Do you think ZOS will admit they made a mistake?

rootimus · June 2017

The best response you're likely to get is something along the lines of "you know you don't have to sustain here, right?".

Smmokkee · June 2017

I had to change the consumable I was using.. That's about it aside from other very minimal gains. Still play the same way.

jircris11 · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain? So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun". PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

What do you think, will they admit the made a mistake and revert the sustain changes or are they so stubborn to admit they made a mistake and try to adjust the game over the sustain nerfs and fail miserably?

there is nothing wrong wit the changes they made. Most effected are people who where using FOTM builds that made them never have to worry about management. Now that its gone people have to actually manage their pools and have no clue how to do it properly. Personally I am having zero issue with it, it simply took some getting use to.

newtinmpls · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain?

Oh...and here I thought you were talking about removing softcaps

SanTii.92 · June 2017

Nope, not a mistake.

Anhedonie · June 2017

I play magDK. We didn't have sustain for years now. Still don't have it.

Arthmoor · June 2017

The way people preached this was the end of the world and all, I expected to be completely impotent in combat and unable to do anything because I'd be out of magicka in 2 seconds.

Turns out, the opposite happened and I'm actually doing a bit MORE damage than before and my rate of magicka drain hasn't changed one bit. Either I'm the luckiest lizard alive, or things are not the doom & gloom scenario everyone said it would be.

Mistake? IMO, I see no mistake here. Game feels and plays to me like it always has.

ShadowHvo · June 2017

Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun.

And I mean it.

DjMuscleboy02 · June 2017

Anhedonie wrote: »

I play magDK. We didn't have sustain for years now. Still don't have it.

I main a magdk and, in trials at least, I have absolutely no problem sustaining. In fact, I rarely drop below 50% magic and that's if I mess up.

Sustain isn't bad this patch, it's a l2p issue.

JKorr · June 2017

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

What difference does it make to you? The game is incredibly annoying to play without a sub according to you. You were leaving after ZOS "forced" you to buy a character slot to make a warden. ZOS is driving new player away because the quests aren't organized. Then you claimed you deleted the game back in April because of the "horrible direction the game was going, also the excessive obvious greed over actually making the game better."

If the game is such a pos that offends your every sensibility, all the changes/everything is nerfed to ruin the whole universe, and the devs/ZOS are greedy money grubbing sellouts, why are you still here complaining, instead of leaving to find a game you actually enjoy?

Wow are you stalking me or something? do i need to be worried?

You've brought up some of my old posts the even i forgot about like the quest organization one.

Anyways in response to your constant attacks to my posts, I don't hate the game its actuall my favorite mmo, but ZOS keeps pushing my limit to the point where i quit. I decided to come back to see if I actually misjudged them, but turns out I didn't.

I would really like this game to be at its max potential, but ZOS are are making it worse over time.

There are many here, who are near senseless when it comes to quality. You could feed them cardboard and they'd gnaw on it for days without complaint. Replace the cardboard with redwood bark and they'd continue the mindless grind without a thought their own. These types make superb customers

That said, I also check back with badly reviewed products, to see if they've made any improvements over time. I do this with Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Google, HTC, Sprint, Time Warner/Spectrum, Verizon, Chevy/GMC, Nissan, Toyota, the Battlefield series and most Bethesda published games. If a company screws up often enough and consistently, then they lose my business entirely, including the next generation of my family, because we give 110% and expect 110%.

ESO has massive potential but they're only putting out 60% and that's all focused on Crown Store and misnomer DLC.

I appreciate quality; I don't have all the same problems with the game that some players seem to have, however. I pve 99.99% of the time. Because of my playing style I don't seem to have the OMG THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE BECAUSE NERFS EVERYWHERE thing that many are having problems with. My stamina characters are not instantly dying. I'm still having fun playing. I do post on the forums. Some issues will be noticed if enough wailing and gnashing of teeth occurs. But when I have major issues/problems with changes in the game, I use /feedback to present the issues I'm not happy with. People who might be able to actually *do* something about it see the /feedback. Constantly creating ZOS STINKS/SUCKS/GREEDY/RUINING THE GAME BECAUSE STUFF I DON'T LIKE isn't exactly constructive criticism for improving the game. Great for forum drama though.

Do I think ZOS needs to keep working on some aspects of the game? Oh yeah. It is far from perfect, and needs work to keep improving/fixing bugs/issues/balancing.

However if I had such a long list of complaints, disappointments, issues, and disgust at the greedy money grubbing devs, I'd have given up on the game by now, and found one that I actually enjoyed playing.

