End game, progressive PvE Content (Letter to ZOS)

Belazarus · January 2017

Hey everyone

Thanks for all your posts - so many I won't be able to directly respond to all of them haha. Nice to see it's not just me, and there are others feeling the same frustration.

The one thing I do want to clarify, is that I consider myself a VERY casual player

I've never been a hardcore elite player, and indeed our guild pride ourselves on being casual care bears hehe. So my suggestions in my opening page are far from an "elitist" or "competitive" point of view.

In fact, the kind of systems I suggested, already exist in several MMO's and work very successfully - yes, for CASUAL players haha. The premise is very simple, you can play as little or as much as you like, and still make progress. Let's say you log in, do 1 or 2 dungeons, and a few quests - even if you don't actually complete the dungeons - you know that you'll still log off that night having earned a few "tokens" or a bit of "reputation", meaning that you have made real progress!

Sooner or later, you'll have enough tokens (or reputation) to purchase yourself a nice piece of gear, as you "gradually" work towards building your shiny new set of gear. So yeah, it could take you two to three weeks, before you have enough tokens to buy that nice pair of gloves, or it could take a couple of months, totally up to you as to how often you play the game. The beauty though is, regardless if you are a ultra casual, or super hardcore, either way you can still make progress.

Eventually you'll have earned enough, to complete the whole set of gear that you have been working towards, and that feeling is amazing. It doesn't depend on skill or anything, just purely the time you invest into playing the game, but EVERYONE has the opportunity to earn those tokens or reputation, quite easily (simply by doing dungeons, pledges, dailies, dolmens, etc etc).

And sure, you can say "well eventually you'll have earned enough tokens / rep to purchase all the gear you want, then you're back to square one..." But you see, the trick is to make the items expensive enough that actually, it WILL take time to have enough to buy each piece, meaning your progress is stretched over a period of time. Really, by the time you have earned enough to complete the full set of gear you're after, ZOS is releasing the NEXT sets, with ideally some new content (dungeons etc) though it's not even necessary, and you can start the next journey! And on it goes, it's a system which works great because there is a REAL incentive & reward to doing all the existing repeatable content.

It really isn't a reward system designed for just elite / competitive players, nor is it just a grind fest (every few days / weeks, you reach a point where you have enough to purchase that next vital piece, so it doesn't really feel like a grind). You can indeed put other cheaper things in those stores / vendors, so if you want to spend SOME of your tokens on , let's say an XP scroll, or other cool cosmetics, then you can - done correctly, it really doesn't feel like a grind at all, and also does not require any level of skill to earn. It's just a fun way of rewarding people for doing all the awesome existing content.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm ALL for "actual new content" too ! But my point was, we just need more of an incentive right now, to enjoy the content that exists, while we wait for the next big DLC.

And in response to all those who have suggested I'm wanting to change the game into something hardcore, elitist, grindy, non-casual, etc etc. These suggestions I made, are just suggestions, based on seeing them working really successfully in other MMO's. They wouldn't "change" the game in my view, they would "add" to the game and help keep more end-game players engaged longer term

As to the point that some of you have made, that ESO isn't really an MMO, but rather designed as a Elder Scrolls Role Playing Game that you can play with others, and therefore the reward systems I'm suggesting have no place in ESO - then fair enough. I think that would be a huge shame though, as there are a LOT of MMO players in ESO, and I just know that with some simple additions, we can keep both TES and MMO fans happy.

Thanks again for all the views comments and suggestions, keep them coming

Kindly
Bel

Wifeaggro13 · January 2017

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Belazarus wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses guys!

@THEDKEXPERIENCE
You're right, I am certainly mainly a PvE player, and indeed I'm posting this predominantly on behalf of the PvE playing community. The times I have PvP'd in ESO, they have been fun, and I completely realise that there is always Cyrodiil & IC to enjoy at end game.

