Was Orsinium designed to be a Chapter before they came up with the concept?

MaKTaiL · July 2017

I was wondering. Morrowind and Orsinium are very similar in story content and size. I think Orsinium was designed to be the very first Expansion/Chapter, but ended up being released as a DLC instead.

Narvuntien · July 2017

Still think it should all be DLC. I would of released morrowind as three different pieces of DLC. vvandenfell, warden and battlegrounds.

That is basically the big difference there was a new class and a new PVP arena tacked on as well.
If you just want to quest on your exisiting characters it is still behind a pay wall.

I suspect they still would of made more money selling the pieces seperately, they aren't using the F(B)tP model well.

Tryxus · July 2017

I think it's the opposite: that Morrowind was supposed to have been a DLC as well, but due to the new class and Battlegrounds it had to be turned it into an upgrade like the Imperial Edition

Publius_Scipio · July 2017

I think the idea for a chapter happened after Orsinium. Morrowind is a chapter because you're getting a new class and PvP type with Battlegrounds.

But the whole argument of DLC vs Chapter is a moot one. Morrowind could have been "DLC" and still cost the same $ as Morrowind the "chapter" does.

dpencil1 · July 2017

No. They explained their central reasoning for why Morrowind had to be a cash payment as opposed to DLC. It's all about the Warden. They said they didn't want to have Warden be something that was part of a DLC because of issues with people dropping ESO+ or just signing up for one month to get access to creating a Warden. They couldn't just cut off access to a Warden you'd made, but they didn't want people to game the system either.

So you can expect that any time they add a new class , it will be a cash payment.

Cêltic421 · July 2017

Orsinium wasn't a "chapter" or ZoS would have added more content related to Orsinium with dlcs like they are doing with Morrowind.

Magdalina · July 2017

I think Orsinium was designed to be a proper DLC before they realized they can equally well get money for tiny TG-size DLCs AND get extras for "chapters".

Elsonso · July 2017

MaKTaiL wrote: »

I was wondering. Morrowind and Orsinium are very similar in story content and size. I think Orsinium was designed to be the very first Expansion/Chapter, but ended up being released as a DLC instead.

No. Orsinium was conceived before they dreamed up Chapters, as near as I can tell.

I think Morrowind was part of the decision to do Chapters

Hämähäkki · July 2017

I think they realized that they could screw the eso+ subs even a little more by calling it a chapter instead of a dlc. If they would've come up with this idea earlier people had to pay earlier for extra content.

runagate · July 2017

No.

Originally ZOS stated their revenue model very explicitly was (1) buy the game (2) pay a subscription (3) content will be added ever 30 to 60 days.

So compared to their current way of draining our wallets how does that original offer sound?

It's changed in many ways since launch. One promise was for excellent customer service. Now you get an autoreply email.

stevepdodson_ESO888 · July 2017

based on the timing of when things have been discovered through data mining (e.g. Orsinium, Clcokwork City, Murkmire, Morrowind...etc) everything was designed to be a DLC. The idea of chapters came after when they thought of squeezing us for the very last penny we have.

Ch4mpTW · July 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

I think Orsinium was designed to be a proper DLC before they realized they can equally well get money for tiny TG-size DLCs AND get extras for "chapters".

Orsinium is still the best DLC, by far. At least in my opinion. >_>

Elsonso · July 2017

runagate wrote: »

No.

Originally ZOS stated their revenue model very explicitly was (1) buy the game (2) pay a subscription (3) content will be added ever 30 to 60 days.

So compared to their current way of draining our wallets how does that original offer sound?

It's changed in many ways since launch. One promise was for excellent customer service. Now you get an autoreply email.

No argument here. The number of things that were sacrificed in the worship of the Crown Store has saddened me.

Darlgon · July 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

No.

Originally ZOS stated their revenue model very explicitly was (1) buy the game (2) pay a subscription (3) content will be added ever 30 to 60 days.

So compared to their current way of draining our wallets how does that original offer sound?

It's changed in many ways since launch. One promise was for excellent customer service. Now you get an autoreply email.

No argument here. The number of things that were sacrificed in the worship of the Crown Store has saddened me.

Yep..

To be added.. Orsinium was already in development when the game launched. It was never to be an expansion. Morrowind was part way thru development when they had to revamp the game to the ONE TAMRIEL playstyle being demanded by the players. Someone had to pay for all that redesign.

