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Okay, Why Is Everyone Running DBoS?
Ch4mpTW
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Is there something that I'm missing, where as damn near every single build is using this in PvP? I've seen everything from SpamBlades to MagSorcs running it. JabPlars to HealDens. Is DBoS really overperforming so much that it is pretty much mandatory?
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Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dbos?
Dawnbreaker of Smiting. The Fighter's Guild ultimate that does physical damage, has a knock down, and provides slightly higher damage than the other morph (Flawless Dawnbreaker). It's supposedly the "PvP morph", as FD is the "PvE morph".
But my question is, what is so appealing about DBoS that so many builds are running it. Clearly it is overperforming, as there would be no other logical reason to use it over elemental-based or magicka-based ultimates. This is of course assuming the person in question is utilizing a magicka-based build to begin with. Therefore my logic is that there must be something players are exploiting, to make them want to use it over a more appropriate and matching skill. Whether it be that DBoS is allowing free damage due to a type of animation cancel, or something. What it is, I don't know. But I do know that it appears to me that the vast majority of people are using it in PvP environments (battlegrounds, Cyrodiil, and duels).Edited by Ch4mpTW on June 24, 2017 8:29AM1 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its because its gives very good damage plus a knockdown and can hit multiple targets as its a cone but stamblades incap is better.1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dawn breaker of smiting
Well its cheap, good damage, aoe and knocks down.
That still doesn't make too much sense for a MagSorc shield stalker, or MagPlar to utilize it over Eye of the Storm, Overload, Meteor, that cheap-costing Templar ultimate, etc. And I definitely do NOT recall seeing that skill as prevalent in the past as I do now. So clearly something new was introduced, or discovered. Not that many people would flock it to otherwise. We have to remember that ESO's PvP scene is based on the "meta" for the most part, with bits and pieces of exploitation and squeezing out as much bit of damage as possible.0 -
Teridaxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dawn breaker of smiting
Well its cheap, good damage, aoe and knocks down.
That still doesn't make too much sense for a MagSorc shield stalker, or MagPlar to utilize it over Eye of the Storm, Overload, Meteor, that cheap-costing Templar ultimate, etc. And I definitely do NOT recall seeing that skill as prevalent in the past as I do now. So clearly something new was introduced, or discovered. Not that many people would flock it to otherwise. We have to remember that ESO's PvP scene is based on the "meta" for the most part, with bits and pieces of exploitation and squeezing out as much bit of damage as possible.
With the sustain nerfs i assume vampires are more common now.1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dawn breaker of smiting
Well its cheap, good damage, aoe and knocks down.
That still doesn't make too much sense for a MagSorc shield stalker, or MagPlar to utilize it over Eye of the Storm, Overload, Meteor, that cheap-costing Templar ultimate, etc. And I definitely do NOT recall seeing that skill as prevalent in the past as I do now. So clearly something new was introduced, or discovered. Not that many people would flock it to otherwise. We have to remember that ESO's PvP scene is based on the "meta" for the most part, with bits and pieces of exploitation and squeezing out as much bit of damage as possible.
With the sustain nerfs i assume vampires are more common now.
While true, I still find that very odd and peculiar. A person utilizing Destro/Resto and is entirely magicka and spell damage built, would sacrifice something which does elemental and or magicka-based damage for something that does physical damage. All because it is: Cheap costing, does higher damage to undead and werewolves, has knockback, and does fairly decent damage. There has to be some sort of cheese involved. Has to be. Wherher it be players being able to animation cancel with smoothly or something. I know it. I know this. ESO PvP is based in cheesing. People gravitate to the cheese, in order to gain a competitive advantage.
I'll figure it out sooner or later, but figured I'd bring it up here in the forums to see if I could get a direct and detailed explanation behind it.0 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Using ultimates of the opposite element (magic damage for a stam build & vice versa) is less of an issue, since the increased damage for phys or elem / magic damage is now capped at 15% instead of 25%. In non-CP, you don't even have a difference with those.
Also, ultimates scale with your maximum stats, be it spell damage, weapon damage, maximum stamina or else, regardless of damage type.
The only good reason to use ultimates specifically of your element is penetration, as magic damage still scales with magic penetration. Not an issue in all cases, since Sharpened increases both magic & physical penetration, and some abilities apply both major breach and major fracture.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
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RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭DBOS is instant, has good damage, a stun, a low cost and is undodgeable/unrefectable. It allow some really good burst.
Overload can be reflected and don't have the control, along as being highly foreseeable.
Meteor has a telegraph (so is blocked 99% of the time), does his dot damage as ground based (so can be avoided easily) and cost more.
Templar's ultimate does less damage (slightly more for stam morph if I remember), but without stun.
Eye of the storm has an enormous telegraph and no control, and cost way more.
And with Morrowind, mostly everyone who were at +25% physical or magicka damage now have +10% only (or 0% in no-cp pvp). For magicka players, the damage loss over a magicka ultimate is negligible comparing to all the advantages.4 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Using ultimates of the opposite element (magic damage for a stam build & vice versa) is less of an issue, since the increased damage for phys or elem / magic damage is now capped at 15% instead of 25%. In non-CP, you don't even have a difference with those.
Also, ultimates scale with your maximum stats, be it spell damage, weapon damage, maximum stamina or else, regardless of damage type.
The only good reason to use ultimates specifically of your element is penetration, as magic damage still scales with magic penetration. Not an issue in all cases, since Sharpened increases both magic & physical penetration, and some abilities apply both major breach and major fracture.
Note that LA still gives spell penetration though.
Then again in my experience most LA builds (sorcs and NBs) run Soul assault.Jo'Khaljor0 -
Caza99✭✭✭✭I used DBoS last patch on my magplar and magsorc because the alternatives weren't working well for me.