However I do think it's a huge shame, that PvE players should be forced to play PvP at end game, if they want to continue to enjoy & progress in the game. I believe that the game should be able to keep both communities happy for the long term

The thing is you came to a game that was designed and pitched primarily as a 3way seige warfare endgame game. They were very clear about this since production. The designer wanted bring back a popular game system and theme from an older game called Darkage of Camelot. ofcoarse they gave some other things to do.. but the game theme is centered around the 3 alliances at war and you fighting for your alliance in Cyrodiil. This is the only reason alot of people play it

You wanting things added and changed would be like joining a basketball team then saying hey basketball needs to be changed so we aren't playing each other but against the clock and so on and so on......

Being a PVE player you have alot of games to choose from designed primarily for PVE. I think GW2 would be perfect for you...

The game was never pitched as a pure pvp 3 way war fare. Never ever it was always billed as a game for everyone, Cyrodiil was the crem de le crem for the pvp communtiy. It was always billed a s a game for everyone pvp and pve were meant o work hand in hand for progression. Matter o fact in beta Cyrodiil was not even in the first phase. The game was meant for the encompassing MMO player, be it PVP or PVE. Making a pure pvp game would not capture the audience or sales they wanted. There is a crap load of pve in cyrodil. Did you even follow this game, listen to podcasts, dev interviews or development articles?

Jimbullbee85 · January 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

It seems that they have just made most of the items to easy to obtain. Really the only items that require much effort to obtain are certain vma weapons. And those usually aren't too much trouble if we are not taking traits into considerations.

But it seems zos wants things to be easy to obtain. I think a grind is good for any mmo. Just look at how much easier everything in the game is to obtain from what they use to be, with exception of trait specific vma weapons.

Want a certain monster mask? Well they are 100% drop rate. Want shoulders? Gold keys can be obtained from normal pledges and they are 100% chance to get from chest. This game has become a hand out game where everything is pretty much given out freely. Want gold jewelry? Just go to the golden vendor.

The problem is everything is way to easy to get. There is no progression left. Don't say pvp as that is also a joke. If people still cared about playing the game in pvp then maybe that would be different. But that is not the case, everyone just wants to farm ap. What do people want to farm ap for? Who knows as everything obtained from ap is also easy to get.

Don't get me wrong when they make the changes to increase drop rates I to get excited. But I realize that once I have all the items then I lose interest in playing the game.

TLDR I need that carrot to chase.

Yup. Imo ZOS is only bothered about making money from the crown store. As long as players are spending ridiculous money on crates and mounts they're happy. It is a business afterall. General interest In the game will die slowly but ZOS will only do something about when the money stops coming in.

Balamoor · January 2017

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Here's the fundamental paradox of all video games, especially MMOs. If you design them solely for PvE content players will eventually complete it. "Theme park" games always peter out. The yearly churn of Call of Duty titles or other MMO models are clear indications of this.

Games which hold the most player attention are those where the content or dynamics are driven by the players themselves. This could be in the form of competition (e.g. League of Legends) or "sandbox" elements (e.g. Minecraft). Cyrodiil should have been this feature for ESO. Except that the developers made a choice to abandon Cyrodiil in favor of quarterly "content" dribbles.

Consider ESO in the following manner: no significant addition has been made to the Alliance War map in nearly 3 years. Yet players are still fighting on a daily basis. The only thing that changes in Cyrodiil is skill and item balance. The next patch has promise ZERO new content for PvP except a balance update -- and players are excited for it.

On the other hand, ESO has received numerous zone additions, dungeons, and quests... which are complete-able within hours of release. No matter how to plead or what is added to ESO, there will never be enough PvE content for you. It is simply impossible for a development team to create content as fast as players consume it.

