Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Culture of sharing and its effect on ESO
Massive_Stain
✭✭✭✭
Hi, I was just thinking about something and wanted to share my thoughts on it. We Americans live in a culture of sharing in America. From facebook to YouTube, twitch to these forums, we are bragging and sharing about our latest finds and successes.
Some of the latest and best examples are the set "Burning Spell Weave", and the skill in the Mages Guild skill line "Balance", the skills "crystal fragments", "igneous shield" and many other essential skills to counter one of the most useless updates in ESO history. That's my opinion in the prior sentence by the way.
All of this has happened, because we share everything. People like Deltia and Alcast have exposed grinding spots (Skyreach) and it has been subsequently nerfed into the ground. (Remember when you could have a group of four that got the same exp in Wrothgar public dungeons?).
Sharing has caused nerfs to builds, nerfs to exp bonuses, nerfs to sustain, but it seems like all the "elite" players are looking for is attention, gratification and acknowledgment instead of stability and security in their builds.
Stop sharing, and by proxy, ruining good things.
Some of the latest and best examples are the set "Burning Spell Weave", and the skill in the Mages Guild skill line "Balance", the skills "crystal fragments", "igneous shield" and many other essential skills to counter one of the most useless updates in ESO history. That's my opinion in the prior sentence by the way.
All of this has happened, because we share everything. People like Deltia and Alcast have exposed grinding spots (Skyreach) and it has been subsequently nerfed into the ground. (Remember when you could have a group of four that got the same exp in Wrothgar public dungeons?).
Sharing has caused nerfs to builds, nerfs to exp bonuses, nerfs to sustain, but it seems like all the "elite" players are looking for is attention, gratification and acknowledgment instead of stability and security in their builds.
Stop sharing, and by proxy, ruining good things.
PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM
9
-
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I disagree completely. BSW needed a nerf because it was used by most magicka classes over any other set. The Balance meta of tanking was completely overpowered, now it's viable but doesn't render traditional tanking useless in comparison. Frags nerf came out of nowhere and really hasn't affected magicka sorc that much. Igneous shields is still completely viable and slotted by most tanks anyway.
Sharing on Twitch/Youtube/Forums is an important part in balancing this game. People can complain all they want about the sustain changes and nerfs but the game is probably in the most balanced state since I started playing the game 2 and a half years ago (except proc sets of course, which probably wouldn't have gotten the upcoming nerf if the community wasn't sharing their thoughts and experiences with proc sets)
Edited by Voxicity on July 10, 2017 11:00AM10 -
Cocorocho✭✭✭They are not sharing for just being "helpful", they are streamers/youtubers who make profit from this. More views= more profit.
They are not the reason behind these changes5 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Massive_Stain wrote: »
Stop sharing, and by proxy, ruining good things.
As a more or less non-public person, I agree with this philosophy. I've held the belief for a long time that sharing things of value, diminishes the value of the things you share.
However, at the same time by sharing various pieces of information, you in turn help other people.
That said, with games like this where you have people sharing builds and other tips, their incentive stems from getting more clicks, follows, and donations, which is rooted in a monetary incentive.
They have something to be gained by 'spilling' tactics and secrets, and so will continue doing so.2 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are not sharing for just being "helpful", they are streamers/youtubers who make profit from this. More views= more profit.
They are not the reason behind these changes
Not exactly, but they do find the most efficient/broken builds in the game which people copy and then it becomes common knowledge within the playerbase, and can then be much easier communicated to ZOS with the countless threads or feedback on forums
So in effect, they are helping, just indirectly5 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS has their own statistics (on sets, skills usage, exp/hour gain etc.), that (even if they are usanians) they are not share with anyone
Edited by SilverWF on July 10, 2017 11:04AM- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
1 -
Cocorocho✭✭✭They are not sharing for just being "helpful", they are streamers/youtubers who make profit from this. More views= more profit.
They are not the reason behind these changes
Not exactly, but they do find the most efficient/broken builds in the game which people copy and then it becomes common knowledge within the playerbase, and can then be much easier communicated to ZOS with the countless threads or feedback on forums
So in effect, they are helping, just indirectly
They find and set the meta by finding the optimal build for XXX content yes. Does it mean these builds are broken just becase they perform better than other sets though. These guys spend tens of hours testing different sets/skills and stuff to find the best. BSW was nerfed because it was overperforming compared to other sets but now if you compare necropotence with any other set for mag sorc, necropotence is broken... right?0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are not sharing for just being "helpful", they are streamers/youtubers who make profit from this. More views= more profit.
