Kay1 wrote: »

aToken wrote: »

I have been playing since launch. What does this matter?

You clearly not, or you are maybe not very smart.

Actually is the first time I see a thread complaining about cloak, it have so many counters, I think is the skill with most counters in the game.

By how you explain it and how pissed off you look you are a Xv1r and you faced a good Nightblade, some people go solo and they can't fight a zerg so they tend to run, thats why he was "spamming" it because the only thing that have no counter besides Soul Assault in this game is Zerging.

I suggest you to learn to play PvP after 3 years into this game and get an AoE or detec pots, applying a DoT also helps or maybe be more fair-play and let them escape.

After 3 years, come on now.

KingJ wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Anyone who still thinks Stamvlade doesn't have the advantage over magsorc, just hasn't learned to pay their NB yet for this patch.

Yea stack proc sets and you can kill any sorc.Remove proc sets what advantage does A NB have over a sorc.Magic or stam version?

Build for sustain, use procs for DMG. Burst, ani-cancel with rolldodge into cloak.
Burst again from stealth from behind or the side of the sorc, into rolldodge/cloak.
By the time he turns to target you, you're already dodge-rolling/cloaking.

With a sorcs standard open-world skill layout, he will not hit you. He won't even land that curse for it to pull you out of stealth.

Yo won't get through a sorcs shields either, but run an oblivion enchant and you're forcing him to spam expensive shields AND heals to survive your burst. If you can go into proper stealth at some point after cloaking, or los/hide - you can keep him burning resources for a while while you sit and recover mag..

Keep him shield-stacking in anticipation of burst and you will run him out of resources.

@Biro123 you didn't answer my question at all because we all know the answer none. Like I said without proc sets which you mentioned in your post what advantage does a NB have over a sorc.I know how to kill sorc.

Let's look at your scenario I'm assuming this starting as a gank,from the NB, if its not a gank it go like this. While you do your first roll dodge into cloak that sorc would have hit you with curse during the roll dodge animation undodgeable. Unless he indept he can turn fast enough to curse you while roll dodging. Curse will still go off and break your cloak.This all happens during your first roll animation cancel into cloak. Don't for get all the other abilities that Stamblades use that cost magic shades and Fear.In a fight against a sorc I'm gonna try to CC him with my best CC in the game.So they can't do 3-4 in a row unless they forgo CC and Shades.

When a curse hit you it deal serious damage and break your cloak.This morning I was hit with a 7.5k Curse and a 7k Endless fury in a BG match. No one had the power sigil it wasn't up yet.Yea curse hurts and unless the sorc doesn't know what he doing you will get hit by one.

Oblivion enchants deal 1k damage every 4 seconds.That 1k damage through your shield really gonna hurt you. Even you stated I haven't bursted through your shields so you have full health or close to it so you are only using Harness and hardened. No need to use Healing unless your low health.This is open world sooner or later one of our allies will come and end this fight.So running and hiding buys more time for his allies to come.

You're right, I didn't answer your question. I just chose your to reply to from a number of others who seemed to think that NB is still the underdog.

Honestly, I want meaning to complain because I do think that NB should be a fairly hard counter to a light-armoured sorc, and I think that's where it is now if played well, which is good. Needing proc sets for that to be the case isn't great, but I honestly can't see them going anywhere, so I don't see much point in pretending or wishing they weren't there.

But on some of your points, yeah, its easy enough to target a dodger at range with curse, not so up close when the dodges are constantly used to put them behind you. That gives a very limited time to acquire the target before they cloak... Chances are, you're re-shielding first too, since you just lost them from the burst, so have an even smaller window to do damage.
Also some have been complaining about targeting bugs lately, which could be playing a part.

Oblivion enchants are surprisingly strong against sorcs, who tend to see some lost health, but good shields and think it just must have been some overspill damage, so ignore it thinking they are OK. Next thing they are almost half health without realising it and vulnerable to a burst combo putting them in execute range.. Then they start blowing a LOT of magical on expensive heals... That's where their strength is, is sneaky v damage without really getting noticed, and then extra pressure on their magica pool.

I mean I can see where cloak is weak when there's a lot of stuff going on, with plenty of aoes etc, But its very strong in the right circumstances.

aToken wrote: »

Thread wasn't made for gankers or burst damage. It was made for players who recklessly spam cloak everytime it's broken. Magelight only works for magic. Casting on Stam is too expensive. Detect pots don't prevent you from re cloaking. Thus the spamming of cloak continues

Mage Light is not expensive for stamina nightblades. It costs like 3k magicka. Considering most stamina nightblades run cloak, fear anyway... you should have enough magicka regen to use it.

I for one have actually spec'd into quiet a lot of magicka regen so i can run efficient purge and be more efficient in group play. I have 1750 magicka and stamina recovery. Still pulling 36k hp and 32k stamina with viper and seleane. Its a monster build.

I have though decided to run piercing mark after the over abundance of nightblades on console. Considering my high hp pool on my build it just makes sense to use. I could careless if i get hate whispers for using a good class ability.

aToken wrote: »

I still see alot claims of a so many counters to cloak. A counter would prevent a nb from immediately stealthing again or stun them. Anything other than revealing them. Attacks made from stealth crit and/or stun a player simply from being in stealth. Only flare or magelight will stop a nb from re cloaking or stun them. Magicka only. leaving nothing for stam. Aside from that part. Slotting a skill for only countering one class in the game is rediculous. Other classes had there "OP" pvp skills nerfed its time for nbs to get the same dose. Although if my my main spamable was getting nurfed i suppose i would cry as well.

