Anddddd viper is dead now

SnubbS · July 2017

The war on damage continues. This update doesn't seem that bad, there's a lot of stuff I liked. I don't agree with the nerf to proc sets like Viper/Selene/RedMountain as they provide the needed bump in burst damage, but it's actually one of the better looking patches in my opinion. I wouldn't have nerfed Sharpened or Thief—I'd have just buffed other traits and stones. But a couple negatives in no way outweighs the positives.

My biggest issue is that Infernal Guardian wasn't touched—in a 1v1 it's by far the most over performing proc set in the game and I expected it to be given a minimum range nerf. Something along the lines of "Does not proc on targets nearer than 10 meters away."

Still though; Slimecraw buff, Atro buff—sign me up.

hamgatan · July 2017

100pts in thauma. 40 points in master-at-arms. 40 points in precise strikes. 30 in mighty.

5pc vicecannon, 5pc viper, 2pc selene - dw front bar.

cloak.. cloak.. cloak.. HA.. incap.. LA.. viper proc.. vicecannon proc.. selene proc... dead.

new meta?

KochDerDamonen · July 2017

drake88131 wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

Seriously they need to just stop at some point. Let's think about what they really did. Anyone farming for the last year for sharpened weapons just got totally bent over. Anyone farming for viper for the last year just got royally bent over. Etc. problem is they are actually too f***** stupid to see how people like stability more than balance. If they don't just lock it in eventually and let everyone deal with whatever then it will eventually be unplayable. sure everyone was whining about viper but if ZOS just said: "too bad." Then guess what? That's the game and you get a real reward from knowing how to play and deal with it. The way this is going it is legit taking a incredibly bad and horrid direction. I honest to god think I could do better. I really really do. ZOS, I obviously love the game but y'all don't know jack about what players really want and, frankly, I personally feel my patience is running out for you to get it together.

@drake88131 The set now has an identity other than doing occasional random invisible burst damage.

Don't try selling this as something bad

So what you're saying is that you've enjoyed the constant changes and nerfs over the last year or so? You like having to constantly grind the gear to play the same content you used to do but now much later? I'm not talking about viper specifically. I'm talking about the big picture. Problem is there are players and pointlessly vocal forum warriors that can't see the forest for the trees and guess what? ZOS is a big dumb lumberjack that is cutting it all down and not growing any more. Unfortunately they cut the trees down mostly when the forum warriors whine and mark the best trees around. Too many people on this forum r helping them destroy what is the best part of this game. Unsustainable and pointless. For ZOS they think it's great because they still r getting a lot of customers buying their wood (buying the game). Problem is eventually the forest will be gone because they forgot to grow it and they are helping it rot. Most end game players leave this game eventually. People like u are pet of the problem. Something is hard for you to deal with no matter how enjoyable it makes the game for everyone else so you have to scream and complain until you get your way. Stop defending ZOS and justifying what they're doing Bc you want to believe the game will be better some day because of them killing the forest. News flash: it is not better than a year ago. It is not getting better. It will not get better. ZOS is not acting like they like the players and never will. ZOS is likely going to keep treating this game and us players like disposable trash until they have gotten every last cent they can and will move on. You want proof? Read hear forums. When does ZOS engage in a reasonable and rational conversation with anyone about what they want to do? When everyone was upset with morrowind patch did they engage us or care? No. they couldn't even be bothered to talk to one funny man in Nebraska that actually had a following. They tell you how it is and are only responsive when someone is licking their boot or if they feel there's some glitch that doesn't really need fixing that they want to fix. Heck even when the consoles became virtually unplayable they don't engage just tell us they are "looking" into it. But don't worry!!! That crazy wrothgar NPC that eats apples with her cheeks will be fixed soon!!!! In my opinion, the direction is bad and the game is starting to become bad. But what do I know? I'm one of the idiots still buying the wood!!!???

@Drake88131 That's a huge rant that's way off base, again. The Viper change is nice, makes it better as a sustained damage set and reduces the amount of invisible burst in the game. Nerfs aren't some devil magic trying to send our children to hell.

This game has its problems, one of them is not this change to viper.

You're not even listening. I'm not sure why you're even engaging me if you have no desire to discuss anything with me. Again, as I said, I'm not the one off point. The point of my original post was about a bigger picture than your focus on viper. What you want to do is re direct this conversation and troll so I go off the rails and discuss viper specifically. No but I do like that you actually admit to agreeing with me that "the game has its problems..." but since you clearly just want to insult anything I say as a "rant" that is "off base" while ignoring what I say I'm going to just agree to disagree with you and move on. Let me know next year or two when you quit out of frustration like everyone else will (you will too FYI) how wrong and off base I am.