They are not the reason behind these changes
Not exactly, but they do find the most efficient/broken builds in the game which people copy and then it becomes common knowledge within the playerbase, and can then be much easier communicated to ZOS with the countless threads or feedback on forums
So in effect, they are helping, just indirectly
They find and set the meta by finding the optimal build for XXX content yes. Does it mean these builds are broken just becase they perform better than other sets though. These guys spend tens of hours testing different sets/skills and stuff to find the best. BSW was nerfed because it was overperforming compared to other sets but now if you compare necropotence with any other set for mag sorc, necropotence is broken... right?
But you can't use necropotence on every other magicka class, whereas with BSW you could and would if you wanted to output the most dps. From my understanding it seems like they want to have a top set for each class, rather than a top set for every class across the board.0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭I disagree completely. BSW needed a nerf because it was used by most magicka classes over any other set. The Balance meta of tanking was completely overpowered, now it's viable but doesn't render traditional tanking useless in comparison. Frags nerf came out of nowhere and really hasn't affected magicka sorc that much. Igneous shields is still completely viable and slotted by most tanks anyway.
Sharing on Twitch/Youtube/Forums is an important part in balancing this game. People can complain all they want about the sustain changes and nerfs but the game is probably in the most balanced state since I started playing the game 2 and a half years ago (except proc sets of course, which probably wouldn't have gotten the upcoming nerf if the community wasn't sharing their thoughts and experiences with proc sets)
You say things needed a nerf because they where being used essentially. I do not agree. Igneous shields was never used for the shields, and all tanks know it. Think about what you are bandwaggoning. Balance was never a meta. It was a very niche skill, used to get a clear on a useless trial for bragging rights.Massive_Stain wrote: »
Stop sharing, and by proxy, ruining good things.
As a more or less non-public person, I agree with this philosophy. I've held the belief for a long time that sharing things of value, diminishes the value of the things you share.
However, at the same time by sharing various pieces of information, you in turn help other people.
That said, with games like this where you have people sharing builds and other tips, their incentive stems from getting more clicks, follows, and donations, which is rooted in a monetary incentive.
They have something to be gained by 'spilling' tactics and secrets, and so will continue doing so.
My only counter to this, is the last bit. They might be helping short term, but long term they are hindering.Edited by Massive_Stain on July 10, 2017 11:26AMPC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM1 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »I disagree completely. BSW needed a nerf because it was used by most magicka classes over any other set. The Balance meta of tanking was completely overpowered, now it's viable but doesn't render traditional tanking useless in comparison. Frags nerf came out of nowhere and really hasn't affected magicka sorc that much. Igneous shields is still completely viable and slotted by most tanks anyway.
Sharing on Twitch/Youtube/Forums is an important part in balancing this game. People can complain all they want about the sustain changes and nerfs but the game is probably in the most balanced state since I started playing the game 2 and a half years ago (except proc sets of course, which probably wouldn't have gotten the upcoming nerf if the community wasn't sharing their thoughts and experiences with proc sets)
You say things needed a nerf because they where being used essentially. I do not agree. Igneous shields was never used for the shields, and all tanks know it. Think about what you are bandwaggoning.
Not really. Things needed a nerf because they were way stronger than the 'second place' setups to run. It's okay to have strong sets in the game, but not when it's run by every single class. That just makes other sets completely useless.
I also never said igneous shields was used for the shields, however you will actually find if you look into it, the shield from igneous can be a great thing for your group in a vTrial even after the nerf of shield size it gives to allies.
I fail to see how I am 'bandwaggoning' though. I'm speaking objectively about the balance of the game. If anything, you're the one bandwaggoning with your "most useless update in ESO history."
