http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/the-first-hybrid-sorcerer-dps-for-pve-content/

The build information is obviously outdated but it should serve as a strong base for your personal expansion. End-game hybrids are a black hole of funds, time and testing man. But sooner or later it'll all click and you'll be able to rock some socks with it

vMA and PvP can be very do-it-yourself experiences. Isolated, having access to more tools at the cost of damage can be just fine as long as you take the right tools with you. Hybrids in these situations can get a very nice spread of effects to bounce off of for a relatively consistent upkeep on a variety of damage and utility spells.

Recommended:
Crafted: Pelinal's, Shackle-Breaker, TBS, Morkuldin(specifically if Necropotence is chosen), Clever Alchemist
Dungeons: I don't really care for the 'hybrid' (undaunted weaver, specifically) sets from dungeons, maybe if choosing a normally stam/mag set you could pull something from here
Monster Helms: If you insist, pick something with an elemental damage that fits your class buffs
Overworld: Veiled Heritance (heavy armor, but the proc works off any damage dealt), Way of Fire / Red Mountain (split cps, buffed fire damage), Bloodthorn (double sustain buff), Necropotence (lots of magicka, with NB Sorc or w/ Morkuldin), Swamp Raider (Good with sDK morphs or some bow spells), Bahraha / Syvarra (hybrid stats, added poison damage, and some healing! Also the motifs are nice), Briarheart (procs off any damage type, to start the buff and to heal with it active)
PvP: Affliction (procs off any damage type, hybrid stats), Black Rose (Heavy armor again, but it's beefy and mixed stats)
Not including Arena/Weapon sets because I don't suspect you need my help if these are things you're going to scoop into your build.

I don't think aiming for recovery %s is going to help you perform, as you'll have less of either to buff from split sets and food/drink buffs. It also doesn't buff your damage or healing, or anything else scaling wise. I think you can go with any class, just play off strengths you can find for stam and mag builds for them. For instance, you can proc AoE and Singletarget effects with the mag morph of jabs for a templar, keeping the healing effect and opening up what sets you might use off it.

I'm not going to advocate for hybrid DD builds in veteran trials. Everything else is fair game, just... don't act all shocked if groupmates don't like it when they watch their medium armor nightblade barswap to a destruction staff.

Dantaria wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The simple fact is (and this may hurt your itty bitty internet ESO ego), you do not need all star DPS to complete anything in the game. VMOL clears were completed with DPS averaging LESS than 30k DPS. The worse you are the higher DPS you need - but there is a minimum threshold.

You're a bad player evidenced by your inability to provide any tangible information to help OP, get carried by builds and gear, have no understanding on the subject you are commenting on (hybrids), don't know the appropriate mathematical information required to backup your numerical claims (which you could have asked for), have no competence as a build crafter and should probably just exit this thread permanantly.

Well, aren't you nice o___O

There is a minimum threshold, yes. And this threshold is honestly lower than numbers people usually ask for, because people prefer to play it safe. Can 8 x 20k group complete vMoL? Theoretically yes. Will they and how long will it take? Another question entirely.

The question isn't whether you completed vMoL or not. The question is - would you complete it if other 7 DDs were pulling the same numbers you did. And how long did it take you.

In the end of the day you take 8 x 30k experienced guys with good brains and knowledge of the game mechanics and finish vMoL for 1-2 weeks. Actually, if they are really good and RL is experienced, you can make it in one session, though it will be the long one

Or you can operate on "minimum threshold" without any room for mistake whatsoever when you make the team. And be stuck there for month(s). Well, breaking news - noone wants that

Also, I know my math, thank you very much. ~220k group DPS - comfortable DPS for finishing vMoL. ~180-190k - minimum threshold where things get messy and ugly. Can you do it? Yes. Would that be comfortable? Hell no.

Of course people want things to be easier in the game. Of course. It's natural. So they prefer to avoid clearly suboptimal strategies. Which hurts your ego, I suppose, seeing how quickly you lash out and judge others without having nearly enough information about them.

You have to understand that some folk aren't here to be the number 1 leaderboard spot. If all twelve are guildies, and know exactly what they're in for, they may not exactly care that they are at minimum threshold.