Ashtaris · June 2017

As an officer of a guild, all I can tell you is what I'm seeing in our guild roster, which is a significant drop in player activity. Now some of it can be attributed to summer activities, but I think most of it had to do with the sustain changes. Most of us had to make significant changes in our rotation and gear again. After awhile it just becomes too much work to have fun playing a game. At that point, people just move on to other games or don't play at all.

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

The current ZOS staff has fallen into a classic MMO dev trap. Hell, a exclusive dev trap period. They refuse to lisen to feedback. They have tossed aside, the cardinal rule of product making. The customer is allways right. And while I'm at it...

Iselin wrote: »

Why in the world would anyone love or even like one of the iconic ways that games use to balance and prevent constant spamming of the best ability you can use?

Limited resources, cool-downs, or even (back in the day) compulsory rest and camp between fights are not there to be liked. They're there to force you to make choices instead of spamming the AOE Storm of I Win Awesomeness over and over again.

Someone who thinks that those parts of balancing should be liked, especially these days when down-time between fights is so tiny compared to 10 or 20 years ago must be new to gaming.

This would be a great arguement if ESO was ever built with those limits in mind, and it was. Exept it had a functioning stop mechanic. It had soft caps. They gutted those. Which not only normalized stats but limited how much damage a player could actually do. The fact that they are going back on that shows one of two things.

Either A, ZOS didn't like how the original team had limited the playerbase.

Or B, they realize that the limit had a place, cant or wont acknowledge they were wrong to get rid of it, so will try this new hackneyed system without thought for the consequences, the thing that got them in this mess.

ZOS has no idea what their doing, but much like a incompitent monarch, they will never admit it. They'll allways make excuses. They'll allways blame someone else. A section of the playerbase for suggesting it. Not enough Q/A. They will never admit a mistake, and that means they will never create anything of lasting quality.

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

jircris11 wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain? So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun". PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

What do you think, will they admit the made a mistake and revert the sustain changes or are they so stubborn to admit they made a mistake and try to adjust the game over the sustain nerfs and fail miserably?

there is nothing wrong wit the changes they made. Most effected are people who where using FOTM builds that made them never have to worry about management. Now that its gone people have to actually manage their pools and have no clue how to do it properly. Personally I am having zero issue with it, it simply took some getting use to.

@jircris11

There are multiple problems with the changes they made.

- It deliberately slowed the game down, which people hate.

- People have to give up damage which a large portion of bossfights and mechanics are dependant on

- In addition this was directly after an update that made enemies beefier.

Just because you are in love with the changes does not mean everyone is. I've seen enough forum threads and enough despaired people in game leaving to know it's not exactly a positive ratio.

KerinKor · June 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

They would never admit any of their bright ideas were mistakes.

Darlgon wrote: »

Well. they DO admit to mistakes...

If THIS is a mistake.. I doubt it.

Where can I see them admitting to their mistakes?

Look back two years when they finally accepted the VR system was an abomination loathed by many (most?) and announced they were going to kill it.

jircris11 · June 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain? So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun". PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

What do you think, will they admit the made a mistake and revert the sustain changes or are they so stubborn to admit they made a mistake and try to adjust the game over the sustain nerfs and fail miserably?

there is nothing wrong wit the changes they made. Most effected are people who where using FOTM builds that made them never have to worry about management. Now that its gone people have to actually manage their pools and have no clue how to do it properly. Personally I am having zero issue with it, it simply took some getting use to.

@jircris11

There are multiple problems with the changes they made.

- It deliberately slowed the game down, which people hate.

- People have to give up damage which a large portion of bossfights and mechanics are dependant on

- In addition this was directly after an update that made enemies beefier.

Just because you are in love with the changes does not mean everyone is. I've seen enough forum threads and enough despaired people in game leaving to know it's not exactly a positive ratio.

People come and go like change in a bank. The ones who left got mad because they could not solo all things pve. Now they need to work together and you know, socialize. Something most mmo players do not do anymore. You can argue until you are blue in the face about how it made it slow or you lack dps. In the end they changed the game to make it "tougher" and make it so people can't solo everything.

ProfesseurFreder · June 2017

My only problem in battle, even with the changes on my Nightblade, is that I panic.

Really and for true, just as if it was Real Life. I panic and that makes me stop thinking and just start flailing away, hitting any attacks that still work and a lot that don't -- and it's a sure way to fail.

So it's my fault that I die more often now that I am less powerful... not the game's or the developer's. Wish that there was a "Calm Down" button so that I could think straight in a tight situation.