Well this is not entirely true. its how much effort you put into the content. Arguably Eq2 when they released a Expac it had several layers to it. AA layer, 6 Dungeons tiering with a reasonable RNG loot table of legendary items that tiered up with diffculty, raids usally about 3 per expansion tiering as well. a large quest per class that would unlock an item that gained power through questing through dungeons and raiding, lots of faction questing , guild writs , new crafting tiers , new collections,level increase with new class abilities.,new starting zone and sometimes a new race. tons of solo questing. seriously if you were a casual player you would not be done with the content by the time the next expac released. if you were a hard core you had the raids on farm in about 5 months. most of the time they would release a small DLC in the middle for about 9.99 that was roughly the size of a ZOS DLC .These expansions cost alot though but they were almost a new game with all the features. amny other MMO's were able to Provide large scale content in those post launch time frames as well

Tradtionally sand box MMO's do not do as well, the only one that has really broken and held its core is Eve online. all the new ones bleed players right after launch. comparing games that are in the E sport category that are not persistent like LOL is just simply not fair and you can earn just about everything in LOL by actually playing the game purchasing things is for the instant gratification crowd.

As for PVP look the situation is this your getting shafted just like the tradtionally MMO pve crowd they are not getting anything signifcant , Orsinium was a solo player gmae even its new intance was geared for the solo player DB TG jesus those were supposed to be base game guilds that they canned and sold after to maximize profit. We got 2 trials and few dungeons in 3 years yes . TG, DB Orsinium was content for the single player casual/ churn player base that does not sub.

Zos can make content for both the true PVE crowd and the PVP crowd but it requires them investing money back into the game and i they are not willing to do that on a large scale. they are producing easy bake candy land content for the churn and barbiie doll player base.Its cheap and easy to make and creates great short term profit but does not equate longevity for a MMO.

You know wife....looking over your posting history you mainly just *** about the game and lay hate on ZoS....wouldn't it be better to find a game you like?

I mean it's pretty obvious the game offers nothing for you.

Pallio · January 2017

End game is no longer trails and stuff, just decorating houses.

Wifeaggro13 · January 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Here's the fundamental paradox of all video games, especially MMOs. If you design them solely for PvE content players will eventually complete it. "Theme park" games always peter out. The yearly churn of Call of Duty titles or other MMO models are clear indications of this.

Games which hold the most player attention are those where the content or dynamics are driven by the players themselves. This could be in the form of competition (e.g. League of Legends) or "sandbox" elements (e.g. Minecraft). Cyrodiil should have been this feature for ESO. Except that the developers made a choice to abandon Cyrodiil in favor of quarterly "content" dribbles.

Consider ESO in the following manner: no significant addition has been made to the Alliance War map in nearly 3 years. Yet players are still fighting on a daily basis. The only thing that changes in Cyrodiil is skill and item balance. The next patch has promise ZERO new content for PvP except a balance update -- and players are excited for it.

On the other hand, ESO has received numerous zone additions, dungeons, and quests... which are complete-able within hours of release. No matter how to plead or what is added to ESO, there will never be enough PvE content for you. It is simply impossible for a development team to create content as fast as players consume it.

Well this is not entirely true. its how much effort you put into the content. Arguably Eq2 when they released a Expac it had several layers to it. AA layer, 6 Dungeons tiering with a reasonable RNG loot table of legendary items that tiered up with diffculty, raids usally about 3 per expansion tiering as well. a large quest per class that would unlock an item that gained power through questing through dungeons and raiding, lots of faction questing , guild writs , new crafting tiers , new collections,level increase with new class abilities.,new starting zone and sometimes a new race. tons of solo questing. seriously if you were a casual player you would not be done with the content by the time the next expac released. if you were a hard core you had the raids on farm in about 5 months. most of the time they would release a small DLC in the middle for about 9.99 that was roughly the size of a ZOS DLC .These expansions cost alot though but they were almost a new game with all the features. amny other MMO's were able to Provide large scale content in those post launch time frames as well

Tradtionally sand box MMO's do not do as well, the only one that has really broken and held its core is Eve online. all the new ones bleed players right after launch. comparing games that are in the E sport category that are not persistent like LOL is just simply not fair and you can earn just about everything in LOL by actually playing the game purchasing things is for the instant gratification crowd.