Example: back when VR was still the level system, I joined an RP guild. The leader asked me to help them with pledges, so I said "sure thing man." We had a hybrid NB dps, a sorc healer (not using matriarch), a mag NB dps, and me as a stamina templar tank. Enter vet elden hollow (back then, story II wasn't a thing, it was reg or vet.)

"We're going for gold, baby!"

An hour and a half later we were at bogden. You'd think that we might be upset at a 20 minute run taking 4.5 times that, no? You'd be wrong

The whole party was having a blast. Every single trash pull was a victory. When we wiped on Boden the first time, no one got upset or quit. We talked it out, decided on a strategy, and nailed it on take two (we came close, last surviving was the tank and I could only res the magblade before I had to turtle up). Group dps was maybe like...15k? MAYBE 20k? There wasn't any room for all the fire, I remember that much xD

For at least a week after, that group was still talking about what a blast they had on that run, but nowadays it'd be a "nightmare pug." I perfectly understand some folks have limited time or patience, but there are plenty like the OP, like me, and like possibly thousands of others that wouldn't mind playing against vMoL for months if they even thought they could clear it.

If you're not into that, it's fine! Just like how some folk aren't going to want to join a group that laughs at their hybrid (that can totally push through, just not with that admittedly lovely 14k extra dps). Some people are just casuals, and there's nothing wrong with that.

@Dantaria

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Anyone know of how to check DPS in a dungeon on console? I want to show a screen of my use of frost fire with mine.

@PS4_ZeColmeia Do you have, or know anyone who has a target skeleton?

Tecorsuh wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The simple fact is (and this may hurt your itty bitty internet ESO ego), you do not need all star DPS to complete anything in the game. VMOL clears were completed with DPS averaging LESS than 30k DPS. The worse you are the higher DPS you need - but there is a minimum threshold.

You're a bad player evidenced by your inability to provide any tangible information to help OP, get carried by builds and gear, have no understanding on the subject you are commenting on (hybrids), don't know the appropriate mathematical information required to backup your numerical claims (which you could have asked for), have no competence as a build crafter and should probably just exit this thread permanantly.

Well, aren't you nice o___O

There is a minimum threshold, yes. And this threshold is honestly lower than numbers people usually ask for, because people prefer to play it safe. Can 8 x 20k group complete vMoL? Theoretically yes. Will they and how long will it take? Another question entirely.

The question isn't whether you completed vMoL or not. The question is - would you complete it if other 7 DDs were pulling the same numbers you did. And how long did it take you.

In the end of the day you take 8 x 30k experienced guys with good brains and knowledge of the game mechanics and finish vMoL for 1-2 weeks. Actually, if they are really good and RL is experienced, you can make it in one session, though it will be the long one

Or you can operate on "minimum threshold" without any room for mistake whatsoever when you make the team. And be stuck there for month(s). Well, breaking news - noone wants that

Also, I know my math, thank you very much. ~220k group DPS - comfortable DPS for finishing vMoL. ~180-190k - minimum threshold where things get messy and ugly. Can you do it? Yes. Would that be comfortable? Hell no.

Of course people want things to be easier in the game. Of course. It's natural. So they prefer to avoid clearly suboptimal strategies. Which hurts your ego, I suppose, seeing how quickly you lash out and judge others without having nearly enough information about them.

You have to understand that some folk aren't here to be the number 1 leaderboard spot. If all twelve are guildies, and know exactly what they're in for, they may not exactly care that they are at minimum threshold.

Example: back when VR was still the level system, I joined an RP guild. The leader asked me to help them with pledges, so I said "sure thing man." We had a hybrid NB dps, a sorc healer (not using matriarch), a mag NB dps, and me as a stamina templar tank. Enter vet elden hollow (back then, story II wasn't a thing, it was registered or vet.)

"We're going for gold, baby!"

An hour and a half later we were at bogden. You'd think that we might be upset at a 20 minute run taking 4.5 times that, no? You'd be wrong

The whole party was having a blast. Every single trash pull was a victory. When we wiped on Boden the first time, no one got upset or quit. We talked it out, decided on a strategy, and nailed it on take two (we came close, last surviving was the tank and I could only res the magblade before I had to turtle up). Group dps was maybe like...15k? MAYBE 20k? There wasn't any room for all the fire, I remember that much xD

For at least a week after, that group was still talking about what a blast they had on that run, but nowadays it'd be a "nightmare pug." I perfectly indersgand some folks have limited time or patience, but there are plenty like the OP, like me, and like possibly thousands of others that wouldn't mind playing against vMoL for months if they even thought they could clear it.

