Sorc Tanking Advice

Benn G x · June 2017

So I currently have 6 characters, 5 are spec'd for PvP and I figured I'd make the last one a PvE Tank, so I have no intention of creating a DK to tank and I understand they're probably the best.

What makes them best? The resources returns when blocking? (Battle Roar, Helping Hands) The utility of chains/talons? Or the native passives like reduced damage while blocking, healing received and spell resistance, or a combination of all?

Sorc has some pros itself though, encase, reduce cost of magicka and stamina abilities, magicka regen, reduced ult cost, crit surge and dark deal.

My idea is to run
x2 Engine Guardian / Sentinal
x5 Ebon
x5 undecided here

Unsure on best traits, guessing sturdy? I'm relatively new to tanking so not sure if my idea would actually work, but I was thinking Engine/Sentinal would replenish some resources, along with being argonian for the huge resources from pots, and if I ever got into a sticky situation and needed Stam to keep block up, I could cast the SnB ult to auto block and dark deal up for a few seconds?

Like I said, relatively new to tanking so don't know if it's even viable, but I will try it.

Would probably run bars like this?
Bar1: Heroic Slash / Pierce Armor / Hurricane / Absorb Magick / Empowered Ward / Warhorn

Bar2: Encase / shuffle / dark deal / vigor / crit surge / SnB ult

I could switch for a ranged taunt when necessary, maybe even use aegis/armaments. Only chose empowered as I didn't know what else to put there, I figured 10% mag regen would help the group

@Woeler @Autolycus tagged you both cause I know you're great tanks, see what you thought

Liofa · June 2017

What makes DK tank best is what you said . Amazing tanky passives , being able to generate Stamina while blocking , chains/talons and such .

In most fights , you won't be needing to block . You just have to block certain attacks and that's all . Every fight in this game can be done without perma blocking . Except one . Axes . Apart from axes , you will have plenty of time to drop block and do whatever you want . This is the reason why sorcerer tanks are very strong in terms of sustain . Dark Deal gives you almost 5k Stamina for bit less than 3k Magicka . That is much more stronger than Igneous Shield . Problem is , you cannot do this while tanking axes . Only way to do it is , using 1h/s Ultimate . But this doesn't mean it is impossible to tank axes without the 1h/s ultimate . It will be harder compared to DK but you still can do it . There are lots of ways to get Stamina . Constitution , Spear , Master Resto , potions and such . As a Sorcerer , what you can do is , keep Boundless Storm and Critical Surge up , get Sentinel and watch it restore Stamina and heal you . It is not much but something that can keep you going . You can also try the Witchman Armor set . Every Warhorn you cast should give you bit more than 6k Stamina . This is all you need to know about self sustaining as a Sorcerer Tank .

For gear , you should change items depending on situation . I am talking about the traits mostly . Get a 8 Sturdy set for axes , get full Reinforced for Warrior and Rakkhat , get full Infused where max stats matter . Or you can just mix everything up but remember , going everywhere with a mix setup is not good . You can go 3 Infused , 1 Reinforced shield and 4 Sturdy armor for example but those 4 Sturdy items won't do any good while in a fight against certain bosses . Storm Atro in AA for example , nothing there to block . Reinforced doesn't do anything since damage from boss is a joke . Which leaves you with Infused or Divines . If you are using Atronach , you will have more Magicka to support group with Divines or more max stats to heal people better with Infused . For weapon traits , choose Infused . Infused is amazing . The uptime and value of Crusher will increase by a huge amount . Keep 1 defending of the same set for certain fights where you need personal defense and nothing else , like axes .

For item sets , I think Ebon is overall a standart tank set that everyone should have . For second set , it really depends on your group . If they need penetration , Alkosh (AOE) or Torug's (single target) will perform very good . If they need more Major Force uptime , Tava's will perform the same way . It depends on what they need . For the monster set , Blood Spawn can work nicely everywhere . Malubeth is good if there is heavy sustained damage incoming and you need more healing . Engine Guardian is also good for self-sustaining but it is kinda random . Sentinel is what you might want to use but definitely not everywhere . Because it can cause your teammates to die . For example , when Warrior does the Starfall attack , that spider also gets the attack and will kill your teammate who is unlucky enough to stand near it . So yeah , choose what you need best and go with it . There are also other choices like 2 pieces of 1 piece Max Health monster sets , like 1 Malubeth and 1 Skoria . You can also go with Shadowrend + Choketorn . Switch it up and decide what you like most . Just make sure it will be useful for the fight you are getting into .