As for PVP look the situation is this your getting shafted just like the tradtionally MMO pve crowd they are not getting anything signifcant , Orsinium was a solo player gmae even its new intance was geared for the solo player DB TG jesus those were supposed to be base game guilds that they canned and sold after to maximize profit. We got 2 trials and few dungeons in 3 years yes . TG, DB Orsinium was content for the single player casual/ churn player base that does not sub.

Zos can make content for both the true PVE crowd and the PVP crowd but it requires them investing money back into the game and i they are not willing to do that on a large scale. they are producing easy bake candy land content for the churn and barbiie doll player base.Its cheap and easy to make and creates great short term profit but does not equate longevity for a MMO.

You know wife....looking over your posting history you mainly just *** about the game and lay hate on ZoS....wouldn't it be better to find a game you like?

I mean it's pretty obvious the game offers nothing for you.

Because I have a right to be here I'm not breaking forum rules. I'm speaking truth and informing the history of this game and how it was developed.

You see I was a huge fan , I defended Zos quite a bit for a longtime. The game has just gotten worse, they care more for making a quick buck then the product they provide. All I'm doing is pointing out how corporate development games take advantage of their players. Sorry but Zos is actually going the route of EA with one of the best fantasy IP'S that's not a book or a movie. It's frustrating and disappointing

Katahdin · January 2017

@Belazarus

How many characters do you have?

Maybe start a new one, try a different class/spec combo like stam sorc or w/e and replay the content.I've also been here since beta, have 682CP, 12 max characters but not all have completed every zone and quest line so I still have tons to do just with those.

We dont need even more grind. We have enough already. They are adding another 4 motifs next month. I'm not even done getting Youkuden and draugr yet and I am sick of grinding motifs. Style motifs are pointless as it is because of the dropped and vendor sets that we can't change the style of being better than most crafted.

Belazarus · January 2017

@Katahdin

I have a few characters (Tank, Healer and DPS) and who are all maxed out, all quests done, all have "best in slot" gear, etc etc. Sure I could go and do all the achievements on all my characters, but that does become very repeatitive since I've already made all those achievements - again by doing that, it doesn't feel like you're making progress in the game, just re-visiting what you've already done.

I did explain, in quite some detail earlier, why I am not suggesting "more grind". All I'm suggesting is a robust, innovative reward system and ways to progress your main character when at "end-game", so that ZOS can retain more players in this awesome game, and not lose anyone from burn out. Many other games are achieving this very successfully, and I only want ESO to enjoy in that success too, and for more players to stay happy here in ESO

I've made a few suggestions of some models which have been successful, but there are PLENTY of other innovative ways to address the issue. I'm all about offering ideas & suggestions, not just "moaning" about stuff

Again, I want the game to succeed

letsdothedungeonslow · June 2017

Disclaimer : I have not gotten anywhere near the situation that the OP finds his self in... I'm only CP340 and have only completed one trial so far.

But I can see his point, and if in the future I end up where he is, I'm likely to share his criticism.

For me though, the solution would not be more grind but more content released more often. I don't believe that designing and making a single dungeon takes forever, once the toolkit for making them is already in place. If ZOS took all the time and effort they put into garbage like houses and crown crates and new *** clothing styles, and instead used it to bring Elsweyr and Summerset and other places into the game, with a focus on dungeons and trials rather than anything else, I think things would be going in the right direction.

We don't need more delves or quests. We do not need more motifs and furniture items. We need real gaming challenges and excitement.

People who pop up in the zone chart and complain that ESO isn't as fun as Skyrim...

People who LOVE purely decorative elements or extreme roleplaying....

These people already have everything they need.

But people who recognize that group dungeons are way more interesting (the first 50 times) than any dungeon in Skyrim or Oblivion will continue to want more of the same, and I don't think it's entitled or unreasonable to suggest that ZOS ought to satisfy them as a priority.

TLDR: what is ESO+ subs being spent on if not more group PvE content? And fixing and improving PvP?

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

letsdothedungeonslow wrote: »

Disclaimer : I have not gotten anywhere near the situation that the OP finds his self in... I'm only CP340 and have only completed one trial so far.

