Is the Goal of the Next Event to Stop Player Loss?

KingMagaw · July 2017

My personal opinion/experience is this: Games population is dying.

I see some new players low CP and such building up but i am seeing high CP players less and less and only 8/100 on my friends list sign on atm, most have left to other games over any of the many issues with ESO.

Steam charts track it and Z0£ refuse to be transparent on this issue as well.

Many start the game, see a CP 800 players and they are lvl40 CP0 and are like f this take me 2 years to catch up to that boy. Very off putting.

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Marketing is one thing. Giving your work away for free is another, your just devaluing yourself doing that. This is a desperate move to try and capitalise on the situations Z0$ has tried to Engineer over the last 3 years.

They Engineered the situation where they buffed CP140 sets, added new sets to the game, new items to the game, new furniture to the game, didn't address a lot of items that don't stack all in a drive to force people into subbing for the craft bag for any kind of play ability. Additionally with the poor RNG players feeel inclined to save that sharpened weapon, or divines armors in case the game gets another overhaul and it makes that set viable again or you dont want to spend weeks re-farming a set.

Z0$ know most who play a decent amount of time have subbed. Simply for the quality of life not to squander hours in moving *** around backpacks. So instead of tempting you with banners and implying on the QoL, they now force it onto you free and hope to benefit of some players who fall into the Engineered situation we have today.

I honestly think they will lose more players doing this. As giving someone the craft bag to try out, then forcing them back to no craft bag, will be very detrimental and i personally think it will drive more away from the game than push into Z0$ pockets.

Personofsecrets · July 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

A marketing drive doesn't mean they're losing players. According to this, they aren't losing any players:
http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
A few people vocally rage-quitting on Youtube, or on this forum, doesn't translate into any significant number of people quitting. It was probably balanced out by the numbers of people who returned to the game because they wanted to play Morrowind.
Now, if the Steam charts did show that people were leaving in droves, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't.

@SydneyGrey ,

Thank you for the link to steamcharts. What do you think happened during November to drive player growth over steam?

I did a quick google search, but nothing really stood out to me.

T1y4hoon · July 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

A marketing drive doesn't mean they're losing players. According to this, they aren't losing any players:
http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
A few people vocally rage-quitting on Youtube, or on this forum, doesn't translate into any significant number of people quitting. It was probably balanced out by the numbers of people who returned to the game because they wanted to play Morrowind.
Now, if the Steam charts did show that people were leaving in droves, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't.

Wow look at that increase from October 2016 to November 2016. Thats crazy. Game must have been on sale.

Anhedonie · July 2017

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Anhedonie , what qualities of summer time may cause some people to leave?

Reverb wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Anhedonie , what qualities of summer time may cause some people to leave?

Real life.

Yep, pretty much this.

Personofsecrets · July 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Gods forbid they should market their product. Must be the end of the world!

Also where was there any evidence of such a "management shakeup"?

All things during the content drought pre-IC looked like all hands on deck to make the console release happen.

Here is the evidence that you requested.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-sage-b7b3a41/

There were some other folks who also left, but I can't remember their names.

Personofsecrets · July 2017

MarbleQuiche wrote: »

jordthesantaman wrote: »

ESO may be losing players, but don't panic, players always come back or new players come in. I, for one, left for round about a year but I came back because its a fun game.

Players come back for new content. I'm only one opinion/perception, but it appears that long-standing players left when Morrowind came, old players didn't return and we got a splattering of completely new players.

Hopefully this is a two-staged approach. Grab some subs from new players, put a long term plan in place to retain existing players.

Morrowind was disappointing. Another content release that existing players don't even bother with could be devastating. They've played their ace with Morrowind and it wasn't a winning hand.

Morrowind does feel pretty empty content wise. I feel like I could have done Cradle of Shadows another couple hundred of times and achieved more enjoyment.

Personofsecrets · July 2017

I wonder if the marketing is to help limit another March style down tick.

SydneyGrey · July 2017

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Thank you for the link to steamcharts. What do you think happened during November to drive player growth over steam?
I did a quick google search, but nothing really stood out to me.

I believe that's when they stopped making subscriptions mandatory, wasn't it? That was the time I started playing, because I saw they didn't have mandatory subscriptions any more, so I was one of those people who joined the game at that time. I don't know the exact month they stopped the mandatory subscriptions, though.

