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The new cheese in battlegrounds
Koensol
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Yesterday I have been playing quite a bit of bg's and I have noticed a new form of cheese emerge. There are these unkillable perma blocktard tanks in bg's, that will continue to stand on a flag (mostly middle) and prevent any other team from taking it. Especially in domination they are broken. We always managed to kill of his buddies, so at one point there are 4 of us pounding away on this templar tank, cc'ing him with fear and trying to burst him down in that small window of opportunity. It was just impossible. He was always able to last until his teammates came back, by whom he was healed back to full immediately. Rinse repeat.
Know that I was playing in a pug group. There is no thing like timing ults in a pug, so we were kinda powerless. The guy literally did nothing more than stand on the middle flag all game long... Popping his shield ult and god knows what else. Why is this cancerous playstyle still a thing in Morrowind? I mean in Cyrodiil I don't care since you can mostly ignore these troll tanks, but in domination and capture the flag they are an utter pest.
I cannot be the only one to experience this?
Know that I was playing in a pug group. There is no thing like timing ults in a pug, so we were kinda powerless. The guy literally did nothing more than stand on the middle flag all game long... Popping his shield ult and god knows what else. Why is this cancerous playstyle still a thing in Morrowind? I mean in Cyrodiil I don't care since you can mostly ignore these troll tanks, but in domination and capture the flag they are an utter pest.
I cannot be the only one to experience this?
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GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heals/barriers should have a short casting time.
Damage dealers should not sustain and tanks should not deal bursting damage.1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So a random and at least somewhat uncoordinated gang of four cannot kill what appears to be a strong, well-played, well built for the role of a completely defensive oriented build character in under the 30s or so it takes the allies to respawn and come get them aid and that means...
something is "cheese" "broken" or "cancer" BS???
Yeah, right, got it.
Did not see any mention of deflies or other debuffs being used but likely they are too cheesy to consider too.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."25 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Well played? Give me a break, he just stood there holding block. I.e. cheese mode. Well built? Yes, I agree he most likely is. And for battlegrounds this seems to be a trend where overly tanky builds are just dominating. In Cyrodiil this is completely fine, but for game modes with a map this small, I just don't think this is balanced.So a random and at least somewhat uncoordinated gang of four cannot kill what appears to be a strong, well-played, well built for the role of a completely defensive oriented build character in under the 30s or so it takes the allies to respawn and come get them aid and that means...
something is "cheese" "broken" or "cancer" BS???
Yeah, right, got it.
Did not see any mention of deflies or other debuffs being used but likely they are too cheesy to consider too.
And like I said, I know we were a pug group and not as coordinated. So I'm not saying there is no counter, just saying they are overtuned for the current state of bg's, especially domination and cap the flag.
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Floki_Vilgerdarson✭✭✭✭OP You are complaining that a Tank did his job by defending his flag/relic?
Have you ever played capture the flag? That is called defence.11 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know the more people you have on the flag it flips so if you had 2 people on the flag you would flip it even with him on it.Even then if he had the center flag go capture the other 3.You wasted your time and your team time fighting that tank for no reason.14 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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I know what defence is, and I understand the importance of tanks. Heck, back in the day I even made a thread about tanks being useless in ESO. They vastly inproved the playstyle, for which I am happy. But I think they are currently overtuned in battlegrounds, the way these maps and game modes are designed. It shouldn't take a full coordinated premade group to be able to burst down a tank before his buddies come back. Not in any mmo I have played this was a thing, unless he had a pocket healer.Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »OP You are complaining that a Tank did his job by defending his flag/relic?
Have you ever played capture the flag? That is called defence.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I saw many of these unkillable tanks going on forever, with somewhat decend damage, pre-MW and after MW in both PvP environments. So it surely aren't the changes to CP or sustain. There is a thread going on about how block cost changes doing little to nothing against permablock builds but hurting everything else.
To add to that, BG game modes are deeply flawed. Killstealing in Death match, no pick up time in ctf.
I feel you, OP. But you could have gone for the other flags too.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on June 29, 2017 6:38AM5 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chances are those sets that allow that will end up nerfed . Battlefields are ZOS's baby and they are focused on making those cater to all levels of play . I'm sure that will upset a bunch of tanks in PVE but you are correct about the type of achievements being effected and that is why it will end up happening .2 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How else are tanks going to be useful in battlegrounds?
Edited by MattT1988 on June 29, 2017 7:15AM9 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
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Well played? Give me a break, he just stood there holding block. I.e. cheese mode. Well built? Yes, I agree he most likely is. And for battlegrounds this seems to be a trend where overly tanky builds are just dominating. In Cyrodiil this is completely fine, but for game modes with a map this small, I just don't think this is balanced.So a random and at least somewhat uncoordinated gang of four cannot kill what appears to be a strong, well-played, well built for the role of a completely defensive oriented build character in under the 30s or so it takes the allies to respawn and come get them aid and that means...
something is "cheese" "broken" or "cancer" BS???
Yeah, right, got it.
Did not see any mention of deflies or other debuffs being used but likely they are too cheesy to consider too.
And like I said, I know we were a pug group and not as coordinated. So I'm not saying there is no counter, just saying they are overtuned for the current state of bg's, especially domination and cap the flag.
that you dont like his style of play is obvious.
That it does not count as well played is debateable.
While you may not think it is balanced, which is fine, i dont see uncoordinated groups cannot win against it if it is well played and part of a well working group as the measure of overtuned or imbalanced.
just to be clear, their group did not beat you, right? they were not smashing you around the map and taking all your porridge and sleeping in your beds with impunity while you were helpless to stop them?