But I can see his point, and if in the future I end up where he is, I'm likely to share his criticism.

For me though, the solution would not be more grind but more content released more often. I don't believe that designing and making a single dungeon takes forever, once the toolkit for making them is already in place. If ZOS took all the time and effort they put into garbage like houses and crown crates and new *** clothing styles, and instead used it to bring Elsweyr and Summerset and other places into the game, with a focus on dungeons and trials rather than anything else, I think things would be going in the right direction.

We don't need more delves or quests. We do not need more motifs and furniture items. We need real gaming challenges and excitement.

People who pop up in the zone chart and complain that ESO isn't as fun as Skyrim...

People who LOVE purely decorative elements or extreme roleplaying....

These people already have everything they need.

But people who recognize that group dungeons are way more interesting (the first 50 times) than any dungeon in Skyrim or Oblivion will continue to want more of the same, and I don't think it's entitled or unreasonable to suggest that ZOS ought to satisfy them as a priority.

TLDR: what is ESO+ subs being spent on if not more group PvE content? And fixing and improving PvP?

You hit the nail on the head. But the answer is its cheaper and easier to make money of the casual barbie doll player then the player that plays the whole game and enjoys playing the game with other people. Right now Zos found their cow and has set to milking it dry

Appleblade · June 2017

I just start a new character.

MLGProPlayer · June 2017

I don't like progression in MMOs because it's artificial motivation. I will only play content for as long as I consider it fun. If it becomes a chore, I'm out. So more "progression" wouldn't motivate me personally.

What ZOS needs to do is just release more endgame content. They went 1.5 years between MoL and HoF. That's way too long of a period to go without a new trial. They said they're releasing another trial in Q4 this year, which is a good start, but they'll need to keep this pace up (2-3 trials a year is a good number).

More endgame overland content like Craglorn originally was would also be nice. The game is way too easy right now.

I'd also like to see dungeon leader boards. This would add another layer of competition to PvE.

MLGProPlayer · June 2017

Belazarus wrote: »

Hey everyone

Thanks for all your posts - so many I won't be able to directly respond to all of them haha. Nice to see it's not just me, and there are others feeling the same frustration.

The one thing I do want to clarify, is that I consider myself a VERY casual player I've never been a hardcore elite player, and indeed our guild pride ourselves on being casual care bears hehe. So my suggestions in my opening page are far from an "elitist" or "competitive" point of view.

In fact, the kind of systems I suggested, already exist in several MMO's and work very successfully - yes, for CASUAL players haha. The premise is very simple, you can play as little or as much as you like, and still make progress. Let's say you log in, do 1 or 2 dungeons, and a few quests - even if you don't actually complete the dungeons - you know that you'll still log off that night having earned a few "tokens" or a bit of "reputation", meaning that you have made real progress!

Sooner or later, you'll have enough tokens (or reputation) to purchase yourself a nice piece of gear, as you "gradually" work towards building your shiny new set of gear. So yeah, it could take you two to three weeks, before you have enough tokens to buy that nice pair of gloves, or it could take a couple of months, totally up to you as to how often you play the game. The beauty though is, regardless if you are a ultra casual, or super hardcore, either way you can still make progress.

Eventually you'll have earned enough, to complete the whole set of gear that you have been working towards, and that feeling is amazing. It doesn't depend on skill or anything, just purely the time you invest into playing the game, but EVERYONE has the opportunity to earn those tokens or reputation, quite easily (simply by doing dungeons, pledges, dailies, dolmens, etc etc).

And sure, you can say "well eventually you'll have earned enough tokens / rep to purchase all the gear you want, then you're back to square one..." But you see, the trick is to make the items expensive enough that actually, it WILL take time to have enough to buy each piece, meaning your progress is stretched over a period of time. Really, by the time you have earned enough to complete the full set of gear you're after, ZOS is releasing the NEXT sets, with ideally some new content (dungeons etc) though it's not even necessary, and you can start the next journey! And on it goes, it's a system which works great because there is a REAL incentive & reward to doing all the existing repeatable content.

