CP returns? Why bother maxing?

InFernalEntity · July 2017

All stars that offer a 15% boost at 100 offer a 14% boost at 75 and a 10.22% boost at 43.

Surely in some cases (I'm thinking damage stars or damage reduction stars) it's actually more beneficial to my DPS or survivability to put say...

75 in to Critical Damage
75 in to Base Damage
60 in to Damage over time

Than

100 Base damage
110 in to the other 2

Or... surely more beneficial to my survivability to go:

75 physical damage reduced
75 magic damage reduced
60 physical and spell resistance stars.

Than:
200 damage reduction stars.
10 left over?

I feel like 25 points in to another star could outweigh that 1% in most cases?

What do you guys think?
Is there still a reason to dump 100 CP in to some of these stars?
Or is it not worth it anymore?

Dantaria · July 2017

InFernalEntity wrote: »

I feel like 25 points in to another star could outweigh that 1% in most cases?

Damn straight

No reason to dump 100 whatsoever. Much better to split and be more survivable.

I have to put 81 in Thaumaturgy for Exploiter passive and even that feels like a huge waste

If not for Exploiter, I for sure wouldn't bother.

75 in Arcanist and 75 in Tenacity is enough - better put the rest in cost-reduction of roll-dodge and/or break-free.

I do feel a problem on my Healer in blue tree, though, if I am to be honest. As a DD I have a choice - Thaumaturgy, Spell Erosion, Master-At-Arms, Ele Expert, Elfborn... On a Healer? Blessed and Elfborn, the rest is pretty much useless. Gotta put something in Staff Expert... for lolz

You max out only if there is no choice. Otherwise? Not worth it.

Banana · July 2017

Ya dont. That was why they adjusted everything. Spread it around. Ive learnt to live with it.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

I just checked for penetrative too.

100 = 5280
75 = 4950
50 = 3960

There's literally no reason to put anymore than 75 in to a single star... the returns are awful.

@Dantaria I understand the struggle. After tenacity and mooncalf I literally don't know where to put the rest of my CP because it won't make a huge difference lol. 30 points in tumbling seems excessive but the passives are nice I suppose.

mesmerizedish · July 2017

The entire purpose to adjusting diminishing returns was to discourage people from putting 100 points in a single star, so mission accomplished.

disintegr8 · July 2017

That's the reasoning behind the changes - so people don't feel the need to put 100 points into any one item and can spread them out a bit.

I don't think I have gone beyond 13% on anything as the 36 points I am saving are far more beneficial elsewhere. Instead of setting 2 in the same constellation to 15% with 100 points each, you can have 3 set to 13% with 64 points in each - I am sure that can be far more helpful.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

Before the patch I can think of only two passivea that it wasn't worth dumping 100 points in to and those are the cost reduction passives. 90 gave 15%. 100 gave 16%. And the same rule kind of applied.

It's nice not having to max everything.

raj72616a · July 2017

yes they made it this way so no one have reason to specialize, and everyone can be the same
likewise some passives and skills are nerfed to scaled to character level instead of scaled to magicka/stamina, so that min-maxing become less meaningful and everyone can be the same

SoLooney · July 2017

ehh, the only ones i would dump a lot into is 75 for thaumaturge and yes, I feel its worthwhile to have 100 into 15% stam or mag recovery

leepalmer95 · July 2017

56 is a nice number as well

Its 20% of the 25% stars

13% of the 15% stars

I read somewhere that the stars always round down this patch so if your not at the next whole number its wasted cp.

Tasear · July 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

InFernalEntity wrote: »

I feel like 25 points in to another star could outweigh that 1% in most cases?

Damn straight

No reason to dump 100 whatsoever. Much better to split and be more survivable.

I have to put 81 in Thaumaturgy for Exploiter passive and even that feels like a huge waste If not for Exploiter, I for sure wouldn't bother.

75 in Arcanist and 75 in Tenacity is enough - better put the rest in cost-reduction of roll-dodge and/or break-free.

I do feel a problem on my Healer in blue tree, though, if I am to be honest. As a DD I have a choice - Thaumaturgy, Spell Erosion, Master-At-Arms, Ele Expert, Elfborn... On a Healer? Blessed and Elfborn, the rest is pretty much useless. Gotta put something in Staff Expert... for lolz

You max out only if there is no choice. Otherwise? Not worth it.

for a week it was scaling off thaumtage and arm master, but they changed it back after morriwind patch. :'(

Though there's always staff expert. If someone really wanted to they could make heavy attack Healer. Use Noble duelist set and essence drain passive of resto line. The pro of build would be roll Dodge knocks enemies off balanced. Would be good for nightblade Healer maybe and pvp. Also well fitted gear, powered or sharpened staffs...it would be interesting.

KochDerDamonen · July 2017

Absolutely, there's huge data stores and graphs made for exactly this purpose, of course your numbers can change if you use a different rotation and have different amounts of AoE/DoT/DD in your build

Tasear · July 2017

43 is a good number but I put 100 points in magic Regain since I am a bosmer. In return I already have stamina for break free and dogde.

idk · July 2017

For reducing damage OP is forgetting Thick Skinned and Iron Clad which do much more than the physical and spell resist stars. Every type of damage is mitigated by either Think Skinned or Iron Clad.

Your also forgetting similar for doing damage. OP has Thaumaturge (DoT) listed but leaves out Master at Arms. Significant oversight.