So, at least one part of the usual OP criteria "winning" did not seem to be a thing this other team was doing, right?
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."4 -
slumber_sandb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Cant even complete vMA as a tank, now a tank was able to do his role in this new feature and its OP?
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Block-Casting is the issue.
You mean Animation Cancelling*
No. Holding block while being able to cast abilities. Notice how most magplars use shields? They know they can mitigate all crits and 35% damage to ensure they can cleanse and spam breath of life whenever their health gets low.
When it reality all abilities should drop block while casting allowing other players to hit you. Theres something called reactive blocking.. not perma blocking whenever you get in trouble.
Animation canceling is its own thing. I personally am not a fan of that either though. I prefer to see animations which leads to reactive combat. Cant react to what you cant see.Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on July 1, 2017 9:01AMPS4 NA DC4 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭True bg cheese is a full group of sorcs who just cast endless fury then 4 curses on you whilst standing there stacking shields.
Whoever thought a normal skill like curse should not only recast itself but is undodeable and unblockable is dull. You just have to accept the damage lol2 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭regarding the domination and CTF they could just go the route of WoW and the longer you stay inside/hold the flag without dropping/leaving the objective, the bigger the debuff you get that makes you easier to kill.
domination one requiring you to either die or wait outside the area for 10-20 seconds so they cant just sit on the border and move in and out to dump the debuffPLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Block-Casting is the issue.
You mean Animation Cancelling*
No. Holding block while being able to cast abilities. Notice how most magplars use shields? They know they can mitigate all crits and 35% damage to ensure they can cleanse and spam breath of life whenever their health gets low.
When it reality all abilities should drop block while casting allowing other players to hit you. Theres something called reactive blocking.. not perma blocking whenever you get in trouble.
Animation canceling is its own thing. I personally am not a fan of that either though. I prefer to see animations which leads to reactive combat. Can react to what you cant see.
You are saying it's even worse that what I though?
Any claim by anybody that PvP Eso takes skill is laughable.
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Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Useless tanks are not a problem, maybe it is too easy to make an almost impossible to kill tank but whatever. It only gets annoying if they think they are dds and spam gap-closers on me and permanently snare me.
Almost unkillable healbots are a way bigger problem that has a lot to do with the s&b ulti.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭So tanks are OP now? Awesome. I look forward to soloing all vDungeons by standing still and blocking.
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ofSunhold✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Block-Casting is the issue.
You mean Animation Cancelling*
No. Holding block while being able to cast abilities. Notice how most magplars use shields? They know they can mitigate all crits and 35% damage to ensure they can cleanse and spam breath of life whenever their health gets low.
That's not why I'm carrying a shield.
People should have to play the classes they *** about. It all looks so easy when it's not you.Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.4 -
ofSunhold✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Chances are those sets that allow that will end up nerfed . Battlefields are ZOS's baby and they are focused on making those cater to all levels of play . I'm sure that will upset a bunch of tanks in PVE but you are correct about the type of achievements being effected and that is why it will end up happening .
I hope you're right. They do love their OP set bonuses, and seem to prefer wrecking class skills over dealing with that mess.Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.0 -
Yngol✭✭✭Yesterday I have been playing quite a bit of bg's and I have noticed a new form of cheese emerge. There are these unkillable perma blocktard tanks in bg's, that will continue to stand on a flag (mostly middle) and prevent any other team from taking it. Especially in domination they are broken. We always managed to kill of his buddies, so at one point there are 4 of us pounding away on this templar tank, cc'ing him with fear and trying to burst him down in that small window of opportunity. It was just impossible. He was always able to last until his teammates came back, by whom he was healed back to full immediately. Rinse repeat.
Know that I was playing in a pug group. There is no thing like timing ults in a pug, so we were kinda powerless. The guy literally did nothing more than stand on the middle flag all game long... Popping his shield ult and god knows what else. Why is this cancerous playstyle still a thing in Morrowind? I mean in Cyrodiil I don't care since you can mostly ignore these troll tanks, but in domination and capture the flag they are an utter pest.
I cannot be the only one to experience this?
For the record, flags are flipped even if you don't kill the "OP" tank, so long as you have more people on the flag than there are people from the other team. Furthermore, just holding 1 flag isn't a winning strategy in bg's (because if you have only 1, that means that 1 other team will have at least 2 flags, thus outscoring you).
So I'm not exactly sure what the problem here is?
EDIT: The "I can't kill it thus it's cancer" mentality is rather awfulEdited by Yngol on June 29, 2017 11:31AM6 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your tank was in his face interrupting/bashing his heals and applying resource poisons right?
Your sorc put a negate on him at the same time?
Try this as your DPS wails on him.
Takes more than a group it takes a coordinated group.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just capture the flag and don't kill the tank. Problem solved.
In domination, its as simple as just piling up on the flag and ignoring the tank entirely.
In capture the flag, its as simple as running past the tank (dodging the immobilize, etc.) grabbing the flag and running.
In deathmatch, its as simple as ignoring the dude completely and just farming his teammates.Edited by Izaki on June 29, 2017 11:51AM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade4 -
A guy not dying against your op Selene&Viper&RM combo? Damn it, this shouldnt be. Nerf tanks.
For real. Tanks are the most little problem in BG´s atm. They are not useless, but they don´t get alot of points so not many play full tanks there. Its an alot more valid playstile than all the Stamblade/Sorcproctards and Magsorcs spamming one skill only.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd rather complain about Domination and CTF bring useless modes as it is implemented right now.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Sru✭✭✭Gosh ... tank doing his/her job and giving up all DPS to do it. Seems perfectly fine to me, just poor opponents not understanding BG mechanics.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zkEW5tc6BM