ParaNostram · July 2017

MaKTaiL wrote: »

I was wondering. Morrowind and Orsinium are very similar in story content and size. I think Orsinium was designed to be the very first Expansion/Chapter, but ended up being released as a DLC instead.

Vvardenfell is Bout 30-40% larger than Orsinium

exeeter702 · July 2017

Ok... there is a lot of misconception here.

Many people dont realize that the majority of orsinium as well as IC, tg and db were already in development pre launch and post launch of eso. The assets were already in the works.

Zos essentially shot themselves in the foot so to speak in that releasing orsiniun and ic as dlc essentially set the unrealistic expectations of what a dlc would be in the players eyes. Realistically, going from zero to complete within the 3-4 month update cadence is next to impossible when dealing with something on the scale of orsinium and ic.

Orsinium was released as a dlc when in reality it was as much a part of the initial games development budget. The same applies to IC and most of tg and db. What is the first dlc we recieved that was exclusivley developed post launch? Yep, SOTH. Horns is in the same vein. These types of dlc can be produced in that 3 to 4 month development window.

Everything in the game excluding SOTH is a culmination of work that took place during the initial development of game. If i had to hazard a guess i would say the chapter strategy was put into motion well before the development of morrowind. Where they knew that updates on the scale of orsinium and ic being developed from the ground up would easily take 8 to 10 months of development time.

exeeter702 · July 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

MaKTaiL wrote: »

I was wondering. Morrowind and Orsinium are very similar in story content and size. I think Orsinium was designed to be the very first Expansion/Chapter, but ended up being released as a DLC instead.

Vvardenfell is Bout 30-40% larger than Orsinium

Stop it.. in actual content they are nearly on par with one another minus bgs and warden.

ParaNostram · July 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

MaKTaiL wrote: »

I was wondering. Morrowind and Orsinium are very similar in story content and size. I think Orsinium was designed to be the very first Expansion/Chapter, but ended up being released as a DLC instead.

Vvardenfell is Bout 30-40% larger than Orsinium

Stop it.. in actual content they are nearly on par with one another minus bgs and warden.

Stop what, chiming in with information? Challenging misconceptions born from a misunderstanding of different map scales?

exeeter702 · July 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

MaKTaiL wrote: »

I was wondering. Morrowind and Orsinium are very similar in story content and size. I think Orsinium was designed to be the very first Expansion/Chapter, but ended up being released as a DLC instead.

Vvardenfell is Bout 30-40% larger than Orsinium

Stop it.. in actual content they are nearly on par with one another minus bgs and warden.

Stop what, chiming in with information? Challenging misconceptions born from a misunderstanding of different map scales?

You knew exactly what the person you quoted was saying. Saying vvardenfell was 30 to 40 percent larger is disingenuous at best. Vvardenfell was found to be roughly that much larger in landmass minus red mountain. Its still just a bunch of empty extra space with nearly the same amount of quests, world bosses and delves as orsinium. Its window dressing. For all intents and purposes, vvardenfell the island is on the same level as wrothgar.

Elsonso · July 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ok... there is a lot of misconception here.

Many people dont realize that the majority of orsinium as well as IC, tg and db were already in development pre launch and post launch of eso. The assets were already in the works.

Zos essentially shot themselves in the foot so to speak in that releasing orsiniun and ic as dlc essentially set the unrealistic expectations of what a dlc would be in the players eyes. Realistically, going from zero to complete within the 3-4 month update cadence is next to impossible when dealing with something on the scale of orsinium and ic.

Orsinium was released as a dlc when in reality it was as much a part of the initial games development budget. The same applies to IC and most of tg and db. What is the first dlc we recieved that was exclusivley developed post launch? Yep, SOTH. Horns is in the same vein. These types of dlc can be produced in that 3 to 4 month development window.

Everything in the game excluding SOTH is a culmination of work that took place during the initial development of game. If i had to hazard a guess i would say the chapter strategy was put into motion well before the development of morrowind. Where they knew that updates on the scale of orsinium and ic being developed from the ground up would easily take 8 to 10 months of development time.

I don't know about Hew's Bane, but I expect that Gold Coast was started after launch. Probably Hew's Bane, too.

exeeter702 · July 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ok... there is a lot of misconception here.

Many people dont realize that the majority of orsinium as well as IC, tg and db were already in development pre launch and post launch of eso. The assets were already in the works.