But is correct in questioning placing 25 pts for a mere 1% increase.

disintegr8 · July 2017

SoLooney wrote: »

ehh, the only ones i would dump a lot into is 75 for thaumaturge and yes, I feel its worthwhile to have 100 into 15% stam or mag recovery

I guess it is up to each person to work out of the extra 1% makes that much difference when it consumes 25 CP. You can work out your resource management in other ways - food, potions, enchants.

Rather than push too much into magicka recovery, my preference is to have jewelry item/s with a reduce magicka cost enchant as I feel the less magicka I consume, the less I have to rely on max recovery.

Mondini · July 2017

Read the patch notes

InFernalEntity · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

56 is a nice number as well

Its 20% of the 25% stars

13% of the 15% stars

I read somewhere that the stars always round down this patch so if your not at the next whole number its wasted cp.

I was considering 83 maybe being a nice number because it's gives 14.5% from the 15% stars but if this is true and it rounds down that's a waste of 8 CP. It's a weird way to do it but I suppose it keeps things simple.

DisgracefulMind · July 2017

Exactly why CP distribution is a lot better now. You have the ability to put points into other useful stars without sacrificing huge losses like you used to.

Vercingetorix · July 2017

There is currently no reason to play ESO right now due to:
- lack of server stability
- lack of sustain makes build diversity non-existent
- monotonous and slow gameplay
- heavy attacking is the only form of DPS that is allowed in Morrowind
- zero balance in PvP
- ineffective and unrequested nerfs as a result of PvP ruin PvE content
- non-operating group finder
- ZoS refusing to communicate with player base about the issues ESO is suffering from

Pick your favorite one and uninstall the game for 6 months.

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

Penetration is the only skill slightly worth the argument, especially if you don't roll sharpened weapon, but aside from that no you should never go above the jump point around 75 points ever.

josiahva · July 2017

I dont put more than 50 into ANYTHING. Its a complete waste unless you are looking for a certain perk. The CP are better spent elsewhere.

Kodrac · July 2017

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Exactly why CP distribution is a lot better now. You have the ability to put points into other useful stars without sacrificing huge losses like you used to.

Better? There's no diversity anymore. Once you have enough CP you can get all the good stuff, ignore the bad stuff and then copy/paste on to all your other toons regardless of their class/role. How is that better? It's boring.

Tecorsuh · July 2017

InFernalEntity wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

56 is a nice number as well

Its 20% of the 25% stars

13% of the 15% stars

I read somewhere that the stars always round down this patch so if your not at the next whole number its wasted cp.

I was considering 83 maybe being a nice number because it's gives 14.5% from the 15% stars but if this is true and it rounds down that's a waste of 8 CP. It's a weird way to do it but I suppose it keeps things simple.

There is a thing in the cp trees that people have been calling "jump points". In any star that gives a % increase it truncates the decimal. For example, if you're at 14.6% it will only be giving you 14%.

The ones that give a static number, or a % cost reduction, you're fine to put what ever number of points into them, it's just the % increases ones you need to worry about.

There are threads on the forums that go into the math and research behind it, if anyone is curious about it.

disintegr8 · July 2017

The reasons why I still enjoy playing in bold italics:

Vercingetorix wrote: »

- There is currently no reason to play ESO right now due to:
- lack of server stability - Not seeing any issues in PS4 NA - in fact it's more stable than 6 months ago
- lack of sustain makes build diversity non-existent - I just adapted slightly and am fine
- monotonous and slow gameplay - Nothing different to a year ago - maybe I like monotony
- heavy attacking is the only form of DPS that is allowed in Morrowind - Not playing Morrowind
- zero balance in PvP - Has always been an issue - I die, so what?
- ineffective and unrequested nerfs as a result of PvP ruin PvE content - What about the buffs?
- non-operating group finder - Haven't used group finder for ages, not running dungeons
- ZoS refusing to communicate with player base about the issues ESO is suffering from - I had a response to the only issue I ever requested assistance for 100% positive results for me

Pick your favorite one and uninstall the game for 6 months.

laksikus · July 2017

Ill throw in mine as well

Vercingetorix wrote: »

There is currently no reason to play ESO right now due to:
- lack of server stability - lag in pvp comes and goes, doesnt really bother me
- lack of sustain makes build diversity non-existent - i dont see any changes in nocp pvp, and pve sustain was overperfomring before the patch
- monotonous and slow gameplay - thats why I do pvp and pve, pve is all about rotation and mechanic and pvp is all about fast decision, a nice mix
- heavy attacking is the only form of DPS that is allowed in Morrowind no
- zero balance in PvP - balance? there cant be a balanced game unless you have only 1 class with 2 skills and no gear
- ineffective and unrequested nerfs as a result of PvP ruin PvE content - dont blame pvp for pve changes, there has been more changes to pve that affect pvp than the other way around
- non-operating group finder - who cares, form your own groups for pve
- ZoS refusing to communicate with player base about the issues ESO is suffering from - can i have your stuff?

Pick your favorite one and uninstall the game for 6 months.

Rex-Umbra · July 2017

Spread em out

LiquidPony · July 2017

josiahva wrote: »

I dont put more than 50 into ANYTHING. Its a complete waste unless you are looking for a certain perk. The CP are better spent elsewhere.

Nonsense.

You can plug your Combat Metrics damage breakdown into Asayre's CP optimizer and you'll end up with more than 50 points in several places.

I have 56 in Elemental Expert and 61 in Master-at-Arms on my magblade.

BigES · July 2017

I do most of my own calculations, but in case you're wondering, here's the curve they use to diminish each CP node.

Every tree/node follows this same curve.

From a utility/optimization standpoint, anything beyond 75 points is not really worth the investment. It starts to significantly diminish at roughly 50.