Hybrid Builds? Help!

InFernalEntity · July 2017

So I decided to make a hybrid and focus on stat regeneration.
Should I have instead focused on max stat totals?

I went with Bosmer, Sorc, Vampire because that gives me +51% Stam recovery and + 20% Magic recovery before any armor passives etc.

Would I have been better running a Dunmer or an Imperial for stat totals?

I'm not trying to min/max. I'm just looking for a jack of all trades kind of build that could compete well in trials or dungeons. Someone who could fill a gap in a pinch. Damage shield to back up the tank. A little bit of mixed DPS. Occasional heals etc.

Is there a better race or class choice? (I did consider NB for the flat 15% regen boost to all stats)
What's the best sets for a hybrid build?
Best weapons? (I've focused on 2h and bow so far)
And what's the best stat split? I don't imagine it's 21/21/21 and 1 left over.

RouDeR · July 2017

Argonian sorc
5x necropotence 5x pelenals
1x Maelstrom sword
1x maelstrom Staff

Pop Destro ulti and start crit rushing and wiping things ^^ , all stats in stam btw

idk · July 2017

I do not play hybrids so cannot help you with a build.

You may want to look at some crafted gear.

Pelinal's Aptitude
Assassin's Guile
Shacklebreaker.

All seem to offer some help to hybrid builds. I have no idea how they play out. If you do not have access to DB DLC or Morrowing or the traits researched you will need to find someone to craft them for you.

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

This is my Pelinal build. What you can't see is the 10%+ 4k physical pen and almost 12k spell pen. I can give you some pointers if you like the setup.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

The Argonian Sorc hybrid looks interesting to say the least. I'm not sure how I'd play with it (especially considering I can't run vMA on any of my current toons)

I wasn't aware of assassins guile. It would make an interesting 4 pc to combine with Shacklebreaker.

Thanks for your inputs.

KingYogi415 · July 2017

Hybrids are for roleplayers doing overworld content.

The 10k max dps you pull will not be enough for a vet dungeon or a trial.

You won't be chosen by anyone to tank, dps or heal because you can not do any of those roles well.

Vet content and trials are not easy, having the right build is only a start.

idk · July 2017

InFernalEntity wrote: »

The Argonian Sorc hybrid looks interesting to say the least. I'm not sure how I'd play with it (especially considering I can't run vMA on any of my current toons)

I wasn't aware of assassins guile. It would make an interesting 4 pc to combine with Shacklebreaker.

Thanks for your inputs.

Once leveled up, which is the only time you would wear necro, you can use one monster piece to finish out the set and use weapons for probably the crafted set. jewelry would need to be necro since pelinal's is crafted.

Shacklebreaker could interesting as well since you are not stacking any spell or weapon damage to benefit from the 5PC of Pelinal, as far as I can tell.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

@PS4_ZeColmeia sure! I'm still trying to find out what's best so if you've got any advice I'll take it.

@KingYogi415 I am aware of the difficulties having ran vMoL on an Argonian Stamblade with purple hundings rage (I sucked. I will admit I sucked). However, I'm sure I could manage more than 10k mixed DPS with the right build. In future, constructive feedback would be appreciated and not just "no one wants you because you don't min/max"

KingYogi415 · July 2017

Are you saying you can pull 30k+ dps with purple non BIS weapons on a argonian stamblade?

Are you saying you have beat Vmol?

Are you expecting to run Vmol with a hybrid?

InFernalEntity · July 2017

I have beat vMoL. Without running BiS. I was dragged through vMoL (carried doesn't even begin to cover it) without an optimized build because the original person who was gonna run it had to go.

So I didn't even pull 30k DPS. I was just there to fill a gap I'm not gonna lie.
However if that's possible then it's possible to be way more effective in vMoL with a hybrid no?
Case dismissed my guy.

Is it the most optimized and ideal build for a vet trial in the world? Absolutely not.
Is it possible? Completely different question.

idk · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Hybrids are for roleplayers doing overworld content.

The 10k max dps you pull will not be enough for a vet dungeon or a trial.

You won't be chosen by anyone to tank, dps or heal because you can not do any of those roles well.

Vet content and trials are not easy, having the right build is only a start.