If you're not into that, it's fine! Just like how some folk aren't going to want to join a group that laughs at their hybrid (that can totally push through, just not with that admittedly lovely 14k extra dps). Some people are just casuals, and there's nothing wrong with that.

@Dantaria

But there is a difference between running a Dungeon vs a Trial. Most dungeons don't have a dps check mechanic where something is going to enrage and wipe the group if you don't have enough dps. Most Trials do. In (almost?) every Trial the final boss enrages and starts dealing massive damage to the party, and needs to be executed quickly or the party will wipe. In AA the next to last boss has adds, and the more adds that are left up, the more damage the boss is going to deal to the group. There is a boss in MoL that deals massive damage unless you're hiding behind a pillar, and the pillars disappear throughout the fight, eventually leaving no pillars and a wiped group. in HoF, I assume the spider boss will wipe the group if he makes it all the way around(i've never even seen him make it halfway around before). Also in HoF, there is a boss that requires dps to split off to deal with adds, if they aren't dealt with in a timely manner the group wipes. In SO, on the first boss, 4 members of the group have to split off to kill a secondary boss, if they can't kill it quick enough both bosses enrage and wipe the party. There are probably others that I'm probably forgetting.

In dungeons you have what? Bloodspawn in SC2, The Flesh Atronachs in ICP, Grobull in DS2, Rilis in BC2, Valkyn Skoria in CoA2, Nerien'eth in CoH2, and I think that is it. Most of these can be cheesed with a good healer/tank, can res through, endure(heal/shield) through, or ignore completely. The one you can't ignore and will kill you if your dps is lacking is Bloodspawn. But the group dps required for that one is low anyways, around 25~30k dps. Granted, any dungeon with low dps will take a long time, but they are all possible. Except for Bloodspawn, but if you can't deal more than 12k dps you shouldn't be in vet dungeons anyways.

But anyways, what do people mean when they are talking about hybrid builds? Split between the types of damage they deal? Split between roles? Split between resources only? All of the above? Some of the above? None of the above?

1) If it is split between types of damage, why would you do that? Seems to me that you're going to make both damage types deal lower damage, and bring your overall damage down with it. I realize that Pelinal is a thing, but aren't you really just stacking one damage type and having Pelinal on to make the other damage type the same? In effect actually making both types suffer because you have to split your pools to effectively use both types of damage? Then there is the aspect of resource management for both pools,

2) If it is split between roles, why would you do that? I can see it working in a dungeon if the tank or healer is able to deal some damage, but you will sacrifice functionality of one or more of the roles you intend to play. E.g. The more damage you try to deal the more your tanking is going to suffer, or the more you try to heal the more your damage is going to suffer. Each role is a full time thing, so the more time you spend doing something other than your role, the more your role is going to suffer.

3) If it is split between just resources, why would you do that? The size of your resource pool contributes to the amount of damage you're able to deal. So, the more you split away from your main resource pool, the less your potential damage output is. You might be able to get more a little utility out of the 1-2 skills that use that resource. So say you mainly use Stamina skills, but you have 1 or 2 magicka skills. Are you really going to be using those magicka skills so much that it would require lessening your stamina pool? You don't need to spam buffs, so there is time for the resource to regenerate. If your spamming a damage skill, why? It's not going to be dealing as much damage as a skill of the same damage type that you're using.(see point 1)

1) Hybrids are always going to do less damage, and they HAVE TO. If there was no advantage for focusing stamina damage wise, the sheer utility of a hybrid would be the meta. Pelinal's means on my dual wield bar, my liquid lightning and wall of shock are benefitting from 3.7-4k spell damage. The set doesn't split anything- you stack tons of weapon damage, and get a bunch of "free" spell damage

2) Splitting roles is not advised unless in VERY certain circumstances, or if your group is built for it. Heal tanks are awesome in dungeons, but I doubt so great in trials. Some hybrid builds do this, like tank DPS pulling some 15k while tanking (think blazing shield templars). Hats off to those folks.