Just today I was in a losing fight with a quest boss in Wrothgar -- was wearing her down, but still it was going badly for me, and thank goodness a Kindly Warden stepped in and knifed her in the back for me. I was out of resources and I can't wrap my brain around the whole Quickslots thing when I'm barely hanging on as it is....

zergbase_ESO · June 2017

JKorr wrote: »

What difference does it make to you? The game is incredibly annoying to play without a sub according to you. You were leaving after ZOS "forced" you to buy a character slot to make a warden. ZOS is driving new player away because the quests aren't organized. Then you claimed you deleted the game back in April because of the "horrible direction the game was going, also the excessive obvious greed over actually making the game better."

If the game is such a pos that offends your every sensibility, all the changes/everything is nerfed to ruin the whole universe, and the devs/ZOS are greedy money grubbing sellouts, why are you still here complaining, instead of leaving to find a game you actually enjoy?

So this is that silly guy. Now we know he just loves to complain. Got to love those kinds of people. Makes their opinion less worth reading. Glad I skimmed name seemed like it too.

letsdothedungeonslow · June 2017

Any problems with players having to adapt to a lower-sustain environment pale, in my opinion, in comparison to the number of technical bugs that persist, even after last night's patch, and are just shocking, an embarrassment, and totally unacceptable.

It doesn't look to me like ZOS care about retaining their subs, as they now that there are enough degenerate gamblers to keep buying crown crates, and people that like aesthetics to buy houses.

I really hope this game gets better over the next year, but I have fears.

If Group Finder isn't fixed soon, a LOT of people are just going to have enough and clear off.

Teridaxus · June 2017

I'm still waiting that they admit cp were a mistake.
Good luck op.

LiquidPony · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain? So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun". PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

What do you think, will they admit the made a mistake and revert the sustain changes or are they so stubborn to admit they made a mistake and try to adjust the game over the sustain nerfs and fail miserably?

*Raises hand*

Here, you can see one person who thinks that the nerfs to sustain (along with other changes) helped balance the game.

PvE DPS rotations are barely any different. You have to heavy attack every once and a while. Big deal.

In the meantime, you've got stam toons and Nightblades running in Trials, which hasn't been the case since 2016. And you've got all sorts of previously unwanted sets being used in the end game (Netch's Touch, Silks of the Sun, Plague Doctor), and even crafted sets are just about on par with "BiS" dropped gear in a lot of cases.

I enjoyed Homestead-era combat more, but I think the overall game is in a better place now. Hopefully they'll continue tweaking it, but it's hard for me to look back at where we were a month ago and think "nah, we're definitely not OP" while cruising through Hard Mode Trials in 25 minutes.

Jusey1 · June 2017

Wait. They killed the sustain? What you mean by that?

RavenRoxie · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain? So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun". PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

What do you think, will they admit the made a mistake and revert the sustain changes or are they so stubborn to admit they made a mistake and try to adjust the game over the sustain nerfs and fail miserably?

My magicka/stamina depleting poisons thinks the change is hilarious.

NordJitsu · June 2017

No because it made the game better and the combat more fun. You're supposed to be deliberative in your movements during combat, not just mashing buttons in a preset order.

Mazbt · June 2017

Heavy attack weave when getting low, use different food/drink for more sustain, swap a jewellery enchant (if you are having issues). Not the end of the world.

Tornaad · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain? So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun". PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

What do you think, will they admit the made a mistake and revert the sustain changes or are they so stubborn to admit they made a mistake and try to adjust the game over the sustain nerfs and fail miserably?

Your statement assumes they made a mistake with the change.

Just because someone is not happy with what you did doesn't mean you made a mistake. It just means that they are not happy with you. And in all reality you can do something right and have people get mad at you.

Now I'm not saying they made the right call or supporting their decision. I am still on the fence about that one. However I can say that the first time I was able to solo a world boss came after the nerf that you claim they messed up, which gets me wondering did they really mess up?

Vapirko · June 2017

Im fine with the sustain changes, my Stam DK now rips single target damage in PvE as a heavy attack build and I never run out of stamina, and for pvp the changes have been nothing but good.

DjMuscleboy02 · June 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

Im fine with the sustain changes, my Stam DK now rips single target damage in PvE as a heavy attack build and I never run out of stamina, and for pvp the changes have been nothing but good.

Until things need to die from cleave damage

MCBIZZLE300 · June 2017

I really don't find it hard to sustain. I just changed a few skills, I didn't even change my build.

Kay1 · June 2017

While PvP feels good and balanced, PvE feels like your gear is broken.

They need to unnerf Med and Light but they won't because they don't want to admit they ruined PvE.

Sausage · June 2017

Corporate world very rarely forgives, they just kick your arse.