- Meteor was easily countered, resulting in a wasted ult 90% of the time.
- I really hated the destro ultimate.
- Overload was too clunky to use and often got me killed.
- People just ran away from my Atronach, so that was pointless.
- I didn't find the templar sweep ultimate to be worth using.
- Soul Assault left me vulnerable.
DBoS gave me a stun, went through dodge roll, is an instant cast, is fairly cheap, and still hit for some decent damage despite being physical damage.
This patch though I've mostly been using the Resto ultimate for my magsorc.
(And afaik, DBoS was working off spell pen last patch rather than physical which was fixed in Morrowind I believe)PC NA - @MercerESO3 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ahhhhh. So now the meat and potatoes to why it is that DBoS is so common are coming to the surface. I see, I see... I knew that there were specific reasons, as it's always about min-maxing in a competitive environment. Always that cheese and what not. Great responses, everyone. Pretty insightful stuff.0 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is 0 warning that a DBoS is coming. So it's basically a guaranteed CC and heavy hit (and dot) against any build that isn't permablocking or already CC immune.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CP's and campaigns changes ,lot of people running vampire now and non CP battlegrounds . DBoS is cheap deals nice instant AoE dmg plus strong DoT later and AoE stun. It's instant cast cone so people dont roll dodge it. What would You want more from perfect ultimate ?Edited by Juhasow on June 24, 2017 9:53AM1 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭also extra 20 percent damage against vampires- which is like 70 percent of cyrodil - and all magicka builds pretty much.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dawn breaker of smiting
Well its cheap, good damage, aoe and knocks down.
That still doesn't make too much sense for a MagSorc shield stalker, or MagPlar to utilize it over Eye of the Storm, Overload, Meteor, that cheap-costing Templar ultimate, etc. And I definitely do NOT recall seeing that skill as prevalent in the past as I do now. So clearly something new was introduced, or discovered. Not that many people would flock it to otherwise. We have to remember that ESO's PvP scene is based on the "meta" for the most part, with bits and pieces of exploitation and squeezing out as much bit of damage as possible.
1) Only a few magsorcs and magplars run Dawnbreaker of Smithing, not all of them. They run it because it's cheap and the knock down effect is so good to burst people down.
2) Some people don't want to run destro ult and beam of doom because they don't want to run something that is OP.
3) Cheap Templar ult doesn't knock people down.
4) Meteor is hard to time with frag proc (magsorc's CC) so you mostly see magDK and Magplar running it.
5) Killing people with Overload is cheesy. It works if you Xv1, not so much in a fair fight.
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dawn breaker of smiting
Well its cheap, good damage, aoe and knocks down.
That still doesn't make too much sense for a MagSorc shield stalker, or MagPlar to utilize it over Eye of the Storm, Overload, Meteor, that cheap-costing Templar ultimate, etc. And I definitely do NOT recall seeing that skill as prevalent in the past as I do now. So clearly something new was introduced, or discovered. Not that many people would flock it to otherwise. We have to remember that ESO's PvP scene is based on the "meta" for the most part, with bits and pieces of exploitation and squeezing out as much bit of damage as possible.
With the sustain nerfs i assume vampires are more common now.
While true, I still find that very odd and peculiar. A person utilizing Destro/Resto and is entirely magicka and spell damage built, would sacrifice something which does elemental and or magicka-based damage for something that does physical damage. All because it is: Cheap costing, does higher damage to undead and werewolves, has knockback, and does fairly decent damage. There has to be some sort of cheese involved. Has to be. Wherher it be players being able to animation cancel with smoothly or something. I know it. I know this. ESO PvP is based in cheesing. People gravitate to the cheese, in order to gain a competitive advantage.
I'll figure it out sooner or later, but figured I'd bring it up here in the forums to see if I could get a direct and detailed explanation behind it.
lol dude, it's just the knock down effect. Get over it. Ults are scaled off of your max stat (whether it's mag, stam or even health) so you only lose the 10-15% extra damage from Elemental Expert CPs.Edited by hmsdragonfly on June 24, 2017 3:55PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To bad it´s bugged at the moment and can be dodged by rolling or using shuffle :P1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dude.... Ultimates scale with your highest stats. The only thing that changes is the scaling with Mighty and Elemental Expert. Since we have a new CP star Master-At-Arms and since both Mighty and Elemental Expert are only 15% (as opposed to 25% previously) this ultimate does more damage in general than last patch.
There is no cheese involved, stop your conspiracy theories.
Magicka Sorcs have always been using DBoS since there's no magicka ultimate that is cheap, instant damage, knockback and AoE and allows you to land your Frag reliably while the dude is stunned making for insane burst: Curse, DBoS, Endless Fury and Frags. Same thing for Templars and Wardens, its the knockdown. Its fairly logical to use it on stamina builds because its one of the only stamina ultimates out there that does instant AoE damage.Edited by Izaki on June 24, 2017 11:15AM@ Izaki #PCEU
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#Stamblade1 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Ults scale off max stat.
Magicka classes have no equivalent to DBOS. All the magicka ults suck, so they use DBOS. I use DBOS for the instant CC it gives, the damage is complete garbage now for magicka builds that they fixed the penetration issue. So yeah, I just use basic abilities and just use DBOS for an extra CC cause magicka users have it rough in terms of ults.2 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magplars benefit from it in the sense that it's a reliable stun in most cases. Poor templars got no viable cc.Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
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Keep_Door✭✭✭✭✭Because its good.......? Most classes are limited in good ultimates.
Are you trying to get it nerfed ..? If so you can just leave now.
As a stam warden who has realized his bear is just useless this is all i have. Get out ... get out now.1