@drake88131 Actually the thread is about viper.

TL;DR

Kay1 · July 2017

Koolio wrote: »

1-1500 Dot with 100% uptime isn't dead lol.

Yeah, you right it's not dead, it's complete *** I'm so happy

Krayzie · July 2017

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

1-1500k Dot with 100% uptime isn't dead lol.

1.5 mil dot? Sounds brutal

How is viper hitting for 1.5m a nerf?

Morgul667 · July 2017

So what to use instead of viper now ?

Kay1 · July 2017

Morgul667 wrote: »

So what to use instead of viper now ?

Skill maybe?

Morgul667 · July 2017

I dont think that's a set :-)

Kay1 · July 2017

Morgul667 wrote: »

I dont think that's a set :-)

I heard you can loot it by playing solo

Morgul667 · July 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I dont think that's a set :-)

I heard you can loot it by playing solo

Seems like you need to face salt and trolls first :-)

klowdy1 · July 2017

I'm looking at venom and viper, with a piece of heavy selene's, maybe a piece of heavy and light going DW. The selene's 2p proc is nice, but the extra damage from the stam. That seems like a nice DoT setup for my stam DK. DoT 'em up, weaving light attacks to proc the other dots. It's nice that it's all poison damage.

mewcatus · July 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

The war on damage continues. This update doesn't seem that bad, there's a lot of stuff I liked. I don't agree with the nerf to proc sets like Viper/Selene/RedMountain as they provide the needed bump in burst damage, but it's actually one of the better looking patches in my opinion. I wouldn't have nerfed Sharpened or Thief—I'd have just buffed other traits and stones. But a couple negatives in no way outweighs the positives.

My biggest issue is that Infernal Guardian wasn't touched—in a 1v1 it's by far the most over performing proc set in the game and I expected it to be given a minimum range nerf. Something along the lines of "Does not proc on targets nearer than 10 meters away."

Still though; Slimecraw buff, Atro buff—sign me up.

1 v 1 will never be fair even amongst classes, IG being good in 1 specific instance of something does not imply a nerf is needed. Balancing around dueling should never be a focus, because eso is not a street fighter-esque brawler centric game, and never was, its more about team based situations.

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

rekt

SnubbS · July 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

The war on damage continues. This update doesn't seem that bad, there's a lot of stuff I liked. I don't agree with the nerf to proc sets like Viper/Selene/RedMountain as they provide the needed bump in burst damage, but it's actually one of the better looking patches in my opinion. I wouldn't have nerfed Sharpened or Thief—I'd have just buffed other traits and stones. But a couple negatives in no way outweighs the positives.

My biggest issue is that Infernal Guardian wasn't touched—in a 1v1 it's by far the most over performing proc set in the game and I expected it to be given a minimum range nerf. Something along the lines of "Does not proc on targets nearer than 10 meters away."

Still though; Slimecraw buff, Atro buff—sign me up.

1 v 1 will never be fair even amongst classes, IG being good in 1 specific instance of something does not imply a nerf is needed. Balancing around dueling should never be a focus, because eso is not a street fighter-esque brawler centric game, and never was, its more about team based situations.

It isn't about it being 'Fair'—IG isn't something that's just "Good" in this instance, it's incredible—it's *** BiS by thirty miles assuming you're fighting one, or even two to three melee builds. Your argument seems to be that it isn't good when you're being zerged down—I know you already know this and are just being ignorant, but nothing is good when you're being zerged down. When you're in a fight where the outcome can actually be influenced by you, i.e. Small scale, 1v1, 2v2, 1v2 etc, the set over-performs. It deals fire damage, and hits for 3-4k. The cooldown begins when the first mortar is shot, so it's really a 4 second cooldown like viper and not 6.

IG proccing on the furthest enemy instead of the nearest is a clear sign that internally, even before it's release, the devs knew how incredible it would be if it procd on the nearest target. People don't run the set because they like firing mortars about 40 meters away from the relevant fight they're having, they run it because when it's a small-scale fight, it's BiS.

The set needs to be made where it will not proc on players who are in a 10 meter radius around you—it's absurd that a 5pc set like Red Mountain or Viper which already deals less damage gets nerfed while an overperforming 2pc set is literally untouched.