3) The reason you split your pools is because you can still achieve decent sized pools with purple food and triglyphs. My Pelinal's sorc had 20k health (literally COULDN'T lower it ), and 26k mag and stam. The benefit is having access to any skill in the game, and using the strengths of both sides to off put a lack of raw damage. Stam Sorcerors with 14k wards would be broken, wouldn't they?

I am aware of the difference between a trial and a dungeon. The discussion I was referenin was a party saying you COULD get through a trial, specifically vet MoL, with hybrids, but why would you because you could do it easier or faster without them?

The answer to why make a hybrid? It is fun, and if it works, why question that? If you don't want a hybrid in your group, no hard feelings! Some players want to have fun, and hybrids are more their playstyle. If you can (and we proved you can mathematically) run vMoL with hybrid dps, then the only reason not to is because it's not fast enough or effecient enough for you .

And again, that's fine if you don't want a hybrid in your group. They'll get their complete with their friends

@DocFrost72 You can do whatever you desire in a group of friends. In fact, you can do whatever you desire in most of the content in this game.

If someone comes to the forums asking for build advice, why would our base assumption be that they have a guild/group of friends who will compose their running group that are all happy with knowingly taking along a gimped DD. Or that the person asking for advice even has such a group, wouldn't they theory craft amongst themselves?

It's just a totally irrelevant comparison. Being a random DD in a vTrial versus being one of a group of four friends in a vDungeon are just not similar whatsoever. It's more demanding damage-wise, the social pressure is higher (in number, and amount), and it's already going to take a while which people will not want artificially inflated by an unoptimized build. In this game, you do not need an off-tank off-heal off-dps player(s) in the group, you can certainly play like that in lower pressure environments, but it's unnecessary and is simply outperformed by a purist character of one role.

And again, it would be a 'nightmare pug' to people who randomly queue in expecting their DDs to deal damage, their tank to hold aggro, and their healer to heal and then encounter people who not only do not do these things, but become upset when questioned about what they are doing. Most of the time weak performance isn't noteworthy until communications come into play. "I tried asking the X something and it seemed like they just had chat off" "I asked the X to Y and they laughed at me" "We wiped so I suggested we Y and was lashed out at for 'judging' someone's build" are 'nightmare pug' creators.

Just as a quick question: What are people's unbuffed spell damage as a magicka base? I just did a quick switch to ice furnace for a trial this morning and want to see how my staff build looks. I'm just over 3k with my staff equipped, unbuffed vs 3.4k DW.

Hello! I have played around allot with hybrid builds, and they aren't as bad as players seam to think. No they don't pull as much dps as a pure mag or Stam build buT they can get close (only missing about 15% DPS).

My hybrid experience is mostly in PvP, here is a detailed rundown of the latest hybrid I have published.

https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

Here is another video that outlines a few of my favorite ways to build a hybrid, it goes through 4 different gear get ups you so you have option no matter your class (yes some hybrid builds are more effective for certain classes then others).

https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

I have detailed build guides for a Nightblade hybrid DOT build, a sorc hybrid and Templar hybrid as well on the channel if you guys are looking for more resources.

@JackDaniell thanks for this! Will definitely check it out.

Fettkeewl wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

This is my Pelinal build. What you can't see is the 10%+ 4k physical pen and almost 12k spell pen. I can give you some pointers if you like the setup.

How on earth did you get those numbers?!?! Can you pm me your setup?

Pretty simple, pelinals + spinners + Molag head + troll king shoulders (want divine shoulders). DW with sword and mace.

I need to find someone on PS4 with a few target dummies in close proximity to each other so I can show off the beauty of ice furnace. I want to do a quick video showing that setup. The numbers are not as high on the character sheet, but omfg the damage is insane when doing damage to a group.

Otherwise it'll take me a few weeks to get enough vouchers for the dummy.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Tecorsuh wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The simple fact is (and this may hurt your itty bitty internet ESO ego), you do not need all star DPS to complete anything in the game. VMOL clears were completed with DPS averaging LESS than 30k DPS. The worse you are the higher DPS you need - but there is a minimum threshold.

You're a bad player evidenced by your inability to provide any tangible information to help OP, get carried by builds and gear, have no understanding on the subject you are commenting on (hybrids), don't know the appropriate mathematical information required to backup your numerical claims (which you could have asked for), have no competence as a build crafter and should probably just exit this thread permanantly.