If I had 10k for every time I heard those exact words this past month, I'd be able to afford a trader in craglorn
Edited by Voxicity on July 10, 2017 11:29AM4 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »I disagree completely. BSW needed a nerf because it was used by most magicka classes over any other set. The Balance meta of tanking was completely overpowered, now it's viable but doesn't render traditional tanking useless in comparison. Frags nerf came out of nowhere and really hasn't affected magicka sorc that much. Igneous shields is still completely viable and slotted by most tanks anyway.
Sharing on Twitch/Youtube/Forums is an important part in balancing this game. People can complain all they want about the sustain changes and nerfs but the game is probably in the most balanced state since I started playing the game 2 and a half years ago (except proc sets of course, which probably wouldn't have gotten the upcoming nerf if the community wasn't sharing their thoughts and experiences with proc sets)
You say things needed a nerf because they where being used essentially. I do not agree. Igneous shields was never used for the shields, and all tanks know it. Think about what you are bandwaggoning.
Not really. Things needed a nerf because they were way stronger than the 'second place' setups to run. It's okay to have strong sets in the game, but not when it's run by every single class. That just makes other sets completely useless.
I also never said igneous shields was used for the shields, however you will actually find if you look into it, the shield from igneous can be a great thing for your group in a vTrial even after the nerf of shield size it gives to allies.
I fail to see how I am 'bandwaggoning' though. I'm speaking objectively about the balance of the game. If anything, you're the one bandwaggoning with your "most useless update in ESO history."
If I had 10k for every time I heard those exact words this past month, I'd be able to afford a trader in craglorn
Lets talk about the trial. Master architect 4 piece. Same as Moondancer yes? All 5 piece damage dealer "bonuses" are dps loss. That has been tested.
Igneous shields was used by "traditional tanks" to generate stamina. What set you get out of the new trial is actually going to be used? Do you know? I am in several conpetitive trial guilds and none of them recommend the major slayer or major aegis sets.
They are simply underwhelming. Now as far as the over land sets from Vvardenfel; name one that will be good for competitive end game PVE. And please, don't say war maiden.PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭Thread derailment is real with the yesmans on the forums lolPC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM1 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Why? This is cool set for mag NB and Tamplars. Sure, they both has Scathing Mage (that will be BIS, I'm sure), but War Maiden is much easier to get.Massive_Stain wrote: »They are simply underwhelming. Now as far as the over land sets from Vvardenfel; name one that will be good for competitive end game PVE. And please, don't say war maiden.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
2 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »I disagree completely. BSW needed a nerf because it was used by most magicka classes over any other set. The Balance meta of tanking was completely overpowered, now it's viable but doesn't render traditional tanking useless in comparison. Frags nerf came out of nowhere and really hasn't affected magicka sorc that much. Igneous shields is still completely viable and slotted by most tanks anyway.
Sharing on Twitch/Youtube/Forums is an important part in balancing this game. People can complain all they want about the sustain changes and nerfs but the game is probably in the most balanced state since I started playing the game 2 and a half years ago (except proc sets of course, which probably wouldn't have gotten the upcoming nerf if the community wasn't sharing their thoughts and experiences with proc sets)
You say things needed a nerf because they where being used essentially. I do not agree. Igneous shields was never used for the shields, and all tanks know it. Think about what you are bandwaggoning.
Not really. Things needed a nerf because they were way stronger than the 'second place' setups to run. It's okay to have strong sets in the game, but not when it's run by every single class. That just makes other sets completely useless.
I also never said igneous shields was used for the shields, however you will actually find if you look into it, the shield from igneous can be a great thing for your group in a vTrial even after the nerf of shield size it gives to allies.
I fail to see how I am 'bandwaggoning' though. I'm speaking objectively about the balance of the game. If anything, you're the one bandwaggoning with your "most useless update in ESO history."
If I had 10k for every time I heard those exact words this past month, I'd be able to afford a trader in craglorn
Lets talk about the trial. Master architect 4 piece. Same as Moondancer yes? All 5 piece damage dealer "bonuses" are dps loss. That has been tested.
Igneous shields was used by "traditional tanks" to generate stamina. What set you get out of the new trial is actually going to be used? Do you know? I am in several conpetitive trial guilds and none of them recommend the major slayer or major aegis sets.
They are simply underwhelming. Now as far as the over land sets from Vvardenfel; name one that will be good for competitive end game PVE. And please, don't say war maiden.