Edit: They. Nerfed. Grothdarr.

Repeat Edit: They. Nerfed. Grothdarr. IG is essentially Grothdar that deals quadruple damage and procs more. Clearly the devs take issue with Grothdarr being an unavoidable close range AoE dot with moderate power—so they nerfed it. Where's the IG nerf so that we can prevent it from doing the exact same thing—only four times better—than Grothdarr?

hamgatan · July 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

The war on damage continues. This update doesn't seem that bad, there's a lot of stuff I liked. I don't agree with the nerf to proc sets like Viper/Selene/RedMountain as they provide the needed bump in burst damage, but it's actually one of the better looking patches in my opinion. I wouldn't have nerfed Sharpened or Thief—I'd have just buffed other traits and stones. But a couple negatives in no way outweighs the positives.

My biggest issue is that Infernal Guardian wasn't touched—in a 1v1 it's by far the most over performing proc set in the game and I expected it to be given a minimum range nerf. Something along the lines of "Does not proc on targets nearer than 10 meters away."

Still though; Slimecraw buff, Atro buff—sign me up.

1 v 1 will never be fair even amongst classes, IG being good in 1 specific instance of something does not imply a nerf is needed. Balancing around dueling should never be a focus, because eso is not a street fighter-esque brawler centric game, and never was, its more about team based situations.

It isn't about it being 'Fair'—IG isn't something that's just "Good" in this instance, it's incredible—it's *** BiS by thirty miles assuming you're fighting one, or even two to three melee builds. Your argument seems to be that it isn't good when you're being zerged down—I know you already know this and are just being ignorant, but nothing is good when you're being zerged down. When you're in a fight where the outcome can actually be influenced by you, i.e. Small scale, 1v1, 2v2, 1v2 etc, the set over-performs. It deals fire damage, and hits for 3-4k. The cooldown begins when the first mortar is shot, so it's really a 4 second cooldown like viper and not 6.

IG proccing on the furthest enemy instead of the nearest is a clear sign that internally, even before it's release, the devs knew how incredible it would be if it procd on the nearest target. People don't run the set because they like firing mortars about 40 meters away from the relevant fight they're having, they run it because when it's a small-scale fight, it's BiS.

The set needs to be made where it will not proc on players who are in a 10 meter radius around you—it's absurd that a 5pc set like Red Mountain or Viper which already deals less damage gets nerfed while an overperforming 2pc set is literally untouched.

please don't call for a nerf on this, just learn to not be the furthest away player and you'll be fine - ZOS's mentality on nerf will mean not only will it be nerfed in PvP - but a blanket nerf that covers PvE as well where IG REALLY shines the most - in vMA!

p.s. where is this 1v1 PvP you speak of? i have heard of such things, they are like the holy grail but all I ever find is 12v1...

Knootewoot · July 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

1-1500k Dot with 100% uptime isn't dead lol.

As far as the number one burst combo for stamblades it is lol. No more incap selenes viper all at once.

Not the craziest nerf but boy its a nerf

I don't see it as a nerf but as a fix. Proc sets who all fire at once on a light attack is just a broken mechanic.

I have to wait and see how it performs on PTS this week. I don't use these sets myself but am curious about my survivability against it.

Skullstachio · July 2017

you know because viper is a DoT set now, it will proc the Valkyn skoria set as well.

LadyDestiny · July 2017

I think this was a good change. Viper, VD and Selene have been toxic in pvp lately. It is sad when most stam builds are running this. I am saying this and my main is a nb.

ArchMikem · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

'we're happy with the damage of our proc sets'

They're happy with a base 16k selene dmg.

17k with major beserk

20.2k with incap buff.

Cool.

Tooltip on the fextralife wiki says 12k base damage, and mine is like 13 or 14k. 16k isn't the "base damage".

Koensol · July 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

The war on damage continues. This update doesn't seem that bad, there's a lot of stuff I liked. I don't agree with the nerf to proc sets like Viper/Selene/RedMountain as they provide the needed bump in burst damage, but it's actually one of the better looking patches in my opinion. I wouldn't have nerfed Sharpened or Thief—I'd have just buffed other traits and stones. But a couple negatives in no way outweighs the positives.

My biggest issue is that Infernal Guardian wasn't touched—in a 1v1 it's by far the most over performing proc set in the game and I expected it to be given a minimum range nerf. Something along the lines of "Does not proc on targets nearer than 10 meters away."

