game. And, yes, in AVA, players cant be taunted like mobs in PVE, but, guess what? That makes those two skills useless. So, you get back to damage and survival for tanks.GeorgeBlack wrote: »2)All of the animations are short casting
Yes, Because AvA does not have different skills than PVE, short cast skills are needed for tanking while preventing death by blocking. Come to think of it.. exactly HOW MANY long animation skills do you have on any class? Temp has a couple channeled, sorc has just a few? Weapon skills, on the same level as 1H/Sh? Err.. what is long cast there?GeorgeBlack wrote: »3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
Yes, because, once again, a PVE tank has to control aggro with DPS. So, yes, bash does damage as well as interrupts.GeorgeBlack wrote: »4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
Err.. you must be just pulling our leg here, right? That statement about 1HS being more dps than DW and 2H is just.. wrong.GeorgeBlack wrote: »5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
Yes, again, gets back to 1HS needed to tank in PVE. Tanking involved damaging the mob, which includes weakening it so other can damage it too..GeorgeBlack wrote: »6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
EVERY MMO I have ever played, tanks have gap closers, so they can get to the mobs before anyone else damages them. EVERY MMO I have ever played, tanks have gap closers to get to mobs when they loose aggro and need to quickly get it back.GeorgeBlack wrote: »7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?
AGAIN, tanks control aggro in this game by DOING DAMAGE. So, yes, more damage = more mob aggro.GeorgeBlack wrote: »In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.
You must have limited MMO experience then. ALL tanks do in most MMORPGs is crowd control and aggro control. No where but in this game, out of 20 mainstream MMOs I have played in 17 years, do tanks have to use damage for aggro control.
Oh, and thread bumping will get you a forum ban.Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.7 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭First off, comparing this game to other MMORPG whatever that is, will get you nowhere.
i don't get it. And no one brings up 300? Your mad because it kind of works or could use a buff. Not sure. Try S/B with class abilities like biting jabs, surprise attack, venom claw. All those classes actually already have a gap closer built in.
I have tried DPS with S/B. It's not terrible, but not great either. Survivability on squishy nightblade was monster though. Check out some Duel builds. Many rock S/B and are very successful.
I would only suggest you try it. There's stamina toons tearing it up in battlegrounds rocking DW/Resto. Though I haven't had much success with a hybrid toon, it may be ok for someone else or certain situations.
Some food For your next topic, why Named pieces that don't match sets. I.e. Scathing mage with maces and 2H maul for a magic Crit set. S/B named pieces for Worm, another magic set. Named resto staff for the Burning Spellweave a fire magic set. Rattle cage...a complete heavy armor magic set
Meta builds are definitely optimal and can lead to success, but many less optimized build/sets may suit your play style better or offer different utility. The dragonstar arena highest score team ever had a tank rocking SPC/BlackRose or something to that effect. A light armor set and a PvP set tank rocking some of the toughest PvE content in game.
1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »First off, comparing this game to other MMORPG whatever that is, will get you nowhere.
i don't get it. And no one brings up 300? Your mad because it kind of works or could use a buff. Not sure. Try S/B with class abilities like biting jabs, surprise attack, venom claw. All those classes actually already have a gap closer built in.
I have tried DPS with S/B. It's not terrible, but not great either. Survivability on squishy nightblade was monster though. Check out some Duel builds. Many rock S/B and are very successful.
I would only suggest you try it. There's stamina toons tearing it up in battlegrounds rocking DW/Resto. Though I haven't had much success with a hybrid toon, it may be ok for someone else or certain situations.
Some food For your next topic, why Named pieces that don't match sets. I.e. Scathing mage with maces and 2H maul for a magic Crit set. S/B named pieces for Worm, another magic set. Named resto staff for the Burning Spellweave a fire magic set. Rattle cage...a complete heavy armor magic set
Meta builds are definitely optimal and can lead to success, but many less optimized build/sets may suit your play style better or offer different utility. The dragonstar arena highest score team ever had a tank rocking SPC/BlackRose or something to that effect. A light armor set and a PvP set tank rocking some of the toughest PvE content in game.
Personally I would like to see the damage tooltip of S&B skills lowered and the gap closer removed.
I believe that the skill line performs more that it should.
0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »And I am saying that as a heavy armored warrior with a shield you shouldn't be able to rush.
Look, PvE is ez in eso. Tera Online and FFXIV have more challenging dungeon mechanics. People can survive PvE without proc sets, destroy ulties, and tank charges. PvE is so ez, don't bring it up as an argument.
In Cyrodiil when I see a tank charging endlessly behind a fleeing enemy with with the 1h/s gap closer I just gring. You wear heavy armor, you are not supposed to be mobile.
The charge is in the 1/shield skill line not the heavy armor skill line soooooo.... you just want to mess things up because reality?