Hybrids clear and make weekly leaderboard for vMA every week. The guy is just looking for a fun build to play. Nothing wrong with that.

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

k so I personally like pelinal's or shacklebreaker for hybrids, but shacklebreaker really only dunmer. Pelinal's is great for every race including dunmer so I feel like it's more flexible.

From there its really a question of dedication, ie how many skill points you want so that you can take advantage of different sets for different reasons. Some examples:

LA gives spell pen and spell crit. LA therefore is very easy to do a crit build with since a majority of what you will do with crit for spell crit will benefit weapon crit.

MA has bonus to weapon crit and weapon damage. This makes weapon damage the easiest to focus on for building the hybrid.

HA benefits both weapon and spell damage and so is most flexible, but only when you're taking damage.

Generally anything I would prefer to use with LA, I will use with HA. When I use MA, I generally am always weapon damage traits.
_________

You won't really enjoy a hybrid until your around 500 CP and close to 200 skill points. I also craft on my hybrid, have 339 skill points and still need almost 30 more before I'll feel fairly complete. That's also because I use all 3 armor types so I can maximize my damage depending on the setting.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO yep. I'm tired of the min/max builds. I have a khajiit NB that's fun to play but I want something new. Thanks for the suggestions.

@PS4_ZeColmeia I've got 533 CP right now so I won't need to worry about those and I've got a crafter on another toon so I probably won't need as many Skill Points as that to fill out the abilities. Probably just for the beneficial passives in Alchemy and Provisioning.

I'll probably alternate between LA and MA too until I find out what I like best. And I'll probably just run with Pelenials then. Thank you for your help!

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

I do my Hybrid on my Khajiit NB and it's fun. I would recommend using your stamblade but roll as a mageblade for a bit. You'll understand the skills a bit better on the mage side and you'll kinda start to understand how to integrate the two. I would make him a vampire as well.

My screenie was of my Khajiit NB.

Tannus15 · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Hybrids are for roleplayers doing overworld content.

The 10k max dps you pull will not be enough for a vet dungeon or a trial.

You won't be chosen by anyone to tank, dps or heal because you can not do any of those roles well.

Vet content and trials are not easy, having the right build is only a start.

I managed a solid 13k on my dK hybrid

Yeah, I went pelenials with dreugh king slayer, 5 medium, 2 heavy, kenna and veledreth, all weapon damage enchants, divines, warrior mundas.

DW front bar, inferno staff on the back bar.

Use up both magi and stam pools and then hit the ult to recover.
32/0/32 on stats.

Tried it with undaunted infiltrator instead of DKS and found it to be slightly worse. Also tried 3 agility jewels (arcane) and kept 2 DKS (3 on DW) for the extra weapon damage and it was very much the same.

Buuuuut no matter what I did I couldn't get over the fact that if i just went stam dk i could have pretty much the same thing with a lot more damage.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

What jewellery do you run?
Or weapon sets?

usmcjdking · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Hybrids are for roleplayers doing overworld content.

The 10k max dps you pull will not be enough for a vet dungeon or a trial.

You won't be chosen by anyone to tank, dps or heal because you can not do any of those roles well.

Vet content and trials are not easy, having the right build is only a start.

??????????????????????

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InFernalEntity · July 2017

Is that 36k DPS with a hybrid?

DocFrost72 · July 2017

InFernalEntity wrote: »

Is that 36k DPS with a hybrid?

Yes it is. The front loading of CP has made hybrids MUCH more viable. Like the one in that SS, I reccomend sorc.

@usmcjdking I was theorycrafting and was using 5 pelinals, 2 stormfist, 3 agility. What are you running in that pic, and more importantly- what pots are you using? I had to use crit only pots.

Tannus15 · July 2017

InFernalEntity wrote: »

Is that 36k DPS with a hybrid?

It certainly is!

Keep in mind though that he's getting major brutality from a DK, SPC, and warhorn and it's from January, so we're not talking with the sustain nerfs and he's a sorc.

I mean, I'm not poo poo'ing that. It's a sweet parse for a hybrid. I'm just pointing out there is a lot going on there that isn't happening without a solid group who were not doing anything at all apart from buffing him.

87.5% of the damage? This was a "lets see how high we can get your hybrid dps" run or I'm a muppet.