It really isn't a reward system designed for just elite / competitive players, nor is it just a grind fest (every few days / weeks, you reach a point where you have enough to purchase that next vital piece, so it doesn't really feel like a grind). You can indeed put other cheaper things in those stores / vendors, so if you want to spend SOME of your tokens on , let's say an XP scroll, or other cool cosmetics, then you can - done correctly, it really doesn't feel like a grind at all, and also does not require any level of skill to earn. It's just a fun way of rewarding people for doing all the awesome existing content.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm ALL for "actual new content" too ! But my point was, we just need more of an incentive right now, to enjoy the content that exists, while we wait for the next big DLC.

And in response to all those who have suggested I'm wanting to change the game into something hardcore, elitist, grindy, non-casual, etc etc. These suggestions I made, are just suggestions, based on seeing them working really successfully in other MMO's. They wouldn't "change" the game in my view, they would "add" to the game and help keep more end-game players engaged longer term

As to the point that some of you have made, that ESO isn't really an MMO, but rather designed as a Elder Scrolls Role Playing Game that you can play with others, and therefore the reward systems I'm suggesting have no place in ESO - then fair enough. I think that would be a huge shame though, as there are a LOT of MMO players in ESO, and I just know that with some simple additions, we can keep both TES and MMO fans happy.

Thanks again for all the views comments and suggestions, keep them coming

Kindly
Bel

GW2 is a game with zero endgame progression and even less endgame content than ESO and it's been the second most popular MMO on the market for nearly 5 years now. Progress isn't needed if there is enough content and the content is fun. If you need "incentive" to play a game, then maybe you're just bored of the game and need to take a break, or find a new game. Nothing wrong with that. No game is meant to last forever.

ArchMikem · June 2017

Nearly 6 month necro post.

Honestly this was an inevitable problem with no real solution, only bandaid fixes in the form of additional content which will always be exhausted eventually. You cant be captivated indefinitely with this stuff. Replayability can only go so far. ZOS can give you a terrabyte of content, but eventually you'll do it all and come up with the same problem the OP states.

Jaazer · June 2017

I like this idea:

Token / Currency system for PvE (similar to Tel Var)

But please, no reputation faction grinds!!!

Iccotak · June 2017

I'll say one of my recommendations from the past.
Introduce Naval combat for both PvE and Alliance War

GeorgeBlack · June 2017

@Belazarus

I've read your linked topic and this one as well. Did you play Lineage II, Tera Online and tried Black Desert?

I agree that ZOS needs guild activities.
I can also see that you are not after ladderboard competition, or repetitive farming for a Trait, but you actually want MEANINGFUL group activities for which players would have to form guilds or join them.

Cyrodiil is a big battleground and it's objectives are being completed by ConstantParties (CP) rather than guilds. PvE is so easy since it's instanced and the only end game activities are who can do it faster AGAIN.

I think ZOS should start looking into Open World DLCs in which there are no instances and PvP is essential to securing PvE rewards such as world bosses and hunting grounds. Separate channel should serve people that don't want to PvP. However PvErs would have to face the fact that other PvErs can take their mobs and there's nothing they can do about it PvPers would have to be good at PvP in order to secure their rewards.

@ZOS check out topics like these.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

@ MLGProPlayer
Well Though i agree with some things you have said in this thread. your source of information is highly subjective and opinion based. GW2 won't even rank on some publications and ESO is not even on the radar for 2017 for publications like PC Gamer. GW2 is a fun leveling game but not a permanent player home. most of its player base is content release then it goes to sleep . That is a large reason why Lineage will be the top performer for NC soft investor reports beating out GW2 a lot of times, that tells me the Asian markets are bigger than western markets for their games. My opinion of GW2 it, was lots of fun well designed for leveling, but horrid i mean horrid group gameplay dynamics. ESO is a far superior game to it in my opinion and im no longer a fan of ESO. content needs to be fun and engaging and it needs rewards you may not like rewards but many people who play end game do . though i am not a huge fan of key locking progression it would teach the community of solo players that just light attacked their way from 1 through 50 and max cp how to play in a group environment instead of coming to the forum to scream how VROM and VCOS need a nerf. Just because they cannot 4 man DPS their way through the mechanics like all the other dungeons.as far as designed to last forever no they are desinged to have a 10 year lifespan thats industry standard many dont even make it that long and some far exceed that. http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/11/ncsofts-q1-2017-financials-show-tumbles-for-lineage-guild-wars-2-plus-new-leadership-for-lineage-eternal/