I hate to break it to you but we are playing a game. In a world where people can fling fire and lightning at each other. There are intelligent(debatable) humanoid creatures with tails, fur and scales. We can travel instantly around the continent and even to another plane of existence via gazebos.
And you're worrying about someone in armor being able to sprint 20 meters.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]11 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »It should be the weapon of choice for tanks, not damage dealers
However I find that 1h/s:
1)Has tooltip dmg on par with DW (and I don't even have 1H/S levelled up).
2)All of the animations are short casting
3)Bonus dmg for bashing (ok, but..)
4) If we take animation cancelling in the mix 2) and 3) are greatly amplified and gain advantage over DW and 2H, whilst at the same time being the all best damage mitigation weapon.
5)80% of the active 1h/s skills offer a debuff while doing good dmg
6)Tank should not be very mobile. Why do they have a gap closer?!?
7)Passive gives 3% WD. Why?
In every mmorpg I like when it I see tanks being true fighters instead of just CC and agro units.
But I think that the dps aspect of 1h/s should be looked into, and maybe some changes can follow.
Ima bump this topic again at peak hour.
With regards PvP I can agree that S&B is overperforming, but some of the arguments you mentioned are not the reasons why. A tank would be ever so pointless in PvP without a gap closer, de-buffs, and the ability to pressure.
Let's start again maybe.
Currently a lot of builds, magplar, magDK, Stam Sorc, Stam DK, And pretty much every back bar that isn't a resto staff uses S&B as far as I can tell. But I don't really take issue with it being back bar, back bar is usually for buffs, and turtling up and so it makes sense to have as much mitigation there as possible.
But when it's the preferred choice for damage dealing over other choices on top of mitigation, more damage in the form of 1000 more max stats, a second 5 piece or complete monster set, whilst still having access to all those de-buffs.... this is when the balance issue comes into play imo. And what is the trade off, about 2500 penetration, soon to be only 1200 if running sharpened. That is literally it. Unless your build relies on damage abilities from dual weild or two-hand I can't see in the current meta why S&B shouldn't be the main choice for most AvA builds.
Two-hand is more of a buff bar now than S&B even. With S&B as front. Does this make sense to people?!
Granted it's also due to being able to deal damage in the form of proc's that make it even stronger, with the ability to equip an extra proc on top. And I don't see this changing with update 15 either. I feel making two-handers finally count as two of a set would help shift this. Two-hand and rune perhaps!!?PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭If tanks didn't have a gap closer in PvP, no one would engage with tanks at all.
Carrying a shield would just be a big, "I'm too much effort to bother with." sign and people would just avoid them."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Hoho hoo hooo
The bad boys of the internet forums.
How refreshing. Ye forums ain't toxic. Look at how you behave. Somebody says something with which you completely disagree, yet even after 2 pages of talking crap you all gotta take a shot. Lame
@GeorgeBlack Multiple people disagreeing with someone is not toxic. Anyone who has actively used a social website for a couple of days is capable of realizing that there are lots of people on the internet, and they can all chime in on a topic if they so well please. It's not harassment, it's not abuse, it's not toxic.
Please stop misusing negative words to complain about the actions of people which get at you. This is how youtube comments devolve to "lele ur like [insert horrific historical figure]".If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].7 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »If tanks didn't have a gap closer in PvP, no one would engage with tanks at all.
Carrying a shield would just be a big, "I'm too much effort to bother with." sign and people would just avoid them.
Tanks do have class gap closers. DKs cannot be avoided.
S&B is overperforming as a skill line.
Edited by GeorgeBlack on July 11, 2017 5:42PM0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »If tanks didn't have a gap closer in PvP, no one would engage with tanks at all.
Carrying a shield would just be a big, "I'm too much effort to bother with." sign and people would just avoid them.
Tanks do have class gap closers. DKs cannot be avoided.
S&B is overperforming as a skill line.
This is a joke, right?
Wait....you're serious.1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »If tanks didn't have a gap closer in PvP, no one would engage with tanks at all.
Carrying a shield would just be a big, "I'm too much effort to bother with." sign and people would just avoid them.
Tanks do have class gap closers. DKs cannot be avoided.
S&B is overperforming as a skill line.
This is a joke, right?
Wait....you're serious.
Where is the joke in saying that tanks have access to Gap Closers and that S&B is over performing?
0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »If tanks didn't have a gap closer in PvP, no one would engage with tanks at all.
Carrying a shield would just be a big, "I'm too much effort to bother with." sign and people would just avoid them.
Tanks do have class gap closers. DKs cannot be avoided.
S&B is overperforming as a skill line.
This is a joke, right?
Wait....you're serious.
Where is the joke in saying that tanks have access to Gap Closers and that S&B is over performing?