Dantaria · July 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Hybrids are for roleplayers doing overworld content.

The 10k max dps you pull will not be enough for a vet dungeon or a trial.

You won't be chosen by anyone to tank, dps or heal because you can not do any of those roles well.

Vet content and trials are not easy, having the right build is only a start.

??????????????????????

????

?

Phhhhhhh.

82% Warhorn + 81.5% SPC + Combat Prayer + Dungeon Boost (funny that you choose dungeon boss and not a skeleton).

You on your own do not even hit 25k. If you did, that would be 40k+. If you on your own hitted 30k+, that would be ~50k.

With that amount of support 36k isn't nowhere impressive if we talk about end-game. So yes:

InFernalEntity wrote: »

I have beat vMoL. Without running BiS. I was dragged through vMoL (carried doesn't even begin to cover it) without an optimized build because the original person who was gonna run it had to go.

So I didn't even pull 30k DPS. I was just there to fill a gap I'm not gonna lie.
However if that's possible then it's possible to be way more effective in vMoL with a hybrid no?
Case dismissed my guy.

Is it the most optimized and ideal build for a vet trial in the world? Absolutely not.
Is it possible? Completely different question.

You totally can be carried through vMoL with hybrid. You can be carried through vHoF. You can be carried through anything by competent team in which members far exceed the requirement of content.

Can you be an equal teammember with a hybrid? No. Hell no. Not with the current state of the game. Unless they change things, in endgame you will be a carry and a carry only.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

If 30k is the minimum requirement for DPS and with a team buff you can, as shown in that pic, deal 36k with buffs... I don't see how that makes a carry? That's pulling your weight.

Could you be squeezing out an extra 4 - 14k? Perhaps but I mean...if they are exceeding the minimum expectation they are performing at a competitive endgame level. You might not be equalling the other DDs if they're managing a ~45k average but you're reaching the expectation.

And I mean 36k?...that's not carry level DPS. Even with buffs. You're running this as a 4 or 12 player team. You'd be mad if you weren't getting buffs from somewhere.

max_only · July 2017

People having fun in ESO? "playing your way"???? Blasphemy!

Dantaria · July 2017

InFernalEntity wrote: »

If 30k is the minimum requirement for DPS and with a team buff you can, as shown in that pic, deal 36k with buffs... I don't see how that makes a carry? That's pulling your weight.

Could you be squeezing out an extra 4 - 14k? Perhaps but I mean...if they are exceeding the minimum expectation they are performing at a competitive endgame level. You might not be equalling the other DDs if they're managing a ~45k average but you're reaching the expectation.

And I mean 36k?...that's not carry level DPS. Even with buffs. You're running this as a 4 or 12 player team. You'd be mad if you weren't getting buffs from somewhere.

No, it's not pulling your weight. I'll... try to explain.

The thing is - you see DPS increase (from your own "honest" skele number) only in already coordinated core trial-team. As I said - did you see this level of support? In any progression group you see DPS decrease. Because people struggle with mechanics greatly and tanks and healers do not provide the level of support you see on screenshot.

Now. Remember the 1st vMoL boss? The one with pillars and curses? Let's take him as an example.

We have 2 players, each makes 30k on their own. We have good support. One gets lucky: he doesn't get cursed, the distance from pillars is always good. He makes 50k DPS. The other one doesn't get lucky - and he makes only 30k. His own 30k, because all support is negated by him having to run to cleansing platforms. 50k + 30k = 80k group DPS.

Now. We have two players. One makes 30k, other - 20k. The second gets lucky: he doesn't get cursed, the distance from pillars is always good... He makes 36k DPS. The first isn't that lucky - he makes his own 30k DPS. 36k + 30k = 66k group DPS.

14k group DPS difference. It is a difference between clearing vMoL and not clearing it. Between killing Twins and being overwhelmed by adds. Hell, between killing Zhaj'hassa (did I spell it corretly?) before you have 0 pillars or not killing him.

If 7 DDs out of 8 can make 220k group DPS, the 8th can pretty much provide 0 DPS. Noone cares. For as long as he knows the difference between Twins and doesn't wipe the raid on mechanics... Pffff.