Personofsecrets · July 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Thank you for the link to steamcharts. What do you think happened during November to drive player growth over steam?
I did a quick google search, but nothing really stood out to me.

I believe that's when they stopped making subscriptions mandatory, wasn't it? That was the time I started playing, because I saw they didn't have mandatory subscriptions any more, so I was one of those people who joined the game at that time. I don't know the exact month they stopped the mandatory subscriptions, though.

Based on some really fast searching, I think that the game went free to play around the time of March 2015.

That is a long time before the November up tick.

kargen27 · July 2017

duckrustlerb16_ESO wrote: »

Its enough to encourage me to pop back into the game for the week if not a month, but how long I actually stay logging in depends on how long it takes them to finally put Morrowind in the crown store which will encourage me to buy ESO+ to get the crowns to buy it.

Probably not going to happen. The agreement says ESO+ members have free access to all new content offered in the crown store. Morrowind wasn't offered in the crown store so many ESO+ members purchased the content. They are not going to be happy if suddenly it becomes available in crown store.

JackDaniell · July 2017

As a 3 year vet who played beta,

Zenimax doest not seem to care much about player retention. Just look at the biggest thread on the forums, a post outlining literally THOUSANDS of in-game bugs some of which have existed since launch.

This game bleeds veteran players. We get tired of the consistently poor server performance, lag spikes, disconnects, never ending loading screens, gap closing into a loading screen, poor PvP ballance based on RNG procs (lol), and ZENIMAX just doesn't seem interested in tackling any of these problems.

Thier agenda is simple, only do things that result is quick monetary gains. So they pump out new unfinished content full of bugs then charge us an obscene price to beta test it. These patches almost always break something in game and IF it gets fixed it's months later. Then we have the lore breaking crown store garbage that is also obscenely priced and slowly becoming more and more pay to win. No bugs in that crown store tho....

So events like these fall into that money grab category. They essentialy are dangling hints in front of people to get then to pay a monthly fee, you don't know what your missing till you try it.

I love his game but holy hell are things going downhill fast for ESO.

Personofsecrets · July 2017

JackDaniell wrote: »

As a 3 year vet who played beta,

Zenimax doest not seem to care much about player retention. Just look at the biggest thread on the forums, a post outlining literally THOUSANDS of in-game bugs some of which have existed since launch.

This game bleeds veteran players. We get tired of the consistently poor server performance, lag spikes, disconnects, never ending loading screens, gap closing into a loading screen, poor PvP ballance based on RNG procs (lol), and ZENIMAX just doesn't seem interested in tackling any of these problems.

Thier agenda is simple, only do things that result is quick monetary gains. So they pump out new unfinished content full of bugs then charge us an obscene price to beta test it. These patches almost always break something in game and IF it gets fixed it's months later. Then we have the lore breaking crown store garbage that is also obscenely priced and slowly becoming more and more pay to win. No bugs in that crown store tho....

So events like these fall into that money grab category. They essentialy are dangling hints in front of people to get then to pay a monthly fee, you don't know what your missing till you try it.

I love his game but holy hell are things going downhill fast for ESO.

Hello @JackDaniell ,

I may agree with you on some of these ideas.

Could you elaborate on how some of the sloppy patches and balance updates (nerfs) are consistent with the idea that Zenimax strategy is to capitalize on short term gains wherever possible?

I'll just play devils advocate by presupposing that many balance updates do the opposite of causing quick and dirty sales as those balance updates cause players to become frustrated, leave, and not spend money on the short term.

Thank you for writing.