Still though; Slimecraw buff, Atro buff—sign me up.

Much needed bump in burst damage?! Are you completely insane? This is the most needed nerf in this game's entire life time. Man I'm so happy they nerfed viper and looked at other sets individually. No blanket nerf this time.

WuffyCerulei · July 2017

THE DIVINES HAVE LISTENED TO OUR PRAYERS. VIPER HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY NERFED.

Ch4mpTW · July 2017

My MagDK is pleased even further by this update. I suppose I will return to PvP'ing full time now.

mewcatus · July 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

It isn't about it being 'Fair'—IG isn't something that's just "Good" in this instance, it's incredible—it's *** BiS by thirty miles assuming you're fighting one, or even two to three melee builds. Your argument seems to be that it isn't good when you're being zerged down—I know you already know this and are just being ignorant, but nothing is good when you're being zerged down. When you're in a fight where the outcome can actually be influenced by you, i.e. Small scale, 1v1, 2v2, 1v2 etc, the set over-performs. It deals fire damage, and hits for 3-4k. The cooldown begins when the first mortar is shot, so it's really a 4 second cooldown like viper and not 6.

IG proccing on the furthest enemy instead of the nearest is a clear sign that internally, even before it's release, the devs knew how incredible it would be if it procd on the nearest target. People don't run the set because they like firing mortars about 40 meters away from the relevant fight they're having, they run it because when it's a small-scale fight, it's BiS.

The set needs to be made where it will not proc on players who are in a 10 meter radius around you—it's absurd that a 5pc set like Red Mountain or Viper which already deals less damage gets nerfed while an overperforming 2pc set is literally untouched.

Edit: They. Nerfed. Grothdarr.

Repeat Edit: They. Nerfed. Grothdarr. IG is essentially Grothdar that deals quadruple damage and procs more. Clearly the devs take issue with Grothdarr being an unavoidable close range AoE dot with moderate power—so they nerfed it. Where's the IG nerf so that we can prevent it from doing the exact same thing—only four times better—than Grothdarr?

I disagree. If it really overperformed that much, then many people would be using it. Yet given that its not all that popular, whats the point of nerfing it then? Popular use is one of the benchmark to why something gets nerfed. You can tell that when both grondarr and Iiambris got the nerf stick.

There is one thing which IG really shines against, and that is burst dps melee. Specifically single gankers. The way IG is built, it functions exceedingly well against solo gankers who come out of nowhere and attempt to burst down a player. IG provides a quick Shield boost, while applying intense damage pressure, especially if the ganker attempts to finish his melee rotations in the immediate vicinity. And that is your real problem. You cannot stand having a direct counter to melee burst gankers. IG is far less effective against mobile classes which deal sustain dps, as they focus more on consistent damage over a prolonged period of time.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

'we're happy with the damage of our proc sets'

They're happy with a base 16k selene dmg.

17k with major beserk

20.2k with incap buff.

Cool.

Tooltip on the fextralife wiki says 12k base damage, and mine is like 13 or 14k. 16k isn't the "base damage".

I mean with cp. Mines 16K easily.

Valencer · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

'we're happy with the damage of our proc sets'

They're happy with a base 16k selene dmg.

17k with major beserk

20.2k with incap buff.

Cool.

I also like how Tremorscale wasn't touched. Hits as hard as viper, is an AoE and automatically puts a really brutal snare on everyone hit.

I mean... yeah.. woohoo, viper nerfed and red mountain and velidreth have a bit of counterplay now, but the problem still won't be fixed and selene/tremorscale/skoria will all still be as insane as they were before. Changes are way too selective.

Vaoh · July 2017

Stam NB are gonna be easy kills now! Probably won't see many either too.

Not that they need buffs.... it's just because for the first time in a long time, Ambush+Incap+Surprise Attack -> Run won't be enough to kill most people anymore. You actually are now forced to learn your class since armor won't carry you.

Also RIP imbalanced Stam DKs that flooded BGs because they could be incredibly tanky with enough procs to deal good damage for them.

GreenhaloX · July 2017

I never noticed it was even alive. Viper is just a poison version of the Red Mountain. Red Mountain isn't all that, either. Spriggan was it for me over Viper; Spriggan on my StamBlade. However, I will give it a little credit, since Hardy have been nerfed with this Morrowind patch.