For skills , Pierce Armor and Heroic Slash is necessary for any tank . You definitely want the Boundless Storm morph for the Major Resist buffs and for proccing Critical Surge , if you use it for heals . Of course , Dark Deal will be your main source of Stamina return . For pledges and certain trial fights , Restraining Prison is amazing . Absorb Magic is meh , useful only in certain fights like Rakkhat and axes . Range taunt should always be on your back bar . I don't think it is something you should even consider dropping . It always should be there . Rest of the skills you should choose what is necessary for the fight .

Sorcerer is definitely a nice tank class . It can have better sustain than DKs if played correctly . But let me tell you the risk of playing a Sorcerer tank . People will not take you because you are Sorcerer and not a DK . Even if you play very good . If you are ok with this , stick with your Sorcerer . Hope I could help , good luck !

Autolycus · June 2017

It looks like you're on the right track as far as skills and gear go, at least compared to how I might like to build anyway. The skill set you're using looks pretty good. I would trade Hurricane for Boundless Storm since it costs magicka (thus reducing the strain on your resources for blocking) and it lasts much longer. As a pure tank, the damage from Hurricane doesn't really matter.

Sorcs are very flexible tanks and can be played in different ways. I like to go mostly stam-focused for my Sorc tank. Dark Deal is all the healing / stam return you really need imo, as long as you have high enough magicka return to sustain all of the magicka skills in your kit along with it. Vigor is certainly helpful for your group in some cases, but I'd consider that a flex skill personally. My bars are really similar, I have Dark Deal on my front bar instead of Ward (which is totally fine to use in some settings where a shield might be warranted) and instead of Vigor on my back bar, I use Inner Fire. Everything else is pretty much the same. Also there's nothing wrong with using Empowered Ward to give the magicka regen to your group, that's pretty handy sometimes, but (assuming) in a predominantly stam-oriented setup, that shield isn't very strong.

For dungeons you may want to use Swarm Mother, and it works really well with Encase. In trials, you don't need it at all and I would switch to something like 1pc Shadowrend + 1pc Chokethorn for the nice chunk of magicka recovery. You could go with Sentinel or Blood Spawn if you want, though I think those are both pretty situational, at least worth having on-hand. Sentinel is useful in stagnant fights, like the Stone Atro in vAA.

As far as gear goes, you can't really go wrong with Ebon. Health scaling isn't important for a Sorc tank really, so as long as you have enough health to survive the heavy-hitters in each respective trial, you'll benefit more by dumping the "extra" points into stamina or magicka. In the case of Ward, this would be magicka. Beyond that, I would say that for the easier trials you want gear that boosts your group's damage/survivability (Torug's Pact with Crusher, Alkosh, Dragon for ults, etc) and for the harder trials survivability is more important, in which case having really high magicka, recovery, and strong shields can make a big difference, especially when mechanics force the group to separate.

One final note, whenever Crit Surge procs, it's considered a spell crit. This means points into Elfborn boost those heals, however (based on my own results, let me know if I missed something) it will crit based on whichever crit% is higher. The scaling of those crits still comes from Elfborn afaik.

Benn G x · June 2017

Thanks both for the informative replies, I guess boundless storm would be better than hurricane because it's magicka and has a longer duration, I only thought hurricane cause it has the range, but as a tank I guess that doesn't actually matter as I should be there anyway.

I'm thinking dragon guard would be a decent second set for the further ult reduction and magicka recovery. Is Atro mundus best for tanks? Werewolf hide also crossed my mind.

I'm still unsure if bound aegis/armaments would be worth using at all, 8% to a max stat and the minor resistance buffs, shame it needs to be doubled barred.

Also already have swarm mother with the intention of using that for dungeons, I was told it's broken and pulls titans

don't know if that's true haven't tested. Not worried about people turning me down cause I'm a sorc tank cause I run with a guild.

How much max health should I aim for? Or isit simply what I'm comfortable with? Thanks again for the help both

EDIT: I remember reading that you'll want max Stam higher than magicka because shards/orbs? and 2 or 3 block cost glyphs?