Well, aren't you nice o___O

There is a minimum threshold, yes. And this threshold is honestly lower than numbers people usually ask for, because people prefer to play it safe. Can 8 x 20k group complete vMoL? Theoretically yes. Will they and how long will it take? Another question entirely.

The question isn't whether you completed vMoL or not. The question is - would you complete it if other 7 DDs were pulling the same numbers you did. And how long did it take you.

In the end of the day you take 8 x 30k experienced guys with good brains and knowledge of the game mechanics and finish vMoL for 1-2 weeks. Actually, if they are really good and RL is experienced, you can make it in one session, though it will be the long one

Or you can operate on "minimum threshold" without any room for mistake whatsoever when you make the team. And be stuck there for month(s). Well, breaking news - noone wants that

Also, I know my math, thank you very much. ~220k group DPS - comfortable DPS for finishing vMoL. ~180-190k - minimum threshold where things get messy and ugly. Can you do it? Yes. Would that be comfortable? Hell no.

Of course people want things to be easier in the game. Of course. It's natural. So they prefer to avoid clearly suboptimal strategies. Which hurts your ego, I suppose, seeing how quickly you lash out and judge others without having nearly enough information about them.

You have to understand that some folk aren't here to be the number 1 leaderboard spot. If all twelve are guildies, and know exactly what they're in for, they may not exactly care that they are at minimum threshold.

Example: back when VR was still the level system, I joined an RP guild. The leader asked me to help them with pledges, so I said "sure thing man." We had a hybrid NB dps, a sorc healer (not using matriarch), a mag NB dps, and me as a stamina templar tank. Enter vet elden hollow (back then, story II wasn't a thing, it was registered or vet.)

"We're going for gold, baby!"

An hour and a half later we were at bogden. You'd think that we might be upset at a 20 minute run taking 4.5 times that, no? You'd be wrong

The whole party was having a blast. Every single trash pull was a victory. When we wiped on Boden the first time, no one got upset or quit. We talked it out, decided on a strategy, and nailed it on take two (we came close, last surviving was the tank and I could only res the magblade before I had to turtle up). Group dps was maybe like...15k? MAYBE 20k? There wasn't any room for all the fire, I remember that much xD

For at least a week after, that group was still talking about what a blast they had on that run, but nowadays it'd be a "nightmare pug." I perfectly indersgand some folks have limited time or patience, but there are plenty like the OP, like me, and like possibly thousands of others that wouldn't mind playing against vMoL for months if they even thought they could clear it.

If you're not into that, it's fine! Just like how some folk aren't going to want to join a group that laughs at their hybrid (that can totally push through, just not with that admittedly lovely 14k extra dps). Some people are just casuals, and there's nothing wrong with that.

@Dantaria

But there is a difference between running a Dungeon vs a Trial. Most dungeons don't have a dps check mechanic where something is going to enrage and wipe the group if you don't have enough dps. Most Trials do. In (almost?) every Trial the final boss enrages and starts dealing massive damage to the party, and needs to be executed quickly or the party will wipe. In AA the next to last boss has adds, and the more adds that are left up, the more damage the boss is going to deal to the group. There is a boss in MoL that deals massive damage unless you're hiding behind a pillar, and the pillars disappear throughout the fight, eventually leaving no pillars and a wiped group. in HoF, I assume the spider boss will wipe the group if he makes it all the way around(i've never even seen him make it halfway around before). Also in HoF, there is a boss that requires dps to split off to deal with adds, if they aren't dealt with in a timely manner the group wipes. In SO, on the first boss, 4 members of the group have to split off to kill a secondary boss, if they can't kill it quick enough both bosses enrage and wipe the party. There are probably others that I'm probably forgetting.

In dungeons you have what? Bloodspawn in SC2, The Flesh Atronachs in ICP, Grobull in DS2, Rilis in BC2, Valkyn Skoria in CoA2, Nerien'eth in CoH2, and I think that is it. Most of these can be cheesed with a good healer/tank, can res through, endure(heal/shield) through, or ignore completely. The one you can't ignore and will kill you if your dps is lacking is Bloodspawn. But the group dps required for that one is low anyways, around 25~30k dps. Granted, any dungeon with low dps will take a long time, but they are all possible. Except for Bloodspawn, but if you can't deal more than 12k dps you shouldn't be in vet dungeons anyways.