So basically you're a meta chaser
But you don't want the meta to be nerfed
Even though it's the meta and everyone uses the same stuff and ZOS can clearly see that using their own data so they're gonna nerf it anyway?2 -
DivinityDay✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »Hi, I was just thinking about something and wanted to share my thoughts on it. We Americans live in a culture of sharing in America. From facebook to YouTube, twitch to these forums, we are bragging and sharing about our latest finds and successes.
Some of the latest and best examples are the set "Burning Spell Weave", and the skill in the Mages Guild skill line "Balance", the skills "crystal fragments", "igneous shield" and many other essential skills to counter one of the most useless updates in ESO history. That's my opinion in the prior sentence by the way.
All of this has happened, because we share everything. People like Deltia and Alcast have exposed grinding spots (Skyreach) and it has been subsequently nerfed into the ground. (Remember when you could have a group of four that got the same exp in Wrothgar public dungeons?).
Sharing has caused nerfs to builds, nerfs to exp bonuses, nerfs to sustain, but it seems like all the "elite" players are looking for is attention, gratification and acknowledgment instead of stability and security in their builds.
Stop sharing, and by proxy, ruining good things.
Amen!@AmariaNaria's chars:
NA - PC
Divinity Day Sorc DPS - AD
Amaria Day DK TANK - AD WW
Talia Shade NB BOW/DW - AD WW
Amaria Naria NB 2H/DW - AD WW
Kali Day Magplar - AD VAMP
Dekaria Bombblade AD0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »Thread derailment is real with the yesmans on the forums lol
You can't use the term derailment if you contribute to the derailing yourself, in your own thread3 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Apart from that whole part where they have a team which goes over the data and flags this stuff without being shared.Massive_Stain wrote: »All of this has happened, because we share everything. People like Deltia and Alcast have exposed grinding spots (Skyreach) and it has been subsequently nerfed into the ground. (Remember when you could have a group of four that got the same exp in Wrothgar public dungeons?).
Sharing has caused nerfs to builds, nerfs to exp bonuses, nerfs to sustain, but it seems like all the "elite" players are looking for is attention, gratification and acknowledgment instead of stability and security in their builds.
Stop sharing, and by proxy, ruining good things.
They'll know what needs a nerf even if if someone doesn't say about it.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Why? This is cool set for mag NB and Tamplars. Sure, they both has Scathing Mage (that will be BIS, I'm sure), but War Maiden is much easier to get.Massive_Stain wrote: »They are simply underwhelming. Now as far as the over land sets from Vvardenfel; name one that will be good for competitive end game PVE. And please, don't say war maiden.
"Name a viable set from vvardenfell for competitive end game PvE... but don't name that one viable set, and don't name that other one, or the other."5 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The most shocking thing about this thread is the fact I am agreeing with Voxicity and we're not trolling one another for once.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sharing is caring.
Also, not all streamers are American.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU2 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »Hi, I was just thinking about something and wanted to share my thoughts on it. We Americans live in a culture of sharing in America. From facebook to YouTube, twitch to these forums, we are bragging and sharing about our latest finds and successes.
People like Deltia and Alcast
Alcast is from Switzerland and AFAIK it is not in America nor it is related to it in any way and doesn't look like to be in the nearby future.
Alcast videos, guides and tips are valuable and I can't imagine this game without him sharing his latest discoveries. He does a great job.
3 -
ofSunhold✭✭✭✭✭Information is good. More information is better. Let the chips fall as they may.Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.3 -
Karm1cOne✭✭✭✭✭Any time there becomes one set or skill that is objectively always better than anything else, a nerf is the correct path. Both on terms of build variety and keeping the game competitive.2 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sharing culture? Current culture is I like you if you like me. In the 90s, when the piracy was everywhere that was sharing. If you lived the 90s, you would understand this is faaar from sharing.Edited by Sausage on July 10, 2017 2:15PM2 -
DaiKahn✭✭✭✭
On a large scale outside the game? Yes, I agreeMassive_Stain wrote: »...Stop sharing, and by proxy, ruining good things...
I find sharing in game much more acceptable and better. Like finding someone having trouble and helping them with the movement of a Boss, "better" set up, quests, secrets, etc. etc. I find it more rewarding and personalI'm just a manHail Sithis0