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2017

I think this event has been planned for a very long time actually. The Dwarven Box thing might be something new though but I doubt they do anything when it involves money on the fly. I can see where the injection of Dwarf boxes might be a means of trying to turn more of us into gamblers. Think of it this way, its like your local crack dealer offering you free rocks. Apparently not enough people opted in on the notion in their view and they'd like to get more. I'm personally rather disappointed with the whole random loot box thing in my Elder Scrolls. I know its common in mmo's but to be fair it was a large part of what ruined Star Trek Online. I really wish they'd get over it. I'd like to point out that on STO before the loot box thing came around I had owned almost everything in their store. The STO version of Crown Crates were better though because at least players could earn those items with in game money. I just personally got tired of the overinflated prices and unbalancing garbage it put in the game. I am greatly hopeful this never happens in ESO. STO was going to be my last MMO - a statement I would often said to my friends. The only caveat I gave was that I would play a Fallout or Elder Scrolls mmo if they were released, and ultimately it was. These Gamble-items though definitely have a sour taste to me and perhaps that's the issue. Is it possible that not enough people are opting into purchasing Gamble-boxes because of past irritation with previous games? I think that would be an interesting statistic.

kargen27 · July 2017

"We get tired of the consistently poor server performance, lag spikes, disconnects, never ending loading screens, gap closing into a loading screen, poor PvP ballance based on RNG procs (lol), and ZENIMAX just doesn't seem interested in tackling any of these problems."

These issues would be even more detrimental to attracting new players or tempting them into spending more on the game. Being new to the game they would not be so attached and much more likely to move on.

What in the crown store is play to win?

idk · July 2017

It is normal for game to promote. Very normal and considering the dual B2P/Sub model ESO has it also makes sense they would do more to promote the subscription, especially considering they recently added up to 240 bank slots for subscribers.

Every game loses players every month. The promotion does not indicate Zos lost more or less than they normally do and certainly does not mean the promotion is related to anything directly. Normal promotion.

JackDaniell · July 2017

Personofsecrets wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

As a 3 year vet who played beta,

Zenimax doest not seem to care much about player retention. Just look at the biggest thread on the forums, a post outlining literally THOUSANDS of in-game bugs some of which have existed since launch.

This game bleeds veteran players. We get tired of the consistently poor server performance, lag spikes, disconnects, never ending loading screens, gap closing into a loading screen, poor PvP ballance based on RNG procs (lol), and ZENIMAX just doesn't seem interested in tackling any of these problems.

Thier agenda is simple, only do things that result is quick monetary gains. So they pump out new unfinished content full of bugs then charge us an obscene price to beta test it. These patches almost always break something in game and IF it gets fixed it's months later. Then we have the lore breaking crown store garbage that is also obscenely priced and slowly becoming more and more pay to win. No bugs in that crown store tho....

So events like these fall into that money grab category. They essentialy are dangling hints in front of people to get then to pay a monthly fee, you don't know what your missing till you try it.

I love his game but holy hell are things going downhill fast for ESO.

Hello @JackDaniell ,

I may agree with you on some of these ideas.

Could you elaborate on how some of the sloppy patches and balance updates (nerfs) are consistent with the idea that Zenimax strategy is to capitalize on short term gains wherever possible?

I'll just play devils advocate by presupposing that many balance updates do the opposite of causing quick and dirty sales as those balance updates cause players to become frustrated, leave, and not spend money on the short term.

Thank you for writing.

Proc sets are my main example of this. They are essentialy sets for new players, with RNG burst mechanics for pvp. This allows inexperienced players to win fights they would normally loose by chance, thus making pvp a more casual experience. Procs are also stupidly op atm compared to the skill based alternatives promoting more players to jump on the casual bus.

Any change in gameplay to casual experience is a shift designed to attract new players into it while seriously alienating older players from the game they knew. In short a move to make money while not caring about the overall health and ballance of the game.

As for patches in general, they just aren't finished products. ZENIMAX does not take the time to properly bug fix and test them, and releases them anyway so they make thier quarterly gains. Any bugs they introduce take months to get fixed IF they even get fixed.

We have never had a patch dedicated to bug fixes, we don't get enough to regular bug fixes either. When players bring these to the attention of ZENIMAX we just get ignored.

I honestly don't understand this business model and it just seems like a way to bleed a game for all the money it's worth before it dies.

Sorry I sound like such a salty vet, but that's the most common flavor we come in for eso.

Stovahkiin · July 2017

It's probably, at least in part, an attempt to get more people hooked on crown crates. As well as getting more people to sub of course.

Loralai_907 · July 2017

If I were at a point where I was ready to leave, a free sub for a couple of days or a couple of free crown crates would not be what changed my mind. So no, I don't think this next "event" is about stopping players from leaving.