But anyways, what do people mean when they are talking about hybrid builds? Split between the types of damage they deal? Split between roles? Split between resources only? All of the above? Some of the above? None of the above?

1) If it is split between types of damage, why would you do that? Seems to me that you're going to make both damage types deal lower damage, and bring your overall damage down with it. I realize that Pelinal is a thing, but aren't you really just stacking one damage type and having Pelinal on to make the other damage type the same? In effect actually making both types suffer because you have to split your pools to effectively use both types of damage? Then there is the aspect of resource management for both pools,

2) If it is split between roles, why would you do that? I can see it working in a dungeon if the tank or healer is able to deal some damage, but you will sacrifice functionality of one or more of the roles you intend to play. E.g. The more damage you try to deal the more your tanking is going to suffer, or the more you try to heal the more your damage is going to suffer. Each role is a full time thing, so the more time you spend doing something other than your role, the more your role is going to suffer.

3) If it is split between just resources, why would you do that? The size of your resource pool contributes to the amount of damage you're able to deal. So, the more you split away from your main resource pool, the less your potential damage output is. You might be able to get more a little utility out of the 1-2 skills that use that resource. So say you mainly use Stamina skills, but you have 1 or 2 magicka skills. Are you really going to be using those magicka skills so much that it would require lessening your stamina pool? You don't need to spam buffs, so there is time for the resource to regenerate. If your spamming a damage skill, why? It's not going to be dealing as much damage as a skill of the same damage type that you're using.(see point 1)

1) Hybrids are always going to do less damage, and they HAVE TO. If there was no advantage for focusing stamina damage wise, the sheer utility of a hybrid would be the meta. Pelinal's means on my dual wield bar, my liquid lightning and wall of shock are benefitting from 3.7-4k spell damage. The set doesn't split anything- you stack tons of weapon damage, and get a bunch of "free" spell damage

2) Splitting roles is not advised unless in VERY certain circumstances, or if your group is built for it. Heal tanks are awesome in dungeons, but I doubt so great in trials. Some hybrid builds do this, like tank DPS pulling some 15k while tanking (think blazing shield templars). Hats off to those folks.

3) The reason you split your pools is because you can still achieve decent sized pools with purple food and triglyphs. My Pelinal's sorc had 20k health (literally COULDN'T lower it ), and 26k mag and stam. The benefit is having access to any skill in the game, and using the strengths of both sides to off put a lack of raw damage. Stam Sorcerors with 14k wards would be broken, wouldn't they?

I am aware of the difference between a trial and a dungeon. The discussion I was referenin was a party saying you COULD get through a trial, specifically vet MoL, with hybrids, but why would you because you could do it easier or faster without them?

The answer to why make a hybrid? It is fun, and if it works, why question that? If you don't want a hybrid in your group, no hard feelings! Some players want to have fun, and hybrids are more their playstyle. If you can (and we proved you can mathematically) run vMoL with hybrid dps, then the only reason not to is because it's not fast enough or effecient enough for you .

And again, that's fine if you don't want a hybrid in your group. They'll get their complete with their friends

1) That's my point exactly, if you're already stacking stamina and weapon damage/crit, why not use caltrops and volley? Those would benefit more from your weapon crit than liquid lightning and blockade, plus you could stack more into stamina(not having to worry about magicka skills anymore) boosting your weapon damage skills even more. Even if you're just trying to use exploiter, which off-balance doesn't work against bosses, you're losing more damage than you would gain. So my question remains, why would you split your resource pools like that?

2) Yeah, splitting roles really only works in normal dungeons and a few vet dungeons. You sacrifice usability from one role to bring Usability to a different role. If you bring too much from one into the other, group members have to compensate for that. If the group can't, or isn't able to, compensate, they will fail. e.g. a person who is trying to both heal and dps would bring down the group more than having a person filling each of those roles, but still be better than completely missing the healer role.

3) You'd be dealing less damage than someone who had stacked everything into a singular resource pool, have less sustainability than someone only managing 1 resource, and be having more fun than them(?).