If the group actually still needs to work for DPS... 14k DPS group difference. This is not the risk anyone will be willing to take.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

Okay...but let's take your 220k as the benchmark group DPS to finish vMoL.

From the assumption that DDs need to hit 30k DPS you can have 6 min/max DPS players doing 30k. That's achievable.

That totals 180k unbuffed.

2 hybrid DPS players can manage 20/25k DPS each. That's another 40k. Unbuffed.

That's 220k of unbuffed DPS. And there will be buffs. Which means it's totally possible to run vMoL with 2 hybrid DDs.

It might be easier to run it with 8 min/max optimised BiS builds. But there's no reason for it not to be achievable with 2 hybrid DDs in the mix.

Actually working off the maximum of 36k buffed DPS and the minimum of 220k group DPS...because we all love min/maxing so much.

8 hybrid DDs could theoretically run vMoL. That's 8 × 36. Which would total 288k DPS.
Assuming that each player can average 25k unbuffed... sure you're 20k short. But I imagine at least 2 DDs would run pots or be in range of a buff at any given time to clear the 220k minimum and hit 222k DPS (increasing DPS by 11k for 2 players takes you from 200k to 222k). That's not even considering the spill over DPS from healers and tanks. (Sure it's not high AND its not their job but 4 players can manage 20k DPS between them?)

The only issue I can see with running 8 hybrid DDs is the complete drop in DPS at the last boss in vMoL where you'd have to send 3 players through the gate to do the thing (I've only finished vMoL once so I'm rusty on the exactness of the mechanics but you know what I mean) because 2 buffed DPS running means you lose 72k DPS for that short period.

You might opt instead to run 6 hybrids just to edge the damage benchmark with 2 min/max builds.
Or instead of sending 2 DPS. .. send 1 heal, 1 tank, 1 DPS.

But with the numbers proposed it's still totally doable. At least mathematically. If the minimum DPS benchmark per single player is 30k.
The minimum group DPS is 220k.
8 players dealing 30k manage 240k
8 hybrids can run vMoL. And probably with more survivability or self sustain as a trade off for damage.
It might not be as quick or easy but mathematically possible and totally viable for end game content.

With that established...would you still run Pelinials in vMoL?
Or would you switch to a single damage type but use your other stat for heals and buffs?

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Ask ZOS to remove bonus DPS from max resources.
Damage output should depent only on WD and SD.
Challenges to PvE due to loss of dps can be addressed by the Developers by reducing mob/bosses HP to achieve desired balance.

PvP: attacks will be weaker, heals will be weaker and Damage Shields will have to be nereef a bit to be adjusted to the changes to DPS.

Mondini · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Are you saying you can pull 30k+ dps with purple non BIS weapons on a argonian stamblade?

Are you saying you have beat Vmol?

Are you expecting to run Vmol with a hybrid?

Who can't?
Who hasn't?
Who isn't?

Dantaria · July 2017

InFernalEntity wrote: »

You might opt instead to run 6 hybrids just to edge the damage benchmark with 2 min/max builds.
Or instead of sending 2 DPS. .. send 1 heal, 1 tank, 1 DPS.

Ahahahaha, awwwwwwwww!

Sorry, it's just... It clearly shows just how far you are from endgame.

You cannot send tanks or healers to run. Raid needs 2 tanks, because 1 holds Hulk, and raid needs 2 healers, because one stays with melee group and the other with "metheor-catchers" range group (I'm not talking about 1 brave soul catching metheors, we're clearly talking progression here

). Only DDs run. Period.

And there will never be 36k x 8. Numbers are going to be much, much lower. Because people die and are in need of rez = -2DDs. Because someone will always get cursed on Zhaj'hassa. Because you switch sides on Twins when your color change. Because running on Rakkhat.

People ask for 30k in vMoL. 30k x 8 = 240k group DPS. And those groups still not make it, by the way. Have you ever wondered why the mark is so high? Because in meaningful endgame you're either the top-raider in core team or you lose DPS. People die, people make mistakes, people waste on mechanics more time than it's necessary. 30k x 8 group has a chance of completing vMoL in some rational amount of time. Risky 20k x 8 group? Months. And even that - only if they are, despite their DPS, very good players. Which poses the question - why choose suffering?