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Belazarus

I've read your linked topic and this one as well. Did you play Lineage II, Tera Online and tried Black Desert?

I agree that ZOS needs guild activities.
I can also see that you are not after ladderboard competition, or repetitive farming for a Trait, but you actually want MEANINGFUL group activities for which players would have to form guilds or join them.

Cyrodiil is a big battleground and it's objectives are being completed by ConstantParties (CP) rather than guilds. PvE is so easy since it's instanced and the only end game activities are who can do it faster AGAIN.

I think ZOS should start looking into Open World DLCs in which there are no instances and PvP is essential to securing PvE rewards such as world bosses and hunting grounds. Separate channel should serve people that don't want to PvP. However PvErs would have to face the fact that other PvErs can take their mobs and there's nothing they can do about it PvPers would have to be good at PvP in order to secure their rewards.

@ZOS check out topics like these.

They have one called Imperial city the problem is the rewards suck and many many early CP exploiters got the drop in there and were near unkillable.Then linking the reward system to DPS performance and nothing else made killing the main boss in their pointless to a lot of people telvar stones were easily accomplished and with in a months everyone had the sets that were very usefull for certain PVP builds and not much else.

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

Progression has never been a ESO priority. Mostly because it just seems like the team cant make the content fast enough considering how the dev cycles are.

Barring that, this game has never been built for it. It was originally built as a PVP game and any PVE endgame content has usually been held back. My advice is just to find a better game for endgame progression.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Progression has never been a ESO priority. Mostly because it just seems like the team cant make the content fast enough considering how the dev cycles are.

Barring that, this game has never been built for it. It was originally built as a PVP game and any PVE endgame content has usually been held back. My advice is just to find a better game for endgame progression.

you always keep saying it was built as a pve game and pvp. but nowhere have they ever said that matter o fact cyrodil was not built until way after the PVE zones were done .lol i was in phase 1 closed followed the development religiously. listened to every podcast read ever insider dev article. The damn release trailer probably started that thinking lol but they never once billed the game as pure anything. they said it would be a game for everyone from day 1 , Paul Sage and Matt always billed the game as such PVE PVP and the casual soloist.

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Progression has never been a ESO priority. Mostly because it just seems like the team cant make the content fast enough considering how the dev cycles are.

Barring that, this game has never been built for it. It was originally built as a PVP game and any PVE endgame content has usually been held back. My advice is just to find a better game for endgame progression.

you always keep saying it was built as a pve game. but nowhere have they ever said that matter o fact cyrodil was not built until way after the PVE zones were done .lol i was in phase 1 closed followed the development religiously. listened to every podcast read ever insider dev article. The damn release trailer probably started that thinking lol but they never once billed the game as pure anything. they said it would be a game for everyone from day 1 , Paul Sage and Matt always billed the game as such PVE PVP and the casual soloist.

I keep saying it is a PVP game. Dunno if this is a typo or you misunderstanding, but this is allways what i've called it.

There is evidence for this considering PVE had almost no repeatable content on release. No pledges, no anything. Veteran content was a long slog that served only to prepare one of the only form of repeatable content available, PVP. What's more, the softcaps and the DPS/resource regen limits that provided were very much PVP focused.

PVP was a focus on release. PVE was only even given consideration later. Paul sage and Matt may have billed the game as a bloody VR experience for all I care, but what it was, was a PVP game. That's not changed very much considering most of the balance changes from Dark brotherhood onward have been PVP focused. At the very best, PVE has been given a passing glance.