Autolycus · June 2017

The range on Hurricane is inconsequential, the damage ticks don't really matter. Boundless and Hurricane can both be used for "soft taunting" (i.e. grabbing initial aggro long enough to do real taunting), but the former also gives Major Expedition too, something I really like having for more speedy pulling.

Dragon, Werewolf Hide, and Tava's are all good for ulti-regen setups. Tava's takes the cake here in most situations and can be proc'd at will by dodge-rolling through or out of AoEs, though I haven't gone to great lengths to test everything that does proc it, I have yet to see something that doesn't. Since Tava's is crafted, that may be one constraint you want to consider, depending on your other sets. Tava's + Ebon, for example, is very easy to put together, but if you want to use Torug's, it's a different story.

Aegis/Armaments is a great skill, but it doesn't have a lot of practical use for a tank considering its need for a spot on both bars. It'll contribute to having higher shields perhaps, but it's not really a cream-of-the-crop tanking skill. Resistances are not difficult to get without it. There might be some situations in which you'll prefer having it, so we'll call it a flex skill for your choosing.

Swarm Mother works on a LOT of things that chains does not. Crematorial Guards, Titans, Haj Motas, Harvesters, to name a few.

Having ~30k health for most trials is sufficient. In vHoF it's good to have more. I'm not necessarily saying you have to have a lot of health in HoF, but there are many hard-hitting attacks from bosses/mobs in there and a lot of times they come simultaneously with other attacks, so having that health cushion is at the very least good for learning/progressing. Most tanks I know of currently in HoF, whether or not they are running "health sets" like Plague Doc, still have somewhere in the 45-50k range before War Horn, or more.

Also, Atronach mundus is what I use, I think that's a pretty safe bet, and many tanks use it. For a Sorc tank specifically I think the case is stronger, perhaps that just my opinion, but since Dark Deal is so good, having a high magicka recovery basically amounts to having a bottomless supply of stamina too. So in this case, whether your max magicka or stamina is higher is really up to you. If your magicka is higher and you use an orb/shard synergy, you can always just convert that to stamina via Dark Deal. In this case, I'd suggest that you toy around with it and just figure out what you like better. Certain mechanics/attacks may limit how often you can drop block to cast Dark Deal, but I've found that simply knowing attack patterns gives way to liberal use of Dark Deal as you see fit.

Sordidfairytale · June 2017

I too use Swarm on my Sorc Tank and love it. I currently use TBS with Stam and Magicka boost, though I'm considering changing those to regen with this patch. I'm also considering a race change from Altmer to Argonian (this used to be a pure damage sorc).

Benn G x · June 2017

Seems to sustain fine In trials, I find Engine Guardian doesn't proc that often though, I'm yet to try sentinel as I need a shoulder piece, I think it will be more reliable using echoing vigor to proc it.

Tasear · June 2017

Why not thundebugs or one of three shock based tank sets. Maybe stormfist monster set.

I heard a few people doing sorc tank just focus on regain. This one person said they had 3k regain. So perma blocking is a thing, but done maybe differently.

I seen some amazing and flashy sorc tanks. They in my opinion hold arrgo better then a lot of dks I seen, but there's so few so who knows.

Either way seems like a lot of fun, so best of luck and fair journey.

Diggitydug · June 2017

Are sorc tanks mainly Stam based with S&B it magica bases with frost?

Benn G x · June 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Why not thundebugs or one of three shock based tank sets. Maybe stormfist monster set.

I heard a few people doing sorc tank just focus on regain. This one person said they had 3k regain. So perma blocking is a thing, but done maybe differently.

I seen some amazing and flashy sorc tanks. They in my opinion hold arrgo better then a lot of dks I seen, but there's so few so who knows.

Either way seems like a lot of fun, so best of luck and fair journey.

I think thunderbug to be more of a PvP set, would be pretty fun to combine it with Storm knight though.

I have about 1.3k mag regen and do fine, the SnB ult is important to the build though, cast that and you auto block for 5 seconds, that's like 4 dark deals and back up to full stam.

Benn G x · June 2017

Diggitydug wrote: »

Are sorc tanks mainly Stam based with S&B it magica bases with frost?

I'm S&B, frost is crap imo. You need the 5/5/2 S&B allows, heavy attacking to taunt is awful too, I mean some people may like it and can make it work, but it's no comparison in which is better for me.