Zos essentially shot themselves in the foot so to speak in that releasing orsiniun and ic as dlc essentially set the unrealistic expectations of what a dlc would be in the players eyes. Realistically, going from zero to complete within the 3-4 month update cadence is next to impossible when dealing with something on the scale of orsinium and ic.

Orsinium was released as a dlc when in reality it was as much a part of the initial games development budget. The same applies to IC and most of tg and db. What is the first dlc we recieved that was exclusivley developed post launch? Yep, SOTH. Horns is in the same vein. These types of dlc can be produced in that 3 to 4 month development window.

Everything in the game excluding SOTH is a culmination of work that took place during the initial development of game. If i had to hazard a guess i would say the chapter strategy was put into motion well before the development of morrowind. Where they knew that updates on the scale of orsinium and ic being developed from the ground up would easily take 8 to 10 months of development time.

I don't know about Hew's Bane, but I expect that Gold Coast was started after launch. Probably Hew's Bane, too.

Certian elements / assets of both TG and DB were confirmed in development simultaneously long before the console version released. So at the very least, they had a much longer time in the oven than a standard dlc develpoment cycle.

idk · July 2017

I would suggest Wrothgar would not have been an expansion as it was.

Wrothgar.

Sizable questing zone.
Arena.

Vvardenfell

Sizable questing zone.
Trial
Battlegrounds (maybe next expansion will include the Group Finder)
New class

Much more added value to Morrowind.

MarbleQuiche · July 2017

Here's some trivia: Shakespeare originally penned Romeo and Juliet as a screenplay and wrote the main parts with Kate Winslet and Leonardo Di Caprio in mind.

Not many people know that

zaria · July 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

I think it's the opposite: that Morrowind was supposed to have been a DLC as well, but due to the new class and Battlegrounds it had to be turned it into an upgrade like the Imperial Edition

Pretty much this, they also assumed that majority of eso+ player would buy it anyway.

Publius_Scipio · July 2017

MarbleQuiche wrote: »

Here's some trivia: Shakespeare originally penned Romeo and Juliet as a screenplay and wrote the main parts with Kate Winslet and Leonardo Di Caprio in mind.

Not many people know that

You have confused Claire Danes with Kate Winslet. Winslet was on the Titanic.

mwo1480 · July 2017

feels like they didnt want to let subs pay mre then buth thought this time , ugh whatever

DaveMoeDee · July 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

I think it's the opposite: that Morrowind was supposed to have been a DLC as well, but due to the new class and Battlegrounds it had to be turned it into an upgrade like the Imperial Edition

Partly correct. Morrowind became a chapter because they wanted more revenue.

It is nonsense if they claim they had to make it a chapter because of Warden for a few reasons.

1. They changed the model to annual chapters. They will not have new classes annually. The new class is not the reason for all large DLC zones like Orsinium and Morrowind being "chapters" in the future.
2. They could have sold the warden separately like Imperial. Problem solved.
3. They wanted to make Morrowind cash only. We can buy Imperial with crowns, even though it is not included in ESO+. We can buy Orsinium with crowns. Heck, I bought Orsinium from a 5500 crown back I bought for $24 in the first crown sale around the launch. Morrowind brings in more revenue being cash only from both subbers and those who buy DLC outright.

Any claims that there was something intrinsic to Morrowind that made it necessary to make it a "chapter" is post hoc misdirection.

I am fine with the new model, but if Orsinium was going to be released next year, it would be a chapter, not a crown store DLC, and likely with little changed from what was released before.

DaveMoeDee · July 2017

Btw, it is quite clear that Orsinium would be a chapter if released now since the only DLC now are 2 dungeons and a small zone. Orsinium is neither.

I remember having arguments with players who naively thought Morrowind was going to be a drastic change in the game. They were wrong. I would also warn those who think all chapters will have as much content as Morrowind. Don't assume that. They also likely won't have as much hype. Morrowind tried to use fondness for TES 3 and the game's anniversary to attract players. That can't be repeated. Warden was a class they developed in beta. Do they have a backlog of other classes to release in other chapters? BG is something long requested. What other game modes have been promised? The next chapter might be like Orsinium, but with a different solo arena, or no new game mode. Or maybe a 1v1 mode.

I suppose they could release a zone that also includes additional PvP content like IC. So have a PvE zone and a PvP zone in the same chapter. That could be one way to make the next chapter seem like more than just another Orsinium.

Tryxus · July 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

2. They could have sold the warden separately like Imperial. Problem solved.

Exactamundo