They said it was for 'everyone', and they lied. Or so horribly mismanaged the game that it became slanted. Eitherway, it matters not.

Bombashaman · June 2017

Maybe OP should do some roleplaying? This is mmoRPG, after all.

Archmadios · June 2017

Not sure if this has been mentioned but id bring in all the daedric princes, put some shines in the World for each, give them all an oblivion plain and a reputation system. Each of them would require different in Game activities to level, hell give them all a skill line. Make the player ultimately pick one god to devote themselves to link it to an ultimate passive and tie it into battlegrounds. The options are endless.

Raeph · June 2017

Here is the problem as I see it:

If they put in systems that are difficult enough to obtain that players such as yourself have long term goals, then it will be unrealistically obtainable by players who don't put in the same extreme amounts of time. That's an overwhelmingly large majority of the playerbase. I think that you must know you're on the far end of the bell curve here.

I'm not saying that I don't want you to feel you have things to do, but ZOS has to look at their development resources logistically and determine if the cost benefit of catering to a small fraction of the playerbase makes sense.

This is a historically difficult problem for MMOs. Developing content for players who devote an extreme amount of time and effort into the game is neigh impossible, as they tend to never be satisfied.

This is why PvP exists in MMOs. It's something that isn't as reliant on content and evolving systems to be replayable.

I guess what I'm ultimately saying is that it is not a problem that is as easily fixed as you believe it to be. Whatever they do, they are going to *** someone off.

NotNormanBates · July 2017

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Belazarus wrote: »

Thanks guys - some really valuable contributions here!

Hey Bel! Big fan or your podcast.

I agree with a lot of what your'e saying, I honestly think that the mindset in most MMo's is Raid centric or PVE centric, and that just to me doesn't fit what Elder scrolls is and while I agree the devs should look at the elder game a lot of great points have been brought up on this thread aside from taking a break, I just don't think you should have to do that if you're in a game you love.

I am trying different class combos crafting and getting ready for housing, I am also bringing more people into the game and helping them out, I think community building is fun and it balances out a lot of the negativity you see especially on the forums.

I'm not a fan at all of data mining but the cats out of the bag that we have a lot to look forward to, I think this game is going places and is going to be around a long time, guilds like yours is a big part of what makes this community great.

Hope this helps and Take care.

The problem with the Data minning crowd is its all hype. they are spoutung these massive content updates but it goes against what the Director has said. he has already stated the Game is more of a online RPG with a focus on smaller content updates as dlc.

You may see the warden class , but we for sure know Matt has abondoned the MMO part of the game after Paul left . Paul was the only Lead dev that spoke of MMO content. so we can expect smaller single player solo centric DLC's with story over a tradtional expansion. That type of expansion would have level cap increases, new class abilites, more engaging end game dungeons and trials. the group content they do add will be more a long the Tam one stuff. No roles , face roll dungeons with a horrid RNG on traits, and 2 modes of trial Face roll easy, and challenging traditional type dynamic with heavy dps centric fights.

People are trying to spout the data mining as gospel and its not. at the raste which zos produces content its a solid 6 months sometimes a year out from when they announce it. and seeing how they have not announced anything but housing. your looking at a long stretch before you see any content. If they do do a big Expansion it will not be what people expect thats for sure. they will do warden class and orsinium sized solo centric content patch and charge way to much for it.

......... You should be a fortune teller.

SoLooney · July 2017

While achieving everything would lead into boredom, the other problem is horrible rng. Yes, running dungeoms and trials 100s of times just to get armor and even worse, weapons in the right set in the right trait is frustrating enough.

ZOS took a horrible path to keep players interested in doing end game content, by doing the same crap over and over and over again just to maybe get a moondancer staff sharpened or those vicious ophidian daggers. Not fun. on top of that, theres no real profit in doing vet trials. sure you get some plunder, still not worth it. Make some gold jewelry BoE drop from final bosses many months ago. At least reward players and not get frustrated cause they got a crappy weapon and some plunder.