Zer0oo · July 2017

The goal is probably to get as many new player as possible to subscribe. If player subscribe it is just easier for a company to calculate the income.
I don't think they lost players in total since they gained probably alot of new player and lost alot of long-term players(just assuming that because of the mess with bg, balance and bugs), therefore the marketing with the subscribe.

Mojmir · July 2017

It is and it's quite lazy,relying on your marketing team to keep the game afloat.

Remag_Div · July 2017

Gets more people to buy loot crates with cash.

Getting 5 for free is nice, but it goes down a dark path of buying just 1 more to see if you get that mount or enough gems to convert...

I'm just cynical though, it's probably as simply as ZOS being nice. lol

MarbleQuiche · July 2017

T1y4hoon wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

A marketing drive doesn't mean they're losing players. According to this, they aren't losing any players:
http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
A few people vocally rage-quitting on Youtube, or on this forum, doesn't translate into any significant number of people quitting. It was probably balanced out by the numbers of people who returned to the game because they wanted to play Morrowind.
Now, if the Steam charts did show that people were leaving in droves, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't.

Wow look at that increase from October 2016 to November 2016. Thats crazy. Game must have been on sale.

Gold Edition released in Sep. I believe it was on sale in Nov.

ixie · July 2017

Does the game now include some free ESO+ when you buy? I've played since launch, so no idea what it comes with now.

Remag_Div · July 2017

I kinda wish ZOS could release the playercount for all 3 versions. Not games sold, like active unique daily players who have logged into the game the past month or something to get an average.

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

I imagine a lot of people cancelled their subs after Morrowind. I know I did. If your sub no longer covers all DLC, it loses a lot of its value

Balgost · July 2017

T1y4hoon wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

A marketing drive doesn't mean they're losing players. According to this, they aren't losing any players:
http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
A few people vocally rage-quitting on Youtube, or on this forum, doesn't translate into any significant number of people quitting. It was probably balanced out by the numbers of people who returned to the game because they wanted to play Morrowind.
Now, if the Steam charts did show that people were leaving in droves, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't.

Wow look at that increase from October 2016 to November 2016. Thats crazy. Game must have been on sale.

The first ever "free to play weekend" in Nov followed by a very nice sale price was what got me to try the game again (and stick around) and I'm sure many others.

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/11/15/eso-free-play-weekend--playstation-4-and-pcmac

Mazbt · July 2017

imo they really shot themselvs in the foot when they didn't give eso plus members morrowind. So getting access to it while you are subscribed including new trial and battleground.I bought it, I'm still subbed, but I am disappointed.

zyk · July 2017

Is the Goal of the Next Event to Stop Player Loss?

Well, of course. It's obviously a promotion to mitigate churn. But it's probably not a knee-jerk reaction in response to poor sales or representative of other negative things.

This is a lull period for games because they have to compete with summer weather and events. Further, they probably want to sell the value of ESO Plus to new and returning Morrowind players.

Not that I like the MMO I play managed like a cable/telephone company, but that's where we are in the "evolution" of gaming. This is probably the last Zenimax product I pay for. The IP used to feel sacred to Bethesda, but now they're just milking it.

KingMagaw · July 2017

Remag_Div wrote: »

I kinda wish ZOS could release the playercount for all 3 versions. Not games sold, like active unique daily players who have logged into the game the past month or something to get an average.

Z0$ are actively not being transparent when it comes to player activity. Why wouldn't a company let the players know this data?

Its to shield and muddy the water so when a game does go downhill, its takes longer for people to notice.

If anyones stance is: This is a growing game, then why did Z0$ permanently close x3 PvP Campaigns and force players into 1hr+ queues wasting time and money. Azura and True flame PC EU were almost always pop-locked during peak times that i seen, so closing x3 servers with no solutions in place was incompetent behaviour.

Bought IC DLC? Now queue ~1hr to play after you pay. How does that ever sound good to anyone.

I believe the reason those servers were closed was it was a better read on activity and 3 campaigns showing 1 bar is never a good selling point but they were used as over flow and IC traffic.

Asardes · July 2017

Well I play for almost 2 years yet I have yet to buy anything but DLCs and character slots, with crowns from discounted packs. I haven't subbed and probably never will since none of the benefits is really worth it: I'm well past CP cap, have everything researched and I can manage my inventory just fine without extra bank space or craft bag.