I don't doubt that Hybrids are fun to play. I don't doubt that they will work in most situations. The main issue I have is when you put yourself into group situations, you'd better be sure that you're not the one dragging the group down. That goes for anyone, not just hybrid builds.(A tertiary issue I have is people saying Hybrid builds are as good or better than any other build when they aren't. I don't think you've been saying that, I'm just saying it bothers me)

In most dungeons, that's not an issue. You only really need 35~40k group dps to complete most vet dungeons with ease. When your group dps starts to drop below 30k you start seeing problems in the dungeon. Once you go under 25k group dps, it makes the dungeon almost impossible on HM. Under 20k group dps, it's not going to be completable at all. If you were to run 2 hybrid dps at 20k each through a vet dungeon, there wouldn't be any problems. Also, 20k group dps is all that is needed to complete a normal dungeon.

It's way different in vet Trials. The comfort zone is ~27k per person(~220k group dps). You might be able to push that down to ~25k dps(~200k Group dps) if you don't mind it taking longer, but once it hits ~22k dps(~175k group dps) or less per person, you more than likely can't complete the trial. This isn't even taking into consideration HM which would need ~30k per person(~240k group dps) at a minimum to finish with comfort sitting at ~40k per person(~330k group dps).

The numbers are just generalizations, and the skill of each player does matter. Also, time spent dead also goes into these numbers as well. If most of the group is dead then you're not going to be putting out the ~200k group dps to be able to kill whatever boss.

Also, I need to say this somewhere: you can't depend on having raid buffs up at all times for your dps. Some raids might be able to have them up, but still need the dps to clear the trial. A main part of your build cannot depend on 2 or more other people providing buffs for you. The most you should ever expect in a group is ele-drain on the boss, and even that isn't a guarantee.

I've run trials with groups that had bad dps, and it sucks. It's not that it just takes a long time, it means that you can't complete the trial, period. This is just a commentary about bad dps in general, If most of your group cant hit the 20-25k benchmark during a trial, it won't be finished and you've wasted however long trying to complete it.

I've been in a vet trial group where my wife and I were dealing ~60% of the group dps(~55k dps between the 2 of us so 80~90k group dps. ~11k dps average per dps in the group). We only made it past the first boss out of sheer luck(probably 20-30+ reses on the attempt that we finished), and the group disbanded on the second(maybe third?) boss after trying to complete the Trial for over 4 hours. BTW, no hybrids, just really crappy builds and not so skillful people.

I guess to sum this up: for over 90% of the content in this game it doesn't matter what you do or what your build is. Questing? doesn't matter at all. Delves? doesn't matter. World bosses? doesn't matter. Normal dungeon? doesn't matter much. Vet dungeons? Matters a little. Normal Trials? Matters a bit. Vet Trials? Matters a lot. Vet Trial HM? Matters even more.

I don't dislike hybrid builds. If it works, I don't question it, I don't comment on it, I just go on my way. I just don't like it when people act like there is nothing wrong with their build when they are severely under-performing. Also, I've only ever seen people using DW and Destro not be able to pull 10k dps. I don't think I've ever seen someone actually running a Hybrid with anywhere close to good dps. If you can do it, good for you. Most people who try it can't though.

The thing you guys are discounting is that as a hybrid, you always can choose the best morph if you are spec'ed for the situation. Yes, your steel tornado will do more than my steel tornado, but you can't use lotus fan or impulse. I get to knock 10% off of their health, get do a group DOT, then heal myself with sap essence or tank with baleful mist, then cast bats while doing steel tornado.

It's not having higher damage in each skill, it's doing very versatile damage with the best morph.

@KochDerDamonen Oh my, are you implying you NEED 20k dps to get through a normal dungeon?! Maybe group dps, if that is what you meant and I am not misunderstanding you, then that's okay! If you meant individual dps, I'm going to need my LOL button back.

I doubt you meant individual DPS though, you're not new.

As for the main point you had, I agree. I'd rather take a competent player than a non competent one. I assure you, you can be a competent hybrid DPS.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@KochDerDamonen Oh my, are you implying you NEED 20k dps to get through a normal dungeon?! Maybe group dps, if that is what you meant and I am not misunderstanding you, then that's okay! If you meant individual dps, I'm going to need my LOL button back.

I doubt you meant individual DPS though, you're not new.

As for the main point you had, I agree. I'd rather take a competent player than a non competent one. I assure you, you can be a competent hybrid DPS.

I'm assuming that you're replying to my post, I did in fact say that 20k group dps is all you need to get through a normal dungeon.