Your math is purely abstract. The reality is much harsher.

InFernalEntity wrote: »

That's 220k of unbuffed DPS. And there will be buffs. Which means it's totally possible to run vMoL with 2 hybrid DDs.

You meant "it's totally possible to carry 2 hybrids through vMoL"?

You constadict yourself with this and "pulling your weight". The simple truth is: if you're a DD and you consistently make <12.5% of the group DPS, you're carried. Easy as that. You're not pulling your weight, you're not an equal member of the team. Others are DPSing for you. You. Are. A. Carry.

So to answer your question:

InFernalEntity wrote: »

With that established...would you still run Pelinials in vMoL?
Or would you switch to a single damage type but use your other stat for heals and buffs?

As a DD, I will leave all my 64 points in magicka, thank you very much.

I'm a Damage Dealer. Either I averagely do my 12.5% group DPS or I'm a carry.

I have been carried through vHoF. That did happen - I'm not denying it. Am I content with it? No. Would I choose it as my modus operandi? Hell no.

From your point of view my numbers were fine - "9.5-12%". But the truth is - they are not. You are a Damage Dealer. Do pull your weight - run with the people who make roughly the same DPS as you.

See how well you'll complete the content. If you will complete it.

usmcjdking · July 2017

@Dantaria

That character has completed all content in the game pre Morrowind with the exception of HM VMOL. 530k score in VMA. Has utterly dumpstered fantastic PVPers in duels and was the basis for a lot of the "Dragon Disruptors" you see in Cyro today. it was carried through HM VAA due to the inability and complete ineffectiveness of the Storm Atronach and not having a legitimate ult replacement at the time. IIRC my parse was like 31k on The Mage which was well below the average, established threshold for success and left me a bit disappointed in my performance.

Supplemental buffs in my parse posted do not provide the same % scaling buffs as your standard build, either (largely due to low crit & crit modifier due to significantly different CP allocation).

The simple fact is (and this may hurt your itty bitty internet ESO ego), you do not need all star DPS to complete anything in the game. VMOL clears were completed with DPS averaging LESS than 30k DPS. The worse you are the higher DPS you need - but there is a minimum threshold.

You're a bad player evidenced by your inability to provide any tangible information to help OP, get carried by builds and gear, have no understanding on the subject you are commenting on (hybrids), don't know the appropriate mathematical information required to backup your numerical claims (which you could have asked for), have no competence as a build crafter and should probably just exit this thread permanantly.

Edit: I think the best part of all this is this particular character completed VMOL before @Dantaria according to post history. GGWP.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

Well really you'd only have to pull 12.5% of what's expected of you...anything over the minimum is icing on the cake let's be real it's welcome but unnecessary to actually finish vMoL. So you're true 12.5% mark lies at...shock horror...27.5k.

I mean if you wanna play by numbers the math has to be abstract. You're literally playing the game on percentages and minimum and maximum values. The abstract pure math is how you're playing. What if someone pulls 15% and everyone else only 12.5? Are the entire team carries? Of course not.

Sure you're being carried without buffs if you hit 25k. But as soon as you get buffed you're 9k clear.
As it works right now...min/max builds will out DPS hybrids. I haven't even argued against that because it's true. But hybrids are viable for endgame content because they can meet the benchmark. Plus...64 points in magic and a 40k DPS is no good if you're always dead. 40k DPS on a dead sorc is a grand total of 0 DPS. (I'm not implying you are always dead. But you know...actually playing the game and not the numbers is just as important)

Also when I was carried I probably wasn't even touching 9% DPS. I have only completed 1 trial. It was vMoL. Like I said I was dragged through it and I was there just to fill space. I'm well aware of how unprepared I am for endgame content. Anything above vet Hard Mode dungeons I don't even consider doing.

Mainly because even though I'm running full gold gear now I don't want to be that guy not pulling the weight. If anything I feel I'd pull my weight better in a group as a hybrid than as a min maxed because I just think i suck at that kind of set up.

InFernalEntity · July 2017

@usmcjdking thank you for your input.

Do you mind if I ask what you mean by different CP allocation and also what kind of gear/set up you were running to pull 30k+ DPS on a hybrid?

I have never built anything outside of the min/max system and I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.