This is in regard to 1h/shield. Overperforming, really?1 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tremorscale? Why does a sword and board get crazy burst in pvp using tremor scale? Invasion--->bash---->ransack--->tremor--->bash--->reverberating bash = gg. OP has a point. Sword and board tanks in pvp should not be capable of this kind of burst for an instant I win combo. Now add DK, templar, or even sorc skills on top of that with their damage output and you have a crazy dps tank.Legacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »If tanks didn't have a gap closer in PvP, no one would engage with tanks at all.
Carrying a shield would just be a big, "I'm too much effort to bother with." sign and people would just avoid them.
Tanks do have class gap closers. DKs cannot be avoided.
S&B is overperforming as a skill line.
This is a joke, right?
Wait....you're serious.
Where is the joke in saying that tanks have access to Gap Closers and that S&B is over performing?
This is in regard to 1h/shield. Overperforming, really?
S&B has a fairly high damage tool tip and quick direct hits + a stunning gap Closer.
Flurry takes a bit and is easily avoidable before the last big hit.
The rest of the DW abilities don't have a much higher damage tooltip than S&B (only mentioning initial dmg tooltip)
Jabs. Channeling again.
Wrecking/diz blow. High dmg but avoidable.
S&B can easily replace those in PvP.
S&B cannot be easily replaced though.
Edited by GeorgeBlack on July 11, 2017 6:11PM0 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tremorscale? Why does a sword and board get crazy burst in pvp using tremor scale? Invasion--->bash---->ransack--->tremor--->bash--->reverberating bash = gg. OP has a point. Sword and board tanks in pvp should not be capable of this kind of burst for an instant I win combo. Now add DK, templar, or even sorc skills on top of that with their damage output and you have a crazy dps tank.
If it is "instant I win combo", then why aren't you running it?
I have a magicka and stamina version of every class, and have multiple tanks, healers and DPS. I have yet to find the "instant I win combo" that works in every situation."Get off my lawn!"4 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »Tremorscale? Why does a sword and board get crazy burst in pvp using tremor scale? Invasion--->bash---->ransack--->tremor--->bash--->reverberating bash = gg. OP has a point. Sword and board tanks in pvp should not be capable of this kind of burst for an instant I win combo. Now add DK, templar, or even sorc skills on top of that with their damage output and you have a crazy dps tank.
If it is "instant I win combo", then why aren't you running it?
I have a magicka and stamina version of every class, and have multiple tanks, healers and DPS. I have yet to find the "instant I win combo" that works in every situation.
Yep. I've yet to run into an Offensive S/B user in Cyrodiil. Not one time.0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭S&B users can put A LOT of pressure
Clipp normal atk
Clipp skill atk
Bash (throw some blocking AC in there)
without having to worry about lacking in defence. Also with a single skill they can gap close and/or stun.
S&B is too aggro. It needs to deal less damage if it is to maintain its purpose of a defensive weapon.
It can easily replace 2h and DW and still provide people with a safer more sturdy fighter that can still hit hard. Gona continue this discoussion another time.Edited by GeorgeBlack on July 11, 2017 6:09PM0 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭Oh and about Tera: Lancers Tanks use Onslaught and Shield Barrage which is basically the same gap closing attack. I used to love that animation when I played that game. Choo choo mfer lol
Also the same skill existed in Wow but it's been a decade since I played that.
I bet if I cared enough I could find this same skill in DnD ferchristsakes.
Guardian fighters in Neverwinter have an AOE gap closer and they are the main tanks. Thats DnD based.The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS41 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Basically realism is all fine and dandy, but the game has to be fun as well. I highly doubt that people made backflips and elaborate jumps through the battlefield no matter if they had leather, cloth or heavy armour on. Unless you were in asia, we know for certain that every sword master in the east is able to fly and levitate.
For the most part one hit kinda ends the fight as well. Ok, not necessarily, it could only be a flesh wound.
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett1 -
Raeph✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »If you have to ask why a tank needs a gap closer.... maybe we need to have The Talk.
See when a two support classes (healer and tank) love each other very much, they do a special hug with the boss of a dungeon. Tanks hold the boss's attention, weaken it with debuffs and if it jumps around, rush to it and bash its brains out to interrupt it to prevent premature... *cough* "wipes". Healers buff the tanks (and those filthy voyeuristic dps) heal injuries, help with mechanics, dps and set the pace of the sweet sweet war-making (can't go shooting off on your own without a healer!)
And the gap closer? (adult video pun not intended)
"rush to it and bash its brains out"
No.
I base my topics on fairness and concept.
The responses I get are "because it's practical"
If you are a tank, a heavy armored warrior carrying a shield you should not be able to rush.
Based on what? You're acting like it's some unwritten MMO law, which it definitely isnt.5
I don't get it.