@aToken Cloak has been nerfed multiple times.For the first Year of the Game it didn't work at all.Then it worked for a few patches than they removed the purged and every since then it's been buggy as hell and barely works.You know how stam can counter cloak do this gap close them.Every Time you Gap close them their cloak will break every time.If you're a stam sorc hurricane will break cloak,If you're a stamplar Jabs will break cloak even purge will break it,Stamdk Poison breath breaks cloak plus votive armor will also break cloak.What more do you need?For cloak to just not work like it did for the last 2 +years?

Also stam has a version of magelight Camo Hunter it gives you major savagery and weapon damage.Also you know why a Nb always cloaking its the only way for them to have a decent heal.

Honestly the biggest counter to cloak is a detect potion and it is available to all classes. We have terrible heals outside of cloak and are really weak on the defensive pop a pot and keep the pressure on and we fold like paper.

As a class we're dependent on one ability (unless in heavy but eww) and it's negated by a simple potion jesus guys.

Wow another nerf this thread, learn to play instead of copy and paste and complain

Yikes you would not want to battle me.

Good luck pulling me out of stealth.

WAIT A SECOND, CLOAK ACTUALLY WORKS?!?!?! Show me how please!

Magelight sucks now, they should to revert it back to what it was, when it actually worked just by slotting it. It is stupid enough to require someone waste a spot on their bar to counter one class. I remember when people complained about dodge-rollers so they made it cost more with repeated use, same with streak. Now they need to give cloak the same treatment.

Increase detect pot duration to the full 45 seconds. I think it's only at 15 seconds.

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Increase detect pot duration to the full 45 seconds. I think it's only at 15 seconds.

Its used to be that and its broke.

If you fail to kill them within 16.5s (full alchemy passives) thats on you.

To be honest, part of the problem is proc sets are ruling cyrodiil at the moment and a procblade has virtually infinite sustain to spam cloak and roll dodge. Will probably be a little better if proc sets are properly dealt with (read: not used anymore) and stamblades are forced to spec more into actual damage stats.

That said, all the cloak counters in the game carry significant drawbacks and/or are very unreliable. If cloak has to stay like it is, they need to do something about that. And don't give me any crap about it being 'fine'... I can see how balanced it is when Im on my own procblade and almost nothing can touch me. Stamblades are on a different level this update.

Atm a stamblade can just run circles around a stam DK, to give an example. Your only real option is to use a detect pot (which is risky because you actually need the sustain this update) just to have a chance at fighting back at all. Evil Hunter is terrible with its' 6m radius. Pre-Morrowind crit rush and flames of oblivion both uncloaked NBs but those 2 abilities got "fixed".

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Magelight sucks now, they should to revert it back to what it was, when it actually worked just by slotting it. It is stupid enough to require someone waste a spot on their bar to counter one class. I remember when people complained about dodge-rollers so they made it cost more with repeated use, same with streak. Now they need to give cloak the same treatment.

There is a reason they can't do it . When you hit steak or dodge roll you are guaranteed to get some sort of value. Cloak not so much. if it's countered are they going to refund the magicka used to cast it? If not then there is no reason to add a cost increase to the ability when all i have to do is pop a detect pot and i can counter multiple peoples stealth at one time.

Not really. You could and still can just spam a gab closer on someone using streak, and channels on dodge.

Yet they both do what they are mean't to

Streak you still stun and make distance to some players

Dodge you still dodge some attacks.

If you get brought out of cloak you've lost the entire effect.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Magelight sucks now, they should to revert it back to what it was, when it actually worked just by slotting it. It is stupid enough to require someone waste a spot on their bar to counter one class. I remember when people complained about dodge-rollers so they made it cost more with repeated use, same with streak. Now they need to give cloak the same treatment.

There is a reason they can't do it . When you hit steak or dodge roll you are guaranteed to get some sort of value. Cloak not so much. if it's countered are they going to refund the magicka used to cast it? If not then there is no reason to add a cost increase to the ability when all i have to do is pop a detect pot and i can counter multiple peoples stealth at one time.

Not really. You could and still can just spam a gab closer on someone using streak, and channels on dodge.

Yet they both do what they are mean't to

Streak you still stun and make distance to some players

Dodge you still dodge some attacks.

If you get brought out of cloak you've lost the entire effect.

There is a thing called CC immunity, and you can simply break free and gab close before the sorc can cast another streak. I doesn't even stun when you're behind the sorc and he's streaking away, he needs to streak trough you. I love it when they streak away, It just gives me a fight against a sorc with no magicka left. Pre nerf it was a problem as it's a cheap skill and most sorcs have more magicka/ regen and can simply outlast the person gab closing, but that has been long ago.

Cloak still gives you a guarenteed crit or damage reduction, so it's the same as streak and dodge, and you can still break channels like Soul Assault with it.

Well good NB will trick you anyway, shadowy image and cloak combo, there is no other counter for this than 2 ppl, one pushing NB and the other guarding the image. Against casual NBs (they are the majority) I use elemental blockade or sweeps, and thats all, not only they are pulled out stealth, they try to reaply it, which drains them of magica faster + it damages them. Yes mage light is more reliable but ground aoes have their pros to.
Thats why I think cloak should remain untouched. The only change if any, could be something like deacrease of cloak cost but add slight cost increase when used before effect ends (not as high as with streak). This way NBs who use cloak as a tactic tool would benefit, also the ones who use it 3-4 times in a row would see no difference or slight buff, but those whe like to spam it endlessly would get nerfed.